European teams vs the NBA

[Mirotic12]

And Barca just signed Willy Hernangomez to a salary that is equal to $10 million a season in the NBA.

That's not true.

€4.3 million euros net = $4.828 million US dollars net.

Out of for example, a $10 million NBA gross deal, the player loses federal taxes, state taxes (even if they play in a state with no state tax, NBA players still pay the taxes on road games), and local taxes. Plus, that gross $10 million NBA salary loses the NBA retirement fund fees, the player union fees, and the agent fees.

All in all, said by agencies to be about 60% of gross NBA contract comes off for the players in US states without a state tax (like Texas and Florida), and about 63% comes off a gross NBA contract for the players that play in states with the state tax.

Let's just take the smaller figure of 60%. So that leaves $4 million US dollars net income left out of a gross $10 million NBA deal. While in Barca, he would make $4.828 million US net income. So actually, that contract is worth a lot more than a $10 million NBA gross deal.

It's more like $12 million gross in the NBA. $12 million minus 60% = $4.8 million

So yeah, actually that net income amount is the equivalent of about $12 million a season gross in the NBA.

[Bergmaniac]

Why do you think that being fast while carrying the ball doesn't require elite athleticism? What Messi was able to do in his prime when he was going full speed with the ball in his feet required absolutely elite quickness, acceleration, balance and agility, all of which are key athletic traits, not to mention downright freakish eye-foot coordination.

Strength is a significant part of athleticism, obviously it's not everything, but I've never understood the popular mentality among basketball fans where athleticism is reduced only to quickness, explosiveness and jumping ability.

I'm not saying that Messi is a slouch by any mean (obviously nobody on that big of a stage is), just that extrapolating that NBA stars would dominate soccer because of their athletic abilities alone is a naive take. Again, soccer requires a lot more abilities than are way more important than athleticism. In relative terms to his peers, Messi is not extremely athletic, yet he is the best (or among the bests). In basketball you can pretty much get a physical freak, or a 7 foot guy, and turn it into a proficient basketball player. That doesnt happen in soccer, it requires a natural talent and 'feeling' for the game that is not dependant on physical abilities.

I think you are really underrating how important athleticism is in soccer, especially nowadays. The game has become much more physically demanding than it was even 20 years ago and compared to 40 years ago the diffence is huge. The top players in most positions need to have a combination of great stamina, pace and explosiveness. Top teams rely on extremely physically demanding pressing schemes more and more each year.

NBA players won't dominate in soccer because their athleticism is of a pretty different type and not particularly useful in soccer and because being over 6'4" is a negative, not an advantage, in soccer, not because athleticism isn't hugely important in soccer. It's a bit less important than in the NBA, but I strongly disagree that modern soccer requires "a lot more abilities than are [b]way more important than athleticism". If you can't keep up with the ever increasing demands for stamina and quickness, you don't have much of a shot to become a soccer star nowadays.

And I still disagree with the claim that Messi in his prime wasn't extremely athletic relative to his peer. He was among the quickest and most explosive players in the world and in terms of balance and agility he was and still is in a league of his own.

[sisibilio]

And Barca just signed Willy Hernangomez to a salary that is equal to $10 million a season in the NBA.

That's not true.

€4.3 million euros net = $4.828 million US dollars net.

Out of for example, a $10 million NBA gross deal, the player loses federal taxes, state taxes (even if they play in a state with no state tax, NBA players still pay the taxes on road games), and local taxes. Plus, that gross $10 million NBA salary loses the NBA retirement fund fees, the player union fees, and the agent fees.

All in all, said by agencies to be about 60% of gross NBA contract comes off for the players in US states without a state tax (like Texas and Florida), and about 63% comes off a gross NBA contract for the players that play in states with the state tax.

Let's just take the smaller figure of 60%. So that leaves $4 million US dollars net income left out of a gross $10 million NBA deal. While in Barca, he would make $4.828 million US net income. So actually, that contract is worth a lot more than a $10 million NBA gross deal.

It's more like $12 million gross in the NBA. $12 million minus 60% = $4.8 million

So yeah, actually that net income amount is the equivalent of about $12 million a season gross in the NBA.

He'll be making 4.2 mill gross, including taxes. The agent fees and all that also exist in Europe, IDK what that has to do with anything.

[Mirotic12]

That's not true.

€4.3 million euros net = $4.828 million US dollars net.

Out of for example, a $10 million NBA gross deal, the player loses federal taxes, state taxes (even if they play in a state with no state tax, NBA players still pay the taxes on road games), and local taxes. Plus, that gross $10 million NBA salary loses the NBA retirement fund fees, the player union fees, and the agent fees.

