Sixers Offseason Thread Part 3

[Ballerhogger]

https://nypost.com/2021/10/19/james-harden-declining-nets-extension-is-a-227-million-bet

Please read this incredible article.

Man he really could gotten the bag … he’s wants to be treated like like Lebron etc .. nobody sees that in him

[Ballerhogger]

I wonder if KL and PG are putting pressure on the organization to make a deal. Has anyone reported that they're even interested in this connection?

Who do the sixers want from the clippers ? Mann? Zubac ?

[rocketsfan100]

Harden declined the Brooklyn offer thinking he would get that in Philadelphia was one of the dumbest decisions in recent history. You sign that deal because it guarantees you that money wether you get traded or not

[rocketsfan100]

I wonder if KL and PG are putting pressure on the organization to make a deal. Has anyone reported that they're even interested in this connection?

Who do the sixers want from the clippers ? Mann? Zubac ?

Zubac might be only involved in a three way that gets them back another Center like an three way with Atlanta or whatever otherwise it makes no sense to trade zubac

[Embiid P]

I wonder if KL and PG are putting pressure on the organization to make a deal. Has anyone reported that they're even interested in this connection?

Who do the sixers want from the clippers ? Mann? Zubac ?

Mann would be nice. Unfortunately, it seems like the Clippers are reluctant to part with him though.

[Negrodamus]

DeRozan is simply a better asset than LaVine. That's even with LaVine locked in for multiple years entering his prime compared to DeRozan at 33 on an expiring.

When DeRozan leaves Chicago, LaVine is going to be the main guy and he's going to average 25-30 ppg on horrific efficiency as the Bulls head towards the lottery every year.

It would be like if we traded Embiid now and built around Maxey. Maxey is a good player, but he'll never be the #1 or even #2 guy on a winning team.

I can understand why any given person might not want LaVine on this Sixers team if the goal is max cap space, but I don't get this business about horrific efficiency. LaVine has posted TS% of greater than 60% for each of the last 3 years (averaging around 61.5% over that span). That's very, very efficient for a wing. Better than Harden over that span (minus the great playmaking, of course-- I'm just addressing efficiency). He shoots 3s in volume and at a very good (although not elite) clip, he gets to the line at a good rate and converts at about 85%, he can catch & shoot or create his own shot. Very nice ball fake to throw off defenders. He's not a great defender and and doesn't mesh particularly well with DeRozan when they're both on the court, but offensively inefficient he's not.

In my initial comment, I said that his efficiency would be linked to DeRozan leaving due to DeRozan essentially forcing the defense to reckon with his inside-the-arc game which opens things up for LaVine. I didn't think LaVine was an inefficient scorer this year because he was assisted more from 3 than any other time with the Bulls (suggesting others, likely DeRozan, creating for him).

However, after looking at his numbers pre-DeRozan, it appears he was very efficient at scoring on a terrible Bulls teams during his 20-21 campaign. I guess my problem with him is he doesn't do anything other than score. Not a great distributor, very bad defender. And every time I'm watching him play, he's usually a major chucker that derails Chicago's offense. Granted, he does put up absurd games and is capable of winning the game himself through scoring. But his hot/cold volume ISO shooting from 3 will infuriate everyone involved (fans, Embiid, Nurse, ownership, etc). LaVine would be hurting Maxey's growth as a scorer too

DeRozan, on the other hand, is that distributor will need. He also would be more aggressive getting his basket, unlike Harden at times this year when he was hunting assists for some reason. And he'd also be able to generate fouls. If we're just stuck with Harden being a baby and we don't want to regress too much, I'd be fine with pulling in DeRozan and pieces.

[Iverson Armband]

This whole Harden situation reeks of the Simmons situation when a lot of fans thought Ben’s value around the league was way higher than it actually was. I seriously doubt the Bulls would entertain a Lavine or Derozan swap for Harden at this point. Everyone knows the dude is a fraud and a losing player who wants to get paid .

[Negrodamus]

This whole Harden situation reeks of the Simmons situation when a lot of fans thought Ben’s value around the league was way higher than it actually was. I seriously doubt the Bulls would entertain a Lavine or Derozan swap for Harden at this point. Everyone knows the dude is a fraud and a losing player who wants to get paid .

But Ben yielded Harden...

He also would have yielded Haliburton. The fan's valuation of Ben was kinda on the money. What Ben did after is a different story.

[Iverson Armband]

This whole Harden situation reeks of the Simmons situation when a lot of fans thought Ben’s value around the league was way higher than it actually was. I seriously doubt the Bulls would entertain a Lavine or Derozan swap for Harden at this point. Everyone knows the dude is a fraud and a losing player who wants to get paid .

But Ben yielded Harden...

He also would have yielded Haliburton. The fan's valuation of Ben was kinda on the money. What Ben did after is a different story.

