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Miami Heat Offseason Thread 8.0 - 47 cRonin and the inevitable seppuku

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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 8.0 - 47 cRonin and the inevitable seppuku 

Post#1741 » by wadenation305 » Tue Jul 11, 2023 7:41 pm

DiegoChara wrote:
oreon wrote:
DiegoChara wrote:
But as you say, Miami has a tight window to contend with Jimmy. So they’re motivated to get a deal done as well. Is holding up a deal for Jovic or Jaquez worth it (if indeed they are)?


Yes. Unless you are getting young players in their prime you can't assume its gonna work out. It didn't with Nets and may not with Suns. In case it doesn't, you need some assets around Bam to rebuild. As much as we talk we are a FA destination. It really hasn't worked out that was post Lebron. So we can't assume if this doesn't work out, that a Mitchell or Tatum gonna come here when its just Bam and 0 assets.
If this was prime Dame, then going all in makes sense. He's not.


I understand that due to age he’s likely to decline soon, but as a matter of fact he IS still currently prime Dame. Last season was the best statistical season of his career.



The fact is, the Timberwolves are super dumb, and it's not anyone else's fault. What they gave for Gobert was unrealistic and desperate. And that does not mean Dame is worth the entire team and everything not nailed down in a trade. It would be the case if this was say 24-25-year-old Dame. You can't try to sell me the world's most expensive phone, which is about to be obsolete and thus will no longer receive any support and a new version is about to come out and say "Hey it doesn't matter that it will be obsolete soon and will be out of support and the new version is coming out soon. It's good for at least a couple of months" You'd have to be a moron to agree to that type of deal. It's a two-way street.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 8.0 - 47 cRonin and the inevitable seppuku 

Post#1742 » by MiamiLoyal926 » Tue Jul 11, 2023 7:44 pm

DBurks2818 wrote:
MiamiLoyal926 wrote:I remember a time where we all clamored for Lowry and thought he would come in here and continue to perform his magic…

Reality set in real quick that his production at $30mil was a big negative… and you all haven’t stop complaining about it since.

Wonder what the sentiment will be when we see another PG fall victim to Father Time on our clock and in our books making more than $55mil for a couple more seasons…


If ait results in an NBA championship, I'm sure the fanbase will manage.


“If”

- We are still not favorites with Dame…
- Injuries to key players have been a theme around these parts(Dragic, Bam, Butler, Herro)…
- I see a 2 year window, maybe 3…
- If we get one early on, but then return to average thereafter, Heat fans will still complain about the albatross of a contract…
- We will also be frustrated with Pat because we have no picks and no youth worth a lick to trade… and we will miss on Bam’s friends and be kicking ourselves we didn’t have the foresight…

Hindsight is 20/20 especially when you ignore the street signs ahead of you!!!
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 8.0 - 47 cRonin and the inevitable seppuku 

Post#1743 » by DayofMourning » Tue Jul 11, 2023 7:47 pm

Kobewade11 wrote:
MiamiLoyal926 wrote:I remember a time where we all clamored for Lowry and thought he would come in here and continue to perform his magic…

Reality set in real quick that his production at $30mil was a big negative… and you all haven’t stop complaining about it since.

Wonder what the sentiment will be when we see another PG fall victim to Father Time on our clock and in our books making more than $55mil for a couple more seasons…


Lillard after a fall off is still probably a better player than Lowry was his last year in Toronto. If he comes cool, if he doesn't thats cool too..that's where I'm at. If this is to get done I just hope it gets done soon as it would be unfair to the guys going out to drag this crap into camp.


And I think thats the best way to do it. Cronin holding out doesnt benefit anyone. He may think it benefits his franchise but thats not the case.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 8.0 - 47 cRonin and the inevitable seppuku 

Post#1744 » by MorbidHEAT » Tue Jul 11, 2023 7:47 pm

BlueHeat wrote:The trailblazers are making fools of themselves. Dragging this out months for an additional marginal player reeks of desperation. Dame gave them 11 years - they paid him, but did nothing else. Let the guy go. He isn't even in their plans supposedly. Just a sad organization all around.

I understand trying to extract maximum value, but at a point waiting will only produce diminishing returns. What's the hold up (other than being petty)?


It’s really kind of crazy how badly they botched this. Every day that goes by, they lose a little more power. Threatening to not trade him is essentially like threatening to hold your breath under water. You either going to come up for air or you are going to drown.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 8.0 - 47 cRonin and the inevitable seppuku 

Post#1745 » by powerball1373 » Tue Jul 11, 2023 7:47 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:Curry is better but has he won any rings Dame wouldn’t have if you swapped the 2? Maybe his most recent?


