Trade/Free Agency Thread, part Ocho, 2023-24

[Hal14]

Brad is probably trying to turn Brown into Siakam and Bey, three team deal of some sorts. I could sign off on Siakam and Bey for Brown and filler. Brown to Atlanta (where his would probably resign), Hunter and Brogdon to Toronto, Siakam, Bey and Okongwu to Boston.

Atlanta Hawks Trade Breakdown
Incoming Players
Jaylen Brown
Outgoing Players
De'Andre Hunter
Onyeka Okongwu
Saddiq Bey
Why for Atlanta:
They get an all-pro player without having to gut the team. Trae, Murray, Bogdanovic, Brown and Capela is a really good line up.

Boston Celtics Trade Breakdown
Incoming Players
Onyeka Okongwu
Saddiq Bey
Pascal Siakam
Outgoing Players
Jaylen Brown
Malcolm Brogdon
Why for Boston:
Boston now doesn't have to pay Brown the supermax contract and can extend Siakam for much less. They get Bey (24 years old) to replace Brown in the starting lineup, and they also get another project big in Okongwu who is just 22.
White, Bey, Tatum, Siakam, Porzingis is a killer lineup. They would need to find a PG to back up White though.

Toronto Raptors Trade Breakdown
Incoming Players
De'Andre Hunter
Malcolm Brogdon
Outgoing Players
Pascal Siakam
Why for Toronto:
They are able to move on from Siakam, and turn him into Hunter, who is younger and cheaper, and get their FVV point guard replacement in Brogdon.
Brogdon, Trent, Anunoby, Barnes, Poeltl, with Hunter, Achiuwa, Boucher, Koloko is and Porter off the bench is a good deep line up.

Picks may be needed to round things out a bit, not sure, just spit balling here.

Sounds good - I'm in.

I wouldn’t trade a top 14 pick for any one of those Atlanta players …. and yet they get Brown? Boston gives up all-NBA player and 6MOY for an expiring Siakam and a journeyman? Literally the worst trade idea yet.

Who are we getting who's a journeyman? Siakam and Okongwu have only played on 1 NBA team. Bey has only played for 2 NBA teams.

I'd rather have Siakam on this team than JB. And that's not even factoring in contracts - Siakam would be a much cheaper contract, though.

We're getting 3 good players and only giving up 2..good deal imo.

[Larry_Russell]

1)Without Brown, this team was a gentleman sweep in first round.
2) With him they are a perennial contender.
You argue back and forth all day whether he is worth a supermax, a max but at the end of the day …. there are 30 NBA teams and therefore by definition there are 30 guys who deserve to be #1 on one of them. JB has earned that money and make no mistake he is getting it from the Celtics.

And if you have a player of that value you don’t give him away regardless of what you think of his shortcomings. Once he is extended - and he is absolutely 100% going to be - he can’t be traded for a year.

1) That is completely debateable and based on nothing but your own opinions and beliefs.

2) Maybe, but also with what you get from a Brown deal and adding KP we are still perennial contenders.

3) I would argue that Jaylen does not deserve to be number 1 on any single team.

go down through the list of teams and their top players...there are very few teams that Jaylen would be the unquestioned number 1 on.

Atlanta Hawks - Trae
Boston Celtics - Tatum
Brooklyn Nets - Bridges
Charlotte Hornets - Ball
Chicago Bulls - Demar/Lavine
Cleveland Cavaliers - Mitchell/Garland
Dallas Mavericks - Luka and Kyrie
Denver Nuggets - Jokic, Murray
Detroit Pistons - Sure
Golden State Warriors - Steph
Houston Rockets - FVV and the youth
Indiana Pacers - Haliburton
Los Angeles Clippers - Kawhi and George
Los Angeles Lakers - Davis and LEbron
Memphis Grizzlies - Ja,
Miami Heat - Butler
Milwaukee Bucks - Giannis, Jrue
Minnesota Timberwolves - Ant and KAT
New Orleans Pelicans - Ingram
New York Knicks - Brunson
Oklahoma City Thunder - SGA
Orlando Magic - Sure
Philadelphia 76ers - Embiid
Phoenix Suns - Durant, Booker
Portland Trail Blazers - Dame
Sacramento Kings - Sabonis, Fox
San Antonio Spurs - Victor
Toronto Raptors - Siakam
Utah Jazz - Markannen
Washington Wizards - Sure

There are three teams that I personally hve Jaylen as the true Alpha #1 guy on.

