Miami Heat Offseason Thread 8.0 - 47 cRonin and the inevitable seppuku

[powerball1373]

This peacock must display

Joe Cronin, master peacock whale hunter.

[DiegoChara]

Yes. Unless you are getting young players in their prime you can't assume its gonna work out. It didn't with Nets and may not with Suns. In case it doesn't, you need some assets around Bam to rebuild. As much as we talk we are a FA destination. It really hasn't worked out that was post Lebron. So we can't assume if this doesn't work out, that a Mitchell or Tatum gonna come here when its just Bam and 0 assets.
If this was prime Dame, then going all in makes sense. He's not.

I understand that due to age he’s likely to decline soon, but as a matter of fact he IS still currently prime Dame. Last season was the best statistical season of his career.

The fact is, the Timberwolves are super dumb, and it's not anyone else's fault. What they gave for Gobert was unrealistic and desperate. And that does not mean Dame is worth the entire team and everything not nailed down in a trade. It would be the case if this was say 24-25-year-old Dame. You can't try to sell me the world's most expensive phone, which is about to be obsolete and thus will no longer receive any support and a new version is about to come out and say "Hey it doesn't matter that it will be obsolete soon and will be out of support and the new version is coming out soon. It's good for at least a couple of months" You'd have to be a moron to agree to that type of deal. It's a two-way street.

Sure, if you believe he’s about to be obsolete tomorrow I wouldn’t trade for him. I think he’ll be all-nba caliber for the next two seasons at least. Plenty of time to help contend for the next two titles.

[MiamiLoyal926]

If it results in an NBA championship, I'm sure the fanbase will manage.

“If”

- We are still not favorites with Dame…
- Injuries to key players have been a theme around these parts(Dragic, Bam, Butler, Herro)…
- I see a 2 year window, maybe 3…
- If we get one early on, but then return to average thereafter, Heat fans will still complain about the albatross of a contract…
- We will also be frustrated with Pat because we have no picks and no youth worth a lick to trade… and we will miss on Bam’s friends and be kicking ourselves we didn’t have the foresight…

Hindsight is 20/20 especially when you ignore the street signs ahead of you!!!

I hear you, but I don't think we can confidently assess things until after the trade goes through. If the Heat manage to get Dame without giving up Caleb Martin for example, and maybe bring in a competent backup swing PG/SG at the same time, then I personally would say they're the favorites, yes. Obviously everything depends on health. But healthy? The fit is so good that yes, they'd be the faves IMO.

But yes. If. Just like your "when we see another PG fall victim to Father Time on our clock and in our books" is an 'if'.

Dollar for dollar… or better said… Dame each season vs Lowry’s frustrating last season at $28mil… then

Season 1 - age 33 - $45mil - Dame needs to perform greater than 161% better than Lowry did… if not, it’s the same or worse ROI we got from Lowry last year. (I am confident that this is totally in Dame’s realm to do!)

Season 2 - age 34 -$48mil - Dame needs to perform greater than 171% better than Lowry this last season.

Season 3 - age 35 -$58mil - Dame needs to perform greater than 207% better than Lowry this last season.

Season 4 - age 36 -$63mil - Dame needs to perform greater than 225% better than Lowry this last season.

Catch my drift… if Lowry frustrated us at his salary last year and before… then Dame needs to be held to at least the same or better performance standards that are proportional to his pay…

This is ignoring the draft and asset capital he will cost… can Dame proportionally outperform Lowry’s per dollar ROI every year of his contract? I am not sure… Father Time bats 100% and all players start their decline around mid 30s and beyond..

[powerball1373]

I mean I said Steph was better and Dame probably couldn’t have pulled off what he did for his last championship, no need to get emotional

No emotion, straight facts, my 3awg.

You’re steaming on the other side of your screen, it’s ok to admit it lil guy. Being a Warriors AND Heat fan seems pretty fuxkin convenient.

[DBurks2818]

“If”

- We are still not favorites with Dame…
- Injuries to key players have been a theme around these parts(Dragic, Bam, Butler, Herro)…
- I see a 2 year window, maybe 3…
- If we get one early on, but then return to average thereafter, Heat fans will still complain about the albatross of a contract…
- We will also be frustrated with Pat because we have no picks and no youth worth a lick to trade… and we will miss on Bam’s friends and be kicking ourselves we didn’t have the foresight…

Hindsight is 20/20 especially when you ignore the street signs ahead of you!!!

I hear you, but I don't think we can confidently assess things until after the trade goes through. If the Heat manage to get Dame without giving up Caleb Martin for example, and maybe bring in a competent backup swing PG/SG at the same time, then I personally would say they're the favorites, yes. Obviously everything depends on health. But healthy? The fit is so good that yes, they'd be the faves IMO.