All in all, said by agencies to be about 60% of gross NBA contract comes off for the players in US states without a state tax (like Texas and Florida), and about 63% comes off a gross NBA contract for the players that play in states with the state tax.

Let's just take the smaller figure of 60%. So that leaves $4 million US dollars net income left out of a gross $10 million NBA deal. While in Barca, he would make $4.828 million US net income. So actually, that contract is worth a lot more than a $10 million NBA gross deal.

It's more like $12 million gross in the NBA. $12 million minus 60% = $4.8 million

So yeah, actually that net income amount is the equivalent of about $12 million a season gross in the NBA.

He'll be making 4.2 mill gross, including taxes. The agent fees and all that also exist in Europe, IDK what that has to do with anything.

He's making that net. The clubs pay the taxes and the agent fees.

[Lepramaniac]

Why do you think that being fast while carrying the ball doesn't require elite athleticism? What Messi was able to do in his prime when he was going full speed with the ball in his feet required absolutely elite quickness, acceleration, balance and agility, all of which are key athletic traits, not to mention downright freakish eye-foot coordination.

Strength is a significant part of athleticism, obviously it's not everything, but I've never understood the popular mentality among basketball fans where athleticism is reduced only to quickness, explosiveness and jumping ability.

I'm not saying that Messi is a slouch by any mean (obviously nobody on that big of a stage is), just that extrapolating that NBA stars would dominate soccer because of their athletic abilities alone is a naive take. Again, soccer requires a lot more abilities than are way more important than athleticism. In relative terms to his peers, Messi is not extremely athletic, yet he is the best (or among the bests). In basketball you can pretty much get a physical freak, or a 7 foot guy, and turn it into a proficient basketball player. That doesnt happen in soccer, it requires a natural talent and 'feeling' for the game that is not dependant on physical abilities.

I think you are really underrating how important athleticism is in soccer, especially nowadays. The game has become much more physically demanding than it was even 20 years ago and compared to 40 years ago the diffence is huge. The top players in most positions need to have a combination of great stamina, pace and explosiveness. Top teams rely on extremely physically demanding pressing schemes more and more each year.

NBA players won't dominate in soccer because their athleticism is of a pretty different type and not particularly useful in soccer and because being over 6'4" is a negative, not an advantage, in soccer, not because athleticism isn't hugely important in soccer. It's a bit less important than in the NBA, but I strongly disagree that modern soccer requires "a lot more abilities than are [b]way more important than athleticism". If you can't keep up with the ever increasing demands for stamina and quickness, you don't have much of a shot to become a soccer star nowadays.

And I still disagree with the claim that Messi in his prime wasn't extremely athletic relative to his peer. He was among the quickest and most explosive players in the world and in terms of balance and agility he was and still is in a league of his own.

In my opinion, stamina is more important in soccer than athleticism. Soccer players are expected to run for 2 halves of 45 minutes each without any timeouts or breaks and that requires very good physical condition. I don't know if its lack of athleticism of just a massive expenditure of energy but even in high level soccer games, its normal to see players not being able to run anymore at the end of games, and this doesn't happen much in basketball. Again, not saying that athleticism doesn't matter, just that it doesn't directly translate into a good soccer player. For example, we know Lebron would probably we a good player in any sport that is heavily dependent on physical abilities. However, we have no idea if he would be even a decent soccer player, since the skills required in this sport go beyond that. I remember this Argentinian player, Juan Roman Riquelme, which would walk for the entire game and barely run at all, but he had such a good skill controlling the pace of the game, controlling the ball and knowing how to pass that he managed to be among the world's 10 best players in the world, despite all these physical limitations.

[Pachinko_]

That thing where people say Lebron would be best at any sport because he's big and strong is just dumb, stop it. Just stop it LOL
Some of the best players in soccer are bowlegged midgets who weigh as much as Lebron's left buttock. It's a specialised sport with specialised requirements, they don't take all-purpose athletes and figure out what to do with them later. Maybe you can do that in American football, I don't know, but definitely not in soccer. To get anywhere in soccer you have to be twitchy as **** and start from 10 years old and play soccer exclusively and obsessively.

[Lalouie]

in keepin with the usa versus europe theme

what are their basketball forums like

or are the europeans too busy farming and making ends meet to bother with silly message boards

[Swuul]

He'll be making 4.2 mill gross, including taxes. The agent fees and all that also exist in Europe, IDK what that has to do with anything.

Nope, in pro-sports in Europe the teams take care of the taxes and the agent fees. The players recieve the net sum.