…Ben along with 2 firsts and a cost controlled solid role player yielded Harden. Harden also demanded a trade here, which affected leverage.

There are conflicting reports on if Haliburton was actually available for Ben. Considering who Hali wound up being traded for, I’m leaning towards those reports being bogus. Sabonis was a way better asset at the time which was obvious to everyone but homer Sixers fans.

[Eyeamok]

Harden bet on himself and he lost. What is up with guys being offered guaranteed money and saying no it's not ideal here or wanting more? Just baffling to me. Nerlens Noel is still out there looking for a home. That guy turned down 70+ million dollar deal because he wanted a "fair" deal. He never did quite make up that money.

[Ben]

DeRozan is simply a better asset than LaVine. That's even with LaVine locked in for multiple years entering his prime compared to DeRozan at 33 on an expiring.

When DeRozan leaves Chicago, LaVine is going to be the main guy and he's going to average 25-30 ppg on horrific efficiency as the Bulls head towards the lottery every year.

It would be like if we traded Embiid now and built around Maxey. Maxey is a good player, but he'll never be the #1 or even #2 guy on a winning team.

I can understand why any given person might not want LaVine on this Sixers team if the goal is max cap space, but I don't get this business about horrific efficiency. LaVine has posted TS% of greater than 60% for each of the last 3 years (averaging around 61.5% over that span). That's very, very efficient for a wing. Better than Harden over that span (minus the great playmaking, of course-- I'm just addressing efficiency). He shoots 3s in volume and at a very good (although not elite) clip, he gets to the line at a good rate and converts at about 85%, he can catch & shoot or create his own shot. Very nice ball fake to throw off defenders. He's not a great defender and and doesn't mesh particularly well with DeRozan when they're both on the court, but offensively inefficient he's not.

In my initial comment, I said that his efficiency would be linked to DeRozan leaving due to DeRozan essentially forcing the defense to reckon with his inside-the-arc game which opens things up for LaVine. I didn't think LaVine was an inefficient scorer this year because he was assisted more from 3 than any other time with the Bulls (suggesting others, likely DeRozan, creating for him).

However, after looking at his numbers pre-DeRozan, it appears he was very efficient at scoring on a terrible Bulls teams during his 20-21 campaign. I guess my problem with him is he doesn't do anything other than score. Not a great distributor, very bad defender. And every time I'm watching him play, he's usually a major chucker that derails Chicago's offense. Granted, he does put up absurd games and is capable of winning the game himself through scoring. But his hot/cold volume ISO shooting from 3 will infuriate everyone involved (fans, Embiid, Nurse, ownership, etc). LaVine would be hurting Maxey's growth as a scorer too

DeRozan, on the other hand, is that distributor will need. He also would be more aggressive getting his basket, unlike Harden at times this year when he was hunting assists for some reason. And he'd also be able to generate fouls. If we're just stuck with Harden being a baby and we don't want to regress too much, I'd be fine with pulling in DeRozan and pieces.

I get you. You're right of course that LaVine really only stands out at scoring. He's actually quite efficient, and after his major knee injury he had to develop some new moves for finishing at the rim or else he would have been toast-- and he did it-- but he's not a multi-dimensional superstar.

As far as frustrating Maxey's development, I also see what you're saying there. IMO if the Sixers were to get LaVine (which BTW I think is very unlikely) the goal should be to play the two of those guys together only a portion of the time, and to spread them over multiple units. After all, Maxey's not really a true point guard and Zach certainly isn't. Unless Harden were here too, which presumably wouldn't be the case, the two of them playing alongside each other would sacrifice fluid playmaking and also generate no backcourt D. I would look to play Maxey with someone like Springer and LaVine with someone like Pat Bev, and then they'd be together for limited stretches along with the best defensive 3-4 combo we could muster. All of which is completely hypothetical, of course.

The time when I most wanted Zach on the Sixers was actually before Simmons imploded (and he became afraid to shoot or get sent to the line) and Zach's free agency was still an impending thing. I wondered about a Simmons/ LaVine backcourt, with Ben covering Zach's defensive liabilities and Zach's offense freeing up Ben for easy put-backs and dunks. At this point in time I still see LaVine's merits but he doesn't seem like as much of a "final piece" as he once did. And even back then I didn't know exactly what we could offer the Bulls that would benefit both teams.

Aa far as DeRozan, he has impressed me tremendously with the Bulls but he's on the cusp of the age when most NBA wings decline precipitously. And he doesn't shoot the 3 very well so he doesn't spread the floor as one usually would want a wing to do. You couldn't easily play him at the 3 and Reed at the 4; you'd probably need Tobi's shooting at the 4 spot. So that's what, something like Maxey/ [Springer or Melton]/ DeRozan/ Tobi/ Biid as a starting 5? No real playmaker, not elite defense or rebounding... does that add up to championship material? I'd be surprised.