And some of these teams have 2 guys I put above him with a couple teams that I would accept him being argued over the players I listed

FVV lol these lists people put together.

Its FVV and the YOUTH. If I am running that team I want Green and Smith Jr getting as many touches as possible with FVV being the floor coach.

That is not lol worthy and instead that is smart asset growth. They have to believe that at least 1 of Smith, Amen, Green reach a level above Browns.

[Larry_Russell]

Trade him.


I am firmly of the belief that, in this case, 2 nickels is worth more than Browns dime.

I also firmly believe that if Dame had Boston on his list he would be a celtic right now.

I think the problem is you don’t get two Nickles back likely. If it’s Dame as an example you have a two year window and increase the likelyhood that Tatum leaves. You probably have to give up picks so you screw you future. Is that worth it?

If you trade Brown for lesser players and picks you basically close this window. We take a step back to hang with the Hawks and Knicks of the world.

That is a chicken little view.

It Tatum win a championship or 2 he isnt leaving. Tatum is not that dude.

Trading brown for lesser player would MAYBE be true for closing a window, but remember we have a massivle improved White and also now have Porzingas.

Trading brown for Nickles would not but us os on Atlantas level cause

Brogdon/Pritchard/Banton
White/Walsh
Tatum/Hauser
Porzingas/Brisset
Timelord/Horford/Kornet

That team is much better than Atlanta and the Knicks and has much higher top end talent, and that is assuming NOTHING comes back from a Brown trade.

This team goes as far as Tatum takes them.....not Brown.

[BK_2020]

1. It isn't "delusional" to negotiate the best deal for yourself
2. He's not eligible for a NTC

Believe me it's quite delusional and counterproductive to go into negotiation thinking randomly throwing out really nice things you want reality be damned. That is not good faith negotiation and doesn't get you anywhere.

It really isn't at all. Especially if you have the leverage he does. Sounds like he's doing what he's supposed to do to look out for himself. It's a moot point anyway, since he isn't eligible for a NTC

The leverage for the Celtics is Brad can send him to the Utah or San Antonio.

[snowman]

Sounds good - I'm in.

I wouldn’t trade a top 14 pick for any one of those Atlanta players …. and yet they get Brown? Boston gives up all-NBA player and 6MOY for an expiring Siakam and a journeyman? Literally the worst trade idea yet.

Who are we getting who's a journeyman? Siakam and Okongwu have only played on 1 NBA team. Bey has only played for 2 NBA teams.

I'd rather have Siakam on this team than JB. And that's not even factoring in contracts - Siakam would be a much cheaper contract, though.

We're getting 3 good players and only giving up 2..good deal imo.

With Brown only having one more year on hi contract, I doubt the return would be much higher. The Billy Kings of the NBA are few and far between these days. Also, everybody seems to want Dame, but in four years when the rest of our team is hitting their prime, we'll be paying a 36-year-old guard, who relies on his quickness, over 63 million dollars. Not saying Dame won't still be a great player. but I'll take the odds that he will not be worth that contract.

[Bar Fight]

Believe me it's quite delusional and counterproductive to go into negotiation thinking randomly throwing out really nice things you want reality be damned. That is not good faith negotiation and doesn't get you anywhere.

It really isn't at all. Especially if you have the leverage he does. Sounds like he's doing what he's supposed to do to look out for himself. It's a moot point anyway, since he isn't eligible for a NTC

The leverage for the Celtics is Brad can send him to the Utah or San Antonio.