But yes. If. Just like your "when we see another PG fall victim to Father Time on our clock and in our books" is an 'if'.

Dollar for dollar… or better said… Dame each season vs Lowry’s frustrating last season at $28mil… then

Season 1 - age 33 - $45mil - Dame needs to perform greater than 161% better than Lowry did… if not, it’s the same or worse ROI we got from Lowry last year. (I am confident that this is totally in Dame’s realm to do!)

Season 2 - age 34 -$48mil - Dame needs to perform greater than 171% better than Lowry this last season.

Season 3 - age 35 -$58mil - Dame needs to perform greater than 207% better than Lowry this last season.

Season 4 - age 36 -$63mil - Dame needs to perform greater than 225% better than Lowry this last season.

Catch my drift… if Lowry frustrated us at his salary last year and before… then Dame needs to be held to at least the same or better performance standards that are proportional to his pay…

This is ignoring the draft and asset capital he will cost… can Dame proportionally outperform Lowry’s per dollar ROI every year of his contract? I am not sure… Father Time bats 100% and all players start their decline around mid 30s and beyond..

I don't think it's a good idea to compare their salaries, because you're talking about different salary caps. Instead, compare the % of the cap for each player. It's still going to be high in Dame's case, but will have less of an impact than what you're saying. The only bit I agree on is that the last year will most likely be ugly, but again, if a championship was won then that's really just the cost of doing business.

Additionally, "father time" does usually strike back in a player's mid-30s, but does not hit everyone at the same point. Steve Nash for example, another PG shooter, was still an all-star at 37, which is the same age Dame will be in the last year of his contract. All of these are still ifs.

[DSoprano305]

I remember a time where we all clamored for Lowry and thought he would come in here and continue to perform his magic…

Reality set in real quick that his production at $30mil was a big negative… and you all haven’t stop complaining about it since.

Wonder what the sentiment will be when we see another PG fall victim to Father Time on our clock and in our books making more than $55mil for a couple more seasons…

Lillard is a far superior player, they’re not even close to being close.

Some of these guys are beyond delusional! Lmao. now Lillard is the same as Lowry!!!

[DSoprano305]

“If”

- We are still not favorites with Dame…
- Injuries to key players have been a theme around these parts(Dragic, Bam, Butler, Herro)…
- I see a 2 year window, maybe 3…
- If we get one early on, but then return to average thereafter, Heat fans will still complain about the albatross of a contract…
- We will also be frustrated with Pat because we have no picks and no youth worth a lick to trade… and we will miss on Bam’s friends and be kicking ourselves we didn’t have the foresight…

Hindsight is 20/20 especially when you ignore the street signs ahead of you!!!

I hear you, but I don't think we can confidently assess things until after the trade goes through. If the Heat manage to get Dame without giving up Caleb Martin for example, and maybe bring in a competent backup swing PG/SG at the same time, then I personally would say they're the favorites, yes. Obviously everything depends on health. But healthy? The fit is so good that yes, they'd be the faves IMO.

But yes. If. Just like your "when we see another PG fall victim to Father Time on our clock and in our books" is an 'if'.

Dollar for dollar… or better said… Dame each season vs Lowry’s frustrating last season at $28mil… then

Season 1 - age 33 - $45mil - Dame needs to perform greater than 161% better than Lowry did… if not, it’s the same or worse ROI we got from Lowry last year. (I am confident that this is totally in Dame’s realm to do!)

Season 2 - age 34 -$48mil - Dame needs to perform greater than 171% better than Lowry this last season.

Season 3 - age 35 -$58mil - Dame needs to perform greater than 207% better than Lowry this last season.

Season 4 - age 36 -$63mil - Dame needs to perform greater than 225% better than Lowry this last season.

Catch my drift… if Lowry frustrated us at his salary last year and before… then Dame needs to be held to at least the same or better performance standards that are proportional to his pay…

This is ignoring the draft and asset capital he will cost… can Dame proportionally outperform Lowry’s per dollar ROI every year of his contract? I am not sure… Father Time bats 100% and all players start their decline around mid 30s and beyond..

The mental gymnastics that you just perorned is beyond impressive.

[MiamiLoyal926]

If ait results in an NBA championship, I'm sure the fanbase will manage.

“If”

- We are still not favorites with Dame…
- Injuries to key players have been a theme around these parts(Dragic, Bam, Butler, Herro)…
- I see a 2 year window, maybe 3…
- If we get one early on, but then return to average thereafter, Heat fans will still complain about the albatross of a contract…
- We will also be frustrated with Pat because we have no picks and no youth worth a lick to trade… and we will miss on Bam’s friends and be kicking ourselves we didn’t have the foresight…

Hindsight is 20/20 especially when you ignore the street signs ahead of you!!!

