Hal14 wrote:I'm gonna have to take a look at some John Wall film from this past season.
If we are gonna keep JB and not trade him. If we're not gonna get Dame. If we're gonna have 3 high usage, high volume scorers, and none of them have an assist % of 25 or higher...and our highest assist % guy on the team right now is Brogdon, at just 21.5%.
And if we know that the last 13 teams to win the NBA title, all of them had a guy with an assist rate of 30% or higher....
Well, that tells me we need to add another playmaker. And we only have 12 guys currently on a guaranteed contract.
Spoiler:
Hal14 wrote:A quick glance at John Wall's stats.... -35% assist rate this past season -He's played 11 seasons. He's had an assist rate of 35% or higher in EVERY one of those 11 seasons. -He's had an assist rate of 46% for a full season, 3 different times. He played in 77+ games in each of those 3 seasons.
He might be washed up. But last season (in addition to the 35% assist rate) he also averaged 11 PPG, in 22 MPG.
His job would be pretty simple. Come off the bench for about 20-22 MPG, and be a facilitator, a distributor. Push the pace, bend the defense, drive into the lane and drop dimes EVERYWHERE.
Only 30% from 3 last season. 32% for his career. If you add Wall, you would want to flip Pritchard - he'll throw a hissy fit if we add another guard and bury him in the rotation again.
So, if you sign Wall to the minimum and trade Pritchard, you'd want to add another shooter off the bench. Because not only are you adding a non-shooter (wall) and losing a shooter (Pritchard), but we've also added some other guys off the bench who are suspect shooters (walsh, brissett, banton) and lost a good shooter off the bench (Grant).
The shooter we add, it could be in the same deal where we trade Pritchard. But that might be hard to find the right deal that works for both teams. More likely, we trade Pritchard for a small TPE and/or draft compensation, then sign some free agent who can shoot - preferable with some size as well (like perhaps Terence Davis, or perhaps Dzanan Musa from overseas) or perhaps you swing a separate deal, using the Grant TPE and get saddiq Bey (rumors are saying that we're interested in trading for him).
Brogdon's 3 prior years in Indy, his assist % was 26.9%, 25.7%, and 33.8%. Team and Brogdon should be able to get together. I still say Brogdon-Jaylen led unit should be a thing. I'll point out that TJ Warren was the leading scorer in that 33.8% season. And Brogdon is reunited with Brissett. And Al will, imo, be on the 2nd unit (Pacers equivalent Myles Turner).
So, I think that should be a focus of the coaches message. Brogdon-Pritchard-Jaylen-Brissett-Horford is a unit I think works and gets Brogdon and Jaylen the scoring focus that will be important to create for them to buy in.
And, Tatum should be encouraged to see if he can break through the 21% he's recently plateaued. He's basically jumped from 15% to 20% (the last 3 years), can he get at least to the 25% range?
Giannis is in the 30's. Steph in the 30's, Lowry in the 30's (Toronto champ model reference), Jokic in the 40's, even Embiid has been 23% last 2 years. If Tatum wants to talk real MVP consideration, he needs to push through and grow here too.
Member of the following organizations: YPSS: Yes, Pritchard Should Start RWIT: Rebounding Wing Is a Thing AAH: All About Hugo
Hal14 wrote:I'm gonna have to take a look at some John Wall film from this past season.
If we are gonna keep JB and not trade him. If we're not gonna get Dame. If we're gonna have 3 high usage, high volume scorers, and none of them have an assist % of 25 or higher...and our highest assist % guy on the team right now is Brogdon, at just 21.5%.
And if we know that the last 13 teams to win the NBA title, all of them had a guy with an assist rate of 30% or higher....
Well, that tells me we need to add another playmaker. And we only have 12 guys currently on a guaranteed contract so we could sign another guy.
