2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation - Free Agency Begins

[Jdiddy701]

Am I the only person who doesn’t want Okogie in the starting lineup? I think we’re too small with him and I don’t trust him to make shots. In the playoffs, depending on the matchup, I’m probably starting Eric Gordon as our primary PG.

Edit: just realized I mentioned Gordon after saying we’re too small with Okogie. I guess his shooting intrigues me.

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Yea, just mentioned that. I am guessing Gordon will be the guy getting crunch time minutes in the playoffs. But still, having Okogie play well in the reg season, then disappear in the playoffs again, can have a pretty bad ripple effect.

Agreed, I think we’ll be fine in the regular season with Okogie but don’t like the idea of doing that knowing he won’t be starting for us in the playoffs. We need that 5th guy to be a consistent player that can be relied on every night. It will be interesting to see who takes that spot after training camp. I’m going to guess it’s Watanabe.


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[lilfishi22]

Am I the only person who doesn’t want Okogie in the starting lineup? I think we’re too small with him and I don’t trust him to make shots. In the playoffs, depending on the matchup, I’m probably starting Eric Gordon as our primary PG.

Edit: just realized I mentioned Gordon after saying we’re too small with Okogie. I guess his shooting intrigues me.

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To Okogie's credit, he does play and look more like a wing than a guard out there. He's a really good rebounder at his position, he gets in passing lanes and he's a strong point of attack defender. The shooting is shakey but I think there's something there. I'd be open to giving him a shot primarily because of his length and defense. I also think starting Gordon is a bad idea primarily because he's a certified bucket getter and you'll lose his impact when you surround with 3 of the best scorers in the league whereas we need a guy like him off the bench.

[lilfishi22]

Payne deal is incredibly stupid if the don’t get another player down the road, will see what happens. A lot of faith in players who haven’t played for us yet.

And I don’t like Okogie starting. He was scared to shoot in the playoffs. Reg season he will be fine, but that’s the scary part. Hopefully we don’t have to scramble to find players who can make open shots in the playoffs, again.

Btw Payne is the only guy who showed up in game 6 vs the Nuggets. I get that he has been injured and inconsistent, but playoff production can’t be taken for granted.

A one game sample isn't enough. He sucked last playoffs as playoffs as well if you recall and he just wasn't healthy most of last season. The guy just hasn't been trustworthy or frankly good enough to stick with this roster and while I really like him as a person and what he brought off the court, I totally get why we needed to take this risk and move on.

With something like 5-6 new 2nd round picks in our offers, we're far from done.

[bwoolf2]

Can't really use Jokic/Nuggets as an example because Jokic is a better PG than 99% of the league. Agreed you don't need a traditional PG but having a guy who can handle the ball confidently, shoot 3's and defend off the bench and look good stepping into the starting line up when required is still something highly sought after. Not saying Cam shouldn't have been traded but just the idea of relying on Gordon and a very young and inexperienced Goodwin could be a problem. If Book or Beal or Gordon gets injured, it's next man up and Goodwin will be playing real minutes with no other guard off the bench outside of Saben Lee who I have even less confidence in.

The roster isn't done yet so we'll see what else we come up with but salary dumping a player who's been in the rotation for the past 3-4 seasons is something that we'll feel if we don't patch up that gap.

I'm almost certain a follow up is coming. Before going into free agency I said we had 3 guys worth bringing back, and that was Okogie (got him), Landale (QO tendered but pulled), and Payne.

These 3 were the best EPM guys we had on the bench with the best DARKO projections. As frustrating as Payne was, and while he wasn't quite as good as Okogie/Landale, he was a clear cut above the rest of the bench.

Coupled with our apparent interest in TMac, this makes me think there is something in the works. Or at least they're trying to get something done.

But it also sounds like we like Goodwin a lot already, and that's cool too. It's a little confusing in that, hey if we like Goodwin, why can't Payne just be 3rd string point. You could do way worse.

But also Payne is somebody who will probably be out of the league once that speed loses a step and he's 29 already.

It just comes down to guard depth for me. Doesn't need to be a traditional PG (Payne is more of a combo than a traditional PG) but they do need to be an experienced guard who can handle the ball in my view. Looking at the depth chart right now, after Book/Beal, you're basically down to Goodwin, Gordon and Lee as the only ball handlers. One of these dudes is turning 35 on Xmas day while neither of the other two have high level experience on a contender. The ball handling experience drops off a cliff after Gordon and that is what worries me. We have Okogie and Lee but you don't want either to really be doing anything more than bring the ball up the court occasionally.

I think we basically saw an opportunity to dump/create a TPE while creating a roster spot and we took it. The $6.5m TPE might come in handy but a bunch of teams still have exceptions left to give to the few quality FA's still without a team so it'll continue to be a competitive process to try and lure a guy to play with us.

We have better ball handling depth now than at any time in the last 4 years. Beal, Book, kd, Gordon, Goodwin, Lee, okogie. Cp was a great ball handler for the 1st year and a half but then struggled yo get it past half court when they pressured him, payne was arguably the better ball handler last year just inconsistent and could be turnover prone.

