Tune In: The Nick Smith Jr Thread

wilson115 · Post #61 » by **wilson115** » Sat Jul 8, 2023 11:07 pm

Not gonna be as harsh as a lot of people. Rough shooting night but the tools and desire are there.

Post #62 » by **yosemiteben** » Sun Jul 9, 2023 4:59 pm

Post #63 » by **JDR720** » Sun Jul 9, 2023 9:57 pm

Everything I've read about Smith say he is/was a top prospect. Hopefully his SL form is just a result of it being a terrible SL team.

https://www.si.com/nba/draft/prospect-profiles/nba-draft-scouting-report-arkansas-nick-smith-jr#gid=ci02a89d30000025f2&pid=usatsi_19600223

Post #64 » by **yosemiteben** » Sun Jul 9, 2023 9:57 pm

This was his best game

Post #65 » by **fatlever** » Sun Jul 9, 2023 11:09 pm

I don't know what he is, but I do know he's not a point guard and will never be a point guard. At least now we know. Was this experiment worth wrecking the flow of the entire team? Definitely not.

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KingCat · Post #66 » by **KingCat** » Mon Jul 10, 2023 12:37 am

JDR720 wrote:Everything I've read about Smith say he is/was a top prospect. Hopefully his SL form is just a result of it being a terrible SL team.

https://www.si.com/nba/draft/prospect-profiles/nba-draft-scouting-report-arkansas-nick-smith-jr#gid=ci02a89d30000025f2&pid=usatsi_19600223

Agree. He appears to be a very low IQ guard, but one summerleague run is no place to give a youngster final judgement. Hoping he balls out for Greensboro this year.

Post #67 » by **Diop** » Mon Jul 10, 2023 1:46 am

as much as I suggested we should have drafted someone else in the summer league thread, i am absolutely happy to wait and see for Jr. its his first summer league and he's chucking, but he's already shown more endeavour than Bouknight, hopefully he figures it out.

Even Kemba looked crap at first, he was super quick but kept missing the shots he created.

vorbis · Post #68 » by **vorbis** » Mon Jul 10, 2023 12:20 pm

I'm not worried about his play in summer league, to be honest.

it's normal for rookies to have uneven performances in this setting. plus the coaching situation is a complete mess, so he's not really accessing the higher levels of his talents right now. just kind of winging it like all the other guards, because there's no rhyme, reason, or organization to offensive sets.

I like him, overall. his stepback will take him places in the league, imo. as he gets used to the speed and pace of the NBA game, I think lots of buckets are going to come for him.

JMAC3 · Post #69 » by **JMAC3** » Mon Jul 10, 2023 2:17 pm

Smith has been fine.

Podziemsky shot 3/16 yesterday
Bufkin shot 6/19

Smith went after both of these guys by a good bit.

Post #70 » by **fatlever** » Mon Jul 10, 2023 2:24 pm

Smith has been anything but fine. I'm not sure why you would say that. It's more than stats. It's a style of play, it's what this team needs, versus what he brings. It's the team forcing him to play out of position. But even if he was playing shooting guard it's just redundant to all of the other low IQ Gunners on the team that have tunnel vision.

Let's be clear, Mitch took a player that was probably the highest rated player on his board when that pick came around, without any thoughts or ideas as to how the player would be incorporated to the current team.

We had five picks in this draft and we worked out over 110 players, and drafted exactly one out of those 110 which was miller.

Nick Smith in a vacuum for some teams may be fine. But for this team which was already loaded with this type of player, of which I can't understand why we keep drafting or signing, it just made no sense. I'm sure here were a lot of other directions they could have gone with this pick that I think would have made more impact short-term and long-term.

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Post #71 » by **fatlever** » Mon Jul 10, 2023 2:26 pm

But happy to have him replace Bouk on the Swarm or Bryce at the end of the bench.

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JMAC3 · Post #72 » by **JMAC3** » Mon Jul 10, 2023 3:05 pm

fatlever wrote:Smith has been anything but fine. I'm not sure why you would say that. It's more than stats. It's a style of play, it's what this team needs, versus what he brings. It's the team forcing him to play out of position. But even if he was playing shooting guard it's just redundant to all of the other low IQ Gunners on the team that have tunnel vision.

Let's be clear, Mitch took a player that was probably the highest rated player on his board when that pick came around, without any thoughts or ideas as to how the player would be incorporated to the current team.

We had five picks in this draft and we worked out over 110 players, and drafted exactly one out of those 110 which was miller.

Nick Smith in a vacuum for some teams may be fine. But for this team which was already loaded with this type of player, of which I can't understand why we keep drafting or signing, it just made no sense. I'm sure here were a lot of other directions they could have gone with this pick that I think would have made more impact short-term and long-term.

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You are putting way toooooooo much stock in summer league man. Nick Smith turned 19 in April, he was one of the youngest players in the draft has only played 15 games at the college level. He has scored double digits in 3/4 games on a team that is featuring him as 4th option behind Bouk,Miller and Bryce. A bad team at that.

If you wanted to see a fully finished product who could play summer league defense and blend in with 8 pts on 3/5 shooting and is 22 years old then I am sure they could have found that. Just doubt the FO is really all that concerned with who can play the best in SL.

