Trade/Free Agency Thread, whose NINE is it anyways?? 2023-24

[ryan in Maine]

It doesn’t matter if he’s top 15 or 25. What matters is if he fits with your number 1, which he really doesn’t.

So your take is actually that we've been a Finals contender in spite of JB holding us back and not bc he's been a warrior for us lol?

We were just lucky the past two seasons. We could have easily lost in the 2nd rd both seasons because of the poor mentality this team has. Tatum and Brown don’t play off each other. That’s why its always JT and Smart two man show at end of games. JB is always left watching those two. But when we desperately needed him to step up, he crapped his pants on the biggest game with history on the line. Now tell me he’s worth that supermax??? A warrior for us lol.

Lucky. Ok. That makes us perhaps the most statistically lucky team in league history. If you wanna die on that hill have at it lol.

Questions about their fit are certainly valid. I have questions myself.

And look another example of a criticism that applies to JT (maybe moreso even) that's reserved solely for JB lol. The thing I said happens happened a few posts later. Good grief.

Brad isn't going to sacrifice our off-season at the alter of JB haters.

[Half-Full]

Just because you keep saying this doesn't make it true. Celtics haven't sacrificed quality depth. They traded Smart, Muscala and Gallo for Porzingis which is a talent upgrade. Grant Williams wasn't resigned and you can argue that point but this is the same Grant Williams who was in the doghouse and couldn't get off the bench last year. Celtics decided Grant Williams was worth $13-14 million per year.

Celtics currently have not sacrificed anything concerning depth but just keep on saying it.

Currently their hands are a bit tied on what they can offer a player in salary without incurring penalties. That decidedly does affect our ability to improve our depth. That problem will continue going forward if Jaylen is given a supermax contract.

Celtics are going to have that problem regardless if Jaylen Brown gets a super max or not. Celtics hand being tied this year have absolutely nothing to do with Jaylen Brown.

If you say so.

[Celts17Pride]

Currently their hands are a bit tied on what they can offer a player in salary without incurring penalties. That decidedly does affect our ability to improve our depth. That problem will continue going forward if Jaylen is given a supermax contract.

Celtics are going to have that problem regardless if Jaylen Brown gets a super max or not. Celtics hand being tied this year have absolutely nothing to do with Jaylen Brown.

If you say so.

I don't say so, look at the numbers.

[CelticFaninLBC]

Well, if you look at the stats, Brown is a better rebounder but Anunoby led the league in steals. I'll take Anunoby at half the price. Once again, I'd be happy to keep Brown around for Anunoby's money, but not for the supermax.

But it's moot because if you could offer Brown for Anunoby straight up the Raptors would say no.

With guys like Dillon Brooks making around $22 million, and FVV making around $43 million, is doubtful OG is half the price of Jaylen.

Yeah and everyone has mocked and ridiculed the rockets for paying that kind of money for those guys.

The rockets are also in a very different situation since they had cap space coming out of their ears so they could afford to overpay those guys.

A more apples to apples comparison is the extension we just gave Porzingis for $30 mil a year. As I already posted, we could try and get OG to sign for about that same amount. We'd tell him that we're not paying him more, since he's just the #3 guy here. But we'll give him about the same amount, since he's an elite defender, a little younger than Porzingis and less injury history.

I suspect OG gets more than Zinger due to being younger and not being injury prone.

[sam_I_am]

Celtics are going to have that problem regardless if Jaylen Brown gets a super max or not. Celtics hand being tied this year have absolutely nothing to do with Jaylen Brown.

If you say so.

I don't say so, look at the numbers.

If the c’s give him the supermax they have to pay him 32 million this season! If they don’t, they only have to pay him 32 million.

[Hal14]

There's an example just a few posts back re JB's overall league ranking.

These league rankings?

BPM: 66th in the league
EPM: 46th
RAPTOR: 76th
PIE: 66th
TS%: 106th

You're right, let's make him the highest paid player in NBA history.

Raptor is a garbage stat that’s discontinued anyway. Please don’t cite rankings in ts without adjusting for role or usage. It’s worse than meaningless without context.

What about BPM, can we not use that stat either? How about PIE?

How about RPM? JB ranked 44th in that.

Even if we just look at #2 options who are guards or wings, JB's TS% still doesn't look very good.

You tell me, which stat can we use to judge a player's performance? And where does JB rank in the league in it? If it's outside of the top 20, he definitely shouldn't get a supermax contract.

Oh wait, you said he's not worth a supermax. So idk what you're arguing about lol..

[165bows]

So Brad says we're looking at a wing or a 4/3 type of guy.

Perhaps that means he's looking at signing Kelly Oubre for the minimum. With a fall back option of Glenn Robinson III (if Oubre decides to sign with a different team that can offer him more money and/or more minutes)

Read on Twitter

Or perhaps we trade for Bey with the Grant TPE. Or we sign Hamidou Diallo, Javonte Green, Derrick Jones Jr, Austin Rivers, Justice Winslow or Terence Davis..

What happened to Derrick Jones? He had a $3M+ option that he turned down and now doesn't have an offer - is that right? At any rate I'd take either of the Chicago guys, Jones or Green. I liked Diallo for a depth guy but that role is filled completely by Brissett.

