Miami Heat Off-season Thread 9.0 - Dame’s BBW Edition

[miamiballer]

Heat prob have an offer on the table (not their best) and don’t feel the need to increase it as of now

Blazers are holding out until sep in case another team offers a better deal, heat cave or dame expands his list or changes his mind

If nothing happens by sep I believe that they will reach back out to us and work something out

It’s annoying and blazers aren’t making it easy but they are just delaying the inevitable in my opinion

[IceColdCubano]

Heat prob have an offer on the table (not their best) and don’t feel the need to increase it as of now

Blazers are holding out until sep in case another team offers a better deal, heat cave or dame expands his list or changes his mind

If nothing happens by sep I believe that they will reach back out to us and work something out

It’s annoying and blazers aren’t making it easy but they are just delaying the inevitable in my opinion

The Portland owner, most likely told Cronin im not signing off on a trade to Miami anytime soon, figure out elsewhere or come bacl to me after a couple months if theres nothing else on the table.

[CrossOver]

Read on Twitter

[Kobewade11]

Woj keeps pushing this no deadlines/late September crap. Im pretty sure this is the kind of thing schedule makers would love to have resolved well before then.

[Rapaz]

Heat receive:
Damian Lillard
Jusuf Nurkic

Blazers receive:
Four first-round picks. Three from Miami (2024, 2028, 2030). One from the third team.
Three first-round swaps, all from Miami (2025, 2027, 2029).
Caleb Martin
Nikola Jovic
Jaime Jaquez Jr.
Haywood Highsmith
Kyle Lowry
Matching salary X from third team

Third team receives:
Tyler Herro

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/what-can-the-heat-actually-offer-for-damian-lillard-and-why-are-the-blazers-so-hesitant-to-accept-it/

http://www.sportstwo.com/threads/would-you-take-this-all-in-miami-trade-if-offered.382404/

[Tony15]

LOL

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

[SoFlaKingReal]

Heat receive:
Damian Lillard
Jusuf Nurkic

Blazers receive:
Four first-round picks. Three from Miami (2024, 2028, 2030). One from the third team.
Three first-round swaps, all from Miami (2025, 2027, 2029).
Caleb Martin
Nikola Jovic
Jaime Jaquez Jr.
Haywood Highsmith
Kyle Lowry
Matching salary X from third team

Third team receives:
Tyler Herro

It would hurt at first, but I'd still do the deal.

Lillard/Dragic
J-Rich/Duncan
Butler
Bam/K. Love
Nurkic/T. Bryant

[AirP.]

This is interesting that it seemed to get close before stalling out...

Read on Twitter

[ShulaDon92]

Read on Twitter

Good. After the Duncan debacle, just stop playing the overpay game.

The ship is solid.

-SHULA

[ShulaDon92]

Good dose of perspective:

https://www.reddit.com/r/heat/comments/14wuzn5/how_long_does_it_usually_take_for_a_blockbuster/

A lot of us have been getting anxious about if and when a Damian Lillard deal will be made. Stemming from the boredom that comes from that anticipation, I looked at the length of some comparable offseason trade sagas where:

A. The trade demand/catalyst started in the offseason.
B. The trade was completed before the start of the next season.

So here are 6 deals from the last ~30 years that met those parameters:

Charles Barkley

6/5/1996-6/16/1996: Barkley threatens to retire if not traded to a contender in an interview with NBC during the Finals. Expresses desire to play for the Rockets.

8/19/1996: Barkley traded to Rockets

75 to 86 days

Tracy McGrady

6/18/2004: T-Mac requests a trade from Orlando

6/30/2004: McGrady dealt to Houston

12 days

Shaquille O’Neal

6/19/2004: Shaq demands a trade

7/11/2004: Lakers agree to trade Shaq to Miami

22 days

Kevin Garnett

6/28/2007: Celtics acquire Ray Allen on draft night. (This was the turning point where KG said he was open to getting traded to Boston)

7/31/2007:Kevin Garnett traded to Boston

33 days

Kyrie Irving

7/7/2017: Kyrie Irving demands trade

8/22/2017: Kyrie is traded to the Celtics

46 days

Kawhi Leonard

6/15/2018: Kawhi demands a trade to Los Angeles

7/18/2018: Kawhi traded to Toronto

33 days

Some takeaways:

the shortest period between trade demand and trade was the T-Mac deal to Houston, which was 12 days. We are on day 11 since Lillard formally requested a trade.