Bouknight is a bust, he won't be on the team next year. Idk why you are even considering him at all in the NSJ draft decision.
Same with Nnjai, Kai is a bust. You shouldn't let those two guys prevent you form drafting other players in similar molds.

Post #73 » by **fatlever** » Mon Jul 10, 2023 3:37 pm

No doubt, bouk should already be off the team. I have no doubt he'll be cut before the season starts.

I don't watch college basketball so this is the first time I'm seeing Nick play. I realize our summer league team is a train wreck and it needs to be taken with a grain of salt, that being said it's pretty easy to see what type of player Nick is and isn't. His skill set and player type is not a player I would value. I've mentioned before that Mitch and I must have drastically different opinions on what types of players bring value to an organization.

It's clear Nick it's not a point guard. So he won't help us there. He doesn't appear to be a great three-point shooter, maybe he gets there in the future. He doesn't seem to have great size for his position, or at least he plays smaller than his size. He's not a great defender so I don't see how he helps us there. At least he hustles which is more than I can say for bouk. He doesn't appear to have great basketball instincts, or a great feel for the game Beyond getting his own shot off. He doesn't appear to be a player who makes others better. Doesn't appear to be a cerebral high IQ player.

What were left with is a player in the same mold as players who've come before him and provided nothing that adds to winning. Same reason I'm lower in on Nick is the same reason I was not in on Bouk, the same reason I don't value Kelly as a player, same reason I think we should move off of terry, and the same reason I'm now pretty much out on Bryce as a player. Tired of bringing these types of players into the organization. They don't add to winning and they don't help build type of culture I think we should be building, aka one of smart unselfish Players who, unless they are the high usage guys top guys, should excel in a particular skill IE three-point shooting, passing, rim protection, point of attack defending, rim pressure etc. This Affinity with taking swings at the fence looking for guys who can get their own shot off, everyone else be damned, I just don't understand. It reeks of desperation.

On top of all that, we drafted another similar player in Bailey right behind him, and Bailey appears to be a player that has an easier path to playing time. He may not have the upside of nick, but he does the little things better, the types of things that would help get him on the floor and benefit the other players.

Nnaji should already passed Kai on the depth chart no doubt. I'm completely out on kai, and I wouldn't have him on the roster going into the season. Enough is enough with him. It's year three and he still doesn't know how to set a screen or defend a screen, the most basic skills he needs to learn.

And again in a vacuum Nnaji looks to be pretty decent value for where we drafted him. But I do kind of wish we had a center in the rotation who brought a different skill set to compliment Mark and nick. We now have three centers who all have very similar strengths and weaknesses.

In terms of what I've seen so far in summer league, I would rabk these guys 1. Nnaji 2. Bailey 3. Nick in terms of who I think can actually help this team and become a rotation player the next few years.

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JMAC3 · Post #74 » by **JMAC3** » Mon Jul 10, 2023 3:56 pm

Again, you are basing all this off of summer league, which is overall pretty useless medium to evaluate NBA talent.
With NSJ especially you are taking the #1 player in the country, giving him 15 college games where he played hurt and 4 SL games and putting a ton of weight into it. Expecting there to be no adjustment period for him.

So yeah, I highly doubt the #1 player in the country who could do whatever he wanted in high school is going to come in at age 19 and be a ready-made defender and high-level facilitator. Yet you are putting him in that box before 1 game of real NBA basketball. Do you not see the issue with that evaluation?

Post #75 » by **fatlever** » Mon Jul 10, 2023 5:00 pm

His high school recruiting ranks are mostly meaningless.

It's about style, play type.

Who is nicks best case player comp? Realistic player comp?

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JMAC3 · Post #76 » by **JMAC3** » Mon Jul 10, 2023 5:20 pm

fatlever wrote:His high school recruiting ranks are mostly meaningless.

It's about style, play type.

Who is nicks best case player comp? Realistic player comp?

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Spencer Dinwiddee, Tyler Herro, Jordan Poole, Immanuel Quickly, Tyrese Maxey, Anfernee Simons, Malik Monk, Malaki Branham, Jordan Clarkson, Colin Sexton, Gabe Vincent, Coby White, Cole Anthony...

If he falls anywhere in that range that is a pretty good pick for #27 overall.

vorbis · Post #77 » by **vorbis** » Mon Jul 10, 2023 5:49 pm

bottom line we still don't know what the top end of the bell curve outcome is for NSJ. his game is completely rough right now, and I get the sense that there really aren't "roles" on this summer league team. just roll the ball out there and get buckets kind of vibes.

if he's ball hogging and not looking for his opponents in a game where there's a gameplan and some predetermined sets and team goals, yeah that's bad. but if it's just a bunch of guys hooping, it's less of a big deal, and could even be seen as a sign of confidence in a **** situation.

to me I get more out of looking at individual skills that players have when they're playing in Vegas. and their playing mentality, which I think you can guess at in this environment. especially when things are going bad. which they are.

