2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation - Free Agency Begins

[Mulhollanddrive]

Cam Payne could be the best 3rd string PG in franchise history.

[VanosGhost]

Cam Payne could be the best 3rd string PG in franchise history.

Nope. The Suns once had Kevin Johnson, Jason Kidd and Steve Nash on the roster.

[SunsRback4Good]

Cam Payne could be the best 3rd string PG in franchise history.

Nope. The Suns once had Kevin Johnson, Jason Kidd and Steve Nash on the roster.

Yeah, you cannot compete with that trio.

[BobbieL]

Cam Payne could be the best 3rd string PG in franchise history.

His biggest problem to me is consistency

Second - he seems to need something positive early and if he doesn’t get that, affects his whole game

Much better as a starter

[Saberestar]

Looks like Cam for cap space. He posted something to Mikal Bridges. Wonder if that means Brooklyn

Suns can than sign Bol Bol

My thought of TJ and Turner for Ayton - probably not happening

Why? Who reported that?

[BobbieL]

Looks like Cam for cap space. He posted something to Mikal Bridges. Wonder if that means Brooklyn

Suns can than sign Bol Bol

My thought of TJ and Turner for Ayton - probably not happening

Why? Who reported that?

Nobody of real stature
More just people on Twitter

I know TJ McConnell has been mentioned but that would take Ish as well.

[SunsRback4Good]

Just realized Bol Bol’s name backwards is Lob Lob meaning if we acquire him it’s an easy lob city. Clippers never went far when coined “ lob city” while Suns have better management and understanding what it takes to make it work.

[dremill24]

Looks like Cam for cap space. He posted something to Mikal Bridges. Wonder if that means Brooklyn

Suns can than sign Bol Bol

My thought of TJ and Turner for Ayton - probably not happening

Why? Who reported that?

Nobody of real stature
More just people on Twitter

I know TJ McConnell has been mentioned but that would take Ish as well.

Cam had a non guaranteed salary this year where the Suns could have cut him and gotten off of all but $2mil of his salary if they wanted. Turning around and trying to dump him now (presumably with assets) would be very dumb.

[bwoolf2]

Interesting

Read on Twitter

?t=olIl_kOXH6i493FAdjP_CQ&s=19

[enigmatics]

[quote="SunsRback4Good":****]

Now I’m interested in your lucrative offer. But to be frank, AZ does not currently have a beach unless you travel to Tucson, which is approximately 215 miles from the closest ocean beach located in Puerto Penasco, Mexico.

[/quote:****]

Still waiting on that one Cali quake lol jk

[Jdiddy701]

What I don’t understand is the hold up for Bol Bol. I get that the Suns are currently at 15 roster spots, but they can go over 15 spots leading into training camp. I don’t see how it’s related to Cam Payne’s situation.

If the Suns are unable to trade Payne or Ayton, and the roster stays as-is, is Bol Bol even an option? Gambo says yes, which means they are waiting for the trade to happen first I guess.


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[Saberestar]

Interesting

Read on Twitter

?t=olIl_kOXH6i493FAdjP_CQ&s=19

Yeah, Jake Fischer was already talking about McConnell for Payne but this trade makes more sense for the rebuilding Pacers.

[Slim Charless]

YoU dOn'T uNdErStAnD bAsKeTbAlL!!!1

I understand what I'm watching, you act like suns fans are the only people that see it. You aren't the 2nd coming of miss cleo dude.

I calls 'em like I sees 'em boys. No need to take offense if you're not the ones that the comment applies to. Fact remains that there are numerous posters here that never have and never will accept Ayton. Nothing the dude does, is ever correct. Nothing he can do can satisfy.

I dont take offense, I just think your basketball head is bigger than the MSG vegas sphere.

That sphere is kinda awesome. Apparently it can fit like 19,000 ppl inside. Looking forward to seeing it when I go watch KC play Vegas later this year

[Saberestar]

What I don’t understand is the hold up for Bol Bol. I get that the Suns are currently at 15 roster spots, but they can go over 15 spots leading into training camp. I don’t see how it’s related to Cam Payne’s situation.

If the Suns are unable to trade Payne or Ayton, and the roster stays as-is, is Bol Bol even an option? Gambo says yes, which means they are waiting for the trade to happen first I guess.


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It can be easier than that. I will give you an example.

Sometimes teams offer to a player a contract and they have a deadline to sign it. Just imagine that the Suns have offered to Bol Bol a non guaranteed contract with a team option for the next year and they have until July 20th to sign it.

Bol Bol and his agent would try to get a better contract (fully guaranteed) until that day and if they couldn't get it will be a done deal with the Suns.

[bwgood77]

But then you seem to ignore in '22 playoffs he had 20/10/2.5 on 70% FG series with Book out and half of his games in Mavs series were good, in rest the whole team sucked. Clippers series this year was OK-ish. The only real stinker was against what should have been a 3-time MVP though he played him very well in '21.

I can see both outcomes too, but still excited to see how Ayton plays under Vogel, who noted the relation between touches on offense and effort on defense in the video posted. Not sure where those touches come from with so many scorers on the team, but if they play unselfish a 60% scorer should be utilized. Fizdale's role in Bosh shooting 3s is also interesting. Still remember DA shooting 5/7 from three in the bubble and they never came back to it with CP3 running the show. I don't think Ayton is really bothered by the number of shots either. He just felt underappreciated and let this reflect on his game. We'll have to wait and see if playing for new owner and coach on a true title contender will motivate him again. I hope so, because his ceiling is a lot higher than Turner's.