A quick glance at John Wall's stats.... -35% assist rate this past season -He's played 11 seasons. He's had an assist rate of 35% or higher in EVERY one of those 11 seasons. -He's had an assist rate of 46% for a full season, 3 different times. He played in 77+ games in each of those 3 seasons.
He might be washed up. But last season (in addition to the 35% assist rate) he also averaged 11 PPG, in 22 MPG.
His job would be pretty simple. Come off the bench for about 20-22 MPG, and be a facilitator, a distributor. Push the pace, bend the defense, drive into the lane and drop dimes EVERYWHERE.
Only 30% from 3 last season. 32% for his career. If you add Wall, you would want to flip Pritchard - he'll throw a hissy fit if we add another guard and bury him in the rotation again.
So, if you sign Wall to the minimum and trade Pritchard, you'd want to add another shooter off the bench. Because not only are you adding a non-shooter (wall) and losing a shooter (Pritchard), but we've also added some other guys off the bench who are suspect shooters (walsh, brissett, banton) and lost a good shooter off the bench (Grant).
The shooter we add, it could be in the same deal where we trade Pritchard. But that might be hard to find the right deal that works for both teams. More likely, we trade Pritchard for a small TPE and/or draft compensation, then sign some free agent who can shoot - preferable with some size as well (like perhaps Terence Davis, or perhaps Dzanan Musa from overseas) or perhaps you swing a separate deal, using the Grant TPE and get saddiq Bey (rumors are saying that we're interested in trading for him).
Or perhaps you flip Brogdon, then sign Wall (so there's less confusion about roles and who THE backup PG is between Wall and Brogdon) and just keep Pritchard as a spark plug, energy shooter off the bench. Defensively though, that could get scary with Wall + Pritchard (or even Brogdon + Pritchard) out there together..and then that also leaves the question, what are you getting in return for Brogdon?
Hal14 wrote:I'm gonna have to take a look at some John Wall film from this past season.
If we are gonna keep JB and not trade him. If we're not gonna get Dame. If we're gonna have 3 high usage, high volume scorers, and none of them have an assist % of 25 or higher...and our highest assist % guy on the team right now is Brogdon, at just 21.5%.
And if we know that the last 13 teams to win the NBA title, all of them had a guy with an assist rate of 30% or higher....
Well, that tells me we need to add another playmaker. And we only have 12 guys currently on a guaranteed contract.
A quick glance at John Wall's stats.... -35% assist rate this past season -He's played 11 seasons. He's had an assist rate of 35% or higher in EVERY one of those 11 seasons. -He's had an assist rate of 46% for a full season, 3 different times. He played in 77+ games in each of those 3 seasons.
He might be washed up. But last season (in addition to the 35% assist rate) he also averaged 11 PPG, in 22 MPG.
His job would be pretty simple. Come off the bench for about 20-22 MPG, and be a facilitator, a distributor. Push the pace, bend the defense, drive into the lane and drop dimes EVERYWHERE.
Only 30% from 3 last season. 32% for his career. If you add Wall, you would want to flip Pritchard - he'll throw a hissy fit if we add another guard and bury him in the rotation again.
So, if you sign Wall to the minimum and trade Pritchard, you'd want to add another shooter off the bench. Because not only are you adding a non-shooter (wall) and losing a shooter (Pritchard), but we've also added some other guys off the bench who are suspect shooters (walsh, brissett, banton) and lost a good shooter off the bench (Grant).
The shooter we add, it could be in the same deal where we trade Pritchard. But that might be hard to find the right deal that works for both teams. More likely, we trade Pritchard for a small TPE and/or draft compensation, then sign some free agent who can shoot - preferable with some size as well (like perhaps Terence Davis, or perhaps Dzanan Musa from overseas) or perhaps you swing a separate deal, using the Grant TPE and get saddiq Bey (rumors are saying that we're interested in trading for him).