[bwoolf2]

Heat didn’t have a traditional pg and went to the final this year. I mean they had Lowry but he’s 35+ yo not the prime 19 finals Lowry. Suns should be fine even if we don’t land another pg since Booker, Beal, KD, Lee can all contribute in that area.

Murray isn't a traditional point guard Joker ran point 80 percent of the time, very few teams have a traditional pg anymore.

Can't really use Jokic/Nuggets as an example because Jokic is a better PG than 99% of the league. Agreed you don't need a traditional PG but having a guy who can handle the ball confidently, shoot 3's and defend off the bench and look good stepping into the starting line up when required is still something highly sought after. Not saying Cam shouldn't have been traded but just the idea of relying on Gordon and a very young and inexperienced Goodwin could be a problem. If Book or Beal or Gordon gets injured, it's next man up and Goodwin will be playing real minutes with no other guard off the bench outside of Saben Lee who I have even less confidence in.

The roster isn't done yet so we'll see what else we come up with but salary dumping a player who's been in the rotation for the past 3-4 seasons is something that we'll feel if we don't patch up that gap.

So lets go through the rest of the playoff teams which were running traditional point guards?

Not many Knicks, suns, cp3 till he got hurt like usual, maybe Memphis,if you consider ja traditional, cavs, that's about it, point being is there are only a handful of traditional point guards left in the league and some of them play on **** teams. Haliburton is one of the only younger ones in the league that you would consider a true pg.

[SlovenianDragon]

Im against Okogie as a starter... I think people get hung up on that stretch of 7 games in February where he averaged 16 points on 51% fg and 46% from three... but outside of February.. he was ass... Hes a role player and bench player... We need to find our 5th starter...

[WeekapaugGroove]

Im against Okogie as a starter... I think people get hung up on that stretch of 7 games in February where he averaged 16 points on 51% fg and 46% from three... but outside of February.. he was ass... Hes a role player and bench player... We need to find our 5th starter...

I think it should be an open competition for the 5th spot. Id like to see Okogie earn it because he's a good versatile defender. The question is can he make the open looks because as a starter hell be the guy the other team helps off of.

Shooting is a skill that can improve so we'll see. Would be nice if he was the guy because he's the easiest to keep next year with early bird rights.

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[SunsRback4Good]

Okogie needs to start cause we have 4 shooters and little defense in our starting unit. He’s a mini Jae Crowder can play defense but won’t dazzle you with shot making ability. He’s our PJ Tucker and you can’t tell me otherwise.

[SlovenianDragon]

Im against Okogie as a starter... I think people get hung up on that stretch of 7 games in February where he averaged 16 points on 51% fg and 46% from three... but outside of February.. he was ass... Hes a role player and bench player... We need to find our 5th starter...

I think it should be an open competition for the 5th spot. Id like to see Okogie earn it because he's a good versatile defender. The question is can he make the open looks because as a starter hell be the guy the other team helps off of.

Shooting is a skill that can improve so we'll see. Would be nice if he was the guy because he's the easiest to keep next year with early bird rights.

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It is open... we are all wondering who will be the 5th starter when the playoffs roll around... Okogie would have to make a significant jump... its possible... But I think It will be Diop and Yuta battling it out... Both bring different kits and it doesnt matter who the better player is its whos fits the best... I dont think Okogie fits well... You really dont want to pass the ball to Okogie and thats a bad thing on offense...And its not like hes some DPOTY candidate...hes a lil overrated around here...

[lilfishi22]

Murray isn't a traditional point guard Joker ran point 80 percent of the time, very few teams have a traditional pg anymore.

Can't really use Jokic/Nuggets as an example because Jokic is a better PG than 99% of the league. Agreed you don't need a traditional PG but having a guy who can handle the ball confidently, shoot 3's and defend off the bench and look good stepping into the starting line up when required is still something highly sought after. Not saying Cam shouldn't have been traded but just the idea of relying on Gordon and a very young and inexperienced Goodwin could be a problem. If Book or Beal or Gordon gets injured, it's next man up and Goodwin will be playing real minutes with no other guard off the bench outside of Saben Lee who I have even less confidence in.

The roster isn't done yet so we'll see what else we come up with but salary dumping a player who's been in the rotation for the past 3-4 seasons is something that we'll feel if we don't patch up that gap.

So lets go through the rest of the playoff teams which were running traditional point guards?

Not many Knicks, suns, cp3 till he got hurt like usual, maybe Memphis,if you consider ja traditional, cavs, that's about it, point being is there are only a handful of traditional point guards left in the league and some of them play on **** teams. Haliburton is one of the only younger ones in the league that you would consider a true pg.

I said we didn't need a traditional PG.

