2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation - Free Agency Begins

[bwgood77]

ot

I mean he WANTED to go there last year.

The Suns were forced to protect their asset in order to get something back. It's not wild to think - even with the re-shaping of the team and new coach - that they still make that happen for him. Clean slate for both.

I'd much rather have a Wendell Carter Jr - but I'm all for Myles too.

They didn't offer Turner though. And they may like Turner/Toppin better than Ayton/Toppin since Ayton and Toppin have some similar defensive efficiencies.

Offensively they fit together fairly well. Toppin can shoot the 3 ok, but cannot shoot from 3-16 ft. was 27.3% from 3-10 ft and 16.7% from 10-16. Ayton can play midrange and Toppin can shoot 3s ok and finish inside.

And Toppin is not much of a rebounder, averaging less than 3 a game and 6.4 per 36.

But, Indy does like Ayton, and maybe with Toppin they view Turner as a little more expendable even though their defense could suffer.

Indy has had Turner's name in trade talks for a few years now and that is SEPARATE to my comments about Ayton wanting to be in Indy. The two were not mutually exclusive.

Yes, but then they traded Sabonis and Turner had by far his best season, scoring 18 ppg and had his high in rebounding per game, his best 3pt shooting year and over a 65% TS%.

I think he was somewhat disgruntled before but not so much now. Yes, Ayton did sign an offer sheet there. It doesn't really matter where he wants to play, though I suppose a team that knows he wants to play there would probably be more likely to trade for him if they like him. But if they didn't offer him last summer, he played better and Ayton played worse last season, and makes more money, it doesn't seem like they would suddenly want to trade him. But maybe Ishbia will have his magic meeting again and Turner will demand a Phx trade (not that it would mean as much as with Beal given Beal had a no trade clause).

[bwgood77]

I mean he WANTED to go there last year.

The Suns were forced to protect their asset in order to get something back. It's not wild to think - even with the re-shaping of the team and new coach - that they still make that happen for him. Clean slate for both.

I'd much rather have a Wendell Carter Jr - but I'm all for Myles too.

They didn't offer Turner though. And they may like Turner/Toppin better than Ayton/Toppin since Ayton and Toppin have some similar defensive efficiencies.

Offensively they fit together fairly well. Toppin can shoot the 3 ok, but cannot shoot from 3-16 ft. was 27.3% from 3-10 ft and 16.7% from 10-16. Ayton can play midrange and Toppin can shoot 3s ok and finish inside.

And Toppin is not much of a rebounder, averaging less than 3 a game and 6.4 per 36.

But, Indy does like Ayton, and maybe with Toppin they view Turner as a little more expendable even though their defense could suffer.

Ayton / Toppin > Turner / Toppin tbh. What are you talking about Defense efficiencies? Ayton was a better defender than Turner last year, Turner was a better shot blocker.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/nba-defensive-rating-leaders-this-season

Interesting. Everyone on that list above Ayton outside of the Nikola's are great defenders, and even a few right behind him (Draymond Green, Derrick White, Jrue Holiday) are great as well. According to that metric, he was up there with some of the best.

[bigfoot]

They didn't offer Turner though. And they may like Turner/Toppin better than Ayton/Toppin since Ayton and Toppin have some similar defensive efficiencies.

Offensively they fit together fairly well. Toppin can shoot the 3 ok, but cannot shoot from 3-16 ft. was 27.3% from 3-10 ft and 16.7% from 10-16. Ayton can play midrange and Toppin can shoot 3s ok and finish inside.

And Toppin is not much of a rebounder, averaging less than 3 a game and 6.4 per 36.

But, Indy does like Ayton, and maybe with Toppin they view Turner as a little more expendable even though their defense could suffer.

Ayton / Toppin > Turner / Toppin tbh. What are you talking about Defense efficiencies? Ayton was a better defender than Turner last year, Turner was a better shot blocker.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/nba-defensive-rating-leaders-this-season

Interesting. Everyone on that list above Ayton outside of the Nikola's are great defenders, and even a few right behind him (Draymond Green, Derrick White, Jrue Holiday) are great as well. According to that metric, he was up there with some of the best.

Those numbers loo, really suspect. Maybe crosscheck with a different site

[DroughtsOverPHX]

Ayton will be surrounded by more talent than he ever has been and have a new coach. I hope we get a good look at that before we go trading him.

[lilfishi22]

I see both sides of argument for Payne vs TJ. I think if we take consistency and injuries out of the picture, Cam is 100% the kind of player profile I want in that back up PG spot. He's fast, he creates a lot of opportunities, attacks gaps, isn't afraid to take big shots and he's an awesome vibes guy. TJ seems more by the book kind of PG. He's never been much of a shooter from range and he doesn't deviate from that reputation. He takes care of the ball, he passes well and to me, he's just a stable production guy and you just know what you're gonna get from him.

Payne should be a better player than TJ imo but with the inconsistency and the injuries that have taken him out of a lot of games, it's certainly difficult to back up that claim. If TJ is to be a Sun, he will have to up his 3PA. 0.8 attempts a game is just not gonna cut it.

[Saberestar]

Saben Lee is back with a new two-way contract.

NICE.

[lilfishi22]

TJ and Turner would be a nice return for Payne & Ayton. Both are better 3pt shooters and defenders. Our rebounding would suffer a bit though. Fewer dunks too which might bother a lot of people. Turner is pretty injury prone though, playing in only 151 games the last 3 seasons.