Or perhaps you flip Brogdon, then sign Wall (so there's less confusion about roles and who THE backup PG is between Wall and Brogdon) and just keep Pritchard as a spark plug, energy shooter off the bench. Defensively though, that could get scary with Wall + Pritchard (or even Brogdon + Pritchard) out there together..and then that also leaves the question, what are you getting in return for Brogdon?
Sadly, Wall couldn't even stay healthy for the Clippers at 22 minutes a game. Taking him down to 15? Ehh... I don't love it.
Trading Brogs for a shooter like say, Powell, straight up and signing Wall is interesting but he's so unreliable, even more so than Malcolm and that's saying something.
Oh, I didn't know that Wall got hurt last season. I thought he was healthy (for the most part) with the Clippers, but then they traded him to get Eric Gordon, and then Houston waived him.
I think Wall could potentially play about 20-22 MPG for us.
Yeah, that could work, flipping Brogdon for Powell and then signing Wall.
Nothing wrong with having a different opinion - as long as it's done respectfully. It'd be lame if we all agreed on everything
Derrick White had an assist percentage of 27.5% in the 11-game stretch Marcus Smart missed. As much as I'm bummed that Smart is gone, I'm ready for and looking forward to the Derrick White era of the Cs.
20/6/5 in 35 mpg on 49/44/89 splits in those 11 games.
Hal14 wrote:I'm gonna have to take a look at some John Wall film from this past season.
If we are gonna keep JB and not trade him. If we're not gonna get Dame. If we're gonna have 3 high usage, high volume scorers, and none of them have an assist % of 25 or higher...and our highest assist % guy on the team right now is Brogdon, at just 21.5%.
And if we know that the last 13 teams to win the NBA title, all of them had a guy with an assist rate of 30% or higher....
Well, that tells me we need to add another playmaker. And we only have 12 guys currently on a guaranteed contract.
Spoiler:
Hal14 wrote:A quick glance at John Wall's stats.... -35% assist rate this past season -He's played 11 seasons. He's had an assist rate of 35% or higher in EVERY one of those 11 seasons. -He's had an assist rate of 46% for a full season, 3 different times. He played in 77+ games in each of those 3 seasons.
He might be washed up. But last season (in addition to the 35% assist rate) he also averaged 11 PPG, in 22 MPG.
His job would be pretty simple. Come off the bench for about 20-22 MPG, and be a facilitator, a distributor. Push the pace, bend the defense, drive into the lane and drop dimes EVERYWHERE.
Only 30% from 3 last season. 32% for his career. If you add Wall, you would want to flip Pritchard - he'll throw a hissy fit if we add another guard and bury him in the rotation again.
So, if you sign Wall to the minimum and trade Pritchard, you'd want to add another shooter off the bench. Because not only are you adding a non-shooter (wall) and losing a shooter (Pritchard), but we've also added some other guys off the bench who are suspect shooters (walsh, brissett, banton) and lost a good shooter off the bench (Grant).
The shooter we add, it could be in the same deal where we trade Pritchard. But that might be hard to find the right deal that works for both teams. More likely, we trade Pritchard for a small TPE and/or draft compensation, then sign some free agent who can shoot - preferable with some size as well (like perhaps Terence Davis, or perhaps Dzanan Musa from overseas) or perhaps you swing a separate deal, using the Grant TPE and get saddiq Bey (rumors are saying that we're interested in trading for him).
Brogdon's 3 prior years in Indy, his assist % was 26.9%, 25.7%, and 33.8%. Team and Brogdon should be able to get together. I still say Brogdon-Jaylen led unit should be a thing. I'll point out that TJ Warren was the leading scorer in that 33.8% season. And Brogdon is reunited with Brissett. And Al will, imo, be on the 2nd unit (Pacers equivalent Myles Turner).
So, I think that should be a focus of the coaches message. Brogdon-Pritchard-Jaylen-Brissett-Horford is a unit I think works and gets Brogdon and Jaylen the scoring focus that will be important to create for them to buy in.