Smith is hustling and hurtling himself at the rim. he's making moves with his dribble to open space for his jumpshot. he's running the hell out of the floor. he's giving bare minimum effort on defense. those are the things I'm looking at. the rest should start to come with a couple dozen games in Greensboro.

or it won't and he'll Bouknight himself. I will say that his apparent attitude and body language are already lapping Bouknight's from his first summer league, which was a legendary "IDGAF" experience that turned a lot of people off from the jump. plus Smith's pace of play is soooo much more conducive to success in the NBA than Bouknight's lull-them-to-sleep pace.

SWedd523 · Post #78 » by **SWedd523** » Mon Jul 10, 2023 6:22 pm

For the record, I don't have any issues with the Nick pick.

From a purely value standpoint, he was a lotto guy the entire draft cycle and likely would've stayed there if he didn't have injury problems all year.

Also, I completely disagree that we don't need his type. We've been playing a PG at the 2 since Kemba's time because we can't find a guy to fit the gunner role.

Our issue is that we keep finding the dumb gunners who can't gun or play D. We've sunk almost a decade into Monk and Bouknight. Had that been Beal, Booker, Mitchell, etc. then we wouldn't be complaining about the gunner profile.

Whether or not Nick pans out is on him and the coaching staff. If he hits then we have a long term 2. If not, then they'll keep rolling the dice.

I've seen enough from SL to say I think he's already better than Bouk, which is admittedly a low bar. He at least hustles, stays engaged, and shows a desire to play hard. If that can be focused and his shooting can improve then great.

Either way, his arrival probably means Bouk is gone, which is also great.

Post #79 » by **luciano-davidwesley** » Mon Jul 10, 2023 10:35 pm

fatlever wrote:No doubt, bouk should already be off the team. I have no doubt he'll be cut before the season starts.

I don't watch college basketball so this is the first time I'm seeing Nick play. I realize our summer league team is a train wreck and it needs to be taken with a grain of salt, that being said it's pretty easy to see what type of player Nick is and isn't. His skill set and player type is not a player I would value. I've mentioned before that Mitch and I must have drastically different opinions on what types of players bring value to an organization.

It's clear Nick it's not a point guard. So he won't help us there. He doesn't appear to be a great three-point shooter, maybe he gets there in the future. He doesn't seem to have great size for his position, or at least he plays smaller than his size. He's not a great defender so I don't see how he helps us there. At least he hustles which is more than I can say for bouk. He doesn't appear to have great basketball instincts, or a great feel for the game Beyond getting his own shot off. He doesn't appear to be a player who makes others better. Doesn't appear to be a cerebral high IQ player.

What were left with is a player in the same mold as players who've come before him and provided nothing that adds to winning. Same reason I'm lower in on Nick is the same reason I was not in on Bouk, the same reason I don't value Kelly as a player, same reason I think we should move off of terry, and the same reason I'm now pretty much out on Bryce as a player. Tired of bringing these types of players into the organization. They don't add to winning and they don't help build type of culture I think we should be building, aka one of smart unselfish Players who, unless they are the high usage guys top guys, should excel in a particular skill IE three-point shooting, passing, rim protection, point of attack defending, rim pressure etc. This Affinity with taking swings at the fence looking for guys who can get their own shot off, everyone else be damned, I just don't understand. It reeks of desperation.

On top of all that, we drafted another similar player in Bailey right behind him, and Bailey appears to be a player that has an easier path to playing time. He may not have the upside of nick, but he does the little things better, the types of things that would help get him on the floor and benefit the other players.

Nnaji should already passed Kai on the depth chart no doubt. I'm completely out on kai, and I wouldn't have him on the roster going into the season. Enough is enough with him. It's year three and he still doesn't know how to set a screen or defend a screen, the most basic skills he needs to learn.

And again in a vacuum Nnaji looks to be pretty decent value for where we drafted him. But I do kind of wish we had a center in the rotation who brought a different skill set to compliment Mark and nick. We now have three centers who all have very similar strengths and weaknesses.

In terms of what I've seen so far in summer league, I would rabk these guys 1. Nnaji 2. Bailey 3. Nick in terms of who I think can actually help this team and become a rotation player the next few years.

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Great post and you sum up my thoughts perfectly

Post #80 » by **luciano-davidwesley** » Mon Jul 10, 2023 10:39 pm

JMAC3 wrote:Again, you are basing all this off of summer league, which is overall pretty useless medium to evaluate NBA talent.
With NSJ especially you are taking the #1 player in the country, giving him 15 college games where he played hurt and 4 SL games and putting a ton of weight into it. Expecting there to be no adjustment period for him.

So yeah, I highly doubt the #1 player in the country who could do whatever he wanted in high school is going to come in at age 19 and be a ready-made defender and high-level facilitator. Yet you are putting him in that box before 1 game of real NBA basketball. Do you not see the issue with that evaluation?

Being the number one guy in high school is pretty meaningless. Vernon Carey was a 5 star recruit and he's already out of the league most likely.

All I see is a guy who majority underwhelmed in college and watching him play for us it's pretty obvious why. He's not particularly good at anything, has 0 basketball IQ and his hype in high school was overblown. He doesn't play the game the right way and his archetype is easily the least valuable NBA skill set and role.