What's stopping them?

[sam_I_am]

Sounds good - I'm in.

I wouldn’t trade a top 14 pick for any one of those Atlanta players …. and yet they get Brown? Boston gives up all-NBA player and 6MOY for an expiring Siakam and a journeyman? Literally the worst trade idea yet.

Who are we getting who's a journeyman? Siakam and Okongwu have only played on 1 NBA team. Bey has only played for 2 NBA teams.

I'd rather have Siakam on this team than JB. And that's not even factoring in contracts - Siakam would be a much cheaper contract, though.

We're getting 3 good players and only giving up 2..good deal imo.

You must like the Dame for Herro and Robinson trade then.

[Curmudgeon]

I don't think Brad will send him anywhere, which means that this offseason could be a disaster that costs Stevens his job. Clippers East.

[165bows]

1) That is completely debateable and based on nothing but your own opinions and beliefs.

2) Maybe, but also with what you get from a Brown deal and adding KP we are still perennial contenders.

3) I would argue that Jaylen does not deserve to be number 1 on any single team.

go down through the list of teams and their top players...there are very few teams that Jaylen would be the unquestioned number 1 on.

Atlanta Hawks - Trae
Boston Celtics - Tatum
Brooklyn Nets - Bridges
Charlotte Hornets - Ball
Chicago Bulls - Demar/Lavine
Cleveland Cavaliers - Mitchell/Garland
Dallas Mavericks - Luka and Kyrie
Denver Nuggets - Jokic, Murray
Detroit Pistons - Sure
Golden State Warriors - Steph
Houston Rockets - FVV and the youth
Indiana Pacers - Haliburton
Los Angeles Clippers - Kawhi and George
Los Angeles Lakers - Davis and LEbron
Memphis Grizzlies - Ja,
Miami Heat - Butler
Milwaukee Bucks - Giannis, Jrue
Minnesota Timberwolves - Ant and KAT
New Orleans Pelicans - Ingram
New York Knicks - Brunson
Oklahoma City Thunder - SGA
Orlando Magic - Sure
Philadelphia 76ers - Embiid
Phoenix Suns - Durant, Booker
Portland Trail Blazers - Dame
Sacramento Kings - Sabonis, Fox
San Antonio Spurs - Victor
Toronto Raptors - Siakam
Utah Jazz - Markannen
Washington Wizards - Sure

There are three teams that I personally hve Jaylen as the true Alpha #1 guy on.

And some of these teams have 2 guys I put above him with a couple teams that I would accept him being argued over the players I listed

FVV lol these lists people put together.

Its FVV and the YOUTH. If I am running that team I want Green and Smith Jr getting as many touches as possible with FVV being the floor coach.

That is not lol worthy and instead that is smart asset growth. They have to believe that at least 1 of Smith, Amen, Green reach a level above Browns.

Sure they can want to believe it and maybe it's true but fact is Jaylen is way above average for a third overall pick.

But you are having your cake and eating it too if you say these teams have young guys that might be good but also include premier markets with 35+ year olds that won't have jack squat including draft picks in two years and will be looking for a real player. Future cuts both ways but that's what happens with these lists.

[bigfoot_cryptozoology]

Read on Twitter

[snowman]

I wouldn’t trade a top 14 pick for any one of those Atlanta players …. and yet they get Brown? Boston gives up all-NBA player and 6MOY for an expiring Siakam and a journeyman? Literally the worst trade idea yet.

Who are we getting who's a journeyman? Siakam and Okongwu have only played on 1 NBA team. Bey has only played for 2 NBA teams.

I'd rather have Siakam on this team than JB. And that's not even factoring in contracts - Siakam would be a much cheaper contract, though.

We're getting 3 good players and only giving up 2..good deal imo.

With Brown only having one more year on hi contract, I doubt the return would be much higher. The Billy Kings of the NBA are few and far between these days. Also, everybody seems to want Dame, but in four years when the rest of our team is hitting their prime, we'll be paying a 36-year-old guard, who relies on his quickness, over 63 million dollars. Not saying Dame won't still be a great player. but I'll take the odds that he will not be worth that contract.

