Trade/Free Agency Thread, whose NINE is it anyways?? 2023-24

[ryan in Maine]

From a financial standpoint, no.

From purely a basketball standpoint, I'd probably say that being able to pair a top 5 player in the league (Tatum) with a top 10 player in the league (Lillard) is worth it. I'd also rather have Dame a top 10 player in the league who is a good fit with Tatum + Porzingis) on a supermax, as opposed to someone who is a top 20-30 player in the league (JB), who is a worse fit with Tatum since they play the same position, have lots of overlap and neither of them is a 30% or higher assist guy or an all-NBA level defender.

I'm not sold on a top 7 of Zinger, Al, Rob, Tatum, DWhite, Lillard & Brogdon being better than Zinger, Al, Rob, Tatum, Brown, DWhite & Brogdon.

Yes, the offense is better, but the team is smaller and is not as good on defense.

You are not replacing Jaylen with Dame on defense. You replace Jaylen with Tatum on defense. So the defense for the starting/closing lineup will improve drastically.
You go from White - Brown (playing out of position where he's overmatched) - Tatum - Porzingis - Rob/Horford *or a small lineup with Jaylen at 3 and Tatum at 4 to Dame - White - Tatum - Porzingis - Rob/Horford.
You have a guy who can be attacked but on the other hand we are playing more drop anyway so we could just not switch or scram switch. There's way to deal with that.

Pretzels! Fresh hot vegan friendly pretzels!

[tfribs45]

Probably? They can space for each other, at least. They'd be closer to AD/Cousins in mobility and fit than Rob/Al, Mobley/Allen, other double bigs..

meh Joey wouldn't know what to do with that Double Big lineup. It's the complete opposite of the bland offense we've been running. "Live and Die by the Three"..... Now if you said this before the Zinger trade , then it would have been a homerun! Not trying to be the Timberwolves of the East....

I’m thinking more defensively. I think offensively they’re skilled enough to make it more than work, but are we just going to get killed with 3’s and midrange while we pack the paint?

our perimeter defense would be subpar at best. Teams that hit the threeball would crush us...Not sure it would work.

[Green89]

Celtics have three of the top-16 and two of the top-10 scorers in the league last year and people just want to bitch. Oh plus they are going from playing two PGs all the time to two big men and will be huge.

This team will be top-2 or 3 on offense, defense and size and people are still so cranky lol.

And you can bet it will stay that way until that 18th banner is raised.

Jaylen ranked 50th in the league in PER last season. Porzingis was like 16th.

[165bows]

Celtics have three of the top-16 and two of the top-10 scorers in the league last year and people just want to bitch. Oh plus they are going from playing two PGs all the time to two big men and will be huge.

This team will be top-2 or 3 on offense, defense and size and people are still so cranky lol.

And you can bet it will stay that way until that 18th banner is raised.

Jaylen ranked 50th in the league in PER last season. Porzingis was like 16th.

PER - what is this, 2005?

[bigfoot_cryptozoology]

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[CelticFaninLBC]

From a financial standpoint, no.

From purely a basketball standpoint, I'd probably say that being able to pair a top 5 player in the league (Tatum) with a top 10 player in the league (Lillard) is worth it. I'd also rather have Dame a top 10 player in the league who is a good fit with Tatum + Porzingis) on a supermax, as opposed to someone who is a top 20-30 player in the league (JB), who is a worse fit with Tatum since they play the same position, have lots of overlap and neither of them is a 30% or higher assist guy or an all-NBA level defender.

I'm not sold on a top 7 of Zinger, Al, Rob, Tatum, DWhite, Lillard & Brogdon being better than Zinger, Al, Rob, Tatum, Brown, DWhite & Brogdon.

Yes, the offense is better, but the team is smaller and is not as good on defense.

Oh c'mon now. You could just say that about any trade, where 1 player is clearly better than another. You could that that about the POrzingis trade. POrzingis is clearly WAY better, but you could have said "Oh I'm not sold we're a better team - with Smart, we'd have better defense, better passing and a deeper backcourt.

