Trade/Free Agency Thread, whose NINE is it anyways?? 2023-24

Hal14 · Post #1161 » by **Hal14** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 4:45 pm

lol

Hal14 · Post #1162 » by **Hal14** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 4:49 pm

CelticFaninLBC wrote:
Hal14 wrote:It's definitely not ideal for team building / roster construction to have 2 guys on the same team with a supermax contract - especially with the new CBA.

So pairing Lillard with JT isn't ideal?

From a financial standpoint, no.

From purely a basketball standpoint, I'd probably say that being able to pair a top 5 player in the league (Tatum) with a top 10 player in the league (Lillard) is worth it. I'd also rather have Dame a top 10 player in the league who is a good fit with Tatum + Porzingis) on a supermax, as opposed to someone who is a top 20-30 player in the league (JB), who is a worse fit with Tatum since they play the same position, have lots of overlap and neither of them is a 30% or higher assist guy or an all-NBA level defender.

bigfoot_cryptozoology · Post #1163 » by **bigfoot_cryptozoology** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 4:50 pm

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BK_2020 · Post #1164 » by **BK_2020** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 4:53 pm

bigfoot_cryptozoology wrote:

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Plus 3 picks 2 swaps.

keevsnick1 · Post #1165 » by **keevsnick1** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 4:55 pm

ddb wrote:
BK_2020 wrote:
ddb wrote:
Jaylen is better than all 3 of those guys you mentioned, even at their peak. Jaylen is in the DMitchell, PG13 range. All three have had great success, but have also chocked in the playoffs, and have been called out because of it. In fact, Jaylen has a better playoff resume than the other two I'm categorizing him with.

That is like, your opinion but when you look at things you can objectively measure--accolades, here--Jaylen is with the Derozan, Randle, Oladipo and Sabonis group. In fact he's on the lower end of that group.

Not going to argue about it. The way I look at it is like this.

Would I trade Jaylen Brown for DDR? No. Would I trade him for Randle or prime Dipo? No and no. Would I trade him for Sabonis? No.

Would I trade him for Mitchell? Maybe. Depends on the day. Would I trade him for PG13? Not anymore.

Lets do some comparisons. Jaylen will turn 27 this October for reference. Here's a list of guys with relatively similar resumes at relatively similar ages.

Randle is 2x all-star, 1x all-nba 2nd, 1x all-nba 3rd right now (two years older)
Siakam is 2x all-star, 1x all-nba 2nd, 1x all-nba 3rd right now (two years older).
Oladipo was 2x all-star, 1x all-nba by his 27th birthday day.
Sabonis is 3x all-star, 1x all-nba 3rd team (same age)
Paul George was 4x all-star, 3x all-nba 3rd team by his 27th birthday.
Donovan Mitchell is 4x all-star, 1x all-nba second team (same age)
DeRozen was 3x all star, 0x all-nba by 27th birthday.
Lavine is 2x all star, 0x all-nba (1 year older).
Booker is 3x all star, 1x all-nba 1st (same age)
Butler was a 2x all star, 0x all-nba by his 27th birthday.
Ingram is 1x all-star, 0x all-nba (1 year younger)
Markkanen is 1x all-star, 0x all-nba (1 year younger)
Towns is 3x all-star, 1x all-nba 2nd, 1x all-nba 3rd (1 year older)
Beal is 3x all-star, 1x all-nba 3rd (three years older).
Adebayo is a 2x all-star, 0x all-nba (1 year older).
Middleton is 3x all-star, 0x all-nba (5 years older).
Murray is 0x all-star, 0x all-nba (same age).
Bridges is 0x all-star, 0x all-nba (same age)
Lillard was 2x all-star, 1x all-nba 2nd, 1x all-nba 3rd by his 27th birthday.

This list is not exhaustive of course, I wanted to stick with guys who are either close to the same age or older because we KNOW what they racked up by age 27, which Jaylen will soon be. I included guys he's often in conversation with as being traded for or just similarly ranked to. I didn't include young guys becasue who know what they'll add to their resume in the next 2-4 years.

Hal14 · Post #1166 » by **Hal14** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 4:56 pm

CelticFaninLBC wrote:
Hal14 wrote:
BK_2020 wrote:Webber and McGrady are not good comparisons for Jaylen Brown. Webber was on like 4 All-NBA teams by the time he was 27 years old. McGrady had like 7 AS games and 7 All-NBAs by the same.
Derozan is probably close (1 All-NBA and 3 AS). Jaylen is basically in that Derozan, Randle, Oladipo range of players.

It's harder to compare guys of different eras. If we're talking about right now, these are the guys I'd put in Jaylen's range as being in the same tier, not ranked in any particular order:

-Siakam
-Lavine
-Derozan
-Randle
-Brunson
-Harden
-Markannen
-Jaren Jackson Jr
-Lamelo
-Garland
-Beal
-Paul George (he's obviously better than JB but factoring in age and how he never seems to be healthy anymore..)
-Kyrie (he's obviously better than JB, but factoring n age and how he's insane)
-Jamal Murray
-De'Aaron Fix
-Sabonis
-Ja (he's better than JB but has off court issues)

Ingram and Trae (and some others, like KAT, Mitchell, Zion, Haliburton, Bam) would probably be in a tier slightly ahead of these guys.

Are all of these guys supermax caliber players? Probably not. Where do we draw the line? Right now there's only like 9 guys on a supermax deal.

If only 9 guys are on supermax deals, then what's a top 20 guy worth? 33% of the max? 32%? 30%?

