2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation - Free Agency Begins

[Mulhollanddrive]

If we're contending there's minimal need for one probably be better off using the 10-20m on luxury tax

[Slim Charless]

So when is daddy Ishbia gunna buy us a g-league team? We are the only team without one right?

Given the forthcoming tax bill, player/front office staff salary and not getting that cable TV money, I wouldn't blame him if it was put on the back burner for now

This was from 5yrs ago

The cost of starting a new G League franchise, according to the latest estimates I’ve received, is in the $10 million range. That’s not cost-prohibitive for an owner like Allen, but word is that Portland had a variety of issues with its Idaho experience in the development league and has questioned the value of such an investment. The Blazers, in recent years, have clearly been content without their own affiliate.

Wouldn't be surprised if it's double that now

Meh. Between him and his brother, they're worth over 10 billion I think. That's a drop in the bucket for them. Plus, with the complete lack of picks they'll need to subsidize getting young players someway. Might also be a way to hide other players if he wants to do a 3-1 deal for Ayton.

[bigfoot]

It is not about if DA is capable. I believe everyone understands he is capable. The question is will he play to his known capabilities, especially on the defensive side of the equation.

If the motivation to play to his capabilities is based upon his involvement in the offense (e.g., more shot attempts and less screen setting) then the Suns should move on. Last season, he had the second most attempts per game in his career and the second highest scoring average and his motivation was lacking. This upcoming season, his number of attempts almost certainly remains unchanged or even goes down from last season with the addition of Beal and Gordon.

If the motivation to play to his capabilities is based on his relationship with his coach there is a glimmer of hope. Vogel may be able to forge a meaningful relationship with DA. However, with Frank being defensive oriented, it will almost certainly have to be based on creating a system that allows Ayton to be a DPOY candidate and all-star C because of it. Ayton scoring 25+ ppg is not in the cards with Booker, Durant, and Beal. He will be unable to matchup with likes of AD, Towns, Jokic, Lebron, Sabonis and the plethora of other offensive oriented PF and C players for an all-star nod.

Again, nobody forgets what Ayton did in the 2021 playoffs. At the same time, no one forgets what Ayton has done since then. Most of us just wonder why the drop off.

It's on the player and the coaching staff and organization. Someone puts up historic numbers and you can't figure out how to up their usage rate and make them a bigger focus of the team it's a problem. Monty had his favorites and Ayton doesn't have the personality to over come that.

Bottom line it was an organizational failure and a player failure.

This offseason has shown one thing it's Monty is a pretty weird dude that likes to play favorites and marry his daughters off to those favorites. And Jones saw that and wanted him gone.

Correct answer

Failure by the organization and player may have been the correct answer for the season after the finals run. However, the past can not be changed. Two years later, plus KD, plus Beal, minus Monty, plus Vogel, plus Ishbia means it is 100% in DAs court this season. It would be hard for me to believe that Ayton does not comprehend he is but the fourth option on this team. During the championship season he averaged 10 attempts and 14.4 point per game as the third option behind Book and CP3. Hard to imagine he will get 10 attempts as the fourth option. If before this season starts, he is unhappy with his expected role in the offense, he should quietly ask to be traded. Otherwise he should understand that his role is defense. This is the reality of the current situation.

Fans hoping that Ayton will be ahead of Booker, KD and/or Beal on the shot attempt chart are going to be disappointed.

[lilfishi22]

So when is daddy Ishbia gunna buy us a g-league team? We are the only team without one right?

Given the forthcoming tax bill, player/front office staff salary and not getting that cable TV money, I wouldn't blame him if it was put on the back burner for now

This was from 5yrs ago

The cost of starting a new G League franchise, according to the latest estimates I’ve received, is in the $10 million range. That’s not cost-prohibitive for an owner like Allen, but word is that Portland had a variety of issues with its Idaho experience in the development league and has questioned the value of such an investment. The Blazers, in recent years, have clearly been content without their own affiliate.

