Trade/Free Agency Thread, part Ocho, 2023-24

[165bows]

If there is an option of getting Siakam reasonably cheap I think it would be a big brain move. Extend both him and Brown and then see what happens. One will have to be moved next year, but both eligible to be traded summer 2024 and should net you solid returns. And your team this year will be absolutely amazing.

White/ Brown/ Tatum/ Siakam/ KP

That's and all-star game type lineup and you've still got a reasonable bench.


BOS in: Siakam, K. Martin Jr.
BOS out: Brogdon, R. Williams, Champagnie, 2024 GSW first, BOS 2026 first

Get Siakam for a superteam:

White/ Banton
Brown/ Pritchard
Tatum/ Hauser/ K. Martin Jr.
Siakam/ Brissete/ Walsh
KP/ Horford/ Kornet

TOR in: GSW 2024 first, BOS 2026 first, IND 2024 first, B. Hyland, Covington, M. Morris,
TOR out: Siakam

3 firsts and expiring salary for the expiring Siakam. Gotta imagine they can do better than this, but maybe if C's throw in some swaps as well. It beats that IND offer at least, but still would be surprised if they don't do better.

IND in: R. Williams
IND out: IND 2024 first, Theis

Pacers get a upside C that pairs really well with Turner. Can play them both together and also have Timelord back up Myles. Get off Theis money too.

LAC in: Brogdon, Theis
LAC out: Covington, M. Morris, K. Martin Jr., B. Hyland

LAC bring in Brogdon to either start or be their 6th man. Theis is expensive C depth but expiring next year and they don't take on extra money this year. Only costs them Martin Jr. and Hyland, probably too good a deal for them.

I think Siakam is a guy where people don’t want to pay what he’s going to expect to get. People have that criticism of Jaylen but I think it’s even more so with PS not less.

[ddb]

No thanks on Siakam. He's in the same boat as Jaylen (sorta) in terms of wanting a max extension. He's entering the last year of his deal. He also is a bit overrated IMO. I can't imagine Brad is involved on that one.

[165bows]

No thanks on Siakam. He's in the same boat as Jaylen (sorta) in terms of wanting a max extension. He's entering the last year of his deal. He also is a bit overrated IMO. I can't imagine Brad is involved on that one.

Also two years older. Don’t want a non-elite guy making max money at 33. JB would be 31 but he’ll prob opt out at 30, before he’s really dropped off. Guys that don’t shoot well at 33 aren’t great bets.

[ddb]

No thanks on Siakam. He's in the same boat as Jaylen (sorta) in terms of wanting a max extension. He's entering the last year of his deal. He also is a bit overrated IMO. I can't imagine Brad is involved on that one.

Also two years older. Don’t want a non-elite guy making max money at 33. JB would be 31 but he’ll prob opt out at 30, before he’s really dropped off. Guys that don’t shoot well at 33 aren’t great bets.

Also, Jaylen is simply better than Siakam.

Celtics don't need to make their seismic trade this offseason. I know as fans we'd love to see the finished product ASAP. But it could be next offseason. Jaylen/Brogdon/4 1st rd picks for Giannis if he wants out as an example. Just thinking out loud.

[Hal14]

No thanks on Siakam. He's in the same boat as Jaylen (sorta) in terms of wanting a max extension. He's entering the last year of his deal. He also is a bit overrated IMO. I can't imagine Brad is involved on that one.

Also two years older. Don’t want a non-elite guy making max money at 33. JB would be 31 but he’ll prob opt out at 30, before he’s really dropped off. Guys that don’t shoot well at 33 aren’t great bets.

33? Who cares what he's doing at 33? Siakam is 29 right now. It's all about maximizing a 2-3 year window right now to win a title with Tatum entering his prime - so he doesn't jump ship in 2-3 years.

[BK_2020]

No thanks on Siakam. He's in the same boat as Jaylen (sorta) in terms of wanting a max extension. He's entering the last year of his deal. He also is a bit overrated IMO. I can't imagine Brad is involved on that one.

Also two years older. Don’t want a non-elite guy making max money at 33. JB would be 31 but he’ll prob opt out at 30, before he’s really dropped off. Guys that don’t shoot well at 33 aren’t great bets.

Also, Jaylen is simply better than Siakam.

Celtics don't need to make their seismic trade this offseason. I know as fans we'd love to see the finished product ASAP. But it could be next offseason. Jaylen/Brogdon/4 1st rd picks for Giannis if he wants out as an example. Just thinking out loud.

