2023 summer league

TheZachAttack · Post #401 » by **TheZachAttack** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 3:16 am

Miller showing his rawness in today's game, but these guys don't know how to find a guy open in the dunker spot at all. He's been open a lot and the team has missed a lot of easy buckets. I do think he's been a little bit slow in taking those passes and trying to finished and gotten blocked or the contest has been able to get to him.

He ends up taking a lot of tough shots and if a few don't go in or his 3 doesn't drop you get today. I think things look different with NBA PGs.

younggunsmn · Post #402 » by **younggunsmn** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 4:05 am

That was an awful performance. DJ Carton had some nice moments, everyone else was terrible.

Miller and Minott playing way out of control.
Miller in particular will look better playing next to better guards who can create for him.
Struggled with finishing today and was forced to try to create his own offense. A few sloppy turnovers.
Minott trying to play way beyond his skill level on offense, constantly trying to cherry pick on defense.

How on earth was Moore a first round pick again? Cuz he went to Duke maybe?
He's one of the less athletic guys out there and doesn't appear to have a single above average skill.

If we have to depend on Moore or Minott at all due to injuries this year we are in big time trouble.

I like the Ford kid on Sacramento he gives off tremendous Tyus Jones vibes.
If he can't make their roster, I'd put him in consideration for our 3rd 2-way spot.

Sacramento had a PG who could pass, wings who could shoot, and a big man who defended the rim.
Some might call that old school, but it worked. Who knew.

We threw a 3-2 zone out there a few times with Minott playing point on that.
You don't see that particular defense a lot anymore, wonder if we will see that wrinkle at all in the regular season with KAT or Jaden at the top.

KGdaBom · Post #403 » by **KGdaBom** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 1:00 pm

I posted this on accident in the KAT thread last night. DJ Carton dunk was SportsCenter play of the day.

TheZachAttack · Post #404 » by **TheZachAttack** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 1:42 pm

younggunsmn wrote:That was an awful performance. DJ Carton had some nice moments, everyone else was terrible.

Miller and Minott playing way out of control.
Miller in particular will look better playing next to better guards who can create for him.
Struggled with finishing today and was forced to try to create his own offense. A few sloppy turnovers.
Minott trying to play way beyond his skill level on offense, constantly trying to cherry pick on defense.

How on earth was Moore a first round pick again? Cuz he went to Duke maybe?
He's one of the less athletic guys out there and doesn't appear to have a single above average skill.

If we have to depend on Moore or Minott at all due to injuries this year we are in big time trouble.

I like the Ford kid on Sacramento he gives off tremendous Tyus Jones vibes.
If he can't make their roster, I'd put him in consideration for our 3rd 2-way spot.

Sacramento had a PG who could pass, wings who could shoot, and a big man who defended the rim.
Some might call that old school, but it worked. Who knew.

We threw a 3-2 zone out there a few times with Minott playing point on that.
You don't see that particular defense a lot anymore, wonder if we will see that wrinkle at all in the regular season with KAT or Jaden at the top.

Meh -- I think it really depends. Some posters on here are pointing out still flaws with players, but then using that to reduce their play and how they do make an impact to near zero. Minott's shooting or lack there of is what might prevent him from being an above average starter or the top 7 in a contending playoff rotation but Minott can definitely fly around in transition and as a dunker in the half court and make an impact in a 15 mpg role. I don't think he kills the Wolves at all in that role. I would argue it's likely the same with Moore too assuming he can hit 35+% of his 3's which I still think he can based on the eye test around his form mechanics.

Post #405 » by **Klomp** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 2:25 pm

I think it’s important to remember that summer is a time when teams experiment with things, because they are trying to gauge how much the young guys can handle. So it’s not really a true summary of the player’s overall game.

minimus · Post #406 » by **minimus** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 2:40 pm

With regard to Miller, Minott, Moore and Brandon Williams

1) Miller and Minott already have more baskeball skills than Vando, but Vando has learned how not to foul much, how to stay dsiciplined, how to boxout and when and how to cut. Both Miller and Minott have better hands, better dribbling and pass than Vando, but Vando is relentless in fighting for the ball. If our young player can learn these foundamental things for a big, they will be in rotation

2) Moore is playing with the ball and he is looking bad. Once he is playing as pure 3&D he will be good. Put him next to quality point guard and he will impress. He is better offensive player than Okogie, and he is not that far defensively from him

3) If Brandon Williams can make those open 3s, he will be better than McLaughlin. Not a high bar, but as 3rd string guard he will be a solid addition. Ideally I would give whole group one year to develop chemistry in Iowa:

Garza-Miller-Minott-Moore-Williams-Jaylen Clarke find a pair of shooter and RUN IT BACK (in Iowa)

Post #407 » by **Klomp** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 4:25 pm

Read on Twitter

TheZachAttack · Post #408 » by **TheZachAttack** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 4:34 pm

Klomp wrote:

Read on Twitter

Both Carton and Williams are pretty explosive athletes with great first steps. To me, Williams seems like he's a better scorer and has better touch and is better with the ball but Carton is more athletic and explosive above the rim.