Lol that's like saying if you swapped Trae Young with Dame, he could've accomplished the same things, which he has. Trae actually won a couple games in the conference finals against the eventual champs, while Dame got has ass swept off the floor against a KD-less Warriors team. There's winners and losers in life, buddy. Steph is a winner. Dame is not.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 8.0 - 47 cRonin and the inevitable seppuku 

Post#1746 » by DBurks2818 » Tue Jul 11, 2023 7:49 pm

MiamiLoyal926 wrote:
DBurks2818 wrote:
MiamiLoyal926 wrote:I remember a time where we all clamored for Lowry and thought he would come in here and continue to perform his magic…

Reality set in real quick that his production at $30mil was a big negative… and you all haven’t stop complaining about it since.

Wonder what the sentiment will be when we see another PG fall victim to Father Time on our clock and in our books making more than $55mil for a couple more seasons…


If it results in an NBA championship, I'm sure the fanbase will manage.


“If”

- We are still not favorites with Dame…
- Injuries to key players have been a theme around these parts(Dragic, Bam, Butler, Herro)…
- I see a 2 year window, maybe 3…
- If we get one early on, but then return to average thereafter, Heat fans will still complain about the albatross of a contract…
- We will also be frustrated with Pat because we have no picks and no youth worth a lick to trade… and we will miss on Bam’s friends and be kicking ourselves we didn’t have the foresight…

Hindsight is 20/20 especially when you ignore the street signs ahead of you!!!


I hear you, but I don't think we can confidently assess things until after the trade goes through. If the Heat manage to get Dame without giving up Caleb Martin for example, and maybe bring in a competent backup swing PG/SG at the same time, then I personally would say they're the favorites, yes. Obviously everything depends on health. But healthy? The fit is so good that yes, they'd be the faves IMO.

But yes. If. Just like your "when we see another PG fall victim to Father Time on our clock and in our books" is an 'if'.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 8.0 - 47 cRonin and the inevitable seppuku 

Post#1747 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Tue Jul 11, 2023 7:50 pm

NightWatch wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
Read on Twitter



Dame is not coming. Move on. This drama is like when Kobe Bryant demanded to be traded to Miami and nothing materialized.


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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 8.0 - 47 cRonin and the inevitable seppuku 

Post#1748 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Tue Jul 11, 2023 7:50 pm

MiamiLoyal926 wrote:I remember a time where we all clamored for Lowry and thought he would come in here and continue to perform his magic…

Reality set in real quick that his production at $30mil was a big negative… and you all haven’t stop complaining about it since.

Wonder what the sentiment will be when we see another PG fall victim to Father Time on our clock and in our books making more than $55mil for a couple more seasons…


Lillard is a far superior player, they’re not even close to being close.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 8.0 - 47 cRonin and the inevitable seppuku 

Post#1749 » by greg4012 » Tue Jul 11, 2023 7:54 pm

MiamiLoyal926 wrote:
DBurks2818 wrote:
MiamiLoyal926 wrote:I remember a time where we all clamored for Lowry and thought he would come in here and continue to perform his magic…

Reality set in real quick that his production at $30mil was a big negative… and you all haven’t stop complaining about it since.

Wonder what the sentiment will be when we see another PG fall victim to Father Time on our clock and in our books making more than $55mil for a couple more seasons…


If ait results in an NBA championship, I'm sure the fanbase will manage.


“If”

- We are still not favorites with Dame…
- Injuries to key players have been a theme around these parts(Dragic, Bam, Butler, Herro)…
- I see a 2 year window, maybe 3…
- If we get one early on, but then return to average thereafter, Heat fans will still complain about the albatross of a contract…
- We will also be frustrated with Pat because we have no picks and no youth worth a lick to trade… and we will miss on Bam’s friends and be kicking ourselves we didn’t have the foresight…

Hindsight is 20/20 especially when you ignore the street signs ahead of you!!!


You can be cautious about the trade and package offered and still realize that the comparison to Lowry is hyperbolic at best and absurd at worst, right?
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 8.0 - 47 cRonin and the inevitable seppuku 

Post#1750 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Tue Jul 11, 2023 7:55 pm

powerball1373 wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:Curry is better but has he won any rings Dame wouldn’t have if you swapped the 2? Maybe his most recent?


Lol that's like saying if you swapped Trae Young with Dame, he could've accomplished the same things, which he has. Trae actually won a couple games in the conference finals against the eventual champs, while Dame got has ass swept off the floor against a KD-less Warriors team. There's winners and losers in life, buddy. Steph is a winner. Dame is not.