I don't think it's clear cut that Jaylen is better.
Siakam is tiers above Jaylen defensively, plus there's just way more value in a guy who has the length and strength to defend up to 5. Jaylen is too weak to defend 4s and too slow to defend 2s. He is one of the least versatile defenders in the league.
Jaylen gives you more volume scoring on better efficiency, but it's arguable that Jaylen's efficiency would plummet if he was playing the lead scorer role on any team, and would absolutely crater if he was playing that role on the Raptors which has pretty much zero creators and awful spacing.
Siakam is a good passer and playmaker. Jaylen is among the league's worst in that particular area.
Jaylen is younger but his aging curve will be worse than Siakam's. Jaylen is significantly smaller, relies on athleticism which has been tapering off pretty noticeably, and Siakam has also been more durable.
Jaylen is looking for a supermax while Siakam wouldn't qualify.

[cloverleaf]

Neither Siakam nor JB is worth the supermax.

Porzi is better than either of them and a bargain to boot.

[Slartibartfast]

Siakam is a better fit offensively. Does so much of his work from the middle of the floor and creates a lot of shots for others from that space. With Tatum on the wings and Porzingis at the elbows I can see more synergy there.

But it would make us too frontcourt heavy. Siakam needs to play PF to be at his best offensively. Which would mean starting both Brogdon and White and leaving us awfully skimpy on bench guard play.

Might still do it though. The long-term fit with Tatum and to a lesser extent Porzingis is better. A badly needed dose of playmaking.

[165bows]

No thanks on Siakam. He's in the same boat as Jaylen (sorta) in terms of wanting a max extension. He's entering the last year of his deal. He also is a bit overrated IMO. I can't imagine Brad is involved on that one.

Also two years older. Don’t want a non-elite guy making max money at 33. JB would be 31 but he’ll prob opt out at 30, before he’s really dropped off. Guys that don’t shoot well at 33 aren’t great bets.

33? Who cares what he's doing at 33? Siakam is 29 right now. It's all about maximizing a 2-3 year window right now to win a title with Tatum entering his prime - so he doesn't jump ship in 2-3 years.

Who cares? You haven't read 400 pages of histrionic posts about Jaylen's huge impending contract? Lots of people obviously.

I mean, do we even know we are better with PS than with Brogdon, Al/Rob, and whatever they do with their other picks? On a per possession basis PS doesn't even substantially outperform Brogdon even and is going to cost at least one other rotation player from the front court because of his salary plus other assets/depth.

[CelticFaninLBC]

No thanks on Siakam. He's in the same boat as Jaylen (sorta) in terms of wanting a max extension. He's entering the last year of his deal. He also is a bit overrated IMO. I can't imagine Brad is involved on that one.

Also two years older. Don’t want a non-elite guy making max money at 33. JB would be 31 but he’ll prob opt out at 30, before he’s really dropped off. Guys that don’t shoot well at 33 aren’t great bets.

33? Who cares what he's doing at 33? Siakam is 29 right now. It's all about maximizing a 2-3 year window right now to win a title with Tatum entering his prime - so he doesn't jump ship in 2-3 years.

I suspect Tatum's taking a longer view than 2-3 years. Hence why they either keep Jaylen long-term or deal Jaylen for someone like Donovan Mitchell next summer. if the team falls short of a title next year

[165bows]

Also two years older. Don’t want a non-elite guy making max money at 33. JB would be 31 but he’ll prob opt out at 30, before he’s really dropped off. Guys that don’t shoot well at 33 aren’t great bets.

Also, Jaylen is simply better than Siakam.

Celtics don't need to make their seismic trade this offseason. I know as fans we'd love to see the finished product ASAP. But it could be next offseason. Jaylen/Brogdon/4 1st rd picks for Giannis if he wants out as an example. Just thinking out loud.

I don't think it's clear cut that Jaylen is better.
Siakam is tiers above Jaylen defensively, plus there's just way more value in a guy who has the length and strength to defend up to 5. Jaylen is too weak to defend 4s and too slow to defend 2s. He is one of the least versatile defenders in the league.
Jaylen gives you more volume scoring on better efficiency, but it's arguable that Jaylen's efficiency would plummet if he was playing the lead scorer role on any team, and would absolutely crater if he was playing that role on the Raptors which has pretty much zero creators and awful spacing.
Siakam is a good passer and playmaker. Jaylen is among the league's worst in that particular area.
Jaylen is younger but his aging curve will be worse than Siakam's. Jaylen is significantly smaller, relies on athleticism which has been tapering off pretty noticeably, and Siakam has also been more durable.
Jaylen is looking for a supermax while Siakam wouldn't qualify.