Not only is Lillard a much better player than JB, he's got much better handles, better clutch time player, MUCH better playmaker (more than double the assist % on basically the same usage %). Lillard also has much less overlap with our best player (Tatum) and by adding Lillard, we wouldn't be forced to play a guy as our starting PG who has never been a starting PG for a playoff team before (White).

You're just looking at offense.

[zoyathedestroya]

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[Hal14]

I think Danny Green could be a solid pickup for the veteran's minimum.

-We were reportedly interested in him as a buyout guy last season. But he signed with Cleveland, probably because he had a better chance at playing time. Understandable, since Cleveland was pretty thin at wing last year. They needed wings badly. But this offseason, they added Strus, they added Niang and they added Ty Jerome. And they didn't really lose anybody.

We might have a better chance to land him this summer.

-Green pretty clearly has more rings and more playoff experience than anyone we could realistically sign in the free agent market. 3 rings, for 3 different teams. We could use someone like that on the team. Right now, our roster has 0 dudes who have won a ring.

-Green didn't put up great numbers last season (and admittedly, he looked like he was moving a little bit slower on the court, seemed to be moving a little bit gingerly too) but c'mon now, it's understandable, considering he was coming off ACL surgery and his first NBA game back was just eight months after his surgery. I figure, with a full offseason to get back in shape and keep rehabbing, keep getting his knee stronger, he should be moving better, shooting better by the time the season starts this october (which would be over 16 months after his ACL surgery).

-I think he's got 1 more good season in him as a top 10 (maybe even top 7 or 8) rotation player who can play some solid ball off the bench, bring veteran leadership and help 1 more team get a ring.

-The last playoff series where Green played the whole series healthy, before tearing his ACL (1st round vs raptors just over a year ago in 2022) Green was 5th on the sixers in minutes that series, he was 5th on the sixers in points that series and shot 36% from 3. And oh by the way, one of Green's assistant coaches that season was.....Sam Cassell

-Green is a smart player, a savvy vet. He's been there, done that, seen it all in this league, performed on the biggest of stages. He's a solid 3&D guy. He moves the ball, finds the open man, is unselfish, the ball doesn't stick to him. He doesn't try to do too much. Knows where he's supposed to be on both ends of the floor. Good team defender..

[zoyathedestroya]

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[Hal14]

I'm not sold on a top 7 of Zinger, Al, Rob, Tatum, DWhite, Lillard & Brogdon being better than Zinger, Al, Rob, Tatum, Brown, DWhite & Brogdon.

Yes, the offense is better, but the team is smaller and is not as good on defense.

Oh c'mon now. You could just say that about any trade, where 1 player is clearly better than another. You could that that about the POrzingis trade. POrzingis is clearly WAY better, but you could have said "Oh I'm not sold we're a better team - with Smart, we'd have better defense, better passing and a deeper backcourt.

Not only is Lillard a much better player than JB, he's got much better handles, better clutch time player, MUCH better playmaker (more than double the assist % on basically the same usage %). Lillard also has much less overlap with our best player (Tatum) and by adding Lillard, we wouldn't be forced to play a guy as our starting PG who has never been a starting PG for a playoff team before (White).

You're just looking at offense.

There really wouldn't be that much of a difference defensively, imo.

JB is not that good of a defender. He's good, but he's not *that* good. He got beat off the dribble many times last season - especially at key moments, late in the season and in the playoffs. Time and time again, he's been caught ball watching, losing his man in help defense and getting burned, over-helping, not rotating where he's supposed to be, not closing out quick enough or aggressive enough on shooters, etc.

Stats like BPM, EPM, Net Rating, etc. factor in both offense and defense and they all show Lillard as the better player, by a mile.

[165bows]

Not only is Lillard a big playmaker/assist creator, he generates a TON of FTs. Guys usually decrease their FTA as they age, especially the more athletic, aggressive guys. Less so for the more skill guys who use skill to force fouls (eg Beal but to a lesser degree).

Big difference than eg Randle who you can see his scoring efficiency go down as he takes less FTs, and becomes a more perimeter oriented big man. That prob is a permanent thing and he has peaked and is going back down the overrated/underrated cycle - barring another unexpected leap in his 3PT shooting.

