Re-Signed: The PJ Washington Jr. Thread (3yrs/$48m)

[SWedd523]

We overpaid to keep guys around Like Marv, Zeller, Batum, etc. and maxed out the salary cap for half a decade chasing mediocrity.

Personally, I'm glad Mitch isn't just tossing money at non-needle movers. I'd prefer he'd just trade them, but es lo que es

[fatlever]

fair enough, but if the plan isnt to build thru the draft, then perhaps mitch should stop trying to convince us thats the only way. allowing miles and pj to walk next year signals a pivot to building via free agency.

[SWedd523]

fair enough, but if the plan isnt to build thru the draft, then perhaps mitch should stop trying to convince us thats the only way. allowing miles and pj to walk next year signals a pivot to building via free agency.

Why? Should they extend Bouk and Kai?

Building through the draft means retaining the right player, not every player. Just because he doesn't want to overpay guys who aren't that good doesn't signal a shift in approach.

Miles not being retained has nothing to do with his play and everything to do with his off court actions.

[LofJ]

I actually think we'll throw the bag at Miles next year if he's the same player he was before. Maybe that's why we don't want to pay PJ?

[fatlever]

fair enough, but if the plan isnt to build thru the draft, then perhaps mitch should stop trying to convince us thats the only way. allowing miles and pj to walk next year signals a pivot to building via free agency.

Why? Should they extend Bouk and Kai?

Building through the draft means retaining the right player, not every player. Just because he doesn't want to overpay guys who aren't that good doesn't signal a shift in approach.

Miles not being retained has nothing to do with his play and everything to do with his off court actions.

not sure how you came to this conclusion from my posts on this topic. do you really think what i'm saying is equivalent to lets sign kai and bouk? no, certainly not. youre just trying to be cheeky. whatever.

[SWedd523]

not sure how you came to the conclusion that not signing Miles and PJ meant a shift in direction away from building through the draft.

[fatlever]

I actually think we'll throw the bag at Miles next year if he's the same player he was before. Maybe that's why we don't want to pay PJ?

possibly.
if they have miles a priority, doubt they want both on big deals (although i think pj would be a highly tradeable piece on ~16-18 mil)
i'm almost certain that if both pj and miles accept QO that we wont resign both. if miles plays well, we are going to pay alot.
i see no scenario where pj plays so well he earns 20+, just not enough shots or minutes.
the risk of losing both for nothing is real, then what? we spend the first 24 hours of FA next summer trying to resign one or both only for both to leave, then we have big cap space, but all the top forwards are signed elsewhere.
if hornets were not willing to offer pj 16-18, at the expense of him signing QO, why not just trade him at deadline for an asset? certainly they knew from prev negotiations he wasnt going to accept 13-15. its a move that i dont understand. so if pj had signed an offer of 16 per with another team, would we have matched? were we only willing to play that if another team was, even if it risks losing him for nothing?
its poor asset management
if this bluff works out for mitch and pj caves and signs for 15 or less, then hats off to mitch.

[fatlever]

not sure how you came to the conclusion that not signing Miles and PJ meant a shift in direction away from building through the draft.

because both miles and pj on QO risks losing both next year (along with gordon), possibly leaving a massive hole at forward, with no draft prospects on roster anywhere close to contributing on their level. we are gunning for playoffs with melo entering his extension. we added zero vets this summer. melo, terry, cody and 12 guys on rookie deals is not going to win, so that signals a shift to replacing gordon, miles, pj with free agents (not guys on rookie deals). we'd also have to meet min salary.

[SWedd523]

not sure how you came to the conclusion that not signing Miles and PJ meant a shift in direction away from building through the draft.

because both miles and pj on QO risks losing both next year (along with gordon), possibly leaving a massive hole at forward, with no draft prospects on roster anywhere close to contributing on their level. we are gunning for playoffs with melo entering his extension. we added zero vets this summer. melo, terry, cody and 12 guys on rookie deals is not going to win, so that signals a shift to replacing gordon, miles, pj with free agents (not guys on rookie deals). we'd also have to meet min salary.

Adding zero vets tends to say they aren't shifting away from the draft as the main means of adding guys...

The only major move they made this summer was drafting a wing, which, I have to assume means they expect him to replace one of Miles/PJ sooner or later. Sounds like they're focused on the draft as the main means of adding guys...

All of that cap space and salary floor talk goes away when (if) they give Miles a big contract next off season.


Much ado about nothing.


