Tank World Order (10.0) The Empire Strikes Back

[Duffman100]

Unless it’s a Canadian (Shai), the free agency route will never work here. It’ll either have to happen through the draft or get lucky with a trade again

So either get lucky in the draft or lucky in a trade. Let's be clear that luck plays a large factor in both situations.

You also have to put yourself in a situation to get lucky though.

The way we’re going about it is objectively not a good way to build a championship team even if you believe in rebuilding from the middle.

Maybe. But people were also in here saying the exact same things in the Lowry/Derzoan era.

[WaltFrazier]

Tanking doesn't guarantee a superstar? So it’s not a good strategy? You don't have a superstar on the roster now? Therefore by this logic, the current strategy isn't good also. And therein lies the crux of this argument, there isn't one.

People who doubt tanking seem to just ignore the times that it actually works. Look at OKC, San Antonio, New Orleans, Memphis, even Indiana

All teams with a brighter future than us right now

Not sure about New Orleans. Wiretap article today saying team president frustrated by lack of progress, Ingram missed too many games, not even mentioned Zion. They're not on some glorious rise right now.

Although, maybe still a brighter future than us. Never mind

[Bruin]

Tanking doesn't guarantee a superstar? So it’s not a good strategy? You don't have a superstar on the roster now? Therefore by this logic, the current strategy isn't good also. And therein lies the crux of this argument, there isn't one.

People who doubt tanking seem to just ignore the times that it actually works. Look at OKC, San Antonio, New Orleans, Memphis, even Indiana

All teams with a brighter future than us right now

Not sure about New Orleans. Wiretap article today saying team president frustrated by lack of progress, Ingram missed too many games, not even mentioned Zion. They're not on some glorious rise right now.

Although, maybe still a brighter future than us. Never mind

Even if we ignore Zion and Ingram, they still have Herb, Murphy, Dyson. That young core is very intriguing

[TorontoBarneys]

So either get lucky in the draft or lucky in a trade. Let's be clear that luck plays a large factor in both situations.

You also have to put yourself in a situation to get lucky though.

The way we’re going about it is objectively not a good way to build a championship team even if you believe in rebuilding from the middle.

Maybe. But people were also in here saying the exact same things in the Lowry/Derzoan era.

Really don't think people should use the Kawhi trade as any kind of template for the future. That was really a lightning-in-a-bottle scenario.

[HumbleRen]

So either get lucky in the draft or lucky in a trade. Let's be clear that luck plays a large factor in both situations.

You also have to put yourself in a situation to get lucky though.

The way we’re going about it is objectively not a good way to build a championship team even if you believe in rebuilding from the middle.

Maybe. But people were also in here saying the exact same things in the Lowry/Derzoan era.

Maybe. But those teams were clearing 50 wins every season and nailed almost everything on the margins to put us in a situation where we were lucky enough to get a disgruntled superstar and starting caliber player in Danny Green.

This team ? Not so much lol. Especially with Siakam and OG’s contract hanging a dark cloud over us.

[Duffman100]

You also have to put yourself in a situation to get lucky though.

The way we’re going about it is objectively not a good way to build a championship team even if you believe in rebuilding from the middle.

Maybe. But people were also in here saying the exact same things in the Lowry/Derzoan era.

Really don't think people should use the Kawhi trade as any kind of template for the future. That was really a lightning-in-a-bottle scenario.

But we should use the template of tanking and drafting a superstar, having that superstar stick around while the team is bad and then eventually win the title. That's also a lightning in a bottle scenario as it hasn't worked very often at all.

[tripa]

The Siakam/OG situation will work itself out. Either they’ll be extended or shipped out for young talent.

[DonDoolie]

You also have to put yourself in a situation to get lucky though.

The way we’re going about it is objectively not a good way to build a championship team even if you believe in rebuilding from the middle.

Maybe. But people were also in here saying the exact same things in the Lowry/Derzoan era.

Really don't think people should use the Kawhi trade as any kind of template for the future. That was really a lightning-in-a-bottle scenario.

exactly. that was Pop being as petty as possible. "oh you want to go to LA with hot weather and family? here let me send you to another country"

[Duffman100]

You also have to put yourself in a situation to get lucky though.

The way we’re going about it is objectively not a good way to build a championship team even if you believe in rebuilding from the middle.

Maybe. But people were also in here saying the exact same things in the Lowry/Derzoan era.

Maybe. But those teams were clearing 50 wins every season and nailed almost everything on the margins to put us in a situation where we were lucky enough to get a disgruntled superstar and starting caliber player in Danny Green.

This team ? Not so much lol. Especially with Siakam and OG’s contract hanging a dark cloud over us.

But the complaints were the same and of the same voracity. So it's hard to actually take faith.

[HumbleRen]

Maybe. But people were also in here saying the exact same things in the Lowry/Derzoan era.

Really don't think people should use the Kawhi trade as any kind of template for the future. That was really a lightning-in-a-bottle scenario.

But we should use the template of tanking and drafting a superstar, having that superstar stick around while the team is bad and then eventually win the title. That's also a lightning in a bottle scenario as it hasn't worked very often at all.