You can be cautious about the trade and package offered and still realize that the comparison to Lowry is hyperbolic at best and absurd at worst, right?

While Dame was far better than Lowry at their peaks… you are ignoring and disputing good and rational points because of delusions and willful ignorance. I have noticed a pattern of this already with you Greg… it’s been difficult to discuss points with you when your responses tend to be very dismissive and ignore valid points to favor your bias… so I opt to move on from talking Dame with you.

I will give you this… I believe we will win a chip with Dame because he fits so well… so the if is a good chance if. I also believe we will all hate the cost of his contract towards the end like we have Lowry’s… they are not mutually exclusive.

[Rapaz]

Lillard >>>>>> Lowry ever was or will be.

Put that in your spreadsheet, print it, and smoke it.

[EMC5466]

Ramona Shelbourne is an idiot.

[insfo]

Lillard >>>>>> Lowry ever was or will be.

Put that in your spreadsheet, print it, and smoke it.

I thought we were supposed to do something else after it was printed?

[Lennyzinho]

I remember a time where we all clamored for Lowry and thought he would come in here and continue to perform his magic…

Reality set in real quick that his production at $30mil was a big negative… and you all haven’t stop complaining about it since.

Wonder what the sentiment will be when we see another PG fall victim to Father Time on our clock and in our books making more than $55mil for a couple more seasons…

Lillard after a fall off is still probably a better player than Lowry was his last year in Toronto. If he comes cool, if he doesn't thats cool too..that's where I'm at. If this is to get done I just hope it gets done soon as it would be unfair to the guys going out to drag this crap into camp.

I would hope at $45mil, he would be better than Lowry…. that still doesn’t mean it’s a good return on investment per dollar. Again… if Lowry pissed us off at $30mil… imagine Dame at $45mil, $52mil, $58mil, and $63mil…

Lowry was nasty for the Raptors, they traded him to us because they saw the decline and didn't want to pay him and had FVV ready to take over. We got him because of Jimmy and a winner and intangibles etc. And Chris Paul continuing to play at a high lvl probably earned Lowry an extra 5-10M a year since CP3 dispelled a bit of the notion that old guards fall off a cliff.

Prime Lowry was legit. 538 Raptor has him with WAR's since his 2015-2016 season of 15.8, 11.3, 12, 13.5, 9.9...
In 2020-2021 and last year of being a Raptor it was 3.3...
Not a surprise they traded him. His two years as a Heat he had WAR of 6.9 and 4.8. Solid player but not a 30M dude.

Lillard last year dropped 11.5 WAR. Even since rookie season, his lowest was 8.1. Lillard and Lowry aren't in the same realm and much different players style wise. A shooter like Lillard can stay good for a long time.

And please, when we talk about Dames contract in 2025-2026, let's not forget the cap will be up from 135 to 170-180M. We need to think of numbers as percentages of cap.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

We win a championship with dame and no one will be complaining about a contract and he’s coming off the best season of his career arguably, he’s not going to magically be a bum in 2 years unless he suffers serious injury.

[Bishop45]

I've seen Cronin's face more times than I've ever wanted to even imagine, scarred for life by Rapaz

[MiamiLoyal926]

I hear you, but I don't think we can confidently assess things until after the trade goes through. If the Heat manage to get Dame without giving up Caleb Martin for example, and maybe bring in a competent backup swing PG/SG at the same time, then I personally would say they're the favorites, yes. Obviously everything depends on health. But healthy? The fit is so good that yes, they'd be the faves IMO.

But yes. If. Just like your "when we see another PG fall victim to Father Time on our clock and in our books" is an 'if'.

Dollar for dollar… or better said… Dame each season vs Lowry’s frustrating last season at $28mil… then

Season 1 - age 33 - $45mil - Dame needs to perform greater than 161% better than Lowry did… if not, it’s the same or worse ROI we got from Lowry last year. (I am confident that this is totally in Dame’s realm to do!)

Season 2 - age 34 -$48mil - Dame needs to perform greater than 171% better than Lowry this last season.

Season 3 - age 35 -$58mil - Dame needs to perform greater than 207% better than Lowry this last season.

Season 4 - age 36 -$63mil - Dame needs to perform greater than 225% better than Lowry this last season.

Catch my drift… if Lowry frustrated us at his salary last year and before… then Dame needs to be held to at least the same or better performance standards that are proportional to his pay…

This is ignoring the draft and asset capital he will cost… can Dame proportionally outperform Lowry’s per dollar ROI every year of his contract? I am not sure… Father Time bats 100% and all players start their decline around mid 30s and beyond..