And, Tatum should be encouraged to see if he can break through the 21% he's recently plateaued. He's basically jumped from 15% to 20% (the last 3 years), can he get at least to the 25% range?
Giannis is in the 30's. Steph in the 30's, Lowry in the 30's (Toronto champ model reference), Jokic in the 40's, even Embiid has been 23% last 2 years. If Tatum wants to talk real MVP consideration, he needs to push through and grow here too.
Maybe.
Ideally, yeah you keep Brogdon and have him adjust his game to be more of a distributor who can also pick his spots here and there for driving/finishing and hitting some 3's to keep defenses honest - especially now that we have 3 legit 20 PPG scorers (last year there was only 2 so he needed to score more).
But 1 of those seasons in Indy he only played 36 games. And that 1 season he had at 33% assist rate looks like an outlier, compared to the rest of the seasons in his career where he was in the 16-25 range. Wall meanwhile, his lowest season was 35% and all 11 seasons was 35% or higher.
So Wall does appear to be on another level as a playmaker. And there's no guarantee Brogdon will adjust his playing style this season with the Celtics compared to last season - he might be around 21% again. Wall has never been below 35%.
Of course, Brogdon is the much better shooter. But Brogdon also makes way more $..
I suppose you could possibly have both Wall and Brogdon on the team (you'd definitely have to ship Pritchard out). But that might get messy, like how it was messy last season with White, Brogdon and Smart all on the same team, cramping each other's style..
Nothing wrong with having a different opinion - as long as it's done respectfully. It'd be lame if we all agreed on everything
zoyathedestroya wrote:Derrick White had an assist percentage of 27.5% in the 11-game stretch Marcus Smart missed. As much as I'm bummed that Smart is gone, I'm ready for and looking forward to the Derrick White era of the Cs.
20/6/5 in 35 mpg on 49/44/89 splits in those 11 games.
Yeah. Question is, who's the backup PG? Perhaps it's Wall for 20 MPG or so. Especially if Brogdon is moved in a deal..
Nothing wrong with having a different opinion - as long as it's done respectfully. It'd be lame if we all agreed on everything
Ben-N1ce wrote:Wall is a bum. Clippers need him and didn't even bother.
The Clippers don't know what the hell they're doing. Never won a championship, never been to an NBA finals. Most of their moves make very little sense.
Nothing wrong with having a different opinion - as long as it's done respectfully. It'd be lame if we all agreed on everything
zoyathedestroya wrote:Derrick White had an assist percentage of 27.5% in the 11-game stretch Marcus Smart missed. As much as I'm bummed that Smart is gone, I'm ready for and looking forward to the Derrick White era of the Cs.
20/6/5 in 35 mpg on 49/44/89 splits in those 11 games.
Yeah. Question is, who's the backup PG? Perhaps it's Wall for 20 MPG or so. Especially if Brogdon is moved in a deal..
You already answered your question. Brogdon. Brogdon is the backup PG and shouldn't be moved unless for a deal Brad can't turn down or an obvious upgrade. It's just a matter of rewiring Brogdon's thinking. Need more of the Indy Brogdon than a sixth man microwave scorer type. He can do either imo. That's up to coaching to define his role. In the games he misses, it's Pritchard. Banton is also an option if it's just for the regular season.
zoyathedestroya wrote:Derrick White had an assist percentage of 27.5% in the 11-game stretch Marcus Smart missed. As much as I'm bummed that Smart is gone, I'm ready for and looking forward to the Derrick White era of the Cs.
20/6/5 in 35 mpg on 49/44/89 splits in those 11 games.
Yeah. Question is, who's the backup PG? Perhaps it's Wall for 20 MPG or so. Especially if Brogdon is moved in a deal..
You already answered your question. Brogdon. Brogdon is the backup PG and shouldn't be moved unless for a deal Brad can't turn down or an obvious upgrade. It's just a matter of rewiring Brogdon's thinking. Need more of the Indy Brogdon than a sixth man microwave scorer type. He can do either imo. That's up to coaching to define his role. In the games he misses, it's Pritchard. Banton is also an option if it's just for the regular season.