The players have to take care of taxes for everything else though, like sponsorship deals etc, which is why many high-profile athletes (like Messi, Neymar, Ronaldo, etc) have got into legal problems (the whole idea they have to pay taxes is alien to them, and instead of hiring an accountant to run these things some high-profile athletes prefer to have their dad or mum or uncle or whatever to handle their stuff).

[Nuntius]

NBA players won't dominate in soccer because their athleticism is of a pretty different type and not particularly useful in soccer and because being over 6'4" is a negative, not an advantage, in soccer

And I believe that this was exactly that Lepramaniac's point. They were trying to point out to Almond2Oak how wrong was their point that NBA players like LeBron could have easily dominated association football had they wanted to.

[cornchip]

NBA players won't dominate in soccer because their athleticism is of a pretty different type and not particularly useful in soccer and because being over 6'4" is a negative, not an advantage, in soccer

And I believe that this was exactly that Lepramaniac's point. They were trying to point out to Almond2Oak how wrong was their point that NBA players like LeBron could have easily dominated association football had they wanted to.

I think it was the wrong way to make a very true point. Non-Americans fundamentally misunderstand American sports culture and youth development.

It's not that Soccer isn't the top sport that young Americans play growing up or that it's behind basketball. It's that it's like the 6th or 7th sport in some areas of the US (particularly in places like Texas, Florida, Georgia, Ohio, Carolinas that produces top tier professional athletes).

It's clearly behind American Football, baseball, and basketball. In alot of areas, its behind hockey, lacrosse, and track and field. So it's not just Lebron, its Patrick Mahomes, Mike Trout, Steph Curry, Clayton Kershaw, Lamar Jackson, Michael Phelps, Christian McCaffrey, Gable Stevenson, Anthony Edwards, Patrick Kane, Russell Westbrook, Aaron Judge, Auston Matthews, Aaron Rodgers who maybe never even touched a soccer ball.

[Nuntius]

NBA players won't dominate in soccer because their athleticism is of a pretty different type and not particularly useful in soccer and because being over 6'4" is a negative, not an advantage, in soccer

And I believe that this was exactly that Lepramaniac's point. They were trying to point out to Almond2Oak how wrong was their point that NBA players like LeBron could have easily dominated association football had they wanted to.

I think it was the wrong way to make a very true point. Non-Americans fundamentally misunderstand American sports culture and youth development.

It's not that Soccer isn't the top sport that young Americans play growing up or that it's behind basketball. It's that it's like the 6th or 7th sport in some areas of the US (particularly in places like Texas, Florida, Georgia, Ohio, Carolinas that produces top tier professional athletes).

It's clearly behind American Football, baseball, and basketball. In alot of areas, its behind hockey, lacrosse, and track and field. So it's not just Lebron, its Patrick Mahomes, Mike Trout, Steph Curry, Clayton Kershaw, Lamar Jackson, Michael Phelps, Christian McCaffrey, Gable Stevenson, Anthony Edwards, Patrick Kane, Russell Westbrook, Aaron Judge, Auston Matthews, Aaron Rodgers who maybe never even touched a soccer ball.

Oh, I get it. It's a sport that you largely do not care about. Nothing wrong with that. Every culture has their own sports that they value. That's normal.

The point that Lepramaniac was making, though, was that the athletic gifts required for associated football are way different than the athletic gifts required for other sports, especially basketball. Just because a player is very athletic for one sport, it doesn't mean that his athleticism will matter for an entirely different sport. Different sports require different athletic traits, that's all. That's why Almond2Oak was fundamentally misunderstanding what matters for association football players.

[Lepramaniac]

And I believe that this was exactly that Lepramaniac's point. They were trying to point out to Almond2Oak how wrong was their point that NBA players like LeBron could have easily dominated association football had they wanted to.

I think it was the wrong way to make a very true point. Non-Americans fundamentally misunderstand American sports culture and youth development.

It's not that Soccer isn't the top sport that young Americans play growing up or that it's behind basketball. It's that it's like the 6th or 7th sport in some areas of the US (particularly in places like Texas, Florida, Georgia, Ohio, Carolinas that produces top tier professional athletes).

It's clearly behind American Football, baseball, and basketball. In alot of areas, its behind hockey, lacrosse, and track and field. So it's not just Lebron, its Patrick Mahomes, Mike Trout, Steph Curry, Clayton Kershaw, Lamar Jackson, Michael Phelps, Christian McCaffrey, Gable Stevenson, Anthony Edwards, Patrick Kane, Russell Westbrook, Aaron Judge, Auston Matthews, Aaron Rodgers who maybe never even touched a soccer ball.