IDK, most of the guys in that JB tier are making like $35-$42 mil a year.

bigfoot_cryptozoology · Post #1167 » by **bigfoot_cryptozoology** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 4:57 pm

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Tyakack · Post #1168 » by **Tyakack** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 4:58 pm

bigfoot_cryptozoology wrote:

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Come on Embiid.... Come to daddy.

keevsnick1 · Post #1169 » by **keevsnick1** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 4:59 pm

Hal14 wrote:
CelticFaninLBC wrote:
Hal14 wrote:It's harder to compare guys of different eras. If we're talking about right now, these are the guys I'd put in Jaylen's range as being in the same tier, not ranked in any particular order:

-Siakam
-Lavine
-Derozan
-Randle
-Brunson
-Harden
-Markannen
-Jaren Jackson Jr
-Lamelo
-Garland
-Beal
-Paul George (he's obviously better than JB but factoring in age and how he never seems to be healthy anymore..)
-Kyrie (he's obviously better than JB, but factoring n age and how he's insane)
-Jamal Murray
-De'Aaron Fix
-Sabonis
-Ja (he's better than JB but has off court issues)

Ingram and Trae (and some others, like KAT, Mitchell, Zion, Haliburton, Bam) would probably be in a tier slightly ahead of these guys.

Are all of these guys supermax caliber players? Probably not. Where do we draw the line? Right now there's only like 9 guys on a supermax deal.

If only 9 guys are on supermax deals, then what's a top 20 guy worth? 33% of the max? 32%? 30%?

IDK, most of the guys in that JB tier are making like $35-$42 mil a year.

Ya, but that doesn't really mean anything. In a financial environment in which the cap rises 10% every year of course the guy who is about to sign the newest contract will get paid the most. Jaylen will feel outrageously paid for a year or two until more deals get signed. By that point he'll feel somewhere between slightly over paid (if he plateaus as a player) or properly paid (if he takes another step to a top 15 player).

Bohemian · Post #1170 » by **Bohemian** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 5:02 pm

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Was this the fake one or the other? :lol:

lon3lytoaster · Post #1171 » by **lon3lytoaster** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 5:04 pm

Bohemian wrote:

Read on Twitter

Was this the fake one or the other?

This has at least been the most consistent one

robbie84 · Post #1172 » by **robbie84** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 5:07 pm

Hal14 wrote:
robbie84 wrote:
ddb wrote:
This isn’t exactly being fair to JB. He had a bad series against Miami with a busted hand. No, he’s not a super max guy, but he’s still 26, an all star, and a really, really good player. He’s far superior to prime Maggette.

He's 100% a supermax player in todays NBA. There are 2 slots on every team right?
30 teams. 60 players who can get a supermax in the NBA. He's 100% one of those 60 guys.

It's definitely not ideal for team building / roster construction to have 2 guys on the same team with a supermax contract - especially with the new CBA.

There's only like 9 guys in the league on a supermax right now. Not 60.

Only team in the league with 2 supermax guys is minnesota and they're definitely not a team where you want to go by their blueprint haha. No titles ever, people are still mocking them for everything they gave up for Gobert, when they already had a star center and Gobert has a very limited offensive game.

I'm saying in the NBA, there will be 60 slots for supermax players. I agree that many teams will waste money on guys that don't deserve it and dig themselves into holes.
Even if there are only 30 slots in the league, Jaylen Brown would be deserving of one.

BK_2020 · Post #1173 » by **BK_2020** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 5:11 pm

bigfoot_cryptozoology wrote:

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Jaylen Traded For Giannis

Post #1174 » by **165bows** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 5:11 pm

We are still wasting time talking about Siakam and Randle?

bigfoot_cryptozoology · Post #1175 » by **bigfoot_cryptozoology** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 5:11 pm

Ouchie...

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BK_2020 · Post #1176 » by **BK_2020** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 5:13 pm

robbie84 wrote:
Hal14 wrote:
robbie84 wrote:

He's 100% a supermax player in todays NBA. There are 2 slots on every team right?
30 teams. 60 players who can get a supermax in the NBA. He's 100% one of those 60 guys.

It's definitely not ideal for team building / roster construction to have 2 guys on the same team with a supermax contract - especially with the new CBA.

There's only like 9 guys in the league on a supermax right now. Not 60.

Only team in the league with 2 supermax guys is minnesota and they're definitely not a team where you want to go by their blueprint haha. No titles ever, people are still mocking them for everything they gave up for Gobert, when they already had a star center and Gobert has a very limited offensive game.

I'm saying in the NBA, there will be 60 slots for supermax players. I agree that many teams will waste money on guys that don't deserve it and dig themselves into holes.
Even if there are only 30 slots in the league, Jaylen Brown would be deserving of one.

Please enlighten me how are there 60 slots for supermax players. What does that even mean? Using your rationale, on any given team with 50% vets (guys out of rooke deals) there are 7 to 8 max contract slots. Do you think the 120th player is therefore deserving of a max?

zoyathedestroya · Post #1177 » by **zoyathedestroya** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 5:18 pm

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Celts17Pride · Post #1178 » by **Celts17Pride** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 5:25 pm

zoyathedestroya wrote:

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Big Surprise!

Post #1179 » by **165bows** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 5:28 pm

Celtics have three of the top-16 and two of the top-10 scorers in the league last year and people just want to bitch. Oh plus they are going from playing two PGs all the time to two big men and will be huge.

This team will be top-2 or 3 on offense, defense and size and people are still so cranky lol.

zoyathedestroya · Post #1180 » by **zoyathedestroya** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 5:32 pm

165bows wrote:Celtics have three of the top-16 and two of the top-10 scorers in the league last year and people just want to bitch. Oh plus they are going from playing two PGs all the time to two big men and will be huge.

This team will be top-2 or 3 on offense, defense and size and people are still so cranky lol.

And you can bet it will stay that way until that 18th banner is raised.