the longest period between trade demand and trade was the Barkley trade (also to Houston), where he dead-ass threatened to retire if he didn’t get traded to a contender, preferably the Rockets

Two trades (Kyrie Irving and Kawhi Leonard) I was able to find specific “traded destination lists”. Neither was sent to their preferred destinations (Kawhi famously wanted to go to Los Angeles, Lakers or Clippers. Kyrie gave a list of San Antonio, Minnesota, Miami and the Knicks)

None of these trades are 1:1 identical to the Lillard situation, but the KG trade saga is probably the closest: 12 years with the same team, 8 consecutive playoff appearances and 1 conference finals appearance, teams began shifting to a rebuild while they were still on the team, neither had/has a NTC but KG had enough standing in the org to nix a draft day deal to Boston (which ironically ended up becoming the Ray Allen trade that would sell Garnett on getting traded there later in the summer)

Let me know if I missed any other blockbusters that would fit in this group! Would love to add some other cases for further discussion.

Day 14 since the trade was requested

This is a great list. Excellent research.

How about James Harden??

-SHULA

[MiamiLoyal926]

It's quite possible he was hired to make this transition from Lillard to a new build and although what he's doing should be toxic to high level FA, they don't get all that many free agents and if the younger guys are good which Scoot, Sharp and Simons may be, the fanbase will be fine moving forward and will be good bringing Lillard back to retire his jersey.

These young guys idolize dame and will never be dame, they’re seeing how Cronin operates with him so they know he’ll do the same or worse for them. They might walk for free when it’s all said and done.

Right. Players want their team to do what is best for a guy who thinks they are bums unworthy of being his teammate, rather than what is in their own best interest.

I get what you are saying… but at the same time, when one of the most iconic players of your franchise’s history, who gave you 11 years of devotion, and was willing to continue to give more time had you made moves to compete… is being treated this way… what does that say about what lesser players should expect? Scoot, Simons, Sharpe… take notice.

I used to have to sign 1 year contracts since I worked for the school system… could you imagine if I worked in Miami one day, and the next day I have to work in Cleveland because administration decided to send me there… and since I am under contract, I have to do it. Or vice versa… I can’t be allowed to move to another city, even though I have a better job offer there, because my current employer holds some sort of non-compete, or has me under contract.

Now, I get that a contract is intended for just that… but I got out of a contract my last year in Miami, to pursue a better job in Orlando. My employer took into account my devotion and contribution over 12 years, and also recognized that the Director position I was being offered in Orlando was already filled for them…. So what did they do? They allowed me to break contract without penalty.

Point is… Portland isn’t just waiving a penalty… they are getting actual valuable assets in return. A decent package considering Dame’s age and contract size. Not far fetched to expect Portland to do the right thing here.

[MiamiLoyal926]

I like the idea of Miami going "look, here's our offer... this might not be there at the deadline." At the very least I think it makes Portland consider getting rid of him by training camp. Other than that, Portland is doing the smart thing here unfortunately. They have no reason to rush this, and the Heat do.

This how I’m thinking, say we give up what Portland is asking for which is basically our future. Then and January he has a major injury because at his age that’s higher risk. Then we end up in a terrible position with no future but paying an often injured guy all that money not to play. I remember when Kyle missed that time and fans was on his ass and he’s not even getting half of what dame is owed. Keep him Portland. Paying a guy all that money to not make the playoffs is hilarious. If dame was 27 yeah throw the house at him, 33 naw I’m good.

I tried to express this in here… but some where appalled that a comparison to Lowry’s tenure here was even made! Best of luck… hopefully others take to your proposition/concern better.

[MiamiLoyal926]

Good dose of perspective:

https://www.reddit.com/r/heat/comments/14wuzn5/how_long_does_it_usually_take_for_a_blockbuster/

A lot of us have been getting anxious about if and when a Damian Lillard deal will be made. Stemming from the boredom that comes from that anticipation, I looked at the length of some comparable offseason trade sagas where:

A. The trade demand/catalyst started in the offseason.
B. The trade was completed before the start of the next season.

So here are 6 deals from the last ~30 years that met those parameters:

Charles Barkley

6/5/1996-6/16/1996: Barkley threatens to retire if not traded to a contender in an interview with NBC during the Finals. Expresses desire to play for the Rockets.