If either of them can shoot 35+% from 3, I would take either of them over Jmac. I'm not sure either can control a game like Jmac can when he's on.

TheZachAttack · Post #409 » by **TheZachAttack** » Sat Jul 15, 2023 7:42 pm

I really like Miller in PnR as a roller or with the ball coming down hill from the elbow or at the FT line in the middle of the floor. He makes really good reads from there when he can see the whole floor and he's not trying to turn a corner. He's made two interior reads today that were great and should have led to easy layups but the layups were missed.

I like him less as a floor spacer or out of the corner right now. They've been using him a lot in the latter. Miller's lack of lift makes him slow to go back up on offensive rebounds and he's been getting blocked or taking some wild shots. He needs to know how to find contact and try to finish or to be quicker.

I'm a little bit down on him from where I was after the first couple of games, but he's only 19. I think it's tricky to figure him out and I can see why those who have watched him a lot have said that.

I think I'm going to be the #1 person on WMjr's bandwagon because if you watch the way he moves on the floor and the things he is doing except for whether or not the shot is going in he looks like an NBA player and moves like one.

Post #410 » by **Klomp** » Sat Jul 15, 2023 7:51 pm

TheZachAttack wrote:I'm a little bit down on him from where I was after the first couple of games, but he's only 19. I think it's tricky to figure him out and I can see why those who have watched him a lot have said that.

People were quick to anoint him, but this is why I've always preferred a more patient approach for teenagers when possible. Don't force him into action before he's truly ready. Let him develop at his own pace.

Post #411 » by **Klomp** » Sat Jul 15, 2023 7:52 pm

TheZachAttack wrote:I think I'm going to be the #1 person on WMjr's bandwagon because if you watch the way he moves on the floor and the things he is doing except for whether or not the shot is going in he looks like an NBA player and moves like one.

He seems a lot like NAW in the ways he can affect a game. Yes the shot is important, but he's no scrub.

TheZachAttack · Post #412 » by **TheZachAttack** » Sat Jul 15, 2023 7:56 pm

Klomp wrote:
TheZachAttack wrote:I'm a little bit down on him from where I was after the first couple of games, but he's only 19. I think it's tricky to figure him out and I can see why those who have watched him a lot have said that.

People were quick to anoint him, but this is why I've always preferred a more patient approach for teenagers when possible. Don't force him into action before he's truly ready. Let him develop at his own pace.

I think the interesting question is how you try to develop him. I don't think he's NBA ready right now.

Post #413 » by **Klomp** » Sat Jul 15, 2023 8:24 pm

TheZachAttack wrote:I think the interesting question is how you try to develop him. I don't think he's NBA ready right now.

Keep him in the G League, honestly.

I know people talk about how impressive he was at that level last year, and it was an impressive year for an 18-year old against grown men. But the more you look at it, 18.0/11.0 isn't truly dominant at that level. His 18 ppg ranked him only 47th in the league in scoring. And just to throw out a few other names, Grant Golden (who?) averaged 17.3/10.9, Mfiondu Kabengele averaged 20.0/10.8, Kenneth Lofton Jr. averaged 20.2/10.5. Heck, he didn't qualify as a league leader because he only played 6 games, but our own peacock Luka Garza averaged 32.2/11.5, so that shows how much room for growth Miller still has at that level before he becomes too good for Iowa.

Post #414 » by **Calinks** » Sun Jul 16, 2023 3:46 am

This might be the worst summer league team we have assembled. A far cry from some of the legendary teams we have produced in the past. Banish this squad to the shadow realm.

Post #415 » by **Klomp** » Sun Jul 16, 2023 3:53 am

Calinks wrote:This might be the worst summer league team we have assembled. A far cry from so of the legendary teams we have produced in the past. Banish this squad to the shadow realm.