Where does this universal belief that Siakam is great defensively come from? I see it posted all the time and am willing to be convinced - I just don't see it at all.

[Hal14]

No thanks on Siakam. He's in the same boat as Jaylen (sorta) in terms of wanting a max extension. He's entering the last year of his deal. He also is a bit overrated IMO. I can't imagine Brad is involved on that one.

Also two years older. Don’t want a non-elite guy making max money at 33. JB would be 31 but he’ll prob opt out at 30, before he’s really dropped off. Guys that don’t shoot well at 33 aren’t great bets.

Also, Jaylen is simply better than Siakam.

Celtics don't need to make their seismic trade this offseason. I know as fans we'd love to see the finished product ASAP. But it could be next offseason. Jaylen/Brogdon/4 1st rd picks for Giannis if he wants out as an example. Just thinking out loud.

Go for it now, while you have the chance. Nothing is guaranteed down the road - there's no guarantee that Giannis asks out. And if he does ask out, he's probably going to Brooklyn, miami, golden st, clippers, lakers or phoenix like every other superstar does. If we're talking about trading for him in 2024, that means we're getting him for a playoff run in 2025..Giannis just had knee surgery, so who knows, he might not be this type of player anymore in 2025..

And Siakam is better than JB, IMO. Siakam is a much better playmaker (had 25 games last season with 7+ assists, compared to just 5 games for JB). Siakam had a 3.1 BPM, compared to 1.3 for JB. Siakam has more size, plays better team ball, higher IQ, does a better job of getting to the FT line, doesn't settle for 3's as much..and is less redundant with Tatum..

[Hal14]

Also two years older. Don’t want a non-elite guy making max money at 33. JB would be 31 but he’ll prob opt out at 30, before he’s really dropped off. Guys that don’t shoot well at 33 aren’t great bets.

33? Who cares what he's doing at 33? Siakam is 29 right now. It's all about maximizing a 2-3 year window right now to win a title with Tatum entering his prime - so he doesn't jump ship in 2-3 years.

I suspect Tatum's taking a longer view than 2-3 years. Hence why they either keep Jaylen long-term or deal Jaylen for someone like Donovan Mitchell next summer. if the team falls short of a title next year

I see no reason to believe that Tatum would be that patient. People are already talking about Doncic asking out of Dallas and he's a year younger than Tatum. Mitchell was 25 (same age as Tatum) last summer when he got traded out of Utah, when it was clear that group had run its course. Giannis won a title at age 26, or else he'd probably be gone by now.

They might give it another year, but it'll be way harder to trade JB next year - no one is gonna want to trade for that overpriced supermax contract. No team is gonna want to have JB be their highest paid player and pay him that kind of $, when he's a fringe all-star..

[zoyathedestroya]

Read on Twitter

[GoCeltics123]

Read on Twitter

Zach thinks the Hawks are the team for Siakam

I don't really see it unless Siakam shows some openness to staying in ATL or Masai lowers his asking price

[CelticFaninLBC]

33? Who cares what he's doing at 33? Siakam is 29 right now. It's all about maximizing a 2-3 year window right now to win a title with Tatum entering his prime - so he doesn't jump ship in 2-3 years.

I suspect Tatum's taking a longer view than 2-3 years. Hence why they either keep Jaylen long-term or deal Jaylen for someone like Donovan Mitchell next summer. if the team falls short of a title next year

I see no reason to believe that Tatum would be that patient. People are already talking about Doncic asking out of Dallas and he's a year younger than Tatum. Mitchell was 25 (same age as Tatum) last summer when he got traded out of Utah, when it was clear that group had run its course. Giannis won a title at age 26, or else he'd probably be gone by now.

They might give it another year, but it'll be way harder to trade JB next year - no one is gonna want to trade for that overpriced supermax contract. No team is gonna want to have JB be their highest paid player and pay him that kind of $, when he's a fringe all-star..

I can't see a Jaylen for Siakam deal making the 2023-2024 team any better and it may also piss off Tatum.

Also can't see trading Jaylen now being easier cause he can he can threaten to not resign with Toronto.

The best deal for Toronto is getting young guys to build around Barnes

[Hal14]

Interesting. This is just a random Wizards fan - not an reporter/insider so take with a grain of salt. But they don't think Delon Wright is staying with the team.

Read on Twitter

So perhaps a deal where Brogdon goes to the clippers, Wright comes to Boston and Clippers send assets (probably some of the assets they were going to send in the initial Porzingis deal) to washington.