Wouldn't be surprised if it's double that now

Meh. Between him and his brother, they're worth over 10 billion I think. That's a drop in the bucket for them. Plus, with the complete lack of picks they'll need to subsidize getting young players someway. Might also be a way to hide other players if he wants to do a 3-1 deal for Ayton.

Balmer is worth 10x that and even he passed on guaranteeing Eric Gordon's salary to save $110m on tax.

[bwoolf2]

It's on the player and the coaching staff and organization. Someone puts up historic numbers and you can't figure out how to up their usage rate and make them a bigger focus of the team it's a problem. Monty had his favorites and Ayton doesn't have the personality to over come that.

Bottom line it was an organizational failure and a player failure.

This offseason has shown one thing it's Monty is a pretty weird dude that likes to play favorites and marry his daughters off to those favorites. And Jones saw that and wanted him gone.

Correct answer

Failure by the organization and player may have been the correct answer for the season after the finals run. However, the past can not be changed. Two years later, plus KD, plus Beal, minus Monty, plus Vogel, plus Ishbia means it is 100% in DAs court this season. It would be hard for me to believe that Ayton does not comprehend he is but the fourth option on this team. During the championship season he averaged 10 attempts and 14.4 point per game as the third option behind Book and CP3. Hard to imagine he will get 10 attempts as the fourth option. If before this season starts, he is unhappy with his expected role in the offense, he should quietly ask to be traded. Otherwise he should understand that his role is defense. This is the reality of the current situation.

Fans hoping that Ayton will be ahead of Booker, KD and/or Beal on the shot attempt chart are going to be disappointed.

We will see I think the offense will be run at a different pace and there will just be more shots available period, won't be this walk the ball up the court start the offense with 12 seconds left on the clock anymore.

But we shall see...

[Slim Charless]

Given the forthcoming tax bill, player/front office staff salary and not getting that cable TV money, I wouldn't blame him if it was put on the back burner for now

This was from 5yrs ago


Wouldn't be surprised if it's double that now

Meh. Between him and his brother, they're worth over 10 billion I think. That's a drop in the bucket for them. Plus, with the complete lack of picks they'll need to subsidize getting young players someway. Might also be a way to hide other players if he wants to do a 3-1 deal for Ayton.

Balmer is worth 10x that and even he passed on guaranteeing Eric Gordon's salary to save $110m on tax.

2 different situations. We're not talking about spending 110m for one old SG, we're talking about spending 20m on an entire team that can be a feeder team for your main team. Also, having a Gleague team would bring in some additional value since everyone in the valley hasn't had one. It'd also be the perfect place to stick some of his MI ST buddies and former players at if he wanted to give them a place to work.

[bigfoot]

Correct answer

Failure by the organization and player may have been the correct answer for the season after the finals run. However, the past can not be changed. Two years later, plus KD, plus Beal, minus Monty, plus Vogel, plus Ishbia means it is 100% in DAs court this season. It would be hard for me to believe that Ayton does not comprehend he is but the fourth option on this team. During the championship season he averaged 10 attempts and 14.4 point per game as the third option behind Book and CP3. Hard to imagine he will get 10 attempts as the fourth option. If before this season starts, he is unhappy with his expected role in the offense, he should quietly ask to be traded. Otherwise he should understand that his role is defense. This is the reality of the current situation.

Fans hoping that Ayton will be ahead of Booker, KD and/or Beal on the shot attempt chart are going to be disappointed.

We will see I think the offense will be run at a different pace and there will just be more shots available period, won't be this walk the ball up the court start the offense with 12 seconds left on the clock anymore.

But we shall see...

.

At best, a pace increase may result in three more shot attempts per game. If you do some research you will see the pace of the game has increased significantly since the SSOL era and has topped out the last few years. 22/23 Suns pace was 98.2 (22nd in the league) and GSW was 101.6 (tied for 1st). SSOL was around 95.

