Is There a Way to Make the Siakam/Barnes Duo Work?

[TorontoBarneys]

I know the primary problem is that they tend to operate in a lot of the same spaces on the court, but both of them are great playmakers and should in theory be able to easily play off each other, if only one or both of their 3pt shooting could be improved. What about a change in the offensive system? Is there any offensive system that would benefit both being on the floor at the same time without offering a glaring weakness?

Do you play Barnes as a small-ball C when he's on the court with Siakam? What to do with Poeltl? What level of 3pt shooter does each of them need to be to have the pairing be conventionally effective regardless of attempts at creativity in plays/sets/rotations?

All these Pascal trade rumors are starting to leave a bad taste in my mouth, and I'm not keen on leaving on such bad terms with the guy, so I'd rather he's just extended soon and we get on with the season without this stuff hanging over the team's heads if there isn't an actual quality offer on the table. I'm also not a fan of just handing the keys to Barnes out of the blue when it's clear he's not ready for that.

[OakleyDokely]

In smallball lineups, with a lot of shooting, I think they can work. Something like Siakam/Barnes with OG/Dick/GTJ could be a very effective group in short spurts. Spacing issues arise when a guy like Poeltl or Koloko is out there with both of them.

The key is also to stagger them better. One of them should be on the court at all times and they don't need to play all their minutes together. This will help getting Siakam's minutes down as well.

[WaltFrazier]

Darko's job to figure it out

[aminiaturebuddha]

There have definitely been a bunch of times where we've seen it work, particularly near the end of the 2021-2022 season, and the beginning of last year. And I'm pretty sure that overall the two-man advanced stats have them as a net positive. At times in those good stretches they were both making quick cuts to open space when the other drew the attention of defenders and they're both good enough passers that they were able to find each other more often than not.

Darko just needs to refine those things that worked well and put them in a position to succeed more often. Of course, as you say, there might be an added challenge now of devising ways to do that when Poeltl is also on the floor with them. What I'm remembering of their success often came from passes from one side of the paint to the other, or high to low post.

Maybe with Poeltl on the court as Pascal and Scottie they'll almost have to run a modified version of a triangle offence. That would push one of them a bit farther from the paint, but Scottie and Pascal (especially Scottie) are excellent face up passers.

[DG88]

The only way to make it work is with shooting. There needs to be 3 shooters on the court at all times. The only other way is if one or both of Scottie and Pascal become above average 3 point shooters.

[HumbleRen]

Not with Poeltl as the long term center. You can get away with it in the regular season and win a bunch of games but that trio will forever remain a limited ceiling in the playoffs especially if Siakam and Scottie are both incapable of being average 3 point shooters.

So you essentially need your backcourt to have an all star level guard who can score at all 3 levels and your 2nd guard to be a dynamic guard who can do secondary ball handling stuff and a Brook Lopez like center.

Good luck with finding all of that while Siakam is making 50M and OG is making 35M +.

[WaltFrazier]

The only way to make it work is with shooting. There needs to be 3 shooters on the court at all times. The only other way is if one or both of Scottie and Pascal become above average 3 point shooters.

I think both of them will come back this year with improved three point shots, well above average, and the offense will shine. Passing, cutting, Poeltl distributing, OG spotting up and driving, Schroder slashing and dishing, Gary and Gradey raining threes. It's going to be a thing of beauty

[dhackett1565]

Fit concerns are way overblown, in my opinion. Would we ideally see some growth to where Pascal stabilizes at least as a corner three point shooter? Sure. Should we hope for Scottie's better than expected midrange game to evolve into a pull-up 3 game? Absolutely.

But even as is, they had plenty of success together this season. Their bench groups were a bit of a mess (the spacing concerns do cause problems when the overall talent around them takes a dip), but when they played together with good players their collective playmaking overcame the other concerns.

And no, Jak is not a limiter to this, he was the guy they had the most success beside. This even with them playing largely beside Fred who had a terrible shooting year and as such wasn't providing the spacing you'd expect from that lineup being built with the two playmakers, Jak, and two shooters. A good roll man (especially one who can pass) and screen setter and offensive rebounder helps create space in different ways than shooters do but still creates space.

[Brinbe]

Obviously if they improve their 3 PT shooting. Either of them. Ideally both. Maybe it happens? But it's not something we can just assume will happen either. That's never really gonna be the strongsuits of their game.

As others have said, maybe if you make Barnes the 5 and run them as a front court tandem surrounded by shooters. But running Barnes as an undersized 5, aside from in small spurts, is hardly getting the most out of him.

If you put them in more their more conventional roles, assuming no tangible shot improvement, you'd need a better 3pt shooting C like a Turner and obviously the same from the 1/2 spots. You just can't get away with 3 sub-par shooters anymore with the way current NBA defenses work. We've seen teams content to zone up, clog the paint and leave a guy like Barnes open.

But yes, let's see Gary/OG/Scottie/Pascal/Yak run a triangle lol.

[TorontoBarneys]

The only way to make it work is with shooting. There needs to be 3 shooters on the court at all times. The only other way is if one or both of Scottie and Pascal become above average 3 point shooters.

I think both of them will come back this year with improved three point shots, well above average, and the offense will shine. Passing, cutting, Poeltl distributing, OG spotting up and driving, Schroder slashing and dishing, Gary and Gradey raining threes. It's going to be a thing of beauty

Inject it directly into my veins.

[Fairview4Life]

2 man pnr game. Both are decent enough ball handlers and pick setters and good going downhill towards the basket.

[God Squad]

Not with Purdle on the floor.