Let me be clear, I do not want to trade Brown. But if he demands a NTC and won't sign without one (still waiting on proof from the CBA that he can even get one) then I say it's time to move on and get what we can for him. Just not Dame. Dame's contract is worse than Brown's would be to our financials, and it's not even close. A 30-year-old wing (Brown) is much more tradable at 60 mil than a 36-year-old guard (Dame) is at 63 mil.

[snowman]

I wouldn’t trade a top 14 pick for any one of those Atlanta players …. and yet they get Brown? Boston gives up all-NBA player and 6MOY for an expiring Siakam and a journeyman? Literally the worst trade idea yet.

Who are we getting who's a journeyman? Siakam and Okongwu have only played on 1 NBA team. Bey has only played for 2 NBA teams.

I'd rather have Siakam on this team than JB. And that's not even factoring in contracts - Siakam would be a much cheaper contract, though.

We're getting 3 good players and only giving up 2..good deal imo.

You must like the Dame for Herro and Robinson trade then.

I'm not a fan of Herro or Robinson, so, no I am not.

[Hal14]

Available unrestricted free agents..

Christian Wood
Kelly Oubre
Terence Davis
Wes Matthews
Willy Hernangomez
Justice Winslow
Austin Rivers
Derrick Jones Jr
Darius Bazley
Kendrick Nunn
Trendon Watford
Hamidou Diallo
TJ Warren
Blake Griffin
Javonte Green
Bismack Biyombo
JaMychal Green
Wenyen Gabriel
Jaylen Nowell
Terrence Ross
Will Barton
John Wall
Alize Johnson
Ish Smith
Juan Toscano-Anderson
Marko Simonovic
Harry Giles
Glenn Robinson III
Edy Tavares
Kyle Guy
Georgios Papagiannis

[Larry_Russell]

FVV lol these lists people put together.

Its FVV and the YOUTH. If I am running that team I want Green and Smith Jr getting as many touches as possible with FVV being the floor coach.

That is not lol worthy and instead that is smart asset growth. They have to believe that at least 1 of Smith, Amen, Green reach a level above Browns.

Sure they can want to believe it and maybe it's true but fact is Jaylen is way above average for a third overall pick.

But you are having your cake and eating it too if you say these teams have young guys that might be good but also include premier markets with 35+ year olds that won't have jack squat including draft picks in two years and will be looking for a real player. Future cuts both ways but that's what happens with these lists.

this list was exclusivley in response to someone claiming he deserved to be a number 1 on a team, and that "most" teams he would be exactly that and that is why Brown should be paid max.

I pointed out that MOST team have a #1 already that is more important than him, with a few debateables.

Sure on Washington Brown is the clear cut #1 guy.
Same on Detroit.

Are you putting him #1 on the lakers? Memphis? Pelicans? etc?

No

In 2 years time adding todays Jaylen brown? sure. Clippers I am sure would probably make Brown the #1 option in 2 years if they had him today. Well Maybe at least, cause like you said regarding the future, Maybe Mann or an asset from a george or Leonard trade is more than Brown.

And based on Browns advanced stats that is very plausible.

[GoCeltics123]

Ramona Shelburne just said on NBA Today that she's heard "progress" was made with Jaylen's contract. Mentioned the same things others have mentioned, a lot of the wait is the little details on the contract like bonuses and trade kickers, both sides want to get it done, etc etc

Aka the same stuff we've been hearing the whole time

[Dogen]

F&ck it, he looks pretty good. And he's listed at 6'11", 240 lbs but in this vid he looks closer to 6'10" but that's still good size. Still young (age 25), Tatum's close friend. At least give him like a non-guaranteed deal so can compete for a roster spot in training camp.