8/19/1996: Barkley traded to Rockets

75 to 86 days

Tracy McGrady

6/18/2004: T-Mac requests a trade from Orlando

6/30/2004: McGrady dealt to Houston

12 days

Shaquille O’Neal

6/19/2004: Shaq demands a trade

7/11/2004: Lakers agree to trade Shaq to Miami

22 days

Kevin Garnett

6/28/2007: Celtics acquire Ray Allen on draft night. (This was the turning point where KG said he was open to getting traded to Boston)

7/31/2007:Kevin Garnett traded to Boston

33 days

Kyrie Irving

7/7/2017: Kyrie Irving demands trade

8/22/2017: Kyrie is traded to the Celtics

46 days

Kawhi Leonard

6/15/2018: Kawhi demands a trade to Los Angeles

7/18/2018: Kawhi traded to Toronto

33 days

Some takeaways:

the shortest period between trade demand and trade was the T-Mac deal to Houston, which was 12 days. We are on day 11 since Lillard formally requested a trade.

the longest period between trade demand and trade was the Barkley trade (also to Houston), where he dead-ass threatened to retire if he didn’t get traded to a contender, preferably the Rockets

Two trades (Kyrie Irving and Kawhi Leonard) I was able to find specific “traded destination lists”. Neither was sent to their preferred destinations (Kawhi famously wanted to go to Los Angeles, Lakers or Clippers. Kyrie gave a list of San Antonio, Minnesota, Miami and the Knicks)

None of these trades are 1:1 identical to the Lillard situation, but the KG trade saga is probably the closest: 12 years with the same team, 8 consecutive playoff appearances and 1 conference finals appearance, teams began shifting to a rebuild while they were still on the team, neither had/has a NTC but KG had enough standing in the org to nix a draft day deal to Boston (which ironically ended up becoming the Ray Allen trade that would sell Garnett on getting traded there later in the summer)

Let me know if I missed any other blockbusters that would fit in this group! Would love to add some other cases for further discussion.

Day 14 since the trade was requested

Keep this up!!! Love the countdown… or should I say “the passed time since incident” updates.

[IceColdCubano]

I like the idea of Miami going "look, here's our offer... this might not be there at the deadline." At the very least I think it makes Portland consider getting rid of him by training camp. Other than that, Portland is doing the smart thing here unfortunately. They have no reason to rush this, and the Heat do.

This how I’m thinking, say we give up what Portland is asking for which is basically our future. Then and January he has a major injury because at his age that’s higher risk. Then we end up in a terrible position with no future but paying an often injured guy all that money not to play. I remember when Kyle missed that time and fans was on his ass and he’s not even getting half of what dame is owed. Keep him Portland. Paying a guy all that money to not make the playoffs is hilarious. If dame was 27 yeah throw the house at him, 33 naw I’m good.

I tried to express this in here… but some where appalled that a comparison to Lowry’s tenure here was even made! Best of luck… hopefully others take to your proposition/concern better.

That's kind of the fine line we walk right, if Lillard was 27, half of the NBA team would be bidding to get him, and our assets would fall out into the abyss of nothingness from how far back we are on getting him. Miami has always been in position to get a pass their athletic prime player, outside of Lebron who was an outlier getting a premier player at his age in a sign and trade was an outlier by all measures those are rare. But Shaq, Jimmy and now Lillard were only able to pick these guys up as they enter the end of their careers unfortunately. This is when we can afford them, but like you said their is a line you don't cross, I don't believe Miami has ever crossed that line in trade scenario. Overpaying their own undrafted absolutely, but in a trade scenario I don't believe they have ever gone completely left field with it.

[MiamiLoyal926]

Read on Twitter

“Miami knows the market does not love the idea of paying Dame $60M at 35 & 36yrs old” - @wojespn

This sentence sounds oddly familiar… almost as if it has been repeated in here over and over by a certain poster… wonder who?

Since 3ammy first introduced this idea to this board… this has been my stance. Seems as if I wasn’t too far off base eh? His age, contract and its concerns down the pipe is a reality that must be accounted for today, not tomorrow, nor “figure it out later”.

[MiamiLoyal926]

Heat receive:
Damian Lillard
Jusuf Nurkic

Blazers receive:
Four first-round picks. Three from Miami (2024, 2028, 2030). One from the third team.
Three first-round swaps, all from Miami (2025, 2027, 2029).
Caleb Martin
Nikola Jovic
Jaime Jaquez Jr.
Haywood Highsmith
Kyle Lowry
Matching salary X from third team

Third team receives:
Tyler Herro

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/what-can-the-heat-actually-offer-for-damian-lillard-and-why-are-the-blazers-so-hesitant-to-accept-it/

http://www.sportstwo.com/threads/would-you-take-this-all-in-miami-trade-if-offered.382404/

I would imagine Pat walks away from a Dame deal if this is what Portland expects and holds firm to…

Sorry Dame… we can’t make a deal with the devil. We also can’t be faulted for you signing that contract with the devil and getting stuck. Hopefully you have e ouch green tissue to wipe those tears with….

