Re-Signed: The PJ Washington Jr. Thread (3yrs/$48m)

[fatlever]

There is never a plan B with our front office. And plan A changes every year.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[SWedd523]

The Plan has never changed.

"good enough"

[fatlever]

The Plan has never changed.

"good enough"

Plan A = make money for Jordan, his family and buddies

[Rich4114]

Pistons just gave Beef Stew 4/$64m

If Rui and Beef are worth $16-17m per then we better lock PJ in if it only takes $18-$19

[Bassman]

Pistons just gave Beef Stew 4/$64m

If Rui and Beef are worth $16-17m per then we better lock PJ in if it only takes $18-$19

Indeed. You can argue worth and value to a point, but the market dictates value. Hopefully Kupchuck and company realize the dangerous ledge they’re almost hanging from and sign PJ to the extension. Having both he and Miles as UFA’s, with no backup in place, means a severe overpay next year to get a FA to sign.

[Diop]

The Plan has never changed.

"good enough"

sign n trade him for Siakam then

[wilson115]

Pistons just gave Beef Stew 4/$64m

If Rui and Beef are worth $16-17m per then we better lock PJ in if it only takes $18-$19

Indeed. You can argue worth and value to a point, but the market dictates value. Hopefully Kupchuck and company realize the dangerous ledge they’re almost hanging from and sign PJ to the extension. Having both he and Miles as UFA’s, with no backup in place, means a severe overpay next year to get a FA to sign.

Well Stein says the Mavs never considered signing PJ realistic. So we're maybe down to two theories:
a) the FO's refusing to pay market ($18-$19) because there's no market. Questionable strategy given what you've laid out.
b) PJ's refusing to accept market and wants what guys like Jerami Grant signed for. Well...

https://thesmokingcuban.com/posts/dallas-mavericks-free-agency-rumors-not-pursuing-forward-pj-washington-hornets

[LofJ]

There is never a plan B with our front office. And plan A changes every year.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM Forums mobile app

A competent front office would plan to either sign and trade PJ or sign him to a contract they feel is fair market value. So naturally I'm expecting neither of those outcomes.

[Robot Rock]

There is never a plan B with our front office. And plan A changes every year.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM Forums mobile app

A competent front office would plan to either sign and trade PJ or sign him to a contract they feel is fair market value. So naturally I'm expecting neither of those outcomes.

Someone, I can't remember who, called this team "an unserious franchise" a year and change ago, and it was so accurate at the time -- and that was before crawling back to Cliff, trading a lottery pick for a late first straight-up, an injury-riddled regular season and a second colossal failure of a draft in three years.

But if you look at that quote from a 50,000-foot view, and take off the teal colored glasses for a moment (a task I deem impossible for some), it really makes sense.

"Unserious" brings back an ancient coach who, while likable, instills a gameplan that needs three layers of dust taken off it before it can be adequately discarded.

"Unserious" doesn't extend Miles Bridges when the market value was more than reasonable, and ends up with egg on their faces, per usual.

"Unserious" consistently, throughout history, lowballs key pieces and drastically overpays for inferior replacements or incumbents.

"Unserious" annually treats a SL/preseason roster spot as a graduation present for a UNC player, and "Unserious" definitely assembles a crew of "the boys" to not win, but have a hell of a time messing everything up and make some serious cash in the process.

[SWedd523]

I'd like to think I've been one of the more vocal "amateur hour" voices out there, and don't disagree with most of what your said. I do take issue with the below

"Unserious" doesn't extend Miles Bridges when the market value was more than reasonable, and ends up with egg on their faces, per usual.

We don't know what we offered, we don't know what he wanted, and we don't know what he would've accepted.

And I maintain that we should not have paid "market value" regardless, considering what he did. I also don't know how much of a market existed, considering nobody extended an offer.

There is plenty of evidence to criticize the team without manufacturing new material

[fatlever]

I was definitely banging the drum last summer about us being an unserious franchise. We are like the kids from succession. "I love you, but you are not serious people" - Logan Roy, on the Hornets.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[fatlever]

Unserious is not investing in the team, whether that is paying coaches, hiring top assistants, staff, medical teams, analytics departments, scouting staff, being cheap on travel and hotel accommodations for players on the road. It's all these kinds of things that we gave long been rumored to not take as seriously as other franchises. We are not serious about being a winning franchise, and that starts at the top.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[LofJ]

Unserious is not investing in the team, whether that is paying coaches, hiring top assistants, staff, medical teams, analytics departments, scouting staff, being cheap on travel and hotel accommodations for players on the road. It's all these kinds of things that we gave long been rumored to not take as seriously as other franchises. We are not serious about being a winning franchise, and that starts at the top.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM Forums mobile app

It's hard to argue against this given the facts. We've had one of the lowest player payrolls in the league the last several years and I think we actually have the lowest in the league at the moment. Yet, we're haggling over a few million for a two-way player we drafted and developed. At some point you actually have to be willing to invest resources and hire competent people at the salaries they demand if you want to be competitive. We haven't done that and there have been no signs that's going to change. I mean hell we haven't even heard from new ownership yet. Do they even care about building a professional organization that can win? Or is it just part of an investment portfolio? If it's the later I hope the city of Charlotte adjusts their support accordingly.

I'm honestly struggling to find a reason to support this team when it's so clear that they aren't serious people and continue to fleece fans and the city of Charlotte while lying about wanting to make the playoffs. You want to make the playoffs?!? Then open your wallet and make moves to help make that happen. If you aren't going to do that you might as well be wearing clown makeup when you talk to fans and the media.

