Will Giannis ever overtake Karl Malone/Tim Duncan as the greatest PF of all-time?

[OxAndFox]

Think Giannis is past Malone. If he can win two more rings and an MVP he gets past TD too.

[dhsilv2]

I still hate when people call TIm Duncan PF, because he was obviously center in every way beside what he was listed on paper, but whatever, I never gonna win this debate, so will just say it NO, he will not be better than Duncan.

played with centers most of his career. robinson, malik rose, nestorovic, dejuan blair, oberto, tiago splitter. are all these guys pf?

Rose and Blair and to be fair Splitter would make more sense listed as a power forward than center. But the reality is you can have 2 centers on the floor together. That's what that whole "twin tower" talk was. The spurs were running a two center system with Robinson and Duncan. And for what it's worth...Duncan was the more natural center than Robinson.

[LascelleL]

People underestimate the power a Strong Narrative has over the Basketball (and sports) world as a whole. Timing plays a big part in perception and the timing of Duncan's prime coincides where being a big with a jump shot and agility was enough to classify you as a PF because big ass bruisers were the common thing from the 60s to the 2000s.

Duncan is a PF. Duncan was marketed as a PF, Duncan playing alongside David Robinson and winning two chips as a bonafide 4 solidified that. His next two rings come in that same era. He has one in the modern era where its positionless basketball and that's not going to erase what he did in our collective consciousness as a PF.

[dhsilv2]

I still hate when people call TIm Duncan PF, because he was obviously center in every way beside what he was listed on paper, but whatever, I never gonna win this debate, so will just say it NO, he will not be better than Duncan.

He was a PF in his prime years. Unless you think DRob was a PF.

If one was a PF, it was Robinson, but clearly the spurs ran a 2 center system. They even had a name for it. Twin Towers

[dhsilv2]

People underestimate the power a Strong Narrative has over the Basketball (and sports) world as a whole. Timing plays a big part in perception and the timing of Duncan's prime coincides where being a big with a jump shot and agility was enough to classify you as a PF because big ass bruisers were the common thing from the 60s to the 2000s.

Duncan is a PF. Duncan was marketed as a PF, Duncan playing alongside David Robinson and winning two chips as a bonafide 4 solidified that. His next two rings come in that same era. He has one in the modern era where its positionless basketball and that's not going to erase what he did in our collective consciousness as a PF.

Duncan came into the league as the most highly touted college center since Walton or Kareem. You could make a case for shaq. He was paired with a "center" who's game was best facing the basket vs going into the post. So the spurs instantly built their offense in his rookie year around getting him post touches over Robinson because he was a more natural center than Robinson. The success of two big men lead the spurs to continue to pair Duncan with bigs until the league just ran out of them.

In real time we all knew Duncan was a center. We coined twin towers because the Spurs were going to play two centers just like the rockets before. Duncan was a more natural center than Hakeem, Robinson, and to a degree Ewing.

[G35]

I still hate when people call TIm Duncan PF, because he was obviously center in every way beside what he was listed on paper, but whatever, I never gonna win this debate, so will just say it NO, he will not be better than Duncan.

Do you hate Magic Johnson being listed as a PG when obviously he was a PF...do you hate Allen Iverson being listed as a SG when he obviously was a PG...do you hate Jerry West being listed as a PG when he was a SG...do you hate Lebron James being called a SF when he was obviously a PG...do you hate KG being a PF when he obviously was a C.


Basketball has positions but many players can flow from one position to another. Same thing in football...Shannon Sharpe was labeled a TE but he was really a big WR...offensive lineman change positions all the time to fil in when someone gets injured.

Duncan was listed as a PF for a long time. The Spurs had David Robinson, he was the Spurs center and a HoF one at that...that means Duncan had to play PF...does that mean he got a handicap because he had to play out of position? He had to play further away from the basket. People get upset because it doesn't lineup with how they want to argue debates.....