A KD less warriors team coming off a 73-9 season without him right lol? Dame was injured that series as well but playing through it, their teams have never been on equal footing. But I’m glad you agree he’d probably have at least 3 rings if you swapped them and he more than likely wouldn’t have lost Finals MVP to Iggy. May have not **** his pants in 2016 either, you never know.

Curry has 3 of the weakest rings in nba history tbh.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 8.0 - 47 cRonin and the inevitable seppuku 

Post#1751 » by MiamiLoyal926 » Tue Jul 11, 2023 7:56 pm

Kobewade11 wrote:
MiamiLoyal926 wrote:I remember a time where we all clamored for Lowry and thought he would come in here and continue to perform his magic…

Reality set in real quick that his production at $30mil was a big negative… and you all haven’t stop complaining about it since.

Wonder what the sentiment will be when we see another PG fall victim to Father Time on our clock and in our books making more than $55mil for a couple more seasons…


Lillard after a fall off is still probably a better player than Lowry was his last year in Toronto. If he comes cool, if he doesn't thats cool too..that's where I'm at. If this is to get done I just hope it gets done soon as it would be unfair to the guys going out to drag this crap into camp.


I would hope at $45mil, he would be better than Lowry…. that still doesn’t mean it’s a good return on investment per dollar. Again… if Lowry pissed us off at $30mil… imagine Dame at $45mil, $52mil, $58mil, and $63mil…
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 8.0 - 47 cRonin and the inevitable seppuku 

Post#1752 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Tue Jul 11, 2023 7:56 pm

Damn that recent report feels like we’re about to get Lillard discounted and have pieces to make other moves after lol. Would be nice but we’ll see
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 8.0 - 47 cRonin and the inevitable seppuku 

Post#1753 » by DBurks2818 » Tue Jul 11, 2023 7:57 pm

Man, thanks for the reminder of that Gobert trade. "SMH" doesn't go nearly far enough.

Timberwolves receive:

• Rudy Gobert

Jazz receive:

• Malik Beasley
• Patrick Beverley
• Leandro Bolmaro
• Walker Kessler (No. 22 pick in 2022 Draft)
• Jarred Vanderbilt
• 2023 first-round pick
• 2025 first-round pick
• 2026 pick swap
• 2027 first-round pick
• 2029 first-round pick


Source: https://www.nba.com/news/jazz-wolves-rudy-gobert-trade
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 8.0 - 47 cRonin and the inevitable seppuku 

Post#1754 » by powerball1373 » Tue Jul 11, 2023 7:58 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
powerball1373 wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:Curry is better but has he won any rings Dame wouldn’t have if you swapped the 2? Maybe his most recent?


Lol that's like saying if you swapped Trae Young with Dame, he could've accomplished the same things, which he has. Trae actually won a couple games in the conference finals against the eventual champs, while Dame got has ass swept off the floor against a KD-less Warriors team. There's winners and losers in life, buddy. Steph is a winner. Dame is not.


A KD less warriors team coming off a 73-9 season without him right lol? Dame was injured that series as well but playing through it, their teams have never been on equal footing. But I’m glad you agree he’d probably have at least 3 rings if you swapped them and he more than likely wouldn’t have lost Finals MVP to Iggy. May have not **** his pants in 2016 either, you never know.


Lmao Dame can't hold Steph's jock in anything other than a rap battle. Steph even took over his hometown. Dame wishes he was Steph. :wink:
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 8.0 - 47 cRonin and the inevitable seppuku 

Post#1755 » by MorbidHEAT » Tue Jul 11, 2023 7:59 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:Damn that recent report feels like we’re about to get Lillard discounted and have pieces to make other moves after lol. Would be nice but we’ll see


Which report?
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 8.0 - 47 cRonin and the inevitable seppuku 

Post#1756 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Tue Jul 11, 2023 8:00 pm

powerball1373 wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
powerball1373 wrote:
Lol that's like saying if you swapped Trae Young with Dame, he could've accomplished the same things, which he has. Trae actually won a couple games in the conference finals against the eventual champs, while Dame got has ass swept off the floor against a KD-less Warriors team. There's winners and losers in life, buddy. Steph is a winner. Dame is not.


A KD less warriors team coming off a 73-9 season without him right lol? Dame was injured that series as well but playing through it, their teams have never been on equal footing. But I’m glad you agree he’d probably have at least 3 rings if you swapped them and he more than likely wouldn’t have lost Finals MVP to Iggy. May have not **** his pants in 2016 either, you never know.