[Rich4114]

There is never a plan B with our front office. And plan A changes every year.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM Forums mobile app

A competent front office would plan to either sign and trade PJ or sign him to a contract they feel is fair market value. So naturally I'm expecting neither of those outcomes.

Someone, I can't remember who, called this team "an unserious franchise" a year and change ago, and it was so accurate at the time -- and that was before crawling back to Cliff, trading a lottery pick for a late first straight-up, an injury-riddled regular season and a second colossal failure of a draft in three years.

But if you look at that quote from a 50,000-foot view, and take off the teal colored glasses for a moment (a task I deem impossible for some), it really makes sense.

"Unserious" brings back an ancient coach who, while likable, instills a gameplan that needs three layers of dust taken off it before it can be adequately discarded.

"Unserious" doesn't extend Miles Bridges when the market value was more than reasonable, and ends up with egg on their faces, per usual.

"Unserious" consistently, throughout history, lowballs key pieces and drastically overpays for inferior replacements or incumbents.

"Unserious" annually treats a SL/preseason roster spot as a graduation present for a UNC player, and "Unserious" definitely assembles a crew of "the boys" to not win, but have a hell of a time messing everything up and make some serious cash in the process.

I know you get a lot of flack on here for being “negative” but it’s hard to argue with any of this really. Even the Miles piece. There isn’t just one or two things that this franchise has shown to bring this all into question, it’s a series of decisions and events that continue to occur under the same leadership.

Jordan selling the team was long overdue and I suspect they won’t make wholesale changes until next offseason since the draft and free agency is the most important time of the year for the front office. My hope and expectation is they clean house and bring in a GM and Head Coach who are partners and can surround the organization with the best basketball people available top to bottom.

I mean, even without having any experience myself as a professional NBA executive I KNOW I could do a better job than MJ in surrounding myself with better basketball people and coaches simply because I wouldn’t hire any of my friends and family. I’d go loot the next in line execs from the Heat, Celtics, Warriors, Spurs, etc. the franchises that have been perennial winners. Instead we have cousins and roommates and whatever else running the show with the previous coaches assistants on the court to support the previous-previous head coach. You can’t make this stuff up. Unserious is a good word.

[KembaWalker]

im not gonna have a meltdown over this until he signs the QO. i don't really get why extending him 2 weeks ago would have made them a more competent franchise than signing him next month, as long as it gets done

[Giddf]

Also heres a gross previously unknown fact. Mitch Kupchaks son Maxwell Kupchak is a "manager of basketball operations and a scout" for the Hornets.

So its not just roommates, siblings or relatives of MJ. Mitch is complicit as well. We are throughly unserious.

[Robot Rock]

I'd like to think I've been one of the more vocal "amateur hour" voices out there, and don't disagree with most of what your said. I do take issue with the below

"Unserious" doesn't extend Miles Bridges when the market value was more than reasonable, and ends up with egg on their faces, per usual.

We don't know what we offered, we don't know what he wanted, and we don't know what he would've accepted.

And I maintain that we should not have paid "market value" regardless, considering what he did. I also don't know how much of a market existed, considering nobody extended an offer.

There is plenty of evidence to criticize the team without manufacturing new material

I'm not manufacturing a damn thing. I'm not talking about last year's offseason, either. I mean the fall of 2021, when Mitch lowballed Bridges. 4/60 was an insult, I said it was lowballing, and it proved to be. Now, if it were me, I'd never let him back in the NBA, but fortunately, the league's stance on crime is that it doesn't have one, so it's swept under the rug. And since it's swept under the rug, last year's transgression would've robbed us of one season of Miles but still having him on the payroll for less than he'll now command.

[Robot Rock]

Also heres a gross previously unknown fact. Mitch Kupchaks son Maxwell Kupchak is a "manager of basketball operations and a scout" for the Hornets.

So its not just roommates, siblings or relatives of MJ. Mitch is complicit as well. We are throughly unserious.

You don't stay this bad this long without being an unserious franchise.

[Robot Rock]

Back to PJ: the problem with keeping PJ on a slightly higher than expected number, is that it's gonna feel like an overpay and you feel like you're just not getting your money's worth 9/10 of the time.

But if you don't keep him, you're gonna feel even worse.

[Robot Rock]

Unserious is not investing in the team, whether that is paying coaches, hiring top assistants, staff, medical teams, analytics departments, scouting staff, being cheap on travel and hotel accommodations for players on the road. It's all these kinds of things that we gave long been rumored to not take as seriously as other franchises. We are not serious about being a winning franchise, and that starts at the top.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM Forums mobile app

It's hard to argue against this given the facts. We've had one of the lowest player payrolls in the league the last several years and I think we actually have the lowest in the league at the moment. Yet, we're haggling over a few million for a two-way player we drafted and developed. At some point you actually have to be willing to invest resources and hire competent people at the salaries they demand if you want to be competitive. We haven't done that and there have been no signs that's going to change. I mean hell we haven't even heard from new ownership yet. Do they even care about building a professional organization that can win? Or is it just part of an investment portfolio? If it's the later I hope the city of Charlotte adjusts their support accordingly.

I'm honestly struggling to find a reason to support this team when it's so clear that they aren't serious people and continue to fleece fans and the city of Charlotte while lying about wanting to make the playoffs. You want to make the playoffs?!? Then open your wallet and make moves to help make that happen. If you aren't going to do that you might as well be wearing clown makeup when you talk to fans and the media.

It's not about following up on your verbal expectations of becoming a playoff team, though. It's about doing just enough to give fans the illusion that you're trying (i.e. re-signing LaMelo). That's the issue: give the fanbase a crumb here and there to keep the hope going, then go back to sleep at the wheel and collect the profits.