[Mirotic12]

The argument that Tim Duncan was a power forward, because next to him "David Robinson played center", does not really hold up to scrutiny. Because in that "Twin Towers" duo, if anything, Robinson was more the one playing the power forward role. Robinson would often be shooting mid range jumpers, and facing up to the basket, while the ball was being dumped into the post to Duncan. And also of course, for the obvious reason that "Twin Towers" refers to a starting lineup that features two centers, instead of one power forward and one center. So even the name of the starting lineup meant Duncan was a center.

And the argument that Duncan was a power forward because he had a bank shot mid-range jumper also does not really hold up to scrutiny. Just because Duncan had a mid range jumper that he banked off the glass, does not make him a power forward. In fact, plenty of centers over the years, have been 3 point shooters, and yet they were still centers and not power forwards. Arvydas Sabonis, Nikola Jokic, Vlade Divac, etc. were all centers and not power forwards, and they all had more shooting range (by a lot) on their jumpers than Duncan did. None of them were classed as power forwards just because of that.

[Mirotic12]

Karl Malone is arguably the most underrated superstar in nba history. The 2nd or 3rd best player in the 90s depending who you rate higher Malone or hakeem. Easily the best player to never win a ring. Ive seen him even rated by some below guys like kg dirk and charles at pf..ppl can hate the guy for what he did outside of basketball but he was an outstanding basketball player.

Wait what? There are actually NBA fans that think Malone was better than Hakeem? I mean, you're joking right?

It isn't outrageous to think so. You could probably make a case that Malone was better outside of 1993-1995. Granted, I have Hakeem ranked higher, but it isn't crazy to think Malone was better in the 90s.

It should be seen as such to anyone that saw them both play.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

if brook lopez decides he wants to be called the pf because of his shooting acumen this thread could get really really confusing

[dhsilv2]

I still hate when people call TIm Duncan PF, because he was obviously center in every way beside what he was listed on paper, but whatever, I never gonna win this debate, so will just say it NO, he will not be better than Duncan.

Do you hate Magic Johnson being listed as a PG when obviously he was a PF...do you hate Allen Iverson being listed as a SG when he obviously was a PG...do you hate Jerry West being listed as a PG when he was a SG...do you hate Lebron James being called a SF when he was obviously a PG...do you hate KG being a PF when he obviously was a C.


Basketball has positions but many players can flow from one position to another. Same thing in football...Shannon Sharpe was labeled a TE but he was really a big WR...offensive lineman change positions all the time to fil in when someone gets injured.

Duncan was listed as a PF for a long time. The Spurs had David Robinson, he was the Spurs center and a HoF one at that...that means Duncan had to play PF...does that mean he got a handicap because he had to play out of position? He had to play further away from the basket. People get upset because it doesn't lineup with how they want to argue debates.....

But he didn't. Robinson played further from the basket, until the last year or two where he basically couldn't do much of anything. It's one thing where a guy like Bird, who is obviously a power forward type, slots over to play the wing because McHale was really a PF/C and Chief was nothing but a center. So Bird actually did play "out of position". Mind you with his shot he was fine out there, he was a star after all.

People get upset over this because it's just intellectually dishonest, and most of us remember how big a joke it was at the time. It was just one more of the Spurs head games they played on the league. Yet somehow 20 years later people are now acting like we didn't all know he was a center. We did.

[dhsilv2]

The argument that Tim Duncan was a power forward, because next to him "David Robinson played center", does not really hold up to scrutiny. Because in that "Twin Towers" duo, if anything, Robinson was more the one playing the power forward role. Robinson would often be shooting mid range jumpers, and facing up to the basket, while the ball was being dumped into the post to Duncan. And also of course, for the obvious reason that "Twin Towers" refers to a starting lineup that features two centers, instead of one power forward and one center. So even the name of the starting lineup meant Duncan was a center.