Perhaps that free's up enough cap space so that we then use the Grant TPE to go and get Saddiq Bey.

Afterall, there's rumors that we're still shopping Brogdon and there's rumors that we're interested in trading for Bey..

Swapping out Brogdon and adding on Wright and Bey means we're getting better defensively on the perimeter, we have 1 less injury prone guy where we have to constantly worry about if he's gonna get hurt, if he's gonna be healthy come playoff time, we get deeper and don't even lose any shooting..

[ddb]

Also two years older. Don’t want a non-elite guy making max money at 33. JB would be 31 but he’ll prob opt out at 30, before he’s really dropped off. Guys that don’t shoot well at 33 aren’t great bets.

Also, Jaylen is simply better than Siakam.

Celtics don't need to make their seismic trade this offseason. I know as fans we'd love to see the finished product ASAP. But it could be next offseason. Jaylen/Brogdon/4 1st rd picks for Giannis if he wants out as an example. Just thinking out loud.

I don't think it's clear cut that Jaylen is better.
Siakam is tiers above Jaylen defensively, plus there's just way more value in a guy who has the length and strength to defend up to 5. Jaylen is too weak to defend 4s and too slow to defend 2s. He is one of the least versatile defenders in the league.
Jaylen gives you more volume scoring on better efficiency, but it's arguable that Jaylen's efficiency would plummet if he was playing the lead scorer role on any team, and would absolutely crater if he was playing that role on the Raptors which has pretty much zero creators and awful spacing.
Siakam is a good passer and playmaker. Jaylen is among the league's worst in that particular area.
Jaylen is younger but his aging curve will be worse than Siakam's. Jaylen is significantly smaller, relies on athleticism which has been tapering off pretty noticeably, and Siakam has also been more durable.
Jaylen is looking for a supermax while Siakam wouldn't qualify.

Okay. So, you just answered your own question. Ship Jaylen to Toronto for Siakam and pieces. Sounds like you like Siakams as the better fit. For the record, I do not.

[ddb]

Also two years older. Don’t want a non-elite guy making max money at 33. JB would be 31 but he’ll prob opt out at 30, before he’s really dropped off. Guys that don’t shoot well at 33 aren’t great bets.

Also, Jaylen is simply better than Siakam.

Celtics don't need to make their seismic trade this offseason. I know as fans we'd love to see the finished product ASAP. But it could be next offseason. Jaylen/Brogdon/4 1st rd picks for Giannis if he wants out as an example. Just thinking out loud.

Go for it now, while you have the chance. Nothing is guaranteed down the road - there's no guarantee that Giannis asks out. And if he does ask out, he's probably going to Brooklyn, miami, golden st, clippers, lakers or phoenix like every other superstar does. If we're talking about trading for him in 2024, that means we're getting him for a playoff run in 2025..Giannis just had knee surgery, so who knows, he might not be this type of player anymore in 2025..

And Siakam is better than JB, IMO. Siakam is a much better playmaker (had 25 games last season with 7+ assists, compared to just 5 games for JB). Siakam had a 3.1 BPM, compared to 1.3 for JB. Siakam has more size, plays better team ball, higher IQ, does a better job of getting to the FT line, doesn't settle for 3's as much..and is less redundant with Tatum..

I think it's pretty clear that Brad wants Dame and is keeping an eye on developments there. The big question is will he sign JB and then work towards a deal with Portland and possibly a 3rd team that doesn't involved Jaylen (won't be eligible to be traded for 1 year after he signs extension). Or will these negotiations go nowhere and eventually JB is involved in a trade? Also, can't forget about the annoying fact that Dames camp is trying to force feed him to Miami. Would Brad roll the dice anyway?

[darrendaye]

Interesting. This is just a random Wizards fan - not an reporter/insider so take with a grain of salt. But they don't think Delon Wright is staying with the team.

Read on Twitter

So perhaps a deal where Brogdon goes to the clippers, Wright comes to Boston and Clippers send assets (probably some of the assets they were going to send in the initial Porzingis deal) to washington.

Perhaps that free's up enough cap space so that we then use the Grant TPE to go and get Saddiq Bey.

Afterall, there's rumors that we're still shopping Brogdon and there's rumors that we're interested in trading for Bey..

Swapping out Brogdon and adding on Wright and Bey means we're getting better defensively on the perimeter, we have 1 less injury prone guy where we have to constantly worry about if he's gonna get hurt, if he's gonna be healthy come playoff time, we get deeper and don't even lose any shooting..

As with any suggestion of a Brogdon trade, I return to the question of, who is your playoff closing unit if he goes?