I just want confident and experienced ball handler. Goodwin might be that guy and all I'm saying is that I'm uneasy about leaning on essentially a 2nd year guy for when one of the 4 key guys inevitably gets injured. A guy like Cam, who's been around the block, has experience at a high level and is a confident ball handler who can also create scoring/passing opportunities is someone I would want to be added back into the roster now that Cam is done.

[Mulhollanddrive]

I'm not high on Okogie but we need a perimeter defender, I preferred Goodwin but seems he's backup PG, yesterday I had Payne starting as he could defend the outside with speed. In a Vogel team he's going to want aggressive defenders on the perimeter and have his Hibbert / Davis / Ayton own the paint.

I still think if Goodwin plays really well he's the best fit (defensively and allows big 4 to play off ball) and we could run with Gordon in the 2nd unit PG like he did with at Houston.

[BobbieL]

Rubio for the TPE?

[Djedefre]

We need at least a serviceable PG. Dumping Payne for a tax relief is extremely dumb move. Armani never was and never will be a passable option to run the offense for more than a few minutes.

[Mulhollanddrive]

So these are our picks until 2030 -

1st Round Picks:
2024 worst of Washington, Memphis, Phoenix
2026 worst of Washington, Magic, Phoenix
2028 worst of Washington, Nets, Phoenix
2030 worst of Washington, Memphis, Phoenix

2nd Round Picks:
2024 Denver
2025 New Orleans
2026 worst of Detroit, Orlando, Milwaukee
2028 Boston
2028 Memphis
2029 Memphis

[Mulhollanddrive]

I know people get attached to draft prospects but I'd rather keep Wainright ahead of Camara (if we need to open up a roster spot)

[POLI]

Am I the only person who doesn’t want Okogie in the starting lineup? I think we’re too small with him and I don’t trust him to make shots. In the playoffs, depending on the matchup, I’m probably starting Eric Gordon as our primary PG.

Edit: just realized I mentioned Gordon after saying we’re too small with Okogie. I guess his shooting intrigues me.

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Yea, just mentioned that. I am guessing Gordon will be the guy getting crunch time minutes in the playoffs. But still, having Okogie play well in the reg season, then disappear in the playoffs again, can have a pretty bad ripple effect.

Agreed, I think we’ll be fine in the regular season with Okogie but don’t like the idea of doing that knowing he won’t be starting for us in the playoffs. We need that 5th guy to be a consistent player that can be relied on every night. It will be interesting to see who takes that spot after training camp. I’m going to guess it’s Watanabe.


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I am against starting Okogie also.
For several reasons.
1. Too short to defend real SFs.
2. Tooo inconsistent with his shot to trust him. When playing with KD, Booker and Beal you need someone who can score around 50% or over when shooting alone. That player is going to have a good amount of open shots every game.
3. He cannot help with handling the ball (neither can Gordon).
4. We should use a bigger player with the other 4 so KD does not have to defend a big, tough guy or a versatile player. Okogie cannot change in screens with everybody.

I am not criticizing his effort or willingness, but things are as they are.

[Saberestar]

Payne deal is incredibly stupid if the don’t get another player down the road, will see what happens. A lot of faith in players who haven’t played for us yet.

And I don’t like Okogie starting. He was scared to shoot in the playoffs. Reg season he will be fine, but that’s the scary part. Hopefully we don’t have to scramble to find players who can make open shots in the playoffs, again.

Btw Payne is the only guy who showed up in game 6 vs the Nuggets. I get that he has been injured and inconsistent, but playoff production can’t be taken for granted.

Bradley Beal is our starting PG.
Jordan Goodwin is our backup PG.

We didn't have enough minutes for Payne. Book and Gordon are gonna play high minutes at SG and both can play some PG too, so Payne would have been at best the 5th guy on the backcourt.

It's smart to not pay over $26M in luxury tax for a player that's not part of the rotation. I like Payne but he doesn't make sense on this new roster.

Bradley Beal is a terrific ball handler/facilitator, he is gonna make a great job as a primary ball handler. Look at McCollum on the Pelicans...he was mostly a SG on the Blazers for about 10 consecutive years and he has been playing really well as a "PG" since being traded.

Beal is a better version of McCollum...he is gonna have a bigger and better impact on the Suns.

Jordan Goodwin fits nicely next to Eric Gordon as a backcourt partner. And we have Saben Lee waiting his opportunity too...we are loaded at PG/SG.

[Saberestar]

BTW, that trade to get three more 2nd round picks is a **** genius move! LOL, we are trading swaps on already swapped picks...it's crazy that they are accepting it.

We have 6 2nds basically for nothing.

[Saberestar]

I know people get attached to draft prospects but I'd rather keep Wainright ahead of Camara (if we need to open up a roster spot)

Camara already looks better than Wainright.

[Fo-Real]

BTW, that trade to get three more 2nd round picks is a **** genius move! LOL, we are trading swaps on already swapped picks...it's crazy that they are accepting it.

We have 6 2nds basically for nothing.

And apparently can use the Payne money (6.5 mil), on an actual player if we see fit. Wonder if we have an eye on someone now or are seeing who shakes outta training camp?