Tryouts no longer see this as an easy roster to make with a good summer league/training camp, so the level of tryout player we'll get is likely lower. Once BWilliams got hurt, we were doomed.

wolves_89 · Post #416 » by **wolves_89** » Sun Jul 16, 2023 3:59 am

Calinks wrote:This might be the worst summer league team we have assembled. A far cry from so of the legendary teams we have produced in the past. Banish this squad to the shadow realm.

The problem with the Summer league roster was that the best players (Minott, Moore, and Miller) are all role players who have no business being more than a 4th or 5th option on offense. They are guys that need someone to create good looks for them to have any degree of success, and unfortunately this team had virtually nobody to fill the creator role. Brandon Williams did OK as a scorer for a few games, but even he doesn't do much to create shots for others. If this team had one PG who was a good passer and floor general things might have looked significantly better.

minimus · Post #417 » by **minimus** » Sun Jul 16, 2023 10:14 am

TheZachAttack wrote:I really like Miller in PnR as a roller or with the ball coming down hill from the elbow or at the FT line in the middle of the floor. He makes really good reads from there when he can see the whole floor and he's not trying to turn a corner. He's made two interior reads today that were great and should have led to easy layups but the layups were missed.

I like him less as a floor spacer or out of the corner right now. They've been using him a lot in the latter. Miller's lack of lift makes him slow to go back up on offensive rebounds and he's been getting blocked or taking some wild shots. He needs to know how to find contact and try to finish or to be quicker.

I'm a little bit down on him from where I was after the first couple of games, but he's only 19. I think it's tricky to figure him out and I can see why those who have watched him a lot have said that.

Yeah, that was my impression as well. Miller also hit cutting Moore for absolutely beautiful backdoor cut / reverse layup. He made that alleyoop pass to Miller in first game and couple other passes in SL that made wow impression. He also had couple of bonehead turnovers which looked like a technical issue because of increased pace, and length of passing line. I hope such technical issues will be corrected once he put more effort in practicing more, increasing range and difficulty of passes.

I also agree that his finishing under rim is a mess. He has impressive shooting touch, he can use both hands, but he hits the floor every time when he tries to finish under the rim. Is it low base strength issue or lack of core strength? It is like his upper body and lower body live separately. Same things when he is shooting jumpers. But he has showed an very good foundation to build on. Like Reid who was was a bad athlete in his first year in SL but showed all these little things like passing, slashing, shooting touch. I also had feeling that Miller has exhausted in last game.

TheZachAttack wrote:I think I'm going to be the #1 person on WMjr's bandwagon because if you watch the way he moves on the floor and the things he is doing except for whether or not the shot is going in he looks like an NBA player and moves like one.

IMO we can say now pretty clear that WM cant play a backup PG role, cant be main PoA defender, and cant create his own shot. RIP my dream. He also does not look like a natural shooter, yes his shooting release, mechanics, footwork look good, but he lacks shooting touch, his misses can be really ugly despite shooting in wide open spots. He also does not look particularly big playing against wings in SL. However, I have good feeling that he wont be an empty stat 0-0-0-0-0 performer like Tony Snell, Wendell seems to have feeling for the game, he also is not Culver type of personality, he is visibly frustrated, upset about his mediocre performance. I hope it will be an additional motivation for him. My hope for him will be more Danny Green type of player, but the question is whether league has figured out how to defend such one-dimensional players.

minimus · Post #418 » by **minimus** » Sun Jul 16, 2023 10:18 am

Calinks wrote:This might be the worst summer league team we have assembled. A far cry from some of the legendary teams we have produced in the past. Banish this squad to the shadow realm.

Yeah, last game was unwatchable. No PG, no shooters. Only straight line drives and right hand finishes from Minott.

minimus · Post #419 » by **minimus** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:00 pm

Our coaching staff in SL had some bright moments like playing twice double drag screen to make Minott rim-running big, which he finished two dunks, but I wish we saw some cutting, relocating, screening, passing like this

Read on Twitter

UTA was just on another level against us. I wonder how much better Moore, Minott and Miller would look in such offense. Also Connelly next time GET MORE SHOOTERS

NebWolvesFan · Post #420 » by **NebWolvesFan** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:11 pm

Calinks wrote:This might be the worst summer league team we have assembled. A far cry from some of the legendary teams we have produced in the past. Banish this squad to the shadow realm.

I know it's summer league, but coaching still matters. I'm not sure our guy was ready for the challenge. He always looked lost on the sidelines and wasn't he the guy they brought in to coach Culver? How did that go?

While this team wasn't stacked. For example, none of the two-ways guys from this year or last year played on the team. But I believe if Pablo or Corliss or Turner coached the team we would have done way better.