And the argument that Duncan was a power forward because he had a bank shot mid-range jumper also does not really hold up to scrutiny. Just because Duncan had a mid range jumper that he banked off the glass, does not make him a power forward. In fact, plenty of centers over the years, have been 3 point shooters, and yet they were still centers and not power forwards. Arvydas Sabonis, Nikola Jokic, Vlade Divac, etc. were all centers and not power forwards, and they all had more shooting range (by a lot) on their jumpers than Duncan did. None of them were classed as power forwards just because of that.

Don't for get Sikma, Ewing, and Hakeem's range was about the same as Duncan's.

[Blame Rasho]

Just like when KG said he was 6’11 when he was legit 7 footer… because he didn’t want to be stigmatized as a 7 footer right? It is all head games. Jeez it is so funny seeing your absurd posts

[Packbuckman]

Tim Duncan is a (weak)GOAT candidate. Karl Malone is not.

I think Giannis has already passed Malone, but I don't think the guy is a candidate(even a fringe candidate) for greatest ever.

But Giannis has already won MVP, Finals MVP, DPOY, and there has never been a player like him - there has never been a player this big with this level of speed, quickness and acceleration. Plus the roster Giannis led to the championship was probably weaker than any we've seen in recent decades....

If you put Tim Duncan into that Milwaukee team, would they have won the championship? Plus Duncan is too similar to past greats, while Giannis is one-of-a-kind. I know Duncan was a better shooter (except from the free-throw-line) but Giannis may be better than Duncan offensively and defensively.

And if you put Giannis in those old Spurs teams, I think he'd have won more rings than Duncan.

You put Duncan on those Bucks teams and they probably have 3 rings by now because Duncan does not have Giannis’s shortcomings offensively. Plus although Giannis’s athleticism allows him to do more on defense(guard more positions) than Duncan he for sure isnt as smart a defender as Duncan or a few other all time elite defenders.

And yes Duncan had better rosters in retrospect but like Shaq and many others have said about the Spurs system: Duncan IS the system and its no guarantee that Parker and a few others look as good as they do playing w/o Duncan. Also people are acting like Lopez and Holiday are like Mo Willams or Chris Mihm. Now you may be right that Giannis could have more rings than Duncan if he played on the Spurs but that’s cause Pop would’ve made him correct his offensive flaws and his development would be much further along. Whereas Duncan was a ready made prospect from the jump(made 1st team all nba as a rookie)

As great as Duncan was I actually think he was held back statistically for the benefit of the team. I think he easily could have put up higher numbers if he wanted to.

That is not a true analysis it was Giannis teammates bricking shots and Buds system jacking up all those 3’s plus injuries is why they don’t have more than one title putting Duncan in Giannis place ain’t changing that. Duncan was great I seen him play Robinson was great to those spurs teams were loaded plus they had pop as a coach who is 10 times the coach Bud is! Griffin might not have experience as Bud but I am excited for this season with him coaching this team.

[BostonCouchGM]

I still hate when people call TIm Duncan PF, because he was obviously center in every way beside what he was listed on paper, but whatever, I never gonna win this debate, so will just say it NO, he will not be better than Duncan.

Do you hate Magic Johnson being listed as a PG when obviously he was a PF...do you hate Allen Iverson being listed as a SG when he obviously was a PG...do you hate Jerry West being listed as a PG when he was a SG...do you hate Lebron James being called a SF when he was obviously a PG...do you hate KG being a PF when he obviously was a C.


Basketball has positions but many players can flow from one position to another. Same thing in football...Shannon Sharpe was labeled a TE but he was really a big WR...offensive lineman change positions all the time to fil in when someone gets injured.

Duncan was listed as a PF for a long time. The Spurs had David Robinson, he was the Spurs center and a HoF one at that...that means Duncan had to play PF...does that mean he got a handicap because he had to play out of position? He had to play further away from the basket. People get upset because it doesn't lineup with how they want to argue debates.....

But he didn't. Robinson played further from the basket, until the last year or two where he basically couldn't do much of anything. It's one thing where a guy like Bird, who is obviously a power forward type, slots over to play the wing because McHale was really a PF/C and Chief was nothing but a center. So Bird actually did play "out of position". Mind you with his shot he was fine out there, he was a star after all.