I do wonder if the issue is they are waiting to see if they are going to trade Champagnie's contract or not - if not, then waive him and grab Jones/Green whoever. Or alternatively do it after a trade and the roster spot opens up.

Wouldn't surprise me if that was what the scenario is.

[Floody100]

Can’t wait to give this guy a 300 million contract ..

Read on Twitter

[Triple7]

So your take is actually that we've been a Finals contender in spite of JB holding us back and not bc he's been a warrior for us lol?

We were just lucky the past two seasons. We could have easily lost in the 2nd rd both seasons because of the poor mentality this team has. Tatum and Brown don’t play off each other. That’s why its always JT and Smart two man show at end of games. JB is always left watching those two. But when we desperately needed him to step up, he crapped his pants on the biggest game with history on the line. Now tell me he’s worth that supermax??? A warrior for us lol.

Lucky. Ok. That makes us perhaps the most statistically lucky team in league history. If you wanna die on that hill have at it lol.

Questions about their fit are certainly valid. I have questions myself.

And look another example of a criticism that applies to JT (maybe moreso even) that's reserved solely for JB lol. The thing I said happens happened a few posts later. Good grief.

Brad isn't going to sacrifice our off-season at the alter of JB haters.

Bro, i bashed JT more than JB all because he’s our main guy. He clearly gets the majority of the blame. We can’t have our best player, a top 5 guy in the league, not have a field goal made the first 3 games the entire 4th quarter and expect to win. JT clearly isn’t there yet, but JT getting injured early, gave JB the chance to step up, but sadly turned the ball over and over.

[CelticFaninLBC]

Keep in mind, everyone - this is all in good fun. These aren't real trades, they're hypothetical. Let's not get our feathers ruffled up too much

I definitely didn't think that when I posted a hypothetical trade of JB for OG + Boucher (plus picks?) it would result in this much of a circus..

You got some of us fired up.

[Celts17Pride]

Can’t wait to give this guy a 300 million contract ..

Read on Twitter

In a few days, try to keep your excitement down.

[Hal14]

With guys like Dillon Brooks making around $22 million, and FVV making around $43 million, is doubtful OG is half the price of Jaylen.

Yeah and everyone has mocked and ridiculed the rockets for paying that kind of money for those guys.

The rockets are also in a very different situation since they had cap space coming out of their ears so they could afford to overpay those guys.

A more apples to apples comparison is the extension we just gave Porzingis for $30 mil a year. As I already posted, we could try and get OG to sign for about that same amount. We'd tell him that we're not paying him more, since he's just the #3 guy here. But we'll give him about the same amount, since he's an elite defender, a little younger than Porzingis and less injury history.

I suspect OG gets more than Zinger due to being younger and not being injury prone.

Perhaps. But if he's as horrible offensively as some people on here have said, he'll surely get less - or (worst case scenario) the same amount.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Can’t wait to give this guy a 300 million contract ..

Read on Twitter

Can someone photoshop Zoolander’s head onto Jaylen’s body

[Triple7]

Can’t wait to give this guy a 300 million contract ..

Read on Twitter

Hahaha. They haven’ stopped clowning Jaylen. Pay the guy who can’t dribble left 295M smh.

[31to6]

Guys Jaylen is going to be the highest player in the league for like 5 minutes, let’s not get the vapours up in here.

[165bows]

If they are just adding 2-way guys or depth guys or whatever, that's fine. I sort of assumed they were moving BrogDog but if they are keeping him, he's great for the role - just pricey, injury-prone, and a declining asset. Other than that, and being better at D, he is perfect for what they need in that spot so just roll with it and make sure to have some deeper depth when they need it.

White/Brown/Tat/Al/Zinger
Brogs/PP/Hauser/Brissett(new guy)/Rob

Deep depth of Davison (2-way), Walsh, Banton, Kornet, whatever other cheap guy they bring in.

Fun to tinker around the edges but that team is going to kill people frequently. Great starting lineup on both ends, great size, Brog is 6moty, Rob is starter level, 8th guy Hauser is a flame thrower from deep. None of the deeper guys are going to sink you on arrival (outside of maybe 1-2) which is good 'cause they will play a bit.

Give me Javonte Green and/or Derrick Jones Jr if they want someone 2-4. Still thought another PG was bigger priority (going to eat some crow on that, I guess it's changed since Grant left), but if they are good with what they have, great, means guys seem healthy or on the mend.

[steefP2]

These league rankings?

BPM: 66th in the league
EPM: 46th
RAPTOR: 76th
PIE: 66th
TS%: 106th

You're right, let's make him the highest paid player in NBA history.

Raptor is a garbage stat that’s discontinued anyway. Please don’t cite rankings in ts without adjusting for role or usage. It’s worse than meaningless without context.

What about BPM, can we not use that stat either? How about PIE?

How about RPM? JB ranked 44th in that.

Even if we just look at #2 options who are guards or wings, JB's TS% still doesn't look very good.