TOUCHES ON OFFENSE! With the addition of Bradley Beal on top of the touches for Booker and KD. Do you even hear what you're saying?

This is just my opinion but you're in denial. This is not Sheandre's team. He's not even a 2nd option let alone a 3rd. Imagine telling yourself that given what I just said and that they're going to feed him more. If you haven't noticed yet this team continues to move further and further away from needing Ayton's offensive impact.

...... and DA shooting 3's? I've got beachfront property in Scottsdale to sell you if you think he's gonna flex out and start shooting those. Just stop. Bosh was already a better shooter outside of 10-12 ft than DA before he was a Heatle.

Now I’m interested in your lucrative offer. But to be frank, AZ does not currently have a beach unless you travel to Tucson, which is approximately 215 miles from the closest ocean beach located in Puerto Penasco, Mexico.

How do you know he doesn't live near Big Surf and hasn't realized it shut down?

[sunskerr]

I just gauge Ayton as I see him. Trade him if I think it makes us better, and do not if it doesn't. Like right now I think we are in a spot where that doesn't appear like it needs to happen.

I just don't think he's an untradable player with some immense hidden skill. I think we know what his skill set is - he's not an elite big who can be the focus of your offense because he doesn't have the skills (i.e. shot creation) to be that at the level we are playing basketball at.

I think he's a really, really good role player witha tiny chance he can make an all star game if he excels defensively, and/or develops some more offensively.

But I think it's clear most NBA teams value him somewhere in that ball park or even lower than I stated because of the offers (like the Mavs) we were getting. So I think if you value him as untradable then that is something not grounded in reality.

Harsh to say that but I can only make my opinion based on the information that's available, including the 5 years of games he's played.

If you want to argue his development was ruined by Monty, then that's another argument and one that will be seen this upcoming season. But even that isn't something anyone can argue for sure at this point because we aren't actually privy to all the behind the scenes information. So if you made a judgment on that already you're really just guessing.

But like anyone I hope Ayton does well under Vogel and that he is the man for us at center.

But if he's going up soft and getting blocked by small guards like he did against Denver well of course I'll get mad.

[bwgood77]

I want Ayton to succeed just like the next person does but he’s correct on Ayton getting less touches. If DA was complaining while have Monty as a coach who prides on ball movement and CP3 who’s an expert passer, who exactly will dish the ball to Ayton? My only hope is Saben Lee if he plays amazingly and is inserted in the starting lineup. Saben is good at driving inside and finding an open shooter and can create easier shots for Ayton.

As I said I don't think Ayton will complain about touches if he feels appreciated. I guess his FGA will be in 10-12 range once they build chemistry with KD and Beal on the PnRs. I have heard a few times EJ criticize Book for his entry passing, so hopefully there is improvement too. I can see DA being unhappy if he's getting 6-7 shots like in a few games after KD trade when the likes of Okogie and Ross took more. With the gravity of Suns star perimeter players he should get a lot of opportunities inside. If they play unselfish opposing teams will have to choose their poison, getting killed from inside or outside.

People always say "Will he be happy in his role?" like he's always upset talking to media about his role. You don't really hear anything legit outside of seeing him sometimes frustrated in games just like pretty much any player. Sure he wants to get the ball when he is wide open and we all see him waving his arms sometimes and them not finding him.

Now I do think, as Vogel said and many have said before, that if he gets touches throughout the game he will be more instinctually involved and in the flow of the game with everything, offensively, defensively, rebounding, etc, but when teammates take you out offensively or you fail to get touches after the first quarter, your focus may wane...this kind of thing happens to just about anyone...outside of guys maybe like PJ Tucker, Mikal Bridges, Dennis Rodman, etc.

[TOO]

Ayton already gets around 16 shots per 36 minutes. Can't see that going up with the addition of Beal. So while I think Vogel is trying his best to appease Ayton and his masses, I just don't see how this happens unless Ayton is always playing with the bench.

[KdoubleDees23]

Ayton already gets around 16 shots per 36 minutes. Can't see that going up with the addition of Beal. So while I think Vogel is trying his best to appease Ayton and his masses, I just don't see how this happens unless Ayton is always playing with the bench.

Its called rotations. What I would do is play Ayton with the 3 stars, then when there is a bench unit in. Play Ayton with Booker, Ayton with Beal, Ayton with KD. Ayton can dominate bench units, and we will always have one star on the floor.

[Sunsdeuce]

I just gauge Ayton as I see him. Trade him if I think it makes us better, and do not if it doesn't. Like right now I think we are in a spot where that doesn't appear like it needs to happen.

I just don't think he's an untradable player with some immense hidden skill. I think we know what his skill set is - he's not an elite big who can be the focus of your offense because he doesn't have the skills (i.e. shot creation) to be that at the level we are playing basketball at.

I think he's a really, really good role player witha tiny chance he can make an all star game if he excels defensively, and/or develops some more offensively.

But I think it's clear most NBA teams value him somewhere in that ball park or even lower than I stated because of the offers (like the Mavs) we were getting. So I think if you value him as untradable then that is something not grounded in reality.

Harsh to say that but I can only make my opinion based on the information that's available, including the 5 years of games he's played.

If you want to argue his development was ruined by Monty, then that's another argument and one that will be seen this upcoming season. But even that isn't something anyone can argue for sure at this point because we aren't actually privy to all the behind the scenes information. So if you made a judgment on that already you're really just guessing.

But like anyone I hope Ayton does well under Vogel and that he is the man for us at center.

But if he's going up soft and getting blocked by small guards like he did against Denver well of course I'll get mad.

You said the same thing over and over and over. We get it. You don’t like Ayton. Move on!