People get upset over this because it's just intellectually dishonest, and most of us remember how big a joke it was at the time. It was just one more of the Spurs head games they played on the league. Yet somehow 20 years later people are now acting like we didn't all know he was a center. We did.

except Bird didn't play out of position because he was a playmaking small forward who could shoot from outside and defend the perimeter. Bird is quite literally the poster child for SF and the best the game has ever seen. I think casuals get confused because they see his rebound numbers and his ability to bang down low as proof he was a PF but that was just because he's one of the GOATS and could do it all not because PF was his natural position.

[KGtabake]

Duncan no. Giannis won't win 5 rings.
Neither he will have 15 all NBA and 15 all defence teams.
But he's already the 2nd best power forward of all time in my books. He has accomplished everything there is to accomplish in the NBA.
Ever since the '21 championship he's only adding accolades which he will continue to do for the remaining years of his career.
So easily 2nd best. Duncan is untouchable imo

[dhsilv2]

Do you hate Magic Johnson being listed as a PG when obviously he was a PF...do you hate Allen Iverson being listed as a SG when he obviously was a PG...do you hate Jerry West being listed as a PG when he was a SG...do you hate Lebron James being called a SF when he was obviously a PG...do you hate KG being a PF when he obviously was a C.


Basketball has positions but many players can flow from one position to another. Same thing in football...Shannon Sharpe was labeled a TE but he was really a big WR...offensive lineman change positions all the time to fil in when someone gets injured.

Duncan was listed as a PF for a long time. The Spurs had David Robinson, he was the Spurs center and a HoF one at that...that means Duncan had to play PF...does that mean he got a handicap because he had to play out of position? He had to play further away from the basket. People get upset because it doesn't lineup with how they want to argue debates.....

But he didn't. Robinson played further from the basket, until the last year or two where he basically couldn't do much of anything. It's one thing where a guy like Bird, who is obviously a power forward type, slots over to play the wing because McHale was really a PF/C and Chief was nothing but a center. So Bird actually did play "out of position". Mind you with his shot he was fine out there, he was a star after all.

People get upset over this because it's just intellectually dishonest, and most of us remember how big a joke it was at the time. It was just one more of the Spurs head games they played on the league. Yet somehow 20 years later people are now acting like we didn't all know he was a center. We did.

except Bird didn't play out of position because he was a playmaking small forward who could shoot from outside and defend the perimeter. Bird is quite literally the poster child for SF and the best the game has ever seen. I think casuals get confused because they see his rebound numbers and his ability to bang down low as proof he was a PF but that was just because he's one of the GOATS and could do it all not because PF was his natural position.

Bird was so poor defending small forwards they moved McHale over because he had better footwork on small guys. Bird defines the 4 with the added range of a shooting guard. Bird was a much better play maker closer to the basket than away.

[Meeksology]

I still hate when people call TIm Duncan PF, because he was obviously center in every way beside what he was listed on paper, but whatever, I never gonna win this debate, so will just say it NO, he will not be better than Duncan.

I mean, are we about to disregard all his all nba and all star starter appearances he wouldn’t have even sniffed if he was considered a center? His accolades would be drastically different at center behind shaq.

I know he was listed as PF, I am just saying he wasnt really, he was a center who was listed PF on paper, thats why its the problem for me. Like a lot of people still list DOncic ads forward, hes not, hes a point guard, hes just big, it doesnt make him a forward because he is smart enough to bully opponents if you put 6'1 guy on him, Jason Kidd did the same. Doncic plays point guard 100% of the time, I dont care if some sites say hes a forward, just like they say Duncan was a forward. But I know I am a contrarian here, but man, he was a damn cneter, they just really wnated to call him GOAT at something, and as a C, that wouldnt be that easy to do.

Just curious, in ur all time position rankings, would u place Lebron at PG, SF or PF?