If that’s the “workout” it’s meaningless. He’s not going game speed, and he looks like he’s lost even more athleticism. I loved his talent even after the injuries - the rebounding instinct, shot blocking timing, flashes of vision as a passer, the quick, compact hook shots.

But to put all that together, through constant injuries and missed development time.. he’s the longest of long shots.

Giles is terrible. He is 25, has not played in the NBA in 2 years and last time he did play he averaged 2.8 PPG and 3 RPG. To put thing in prospective Luke Kornet puts up almost the same exact numbers.

Giles looks a bit slow, mechanical and not much lift, but the J looks smooth; he could be OK for a pick and pop guy off the bench if he can play a little D.

So yeah... F&kc it, for a 15th guy and Tatum's friend he could be a good story this year... when he's flashing that ring!

[bigfoot_cryptozoology]

Get those 2nd Rounders ready...

Read on Twitter

[darrendaye]

IMO, with Tatum-Porzingis becoming the 2 primary hubs for the offense, Brown can evolve his game to make him a better fit on any team or go Ray Allen, "I don't want to be no decoy" and potentially creating a circus. Has to commit to making a bigger impact defensively and, let the offense come to him. I think they can make it work and like others have said, not giving it this one chance to do so by doing a Jaylen downgrade trade isn't going to sit well with Tatum.

[Dogen]

I could 100% see the Celtics figuring out a way to get Saddiq Bey and or Deandre Hunter

Brad is probably trying to turn Brown into Siakam and Bey, three team deal of some sorts. I could sign off on Siakam and Bey for Brown and filler. Brown to Atlanta (where his would probably resign), Hunter and Brogdon to Toronto, Siakam, Bey and Okongwu to Boston.

Atlanta Hawks Trade Breakdown
Incoming Players
Jaylen Brown
Outgoing Players
De'Andre Hunter
Onyeka Okongwu
Saddiq Bey
Why for Atlanta:
They get an all-pro player without having to gut the team. Trae, Murray, Bogdanovic, Brown and Capela is a really good line up.

Boston Celtics Trade Breakdown
Incoming Players
Onyeka Okongwu
Saddiq Bey
Pascal Siakam
Outgoing Players
Jaylen Brown
Malcolm Brogdon
Why for Boston:
Boston now doesn't have to pay Brown the supermax contract and can extend Siakam for much less. They get Bey (24 years old) to replace Brown in the starting lineup, and they also get another project big in Okongwu who is just 22.
White, Bey, Tatum, Siakam, Porzingis is a killer lineup. They would need to find a PG to back up White though.

Toronto Raptors Trade Breakdown
Incoming Players
De'Andre Hunter
Malcolm Brogdon
Outgoing Players
Pascal Siakam
Why for Toronto:
They are able to move on from Siakam, and turn him into Hunter, who is younger and cheaper, and get their FVV point guard replacement in Brogdon.
Brogdon, Trent, Anunoby, Barnes, Poeltl, with Hunter, Achiuwa, Boucher, Koloko is and Porter off the bench is a good deep line up.

Picks may be needed to round things out a bit, not sure, just spit balling here.

Sounds good - I'm in.

I can almost see this for all three teams. Maybe ATL is giving up a lot and TOR not getting so much? Can add picks in there to balance things out, but I like this for the Celtics. Biggest team in the league? Celtics do indeed need another move for the backcourt though.

White/Pritchard/Banton
Bey/ WENEEDSOMEHELPHERE
Tatum/Hauser/Walsh
Siakam/Horford/Brissett
Porzingis/Williams III/Kornet

[snowman]

Jaylen Brown and the Celtics will agree on a contract extension with super max numbers, but with some protections built in for Jaylen and the team. Something along the lines of a player option before the 3rd season, but as part of the contract, if he opts out at this time, he would be a RFA, and the team could match any offer, a team option before the 4th season and another player option before the 5th season. This is, certainly just an example, but it will be something that is confusing, and no Celtics fan, regardless of opinion of Brown, will like or understand.

I posted this on July 4th, and still stand by it.