2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation - Free Agency Begins

Post #1501 » by **bwgood77** » Thu Jul 13, 2023 6:48 pm

TJ and Turner would be a nice return for Payne & Ayton. Both are better 3pt shooters and defenders. Our rebounding would suffer a bit though. Fewer dunks too which might bother a lot of people. Turner is pretty injury prone though, playing in only 151 games the last 3 seasons.

Djedefre · Post #1502 » by **Djedefre** » Thu Jul 13, 2023 6:54 pm

That is a classic lateral move. McConnell is not better than Payne. Might be more available tho but certainly not an upgrade.

Sunsdeuce · Post #1503 » by **Sunsdeuce** » Thu Jul 13, 2023 7:01 pm

bwgood77 wrote:TJ and Turner would be a nice return for Payne & Ayton. Both are better 3pt shooters and defenders. Our rebounding would suffer a bit though. Fewer dunks too which might bother a lot of people. Turner is pretty injury prone though, playing in only 151 games the last 3 seasons.

No thanks yo Turner. Can’t rebound, can’t stay on the court. Y’all have this love affair with him but he isn’t all that.

enigmatics · Post #1504 » by **enigmatics** » Thu Jul 13, 2023 7:01 pm

bwgood77 wrote:TJ and Turner would be a nice return for Payne & Ayton. Both are better 3pt shooters and defenders. Our rebounding would suffer a bit though. Fewer dunks too which might bother a lot of people. Turner is pretty injury prone though, playing in only 151 games the last 3 seasons.

Much higher upside from a blue collar, hard working defensive standpoint. But ya, injuries are the catch 22 with him. The question is whether playing with an NBA contender might erase some of those DNP's.

https://craftednba.com/players/comparison

enigmatics · Post #1505 » by **enigmatics** » Thu Jul 13, 2023 7:04 pm

Djedefre wrote:That is a classic lateral move. McConnell is not better than Payne. Might be more available tho but certainly not an upgrade.

It's time to ditch Payne.

The dude's run from the Bubble playoffs into the next year were a total aberration. He inevitably fell back to his average and nagging injuries old self. While he has insane court speed, he's reckless, commits a lot of dumb fouls, and has a hitch in his shot that prevents him from getting it off unless he's wide open (which he doesn't even hit anymore).

TJ is a much more sound player and not somebody they'd need to go off scoring wise.

kennydorglas · Post #1506 » by **kennydorglas** » Thu Jul 13, 2023 7:04 pm

Welcome to the Phoenix Suns, Myles Turner.

enigmatics · Post #1507 » by **enigmatics** » Thu Jul 13, 2023 7:06 pm

kennydorglas wrote:Welcome to the Phoenix Suns, Myles Turner.

I mean he WANTED to go there last year.

The Suns were forced to protect their asset in order to get something back. It's not wild to think - even with the re-shaping of the team and new coach - that they still make that happen for him. Clean slate for both.

I'd much rather have a Wendell Carter Jr - but I'm all for Myles too.

Fo-Real · Post #1508 » by **Fo-Real** » Thu Jul 13, 2023 7:18 pm

BobbieL wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Bogyo wrote:Not sure why Indy would trade TJ for Payne tho

Age of roster probably.

TJ has 5m due next season - also would clear cap for the long term . Probably would have to include Ish for the math to work

I wonder if they think Ayton has more upside potential and maybe it a bigger deal

Two days….7/15

If its a trade of just TJ for Cam and Ish, that could make some sense. Could also be why we have heard Bol rumors but no action. Maybe waiting.

Dr Manute · Post #1509 » by **Dr Manute** » Thu Jul 13, 2023 7:20 pm

Good video on Myles Turner by a Pacers fan.

Watch on YouTube

Fo-Real · Post #1510 » by **Fo-Real** » Thu Jul 13, 2023 7:20 pm

SunsRback4Good wrote:
grumpysaddle wrote:I've wanted TJ McConnell on the Suns for years now. If you can turn Cam Payne into TJ McConnell, you do it 10 times out of 10.

Matt Ishbia bringing back Suns players we wanted or should have had in the past. First, Eric Gordon and now possibly TJ McConnell. I wonder if Rajon Rondo is next the player we should have drafted, but traded to the Celtics in a draft-day trade.

Kevin Love next year! :lol:

sunskerr · Post #1511 » by **sunskerr** » Thu Jul 13, 2023 7:41 pm

Fo-Real wrote:
SunsRback4Good wrote:
grumpysaddle wrote:I've wanted TJ McConnell on the Suns for years now. If you can turn Cam Payne into TJ McConnell, you do it 10 times out of 10.

Matt Ishbia bringing back Suns players we wanted or should have had in the past. First, Eric Gordon and now possibly TJ McConnell. I wonder if Rajon Rondo is next the player we should have drafted, but traded to the Celtics in a draft-day trade.

Kevin Love next year!

And I'm sure we'll definitely get Aldridge this time!

Post #1512 » by **bwgood77** » Thu Jul 13, 2023 8:35 pm

enigmatics wrote:
kennydorglas wrote:Welcome to the Phoenix Suns, Myles Turner.

I mean he WANTED to go there last year.

The Suns were forced to protect their asset in order to get something back. It's not wild to think - even with the re-shaping of the team and new coach - that they still make that happen for him. Clean slate for both.

I'd much rather have a Wendell Carter Jr - but I'm all for Myles too.