The mental gymnastics that you just perorned is beyond impressive.

Saying that this was Mental gymnastics implies I had to stretch myself to do this and is an attempt by you to diminish my point without adding value in return…

I have a BS in Mathematics and MS in IT… with a background as a Director of Technology… it’s how I operate each day. Sorry it offended you that I look at this from a high level (upper management) view… figured that was the point of real”GM”. Should I act more like a fanboy?

Because of my background… I look at projects and implementations through the lens of performance metrics, cost to operate, return on investment, and even predict and establish timelines for equipment’s lifecycle. So.. to answer your question… it’s not mental gymnastics…

It all also translates to the nba… looking at player performance metrics, their cost to acquire and operate, how it affects the overall operations, player’s potential return on investment to the team in both $ and wins, and their potential lifecycle on the team.

Since that did not meet you standards for this forum.. let me then redirect my narrative!!

Dame is awesome!! Sell the farm… we won’t regret it! He is almost as good as Steph and is worth every penny of his contract! You won’t regret it one bit! I promise!


Did I do better for you? Was that fanboy enough?

[DSoprano305]

Ramona Shelbourne is an idiot.

What did those hot dogs say now?

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Dollar for dollar… or better said… Dame each season vs Lowry’s frustrating last season at $28mil… then

Season 1 - age 33 - $45mil - Dame needs to perform greater than 161% better than Lowry did… if not, it’s the same or worse ROI we got from Lowry last year. (I am confident that this is totally in Dame’s realm to do!)

Season 2 - age 34 -$48mil - Dame needs to perform greater than 171% better than Lowry this last season.

Season 3 - age 35 -$58mil - Dame needs to perform greater than 207% better than Lowry this last season.

Season 4 - age 36 -$63mil - Dame needs to perform greater than 225% better than Lowry this last season.

Catch my drift… if Lowry frustrated us at his salary last year and before… then Dame needs to be held to at least the same or better performance standards that are proportional to his pay…

This is ignoring the draft and asset capital he will cost… can Dame proportionally outperform Lowry’s per dollar ROI every year of his contract? I am not sure… Father Time bats 100% and all players start their decline around mid 30s and beyond..

The mental gymnastics that you just perorned is beyond impressive.

Saying that this was Mental gymnastics implies I had to stretch myself to do this and is an attempt by you to diminish my point without adding value in return…

I have a BS in Mathematics and MS in IT… with a background as a Director of Technology… it’s how I operate each day. Sorry it offended you that I look at this from a high level (upper management) view… figured that was the point of real”GM”. Should I act more like a fanboy?

Because of my background… I look at projects and implementations through the lens of performance metrics, cost to operate, return on investment, and even predict and establish timelines for equipment’s lifecycle. So.. to answer your question… it’s not mental gymnastics…

All translates to the nba… looking at player performance metrics, their cost to acquire and operate, how it affects the overall operations, player’s potential return on investment to the team in both $ and wins, and their potential lifecycle on the team.

Since that did not meet you standards for this forum.. let me then redirect my narrative!!

Dame is awesome!! Sell the farm… we won’t regret it! He is almost as good as Steph and is worth every penny of his contract! You won’t regret it one bit! I promise!


Did I do better for you? Was that fanboy enough?

I used to do some similar stuff to that when I was a hard working man, nice!

[EMC5466]

Read on Twitter

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[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

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Don’t forget Dame wants to go to the Spurs too!

[powerball1373]

Saying that this was Mental gymnastics implies I had to stretch myself to do this and is an attempt by you to diminish my point without adding value in return…

I have a BS in Mathematics and MS in IT… with a background as a Director of Technology… it’s how I operate each day. Sorry it offended you that I look at this from a high level (upper management) view… figured that was the point of real”GM”. Should I act more like a fanboy?

Because of my background… I look at projects and implementations through the lens of performance metrics, cost to operate, return on investment, and even predict and establish timelines for equipment’s lifecycle. So.. to answer your question… it’s not mental gymnastics…

All translates to the nba… looking at player performance metrics, their cost to acquire and operate, how it affects the overall operations, player’s potential return on investment to the team in both $ and wins, and their potential lifecycle on the team.

Since that did not meet you standards for this forum.. let me then redirect my narrative!!

Dame is awesome!! Sell the farm… we won’t regret it! He is almost as good as Steph and is worth every penny of his contract! You won’t regret it one bit! I promise!


Did I do better for you? Was that fanboy enough?

Yes, you'll get better reactions if you stick to the fanboy-homer-with-blinders-on script. Ain't nobody got time fo' reason or logic hurr.

Either that or post stuff like

Spoiler:

Joe Cronin/fat girl photoshops.