[will]

Yes.

By trading Pascal.

[pilkoids]

surround them with very good shooters

[mtcan]

Jak will start shooting the "summer 3" as Matt Devlin would say.

If JV is letting it fly...why not Jak?

[Scase]

I know the primary problem is that they tend to operate in a lot of the same spaces on the court, but both of them are great playmakers and should in theory be able to easily play off each other, if only one or both of their 3pt shooting could be improved. What about a change in the offensive system? Is there any offensive system that would benefit both being on the floor at the same time without offering a glaring weakness?

Do you play Barnes as a small-ball C when he's on the court with Siakam? What to do with Poeltl? What level of 3pt shooter does each of them need to be to have the pairing be conventionally effective regardless of attempts at creativity in plays/sets/rotations?

All these Pascal trade rumors are starting to leave a bad taste in my mouth, and I'm not keen on leaving on such bad terms with the guy, so I'd rather he's just extended soon and we get on with the season without this stuff hanging over the team's heads if there isn't an actual quality offer on the table. I'm also not a fan of just handing the keys to Barnes out of the blue when it's clear he's not ready for that.

The problem isn't exactly Siakam and Barnes. It's Siakam, Barnes AND Jak. This is why so many people were calling it a bad trade, not only did we overpay, but he just clogs the same area of the paint as those 2.

You can't run a lineup with 2 sub 33% shooters and 1 who doesn't know what a 3 point shot is.

[mtcan]

I know the primary problem is that they tend to operate in a lot of the same spaces on the court, but both of them are great playmakers and should in theory be able to easily play off each other, if only one or both of their 3pt shooting could be improved. What about a change in the offensive system? Is there any offensive system that would benefit both being on the floor at the same time without offering a glaring weakness?

Do you play Barnes as a small-ball C when he's on the court with Siakam? What to do with Poeltl? What level of 3pt shooter does each of them need to be to have the pairing be conventionally effective regardless of attempts at creativity in plays/sets/rotations?

All these Pascal trade rumors are starting to leave a bad taste in my mouth, and I'm not keen on leaving on such bad terms with the guy, so I'd rather he's just extended soon and we get on with the season without this stuff hanging over the team's heads if there isn't an actual quality offer on the table. I'm also not a fan of just handing the keys to Barnes out of the blue when it's clear he's not ready for that.

The problem isn't exactly Siakam and Barnes. It's Siakam, Barnes AND Jak. This is why so many people were calling it a bad trade, not only did we overpay, but he just clogs the same area of the paint as those 2.

You can't run a lineup with 2 sub 33% shooters and 1 who doesn't know what a 3 point shot is.

I believe Jak will get his usual 25-30 mpg and that we go small with Pascal at the 5 as a closing line-up for most teams not Denver or Philly that have a dominant big man.

It is conceivable that closing lineups will be:
Barnes
Trent
Dick
Anunoby
Siakam

Or

Schroeder
Trent
Barnes
Anunoby
Siakam

[Mikistan]

I know the primary problem is that they tend to operate in a lot of the same spaces on the court, but both of them are great playmakers and should in theory be able to easily play off each other, if only one or both of their 3pt shooting could be improved. What about a change in the offensive system? Is there any offensive system that would benefit both being on the floor at the same time without offering a glaring weakness?

Do you play Barnes as a small-ball C when he's on the court with Siakam? What to do with Poeltl? What level of 3pt shooter does each of them need to be to have the pairing be conventionally effective regardless of attempts at creativity in plays/sets/rotations?

All these Pascal trade rumors are starting to leave a bad taste in my mouth, and I'm not keen on leaving on such bad terms with the guy, so I'd rather he's just extended soon and we get on with the season without this stuff hanging over the team's heads if there isn't an actual quality offer on the table. I'm also not a fan of just handing the keys to Barnes out of the blue when it's clear he's not ready for that.

The problem isn't exactly Siakam and Barnes. It's Siakam, Barnes AND Jak. This is why so many people were calling it a bad trade, not only did we overpay, but he just clogs the same area of the paint as those 2.

You can't run a lineup with 2 sub 33% shooters and 1 who doesn't know what a 3 point shot is.

i mean you could, if your number 1 paid player could be a knockdown shooter, but there are 3 guys teams sag on

[hyper316]

Push the ball every single time. Siakam and Barnes can finish well in transition and good at passing, but struggle half court with below average shooting

[will]

I know the primary problem is that they tend to operate in a lot of the same spaces on the court, but both of them are great playmakers and should in theory be able to easily play off each other, if only one or both of their 3pt shooting could be improved. What about a change in the offensive system? Is there any offensive system that would benefit both being on the floor at the same time without offering a glaring weakness?

Do you play Barnes as a small-ball C when he's on the court with Siakam? What to do with Poeltl? What level of 3pt shooter does each of them need to be to have the pairing be conventionally effective regardless of attempts at creativity in plays/sets/rotations?

All these Pascal trade rumors are starting to leave a bad taste in my mouth, and I'm not keen on leaving on such bad terms with the guy, so I'd rather he's just extended soon and we get on with the season without this stuff hanging over the team's heads if there isn't an actual quality offer on the table. I'm also not a fan of just handing the keys to Barnes out of the blue when it's clear he's not ready for that.

The problem isn't exactly Siakam and Barnes. It's Siakam, Barnes AND Jak. This is why so many people were calling it a bad trade, not only did we overpay, but he just clogs the same area of the paint as those 2.

You can't run a lineup with 2 sub 33% shooters and 1 who doesn't know what a 3 point shot is.