They didn't offer Turner though. And they may like Turner/Toppin better than Ayton/Toppin since Ayton and Toppin have some similar defensive efficiencies.

Offensively they fit together fairly well. Toppin can shoot the 3 ok, but cannot shoot from 3-16 ft. was 27.3% from 3-10 ft and 16.7% from 10-16. Ayton can play midrange and Toppin can shoot 3s ok and finish inside.

And Toppin is not much of a rebounder, averaging less than 3 a game and 6.4 per 36.

But, Indy does like Ayton, and maybe with Toppin they view Turner as a little more expendable even though their defense could suffer.

Post #1513 » by **bwgood77** » Thu Jul 13, 2023 8:42 pm

I like Payne more than most. I think him and TJ is a toss up, but TJ really hit the 3 last year and is an aggressive defender.

Though TJ was not very good at shooting 3s before and his #s are very low volume..less than 1 attempt per game. Payne shot almost 37% from 3 last year and 44% in 20-21. He was down a little below 34% in between, so not that awful. His asst/to ratio has always been strong.

His biggest problem has been short range.

I think Payne is a pretty good defender too. I think it's kind of a toss up between the 2 with TJ maybe a little better for a vet team and Payne with more potential/upside.

enigmatics · Post #1514 » by **enigmatics** » Thu Jul 13, 2023 9:16 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
enigmatics wrote:
kennydorglas wrote:Welcome to the Phoenix Suns, Myles Turner.

I mean he WANTED to go there last year.

The Suns were forced to protect their asset in order to get something back. It's not wild to think - even with the re-shaping of the team and new coach - that they still make that happen for him. Clean slate for both.

I'd much rather have a Wendell Carter Jr - but I'm all for Myles too.

They didn't offer Turner though. And they may like Turner/Toppin better than Ayton/Toppin since Ayton and Toppin have some similar defensive efficiencies.

Offensively they fit together fairly well. Toppin can shoot the 3 ok, but cannot shoot from 3-16 ft. was 27.3% from 3-10 ft and 16.7% from 10-16. Ayton can play midrange and Toppin can shoot 3s ok and finish inside.

And Toppin is not much of a rebounder, averaging less than 3 a game and 6.4 per 36.

But, Indy does like Ayton, and maybe with Toppin they view Turner as a little more expendable even though their defense could suffer.

Indy has had Turner's name in trade talks for a few years now and that is SEPARATE to my comments about Ayton wanting to be in Indy. The two were not mutually exclusive.

enigmatics · Post #1515 » by **enigmatics** » Thu Jul 13, 2023 9:32 pm

TJ is a true 1 while Cameron Payne is a tweener imo.

Payne vs. McConnell

https://craftednba.com/players/comparison
https://craftednba.com/glossary

MrMiyagi · Post #1516 » by **MrMiyagi** » Thu Jul 13, 2023 9:47 pm

Our goal seems to be zero continuity.

KdoubleDees23 · Post #1517 » by **KdoubleDees23** » Thu Jul 13, 2023 9:48 pm

bwgood77 wrote:TJ and Turner would be a nice return for Payne & Ayton. Both are better 3pt shooters and defenders. Our rebounding would suffer a bit though. Fewer dunks too which might bother a lot of people. Turner is pretty injury prone though, playing in only 151 games the last 3 seasons.

After seeing Turners outfit, we should not trade Ayton for him. Dudes softer than Ayton

enigmatics · Post #1518 » by **enigmatics** » Thu Jul 13, 2023 9:50 pm

MrMiyagi wrote:Our goal seems to be zero continuity.

Continuity promises nothing though and many treadmill teams are often formed that way.

They only had a handful of guys under contract when the season began anyways - it's being rebuilt for both championship aspirational purposes and clearly for big ticket/entertaining at the highest level.

KdoubleDees23 · Post #1519 » by **KdoubleDees23** » Thu Jul 13, 2023 9:50 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
enigmatics wrote:
kennydorglas wrote:Welcome to the Phoenix Suns, Myles Turner.

I mean he WANTED to go there last year.

The Suns were forced to protect their asset in order to get something back. It's not wild to think - even with the re-shaping of the team and new coach - that they still make that happen for him. Clean slate for both.

I'd much rather have a Wendell Carter Jr - but I'm all for Myles too.

They didn't offer Turner though. And they may like Turner/Toppin better than Ayton/Toppin since Ayton and Toppin have some similar defensive efficiencies.

Offensively they fit together fairly well. Toppin can shoot the 3 ok, but cannot shoot from 3-16 ft. was 27.3% from 3-10 ft and 16.7% from 10-16. Ayton can play midrange and Toppin can shoot 3s ok and finish inside.

And Toppin is not much of a rebounder, averaging less than 3 a game and 6.4 per 36.

But, Indy does like Ayton, and maybe with Toppin they view Turner as a little more expendable even though their defense could suffer.

Ayton / Toppin > Turner / Toppin tbh. What are you talking about Defense efficiencies? Ayton was a better defender than Turner last year, Turner was a better shot blocker.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/nba-defensive-rating-leaders-this-season

Saberestar · Post #1520 » by **Saberestar** » Thu Jul 13, 2023 10:00 pm

enigmatics wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:Our goal seems to be zero continuity.

Continuity promises nothing though and many treadmill teams are often formed that way.

They only had a handful of guys under contract when the season began anyways - it's being rebuilt for both championship aspirational purposes and clearly for big ticket/entertaining at the highest level.

Absolutely.

The roster is exciting and extremely talented. Next season is gonna be fun.