Much higher upside from a blue collar, hard working defensive standpoint. But ya, injuries are the catch 22 with him. The question is whether playing with an NBA contender might erase some of those DNP's.

https://craftednba.com/players/comparison

I think Turner is just a great fit here. He brings great rim protection, floor spacing and I think more optionality in the PnR because of his ability to pop from 3 and also roll to the rim.

The injuries is a big concern though

[lilfishi22]

Saben Lee is back with a new two-way contract.

NICE.

CONTINUITY. INTERNAL DEVELOPMENT.

[bwoolf2]

Saben Lee is back with a new two-way contract.

NICE.

CONTINUITY. INTERNAL DEVELOPMENT.

Lee is going to have a sneaky good season under Vogel and earn his way to a full time contract.

[darealjuice]

Definitely a TJ fan. He'd be a really good playmaker off the bench when we're lacking that a bit, and he's really good defensively too. I think he's a much better player than Cam unless he suddenly returns to 20-21 form. Cam is the better shooter though.

[Stix]

The only McConnell trade I can see is...

Payne + Wainwright + Goodwin for McConnell + Isaiah Jackson

We need to include all three to make the money work, we can get back Jackson (Booker's dad's client) with the trade exception. But this can't happen until Aug 22nd since Goodwin was just traded.

Edit: also makes room for Bol Bol...

Booker/Beal/KD/KBD/Ayton
McConnell/Gordon/Yuta/Jackson/Eubanks
Lee/Okogie/Camara/BolBol/Metu

2way: Saban Lee

[dmastro32]

The only McConnell trade I can see is...

Payne + Wainwright + Goodwin for McConnell + Isaiah Jackson

We need to include all three to make the money work, we can get back Jackson (Booker's dad's client) with the trade exception. But this can't happen until Aug 22nd since Goodwin was just traded.

Edit: also makes room for Bol Bol...

Booker/Beal/KD/KBD/Ayton
McConnell/Gordon/Yuta/Jackson/Eubanks
Lee/Okogie/Camara/BolBol/Metu

2way: Saban Lee

We not trading Goodwin based on the things Vogel has said about him and one of the few cost controlled players that we can really easily keep long term.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Like Saben Lee as an emergency PG.

3.1 assist to turnover ratio, 1.8 steals and 37% from 3.

Only played 1700 minutes of NBA at 23.

[lilfishi22]

This is wild. Ishbia is basically doing everything right now. He’s owner and GM right now.

Read on Twitter

“ James Jones, the Suns president of basketball operations, was inside the plush suite with team CEO Josh Bartelstein and new coach Frank Vogel, all of whom had flown in the day before on a private jet.

But it was Mat Ishbia, the team's new owner as of earlier this year, who led the three-hour session that wasn't just aimed at basketball but how Beal's family would fit into what's being built in Phoenix.

When the meeting ended, Beal was on his way toward being a Sun.

"That plane ride home will be a memory I have for a long time," Bartelstein told ESPN. "We had prep calls, stayed up late the night before working together on the presentation and it all paid off. Mat led and it went really well."

Ishbia has heard the stories and warnings about so-called new owner syndrome, the winding history of freshly minted governors making overaggressive mistakes in their first months. Mikhail Prokhorov, the former Brooklyn Nets owner who pushed for what became an infamous trade for Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce, is at the top of a list, among other examples.”

Really great read. It gives me the confidence that we're doing everything we can to win. Yes, we could still ultimately not win but like with most things in life, there are no guarantees and the best you can do is to put your best foot forward and hope we have the perfect combination the right decisions made, the resources spent and a sprinkle of luck to win.

I really love that Ishbia is walking the walk. After two decades of Sarver talking the talk about wanting a competitive team but when it came down decisions that would really advance this team's chances to compete, he does the opposite and either sell off assets to lower salary or nickel and dime important role players just because he can.

A lot of Ishbia's moves are still very much in the vein of new owner energy so we'll see if it holds up when he faces multiple years of possibly hundreds of millions in tax payments but what he's doing and what he's saying so far has been exactly what you want to see and hear.

[Mulhollanddrive]

I think the Ishbia involvement is perfect for greenlighting and paying for 2 big star players.

But can he stay out of coaching and rotations and roster construction when we lose a few games?

Also Windhorst is my favourite reporter he gets the juicy information.

[sunsbum]

Fewer dunks too which might bother a lot of people.

. I know you say this as a little rib shot to the Ayton haters that think he should dunk more but it’s kind lame because in fact he should be finishing stronger. That’ll never happen though, we both know that.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I think the Ishbia involvement is perfect for greenlighting and paying for 2 big star players.

But can he stay out of coaching and rotations and roster construction when we lose a few games?

Also Windhorst is my favourite reporter he gets the juicy information.

I think there is a balance every new owner has to find with their involvement. Takes some time with some of them.

I'm not surprised he's all in on this. I have a friend who knew Mat from his MSU days and said back then he was a huge basketball junkie and overall sports fan. I'm sure he's living out his life long dream.

I respect the all in approach and I like that he's treating this like a big market team. Suns have been sleeping giants for too long with a cheap turd or an owner.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

[sunsbg]

"Jones was a driving force in the decision to fire Monty Williams, sources tell Windhorst".

Most thought it's Ishbia/Isaiah behind this decision, but apparently it was Jones who was pushing for a championship level coach.

[Fo-Real]

Tomorrow is the day to see if he is staying!! If rumors strangely pick way up Tomorrow, there might be fire at the base of all that smoke!!

[Saberestar]

Our goal seems to be zero continuity.

Yeah, like every other team in the league.

How much does the NBA change over in 5 years?

None of the 30 NBA teams have more than 4 players left from the 2018-19 rosters

8 teams have no players left from the 2018-19 season

Read on Twitter