Put another way, both teams taking a shot every 15 seconds is a game pace of 96, 14.5 seconds is at 99, and 14 seconds a 102.

[bwoolf2]

Failure by the organization and player may have been the correct answer for the season after the finals run. However, the past can not be changed. Two years later, plus KD, plus Beal, minus Monty, plus Vogel, plus Ishbia means it is 100% in DAs court this season. It would be hard for me to believe that Ayton does not comprehend he is but the fourth option on this team. During the championship season he averaged 10 attempts and 14.4 point per game as the third option behind Book and CP3. Hard to imagine he will get 10 attempts as the fourth option. If before this season starts, he is unhappy with his expected role in the offense, he should quietly ask to be traded. Otherwise he should understand that his role is defense. This is the reality of the current situation.

Fans hoping that Ayton will be ahead of Booker, KD and/or Beal on the shot attempt chart are going to be disappointed.

We will see I think the offense will be run at a different pace and there will just be more shots available period, won't be this walk the ball up the court start the offense with 12 seconds left on the clock anymore.

But we shall see...

.

At best, a pace increase may result in three more shot attempts per game. If you do some research you will see the pace of the game has increased significantly since the SSOL era and has topped out the last few years. 22/23 Suns pace was 98.2 (22nd in the league) and GSW was 101.6 (tied for 1st). SSOL was around 95.

Put another way, both teams taking a shot every 15 seconds is a game pace of 96, 14.5 seconds is at 99, and 14 seconds a 102.

We will see what it looks like in Oct... until then pointless conversation no idea what it will look like.

[Bogyo]

Meh. Between him and his brother, they're worth over 10 billion I think. That's a drop in the bucket for them. Plus, with the complete lack of picks they'll need to subsidize getting young players someway. Might also be a way to hide other players if he wants to do a 3-1 deal for Ayton.

Balmer is worth 10x that and even he passed on guaranteeing Eric Gordon's salary to save $110m on tax.

2 different situations. We're not talking about spending 110m for one old SG, we're talking about spending 20m on an entire team that can be a feeder team for your main team. Also, having a Gleague team would bring in some additional value since everyone in the valley hasn't had one. It'd also be the perfect place to stick some of his MI ST buddies and former players at if he wanted to give them a place to work.

Good one. If I were a billionaire, I'd do it for this alone - it would be a blast to (kinda) work with my old bball buddies. Bring back the good old days vibes, have fun with it, help them get a better life and give them a thing they enjoy. That's a dream scenario. If they (we) do something good along the way (g-league title? feeding 1-2 rotation player a year to the main team), or just generally help out good hoopers find their ceiling thats just gravy.

(Now I'm not sure Ish is all that, or any of this is viable, I just liked the idea and ran along with it).

[King4Day]

So when is daddy Ishbia gunna buy us a g-league team? We are the only team without one right?

G-league team way too expensive probably out of his price range.

He said he's hoping to have one by 2024.

[bigfoot]

https://www.si.com/nba/knicks/news/new-york-knicks-stalled-trade-cameron-payne-phoenix-suns-evan-fournier-indiana-pacers
https://hoopshype.com/2023/07/15/knicks-suns-pacers-discussed-trade-involving-evan-fournier-and-cameron-payne/

The New York Knicks and Indiana Pacers were set for another swap and they were even ready to involve a friend.

According to Michael Scott of HoopsHype, a three-team deal involving the Knicks, Pacers, and Phoenix Suns would've sent veteran depth prescience Cameron Payne to Manhattan. The deal also would've ended Evan Fournier's metropolitan odyssey, as he was set to join Obi Toppin in Indianapolis.

"New York, Phoenix, and Indiana had exploratory discussions on a three-team trade where Cam Payne would’ve joined the Knicks, TJ McConnell would’ve joined the Suns, and Evan Fournier and draft pick compensation would’ve gone to the Pacers," Scotto's report says. "There were also variations of the talks, which involved Jordan Nwora."