You tell me, which stat can we use to judge a player's performance? And where does JB rank in the league in it? If it's outside of the top 20, he definitely shouldn't get a supermax contract.

Oh wait, you said he's not worth a supermax. So idk what you're arguing about lol..

I pointed out the stats I have an issue with and how you use them. If I didn’t name them, you can assume I don’t have an issue with them. What I’m arguing about is how you’re using stats as a blunt instrument without providing context. I’m not even sure you know how these stats are calculated and what they hold into account.

But again; it’s not secret jaylen rates poorly in these. But that shouldn’t be the end of the conversation. I probably land with Jaylen somewhere in the 23-30 rank among the league but I think discussing players in that range as better or worse in a strict sense is reductive. With the 2nd and 3rd tier of star, team construction and such jace to be a major element of the conversation for it to mean anything.

Lastly I would say I’m arguing that you seem to not want to give Jaylen a max or supermax contract. I would infer from that you would want to trade him right now ? But I haven’t seen a proposal from you that would actually make our team better so it’s just a lot of complaining without offering an alternative; in a super condescending tone no less.

[Andrew McCeltic]

So Brad says we're looking at a wing or a 4/3 type of guy.

Perhaps that means he's looking at signing Kelly Oubre for the minimum. With a fall back option of Glenn Robinson III (if Oubre decides to sign with a different team that can offer him more money and/or more minutes)

Or perhaps we trade for Bey with the Grant TPE. Or we sign Hamidou Diallo, Javonte Green, Derrick Jones Jr, Austin Rivers, Justice Winslow or Terence Davis..

What happened to Derrick Jones? He had a $3M+ option that he turned down and now doesn't have an offer - is that right? At any rate I'd take either of the Chicago guys, Jones or Green. I liked Diallo for a depth guy but that role is filled completely by Brissett.

So if you’re keeping the point guards you have the vet minimum options.

If you deal Pritchard or Brogdon you have to fill a spot in the backcourt. But you have to deal one or both if you want to use the TPE or taxMLE and stay under apron 2.

Tax MLE is off the table- the only guy I’d want is Dosunmu.

TPE options for a wing, combo forward or backup point guard?

Pritchard or Brogdon trades for a wing, combo forward or point guard?

[Hal14]

Raptor is a garbage stat that’s discontinued anyway. Please don’t cite rankings in ts without adjusting for role or usage. It’s worse than meaningless without context.

What about BPM, can we not use that stat either? How about PIE?

How about RPM? JB ranked 44th in that.

Even if we just look at #2 options who are guards or wings, JB's TS% still doesn't look very good.

You tell me, which stat can we use to judge a player's performance? And where does JB rank in the league in it? If it's outside of the top 20, he definitely shouldn't get a supermax contract.

Oh wait, you said he's not worth a supermax. So idk what you're arguing about lol..

I pointed out the stats I have an issue with and how you use them. If I didn’t name them, you can assume I don’t have an issue with them. What I’m arguing about is how you’re using stats as a blunt instrument without providing context. I’m not even sure you know how these stats are calculated and what they hold into account.

But again; it’s not secret jaylen rates poorly in these. But that shouldn’t be the end of the conversation. I probably land with Jaylen somewhere in the 23-30 rank among the league but I think discussing players in that range as better or worse in a strict sense is reductive. With the 2nd and 3rd tier of star, team construction and such jace to be a major element of the conversation for it to mean anything.

Lastly I would say I’m arguing that you seem to not want to give Jaylen a max or supermax contract. I would infer from that you would want to trade him right now ? But I haven’t seen a proposal from you that would actually make our team better so it’s just a lot of complaining without offering an alternative; in a super condescending tone no less.

I offered an alternative. JB for OG + Boucher + picks. I've also posted various other JB trade ideas on here.

[steefP2]

What about BPM, can we not use that stat either? How about PIE?

How about RPM? JB ranked 44th in that.

Even if we just look at #2 options who are guards or wings, JB's TS% still doesn't look very good.

You tell me, which stat can we use to judge a player's performance? And where does JB rank in the league in it? If it's outside of the top 20, he definitely shouldn't get a supermax contract.

Oh wait, you said he's not worth a supermax. So idk what you're arguing about lol..

I pointed out the stats I have an issue with and how you use them. If I didn’t name them, you can assume I don’t have an issue with them. What I’m arguing about is how you’re using stats as a blunt instrument without providing context. I’m not even sure you know how these stats are calculated and what they hold into account.

But again; it’s not secret jaylen rates poorly in these. But that shouldn’t be the end of the conversation. I probably land with Jaylen somewhere in the 23-30 rank among the league but I think discussing players in that range as better or worse in a strict sense is reductive. With the 2nd and 3rd tier of star, team construction and such jace to be a major element of the conversation for it to mean anything.

Lastly I would say I’m arguing that you seem to not want to give Jaylen a max or supermax contract. I would infer from that you would want to trade him right now ? But I haven’t seen a proposal from you that would actually make our team better so it’s just a lot of complaining without offering an alternative; in a super condescending tone no less.

I offered an alternative. JB for OG + Boucher + picks. I've also posted various other JB trade ideas on here.

Which is why I specified “make the team better”