Brogdons starting imo.
If for some reason he isnt it could be Al. I want timelord, but he doesnt fit joes plan and horford should come off bench
zoyathedestroya wrote:Derrick White had an assist percentage of 27.5% in the 11-game stretch Marcus Smart missed. As much as I'm bummed that Smart is gone, I'm ready for and looking forward to the Derrick White era of the Cs.
20/6/5 in 35 mpg on 49/44/89 splits in those 11 games.
Yeah. Question is, who's the backup PG? Perhaps it's Wall for 20 MPG or so. Especially if Brogdon is moved in a deal..
You already answered your question. Brogdon. Brogdon is the backup PG and shouldn't be moved unless for a deal Brad can't turn down or an obvious upgrade. It's just a matter of rewiring Brogdon's thinking. Need more of the Indy Brogdon than a sixth man microwave scorer type. He can do either imo. That's up to coaching to define his role. In the games he misses, it's Pritchard. Banton is also an option if it's just for the regular season.
I didn’t really see an offensive game plan from Mazulla all season. I expect with the new coaching additions, that will change. We may need Brogdon in the same role as our first scoring option off the bench. If we split up the Tatum/Jaylen/KP minutes and he plays with 2 of them, he could play more as a facilitator.
We didn’t have a KP last year so I expect us to try to keep 2 of Brogdon/Tatum/Jaylen/KP on the floor at all times since those are all guys that can create their own shots. Regardless, I think Mazulla and the new coaches need to get back to a more ball-movement/PNR oriented offense that isn’t 100% reliant on 3’s. The game plan last year seemed to be all iso drive and dish for tough finishes or kick outs.
Hal14 wrote:Yeah. Question is, who's the backup PG? Perhaps it's Wall for 20 MPG or so. Especially if Brogdon is moved in a deal..
You already answered your question. Brogdon. Brogdon is the backup PG and shouldn't be moved unless for a deal Brad can't turn down or an obvious upgrade. It's just a matter of rewiring Brogdon's thinking. Need more of the Indy Brogdon than a sixth man microwave scorer type. He can do either imo. That's up to coaching to define his role. In the games he misses, it's Pritchard. Banton is also an option if it's just for the regular season.
I didn’t really see an offensive game plan from Mazulla all season. I expect with the new coaching additions, that will change. We may need Brogdon in the same role as our first scoring option off the bench. If we split up the Tatum/Jaylen/KP minutes and he plays with 2 of them, he could play more as a facilitator.
We didn’t have a KP last year so I expect us to try to keep 2 of Brogdon/Tatum/Jaylen/KP on the floor at all times since those are all guys that can create their own shots. Regardless, I think Mazulla and the new coaches need to get back to a more ball-movement/PNR oriented offense that isn’t 100% reliant on 3’s. The game plan last year seemed to be all iso drive and dish for tough finishes or kick outs.
KP/Timelord double screen for Tatum is going to be an epic play.
Member of the following organizations: YPSS: Yes, Pritchard Should Start RWIT: Rebounding Wing Is a Thing AAH: All About Hugo
Hal14 wrote:Yeah. Question is, who's the backup PG? Perhaps it's Wall for 20 MPG or so. Especially if Brogdon is moved in a deal..
You already answered your question. Brogdon. Brogdon is the backup PG and shouldn't be moved unless for a deal Brad can't turn down or an obvious upgrade. It's just a matter of rewiring Brogdon's thinking. Need more of the Indy Brogdon than a sixth man microwave scorer type. He can do either imo. That's up to coaching to define his role. In the games he misses, it's Pritchard. Banton is also an option if it's just for the regular season.
Brogdons starting imo.
If for some reason he isnt it could be Al. I want timelord, but he doesnt fit joes plan and horford should come off bench
Hal14 wrote:I'm gonna have to take a look at some John Wall film from this past season.