Not everyone has the same vision for what a rebuild means.

For me, it’s about acquiring talent period and restocking the coffers. Drafting a superstar would be amazing but it’s not the end all be all.

We don’t know if Paolo/Magic or even SGA/OKC can be a #1 option but every GM in the league would take their futures over ours in a heart beat.

The FO have tried to do it your way over the last 4 years and have failed in my opinion. Now we’re in a compromised situation where OG or Siakam can realistically leave us for nothing.

[HumbleRen]

Maybe. But people were also in here saying the exact same things in the Lowry/Derzoan era.

Maybe. But those teams were clearing 50 wins every season and nailed almost everything on the margins to put us in a situation where we were lucky enough to get a disgruntled superstar and starting caliber player in Danny Green.

This team ? Not so much lol. Especially with Siakam and OG’s contract hanging a dark cloud over us.

But the complaints were the same and of the same voracity. So it's hard to actually take faith.

But they still won 50 + games every year and developed prospects.

You can’t in good faith compare that situation to ours lol.

[720]

[HumbleRen]

Him or Boozer, who you got

[Duffman100]

:)

Maybe. But those teams were clearing 50 wins every season and nailed almost everything on the margins to put us in a situation where we were lucky enough to get a disgruntled superstar and starting caliber player in Danny Green.

This team ? Not so much lol. Especially with Siakam and OG’s contract hanging a dark cloud over us.

But the complaints were the same and of the same voracity. So it's hard to actually take faith.

But they still won 50 + games every year and developed prospects.

You can’t in good faith compare that situation to ours lol.

I'm not comparing the current situations. I'm comparing the reactions of people to the situations which was similar.

So it's possible we aren't accurately seeing the plan being laid out, when last time their plan led us to a championship.

[DelAbbot]

We getting the gang back for another year? - even without a first round pick?

[720]

Him or Boozer, who you got

Damn that’s a tough one, I think atm I’m leaning towards Cooper. I think right out the game Boozer’s game will translate much better in the NBA. He has the frame, his offense is a little bit more potent. But long term if Flagg keeps growing and getting better I think he could have more of an impact. Love his size, how lanky he is, how he can contest and score using both. He has good speed for his size, impacts the game on both ends multiple ways.

It’s gonna be interesting to watch them in their last year of high school and then college.

[YogurtProducer]

You also have to put yourself in a situation to get lucky though.

The way we’re going about it is objectively not a good way to build a championship team even if you believe in rebuilding from the middle.

Maybe. But people were also in here saying the exact same things in the Lowry/Derzoan era.

Really don't think people should use the Kawhi trade as any kind of template for the future. That was really a lightning-in-a-bottle scenario.

Not really. We could have done the exact same trade for a star at any point one came available. The only lightning in a bottle part about it was we did not have to give up 4 first round picks, but nothing was stopping us from doing that.

In another universe we trade four firsts and four swaps and salary filler for our star (such as Miles, Powell, etc.) and then trade Demar for other stuff (and still do the JV / Gasol swap).

It really was not lightning in a bottle at all.

[HumbleRen]

Maybe. But people were also in here saying the exact same things in the Lowry/Derzoan era.

Really don't think people should use the Kawhi trade as any kind of template for the future. That was really a lightning-in-a-bottle scenario.

Not really. We could have done the exact same trade for a star at any point one came available. The only lightning in a bottle part about it was we did not have to give up 4 first round picks, but nothing was stopping us from doing that.

In another universe we trade four firsts and four swaps and salary filler for our star (such as Miles, Powell, etc.) and then trade Demar for other stuff (and still do the JV / Gasol swap).

It really was not lightning in a bottle at all.

[HumbleRen]

Him or Boozer, who you got

Damn that’s a tough one, I think atm I’m leaning towards Cooper. I think right out the game Boozer’s game will translate much better in the NBA. He has the frame, his offense is a little bit more potent. But long term if Flagg keeps growing and getting better I think he could have more of an impact. Love his size, how lanky he is, how he can contest and score using both. He has good speed for his size, impacts the game on both ends multiple ways.

It’s gonna be interesting to watch them in their last year of high school and then college.

Leaning more towards Boozer but both are pretty incredible. They're apart of the 2026 draft ?

[YogurtProducer]

Really don't think people should use the Kawhi trade as any kind of template for the future. That was really a lightning-in-a-bottle scenario.

Not really. We could have done the exact same trade for a star at any point one came available. The only lightning in a bottle part about it was we did not have to give up 4 first round picks, but nothing was stopping us from doing that.

In another universe we trade four firsts and four swaps and salary filler for our star (such as Miles, Powell, etc.) and then trade Demar for other stuff (and still do the JV / Gasol swap).

It really was not lightning in a bottle at all.

If we don't do the trade at that very moment we chug along as a 55 win team until a superstar became available (AD, Harden, Durant, Butler, Geroge, Kawhi, etc. have all changed teams in the 12-24 months following the Kawhi deal). We were flush with a ton of assets at the time and legitimately 7-9 guys on the roster who were starting material (Lowry, FVV, Powell, Demar, OG, Siakam, Ibaka, JV, Poeltl).