(I wouldn’t mind being stuck in Portland making $63mil)

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

“Miami knows the market does not love the idea of paying Dame $60M at 35 & 36yrs old” - @wojespn

This sentence sounds oddly familiar… almost as if it has been repeated in here over and over by a certain poster… wonder who?

Since 3ammy first introduced this idea to this board… this has been my stance. Seems as if I wasn’t too far off base eh? His age, contract and its concerns down the pipe is a reality that must be accounted for today, not tomorrow, nor “figure it out later”.

That’s their justification to Portland to not unload the entire clip for Dame, hopefully it works

[caliban]

1) No team outside of Miami has shown much interest and/or made a serious offer

2) Reed 1)

[MiamiLoyal926]

Heat receive:
Damian Lillard
Jusuf Nurkic

Blazers receive:
Four first-round picks. Three from Miami (2024, 2028, 2030). One from the third team.
Three first-round swaps, all from Miami (2025, 2027, 2029).
Caleb Martin
Nikola Jovic
Jaime Jaquez Jr.
Haywood Highsmith
Kyle Lowry
Matching salary X from third team

Third team receives:
Tyler Herro

It would hurt at first, but I'd still do the deal.

Lillard/Dragic
J-Rich/Duncan
Butler
Bam/K. Love
Nurkic/T. Bryant

Looks good on paper… today… not too great in the future.

Also, what we have left to work with in the future is not good or great.

That deal is horrible.

[MorbidHEAT]

Good dose of perspective:

https://www.reddit.com/r/heat/comments/14wuzn5/how_long_does_it_usually_take_for_a_blockbuster/

A lot of us have been getting anxious about if and when a Damian Lillard deal will be made. Stemming from the boredom that comes from that anticipation, I looked at the length of some comparable offseason trade sagas where:

A. The trade demand/catalyst started in the offseason.
B. The trade was completed before the start of the next season.

So here are 6 deals from the last ~30 years that met those parameters:

Charles Barkley

6/5/1996-6/16/1996: Barkley threatens to retire if not traded to a contender in an interview with NBC during the Finals. Expresses desire to play for the Rockets.

8/19/1996: Barkley traded to Rockets

75 to 86 days

Tracy McGrady

6/18/2004: T-Mac requests a trade from Orlando

6/30/2004: McGrady dealt to Houston

12 days

Shaquille O’Neal

6/19/2004: Shaq demands a trade

7/11/2004: Lakers agree to trade Shaq to Miami

22 days

Kevin Garnett

6/28/2007: Celtics acquire Ray Allen on draft night. (This was the turning point where KG said he was open to getting traded to Boston)

7/31/2007:Kevin Garnett traded to Boston

33 days

Kyrie Irving

7/7/2017: Kyrie Irving demands trade

8/22/2017: Kyrie is traded to the Celtics

46 days

Kawhi Leonard

6/15/2018: Kawhi demands a trade to Los Angeles

7/18/2018: Kawhi traded to Toronto

33 days

Some takeaways:

the shortest period between trade demand and trade was the T-Mac deal to Houston, which was 12 days. We are on day 11 since Lillard formally requested a trade.

the longest period between trade demand and trade was the Barkley trade (also to Houston), where he dead-ass threatened to retire if he didn’t get traded to a contender, preferably the Rockets

Two trades (Kyrie Irving and Kawhi Leonard) I was able to find specific “traded destination lists”. Neither was sent to their preferred destinations (Kawhi famously wanted to go to Los Angeles, Lakers or Clippers. Kyrie gave a list of San Antonio, Minnesota, Miami and the Knicks)

None of these trades are 1:1 identical to the Lillard situation, but the KG trade saga is probably the closest: 12 years with the same team, 8 consecutive playoff appearances and 1 conference finals appearance, teams began shifting to a rebuild while they were still on the team, neither had/has a NTC but KG had enough standing in the org to nix a draft day deal to Boston (which ironically ended up becoming the Ray Allen trade that would sell Garnett on getting traded there later in the summer)

Let me know if I missed any other blockbusters that would fit in this group! Would love to add some other cases for further discussion.

Day 14 since the trade was requested

Only 14? It feels like I’ve been waiting for this trade for months.