(They should've traded PJ or Miles if they didn't want to overpay)

[fatlever]

paying pj 16-18 isnt an overpay compared to comps around league. its only an overpay if you think there is a world where pj resigns for 15 or less.

1) either you think pj is worth 16-18, if so pay him
2) you dont think he's worth it, therefore you trade him at the deadline
or
3) playing chicken in hopes he caves and signs for cheaper or he sign QO and leaves, who cares, we get him on a cheap deal for another year, totally worth it

[SWedd523]

paying pj 16-18 isnt an overpay compared to comps around league. its only an overpay if you think there is a world where pj resigns for 15 or less.

1) either you think pj is worth 16-18, if so pay him
2) you dont think he's worth it, therefore you trade him at the deadline
or
3) playing chicken in hopes he caves and signs for cheaper or he sign QO and leaves, who cares, we get him on a cheap deal for another year, totally worth it

Bolded for emphasis.

[fatlever]

I could have lived with #2 because it at least signaled a plan B

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[Rays Pompadour]

The market didn't materialize for Washington in his restricted year. No big offers came. No buzz other than some Dallas stuff. Shrug.

The Hornets have a value on PJ. Going higher when they don't have to would be stupid. Some say he can get 20+ next summer on the open market. Big risk, if you ask me. If I'm the Hornets, I ride out his QO year when he's hungry and make a play to re-sign him next summer. If they lose him...shrug. Best of luck to the fool franchise who backs up the brinks truck.

Personally, I predict the market will be tepid for PJ Washington next summer if he makes it that far. Mostly because I think he's a torn hamstring away from a lengthy stay on the IL and a disastrous devaluation. But also because of who he'll be competing with for free agency dollars -

Miles Bridges.

[Diop]

Didn’t they shop Pj last year as well? I’m sure I read that

[Rich4114]

Either they want Pj and see him as key part of a team that will win playoff series or they see him as a reserve role player in that scenario. This is making it look like it’s the latter. I see him as a solid starter on a team that wins in the playoffs and those guys have been getting $15-$23m per.

Here’s another way of looking at it. How can you look at Terry Rozier and say “yeah he’s easily worth $23m per season” and eagerly sign him to a huge extension a year earlier than you needed to and then look at Pj and also say “nah doesn’t offer enough for this team, only worth the MLE or less”?

I’m no GM but anyone who watches this team regularly would see that PJ offers something not a lot of other guys on this roster offer which is efficiency on both ends and more importantly, is actually clutch. You can’t say that about anyone else besides LaMelo and one fluke Terry season.

PJ at anywhere below $20m is a good deal for both parties.

[Spider156]

Hello Charlotte fans. Hope you guys get a better coach one day.

Would you guys take Bagley for PJ Washington SnT?

[JMAC3]

Hello Charlotte fans. Hope you guys get a better coach one day.

Would you guys take Bagley for PJ Washington SnT?

Never lol… Bagley is a bad contract, would rather let Pj walk for nothing

[JMAC3]

If someone would have signed PJ to a 16 million dollar deal I think Hornets would have matched pretty quick. They probably don’t want to lose him for nothing this year. However they didn’t, so Hornets aren’t in a hurry to hand out a long contract when the demand isn’t or wasn’t there. Even still it doesn’t seem like teams are rushing to work a sign and trade for PJ and give him the money he wants.

Pj can take the QO but he will be losing 5-6 million this year without the guarantee that a deal larger than 15 million even exists next year. Especially if he isn’t a starter. Teams aren’t handing out 20 million to guys who have been coming off the bench for a mediocre to bad team.

Hornets have a decent amount of leverage just because PJ would be a taking a larger pay cut this year to take QO. Just a major risk he is a Christian Wood or Malik Monk guy next offseason that takes another prove it deal because teams spend elsewhere. Then he is making below market 2 years in a row and on a new team with a new role, just a lot of risk for him to take.

[amcoolio]

The best option is to SnT PJ. We just can't be paying Rozier and Washington long term contracts around the same number if this team wants to go anywhere. They are both bottom 10 starters at their position

[countryboi]

We overpaid to keep guys around Like Marv, Zeller, Batum, etc. and maxed out the salary cap for half a decade chasing mediocrity.

Personally, I'm glad Mitch isn't just tossing money at non-needle movers. I'd prefer he'd just trade them, but es lo que es

I hate the idea of coaching up these guys just so they can excel with someone else but PJ also seems capped out.