[Fo-Real]

Given the forthcoming tax bill, player/front office staff salary and not getting that cable TV money, I wouldn't blame him if it was put on the back burner for now

This was from 5yrs ago


Wouldn't be surprised if it's double that now

Meh. Between him and his brother, they're worth over 10 billion I think. That's a drop in the bucket for them. Plus, with the complete lack of picks they'll need to subsidize getting young players someway. Might also be a way to hide other players if he wants to do a 3-1 deal for Ayton.

Balmer is worth 10x that and even he passed on guaranteeing Eric Gordon's salary to save $110m on tax.

Balmer would have been nuts to guarantee 21 mil for Gordon, he wasn't worth that. The Clippers also have younger guys that they should want to be more involved, like Mann, Hyland, Powell and even KJ Martin even though he is a tweener. Paying Gordon 21 mil would have been a terrible business move!!

[collidingNeurons]

Meh. Between him and his brother, they're worth over 10 billion I think. That's a drop in the bucket for them. Plus, with the complete lack of picks they'll need to subsidize getting young players someway. Might also be a way to hide other players if he wants to do a 3-1 deal for Ayton.

Balmer is worth 10x that and even he passed on guaranteeing Eric Gordon's salary to save $110m on tax.

Balmer would have been nuts to guarantee 21 mil for Gordon, he wasn't worth that. The Clippers also have younger guys that they should want to be more involved, like Mann, Hyland, Powell and even KJ Martin even though he is a tweener. Paying Gordon 21 mil would have been a terrible business move!!

the bad move the clippers made wasn't not paying him the last year of his contract it was trading for him in the first place, they traded the 20th pick in this draft who was Whitmore for about 20 games of Gordon

[Fo-Real]

Balmer is worth 10x that and even he passed on guaranteeing Eric Gordon's salary to save $110m on tax.

Balmer would have been nuts to guarantee 21 mil for Gordon, he wasn't worth that. The Clippers also have younger guys that they should want to be more involved, like Mann, Hyland, Powell and even KJ Martin even though he is a tweener. Paying Gordon 21 mil would have been a terrible business move!!

the bad move the clippers made wasn't not paying him the last year of his contract it was trading for him in the first place, they traded the 20th pick in this draft who was Whitmore for about 20 games of Gordon

They thought he would be the difference maker on an already stacked team, it failed because their two stars main game uniforms are street cloths!!

[Sunsdeuce]

Really weird.

Read on Twitter

Hope we got a trade exception. We all knew Bol was coming. Not a fan of it but he’s probably a 12th guy who barely sees the floor.

Loading up 2nds for TJ McConnell?

[matt131]

Read on Twitter

?s=46

This feels weird to me. Trading Payne away so we have a spot for Bol Bol and to save money? I think Payne is more useful than Bol Bol. If Booker or Beal get injured, it’d be nice to have Payne in the starting lineup to score and handle the ball a bit.

[Jdiddy701]

Suns must be up to something. Trading Cam Payne to only create a roster spot for Bol Bol doesn’t make sense. Something else is cookin…


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[matt131]

Suns must be up to something. Trading Cam Payne to only create a roster spot for Bol Bol doesn’t make sense. Something else is cookin…


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Seems like something Sarver would have done. Trade a perfectly fine player AND a pick just to save on the tax bill and sign another vet min guy?

[darealjuice]

We created a $6.5M traded player exception in the Payne trade, I'm assuming we'll find a way to use that

[Slim Charless]

Read on Twitter

?s=46

This feels weird to me. Trading Payne away so we have a spot for Bol Bol and to save money? I think Payne is more useful than Bol Bol. If Booker or Beal get injured, it’d be nice to have Payne in the starting lineup to score and handle the ball a bit.

This only makes sense if we have an Ayton trade brewing. Otherwise that's alot of trouble to go through to aquire a 3rd center. Bol will get little time behind DA and Eubanks.....