If we are gonna keep JB and not trade him. If we're not gonna get Dame. If we're gonna have 3 high usage, high volume scorers, and none of them have an assist % of 25 or higher...and our highest assist % guy on the team right now is Brogdon, at just 21.5%.
And if we know that the last 13 teams to win the NBA title, all of them had a guy with an assist rate of 30% or higher....
Well, that tells me we need to add another playmaker. And we only have 12 guys currently on a guaranteed contract.
A quick glance at John Wall's stats.... -35% assist rate this past season -He's played 11 seasons. He's had an assist rate of 35% or higher in EVERY one of those 11 seasons. -He's had an assist rate of 46% for a full season, 3 different times. He played in 77+ games in each of those 3 seasons.
He might be washed up. But last season (in addition to the 35% assist rate) he also averaged 11 PPG, in 22 MPG.
His job would be pretty simple. Come off the bench for about 20-22 MPG, and be a facilitator, a distributor. Push the pace, bend the defense, drive into the lane and drop dimes EVERYWHERE.
Only 30% from 3 last season. 32% for his career. If you add Wall, you would want to flip Pritchard - he'll throw a hissy fit if we add another guard and bury him in the rotation again.
So, if you sign Wall to the minimum and trade Pritchard, you'd want to add another shooter off the bench. Because not only are you adding a non-shooter (wall) and losing a shooter (Pritchard), but we've also added some other guys off the bench who are suspect shooters (walsh, brissett, banton) and lost a good shooter off the bench (Grant).
The shooter we add, it could be in the same deal where we trade Pritchard. But that might be hard to find the right deal that works for both teams. More likely, we trade Pritchard for a small TPE and/or draft compensation, then sign some free agent who can shoot - preferable with some size as well (like perhaps Terence Davis, or perhaps Dzanan Musa from overseas) or perhaps you swing a separate deal, using the Grant TPE and get saddiq Bey (rumors are saying that we're interested in trading for him).
Or perhaps you flip Brogdon, then sign Wall (so there's less confusion about roles and who THE backup PG is between Wall and Brogdon) and just keep Pritchard as a spark plug, energy shooter off the bench. Defensively though, that could get scary with Wall + Pritchard (or even Brogdon + Pritchard) out there together..and then that also leaves the question, what are you getting in return for Brogdon?
Sadly, Wall couldn't even stay healthy for the Clippers at 22 minutes a game. Taking him down to 15? Ehh... I don't love it.
Trading Brogs for a shooter like say, Powell, straight up and signing Wall is interesting but he's so unreliable, even more so than Malcolm and that's saying something.
Oh, I didn't know that Wall got hurt last season. I thought he was healthy (for the most part) with the Clippers, but then they traded him to get Eric Gordon, and then Houston waived him.
I think Wall could potentially play about 20-22 MPG for us.
Yeah, that could work, flipping Brogdon for Powell and then signing Wall.
John Wall in the Blake role as a guard isn't as crazy as it sounds, but you've got to make it absolutely clear to him that he's not playing most nights (like Blake)
zoyathedestroya wrote:You already answered your question. Brogdon. Brogdon is the backup PG and shouldn't be moved unless for a deal Brad can't turn down or an obvious upgrade. It's just a matter of rewiring Brogdon's thinking. Need more of the Indy Brogdon than a sixth man microwave scorer type. He can do either imo. That's up to coaching to define his role. In the games he misses, it's Pritchard. Banton is also an option if it's just for the regular season.
Brogdons starting imo.
If for some reason he isnt it could be Al. I want timelord, but he doesnt fit joes plan and horford should come off bench
GoCeltics123 wrote:John Wall in the Blake role as a guard isn't as crazy as it sounds, but you've got to make it absolutely clear to him that he's not playing most nights (like Blake)
Major difference. Blake has an awesome personality, he’s funny, and he brings people together. Energy riser. Wall is not that.