Still not that interested in the lillard conversation, but I will say I underrated him and thought he was over the hill when he got hurt a year ago. He was an elite offensive player last year. Maybe more like a Ray Allen, he's got a year or three before he becomes a role player/shooter. But again he's small and old, and people can whine about Boston guys choking or whatever but that goes double for almost all other teams' guys so maybe just see what we have.

[zoyathedestroya]

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[CelticFaninLBC]

It's harder to compare guys of different eras. If we're talking about right now, these are the guys I'd put in Jaylen's range as being in the same tier, not ranked in any particular order:

-Siakam
-Lavine
-Derozan
-Randle
-Brunson
-Harden
-Markannen
-Jaren Jackson Jr
-Lamelo
-Garland
-Beal
-Paul George (he's obviously better than JB but factoring in age and how he never seems to be healthy anymore..)
-Kyrie (he's obviously better than JB, but factoring n age and how he's insane)
-Jamal Murray
-De'Aaron Fix
-Sabonis
-Ja (he's better than JB but has off court issues)

Ingram and Trae (and some others, like KAT, Mitchell, Zion, Haliburton, Bam) would probably be in a tier slightly ahead of these guys.

Are all of these guys supermax caliber players? Probably not. Where do we draw the line? Right now there's only like 9 guys on a supermax deal.

If only 9 guys are on supermax deals, then what's a top 20 guy worth? 33% of the max? 32%? 30%?

IDK, most of the guys in that JB tier are making like $35-$42 mil a year.

A lot of those guys were drafted between 2016 to 2020, so can't get $50 mil per year yet.

[CelticFaninLBC]

Oh c'mon now. You could just say that about any trade, where 1 player is clearly better than another. You could that that about the POrzingis trade. POrzingis is clearly WAY better, but you could have said "Oh I'm not sold we're a better team - with Smart, we'd have better defense, better passing and a deeper backcourt.

Not only is Lillard a much better player than JB, he's got much better handles, better clutch time player, MUCH better playmaker (more than double the assist % on basically the same usage %). Lillard also has much less overlap with our best player (Tatum) and by adding Lillard, we wouldn't be forced to play a guy as our starting PG who has never been a starting PG for a playoff team before (White).

You're just looking at offense.

There really wouldn't be that much of a difference defensively, imo.

JB is not that good of a defender. He's good, but he's not *that* good. He got beat off the dribble many times last season - especially at key moments, late in the season and in the playoffs. Time and time again, he's been caught ball watching, losing his man in help defense and getting burned, over-helping, not rotating where he's supposed to be, not closing out quick enough or aggressive enough on shooters, etc.

Stats like BPM, EPM, Net Rating, etc. factor in both offense and defense and they all show Lillard as the better player, by a mile.

Seems Lillard's alleged greatness doesn't equate to playoff wins.

[165bows]

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Cool send Aaron Wiggins over here. Sorry about ditching Moose after one second, he was a good dude but what can we say just had to be done.

[zoyathedestroya]

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[darrendaye]

Add Lamar Stevens to the list of wings that we could possibly sign to a minimum contract..

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Brad seems to like acquiring guys who played well vs us. And one of the games we lost to cleveland this season, the cavs brought Stevens off the bench randomly after he was sitting for most of the game, and then he played very solid for them Solid D, grabbed some boards, hit a 3. He played a pivotal role in Cleveland getting that win over us.

If defense first 4/3 is the target, I probably still have more interest in KZ Okpala, if he's still with us. He might be a ghost as there is zero rumor. Very, very, very, low volume, but, check the corner 3 percentages the last 2 years.

Code: Select all

                             
                     Corn Corn
Season      Age  Tm  %3PA  3P%
2019-20      20 MIA 1.000 .000
2020-21      21 MIA  .520 .269
2021-22      22 MIA  .615 .500
2022-23      23 SAC  .524 .455
Career               .551 .370
3 seasons       MIA  .558 .349
1 season        SAC  .524 .455


Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 7/17/2023.

[Celts17Pride]

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WCJ in Boston would be sweet