Oh, I get it. It's a sport that you largely do not care about. Nothing wrong with that. Every culture has their own sports that they value. That's normal.

The point that Lepramaniac was making, though, was that the athletic gifts required for associated football are way different than the athletic gifts required for other sports, especially basketball. Just because a player is very athletic for one sport, it doesn't mean that his athleticism will matter for an entirely different sport. Different sports require different athletic traits, that's all. That's why Almond2Oak was fundamentally misunderstanding what matters for association football players.

Indeed, this was exactly my point. That USA could be very good at soccer if instead of being the 6th or 7th most practiced sport, it was number 1? maybe, maybe not... who knows. But thinking that because it has the best athletes, this would automatically translate into dominating the sport if they grew up playing soccer, yeah, that's not correct.

[Goon]

This is true, why love a sport where they won’t ever dominate? To that end, i understand the European athletes and fans so they settle with soccer.

Well, they are already dominating the best player categories over American players despite not dedicating much attention to basketball:

2023 MVP: Embiid
2022 MVP: Jokic
2021 MVP: Jokic
2020 MVP: Antetokounmpo
2019 MVP: Antetokounmpo

I guess that if Europeans would dedicate to basketball the time and money the dedicate to football, they would dominate that sport globally as well. Talent in sports in general is higher in Europe than in the US (EU has double the number of gold medals won in Olympics games than the US, for example)

JOJo is from Africa… how is he EU. Mbah got him to stop playing Volleyball & Soccer. Then Jo came to America, was a 5* recruit and had Rick Pitno call him a top 3 pick his senior year at Montverde, before Kansas scooped him up the same class as Andrew Wiggins.

Now imagine if the US gave 1 crap about soccer and put our best athletes in the most boring sport what it would do globally. Hell let’s put 6’9 Bron (at his peak coming out of HS) as a goal tender, then threw all Americas best on a soccer field and trained them to pass a ball 87,000x in 1 game just how hysterical it would be. America would OWN soccer, just like it owns Football, Basketball, Baseball. The problem is America doesn’t want to watch 1-0 sporting events where there is maybe 9 shots total on goal, so no kid wants to play Futbol. If America spent just half what it does on the NFL, CFB, NBA it would run circles around the world in Soccer.

Second paragraph reads like it was written by a 10 year old. Jezus.

[Hellcrooner]

Oh!
shocking news
Now i get to see the man the legend Jahil Okafor every weekend live on the court!!!

[Jamaaliver]

Didn't want to start a new thread just for the quote, but...

Hmmmmm

[CumberlandPosey]

sentence for sentence and it makes some sense.

el might not be the best league in the world----well hes right

you have to think to be able to play--ofc.what a statement.true for any league.

nba is acrobatics,more for the fans--its entertainment sherlock until it gets serious.

regarding el being the smartest league--well lets just say that i find that too broad a brush by alen smailagic.

[og15]

That thing where people say Lebron would be best at any sport because he's big and strong is just dumb, stop it. Just stop it LOL
Some of the best players in soccer are bowlegged midgets who weigh as much as Lebron's left buttock. It's a specialised sport with specialised requirements, they don't take all-purpose athletes and figure out what to do with them later. Maybe you can do that in American football, I don't know, but definitely not in soccer. To get anywhere in soccer you have to be twitchy as **** and start from 10 years old and play soccer exclusively and obsessively.

Doesn't have to be exclusively, but you are right on the other aspects. You don't just grab an athlete past a certain age and make them a high level soccer player, just like you don't do the same thing for tennis. While physical tools are not irrelevant, you're not learning the level of touch needed for be a great soccer player in a few years if starting from nothing.

Now, this is different from players who didn't play organized soccer or club soccer then started playing club at 15 or 16 and went pro later, but those guys didn't just first start the sport at the later age and would be already very skilled.

[azcatz11]

Who cares. The best players go where the money is and that's the NBA. It's like watching porn and saying you're watching the girl for their personality...uh huh

[DutchManDanFan]

Not all European countries are into basketball that much.

That the best European players come to the NBA prevents them from having an NBA level team. With the uneven European structure, without players leaving you'd probably have a team like Madrid paring Luka with a Giannis or a Jokic and being able to compete with NBA teams.

This is pretty much my point. And Europe has the financial base to make this happen…so why isn’t it?

It's the same with Messi and all the other stars from S-America. Their best years they play in the best competition: in Europe.

[cornchip]

Didn't want to start a new thread just for the quote, but...

Hmmmmm

I think there's some truth there but at the end of the day, talent beats all. NBA teams don't really have to be as "smart" because the high end players are so good.