Lmao Dame can't hold Steph's jock in anything other than a rap battle. Steph even took over his hometown. Dame wishes he was Steph. :wink:


I mean I said Steph was better and Dame probably couldn’t have pulled off what he did for his last championship, no need to get emotional
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 8.0 - 47 cRonin and the inevitable seppuku 

Post#1757 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Tue Jul 11, 2023 8:01 pm

MorbidHEAT wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:Damn that recent report feels like we’re about to get Lillard discounted and have pieces to make other moves after lol. Would be nice but we’ll see


Which report?


Where we’ve given our offer and the Blazers have been going around asking teams for more offers, probably to try and drive ours up and teams just won’t even bite on it. Crossover posted it within the last couple pages
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 8.0 - 47 cRonin and the inevitable seppuku 

Post#1758 » by greg4012 » Tue Jul 11, 2023 8:04 pm

Good dose of perspective:

https://www.reddit.com/r/heat/comments/14wuzn5/how_long_does_it_usually_take_for_a_blockbuster/

A lot of us have been getting anxious about if and when a Damian Lillard deal will be made. Stemming from the boredom that comes from that anticipation, I looked at the length of some comparable offseason trade sagas where:

A. The trade demand/catalyst started in the offseason.
B. The trade was completed before the start of the next season.

So here are 6 deals from the last ~30 years that met those parameters:

Charles Barkley

6/5/1996-6/16/1996: Barkley threatens to retire if not traded to a contender in an interview with NBC during the Finals. Expresses desire to play for the Rockets.

8/19/1996: Barkley traded to Rockets

75 to 86 days

Tracy McGrady

6/18/2004: T-Mac requests a trade from Orlando

6/30/2004: McGrady dealt to Houston

12 days

Shaquille O’Neal

6/19/2004: Shaq demands a trade

7/11/2004: Lakers agree to trade Shaq to Miami

22 days

Kevin Garnett

6/28/2007: Celtics acquire Ray Allen on draft night. (This was the turning point where KG said he was open to getting traded to Boston)

7/31/2007:Kevin Garnett traded to Boston

33 days

Kyrie Irving

7/7/2017: Kyrie Irving demands trade

8/22/2017: Kyrie is traded to the Celtics

46 days

Kawhi Leonard

6/15/2018: Kawhi demands a trade to Los Angeles

7/18/2018: Kawhi traded to Toronto

33 days

Some takeaways:

the shortest period between trade demand and trade was the T-Mac deal to Houston, which was 12 days. We are on day 11 since Lillard formally requested a trade.

the longest period between trade demand and trade was the Barkley trade (also to Houston), where he dead-ass threatened to retire if he didn’t get traded to a contender, preferably the Rockets

Two trades (Kyrie Irving and Kawhi Leonard) I was able to find specific “traded destination lists”. Neither was sent to their preferred destinations (Kawhi famously wanted to go to Los Angeles, Lakers or Clippers. Kyrie gave a list of San Antonio, Minnesota, Miami and the Knicks)

None of these trades are 1:1 identical to the Lillard situation, but the KG trade saga is probably the closest: 12 years with the same team, 8 consecutive playoff appearances and 1 conference finals appearance, teams began shifting to a rebuild while they were still on the team, neither had/has a NTC but KG had enough standing in the org to nix a draft day deal to Boston (which ironically ended up becoming the Ray Allen trade that would sell Garnett on getting traded there later in the summer)

Let me know if I missed any other blockbusters that would fit in this group! Would love to add some other cases for further discussion.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 8.0 - 47 cRonin and the inevitable seppuku 

Post#1759 » by powerball1373 » Tue Jul 11, 2023 8:08 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
powerball1373 wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
A KD less warriors team coming off a 73-9 season without him right lol? Dame was injured that series as well but playing through it, their teams have never been on equal footing. But I’m glad you agree he’d probably have at least 3 rings if you swapped them and he more than likely wouldn’t have lost Finals MVP to Iggy. May have not **** his pants in 2016 either, you never know.


Lmao Dame can't hold Steph's jock in anything other than a rap battle. Steph even took over his hometown. Dame wishes he was Steph. :wink:


I mean I said Steph was better and Dame probably couldn’t have pulled off what he did for his last championship, no need to get emotional


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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 8.0 - 47 cRonin and the inevitable seppuku 

Post#1760 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Tue Jul 11, 2023 8:12 pm

powerball1373 wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
powerball1373 wrote:
Lmao Dame can't hold Steph's jock in anything other than a rap battle. Steph even took over his hometown. Dame wishes he was Steph. :wink:


I mean I said Steph was better and Dame probably couldn’t have pulled off what he did for his last championship, no need to get emotional


No emotion, straight facts, my 3awg.


You’re steaming on the other side of your screen, it’s ok to admit it lil guy. Being a Warriors AND Heat fan seems pretty fuxkin convenient.
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