Re-Signed: The PJ Washington Jr. Thread (3yrs/$48m)

[JDR720]

Who is PJ's internal replacement?

That's the biggest issue if he leaves. Or we'll just have to spend money on another FA.

Marv and Zeller didn't limit the team. They were role players that get paid like role players. PJ would be in that camp too in the 15-18m dollar range.

The thing that caps us out is paying 20+ million on other role players, like Nic, Rozier and Gordon.

[SWedd523]

they limited the team by being bottom 5-10 starters in the league locked up to long term deals that weren't friendly nor tradeable.

It doesn't matter who the role player is, signing a bunch of them to long term contracts to be starters is a surefire way to lock yourself into mediocrity. Ask Kemba Walker.

This has always been the crux of my argument against retaining dudes like PJ long term. It does you no favors from a team building perspective. That money can't be used to sign actual difference makers, his contract isn't tradeable for 3-4 years, you're locked into starter money for a role player. We're already dealing with that pain with Terry, doubling down with PJ isn't going to help matters any.

We're already talking about him being a bench guy behind Gordo and Miles. We just drafted a guy at #2 to fight for those rotation minutes as well.

He should've been traded last year

[Bassman]

A better organization would have likely traded PJ last season, but despite interest from other teams, they weren’t likely getting any real value offers for him. I could also see them holding onto PJ because we had no alternatives. THAT is possibly our situation if he signs the QO along with Miles then both bolt in a year.

It’s a bad world when your average PF wants above average pay. But the market will decide his value when he becomes a FA, unless we take a hit now with a slight overpay. In the NBA it’s a seller’s market. Players know if they can shine they will command a huge payout. These guys (Miles and PJ) believe in themselves, still believe they can achieve more, and are gambling they will get it.

[JMAC3]

It also could be PJ is wanting 20 and Hornets are only offering 14 hoping to meet in the middle, the reporting has been decent on this but we still don't have a clear picture of what exactly is going on. My gut says that we eventually get a long term deal done with him.

Making it incentive based makes sense to me.

[JMAC3]

A few things to note with PJ.
He played 95% of his mins at PF last year. As opposed to 50/50 split we saw at PF/C with Borrego the prev 2 years.
Part of that was we lacked a true backup center behind Plumlee at the time (no Mark, Richards awful)

The other part being Bridges was around.
So assuming that he still plays the majority of his mins at the 4, how much time does Bridges play at the 3 vs the 4?
Bridges has played 80% of his minutes at the 4 his last 2 years, far and away his best 2 years.

Does it actually make sense for PJ to only come back on QO so we can see how to best utilize them together moving forward? Figure out which direction to move prior to trade deadline and then move one at that point?

[Rich4114]

A few things to note with PJ.
He played 95% of his mins at PF last year. As opposed to 50/50 split we saw at PF/C with Borrego the prev 2 years.
Part of that was we lacked a true backup center behind Plumlee at the time (no Mark, Richards awful)

The other part being Bridges was around.
So assuming that he still plays the majority of his mins at the 4, how much time does Bridges play at the 3 vs the 4?
Bridges has played 80% of his minutes at the 4 his last 2 years, far and away his best 2 years.

Does it actually make sense for PJ to only come back on QO so we can see how to best utilize them together moving forward? Figure out which direction to move prior to trade deadline and then move one at that point?

Miles played more at the 4 and that’s where his best mins came from? I would’ve thought it was at the 3. That makes things interesting regarding PJ. But if so, then how do you not lock Miles in long term?

[JMAC3]

Miles played 21% of time at SF last year, 69% at PF and 10% at Center. Borrego loved Small Ball.
Year before that Miles played 92% of his time at PF.

60% of the time Miles and PJ played together the last year was with PJ at the 5.

[NCHeels2008]

they limited the team by being bottom 5-10 starters in the league locked up to long term deals that weren't friendly nor tradeable.

It doesn't matter who the role player is, signing a bunch of them to long term contracts to be starters is a surefire way to lock yourself into mediocrity. Ask Kemba Walker.

This has always been the crux of my argument against retaining dudes like PJ long term. It does you no favors from a team building perspective. That money can't be used to sign actual difference makers, his contract isn't tradeable for 3-4 years, you're locked into starter money for a role player. We're already dealing with that pain with Terry, doubling down with PJ isn't going to help matters any.

We're already talking about him being a bench guy behind Gordo and Miles. We just drafted a guy at #2 to fight for those rotation minutes as well.

He should've been traded last year

I think you're being a bit harsh on PJ where on a team like the Lakers or the Warriors he would look like a solid 4th/5th starter

[jbk1234]

Did the Hornets ever play PJ at SF? Is there a reason he's strictly a 4?

[Hornet Mania]

Did the Hornets ever play PJ at SF? Is there a reason he's strictly a 4?

Not that I can recall, or not much anyway.

His game just isn't suited for it. You wouldn't want him guarding faster hyper-athletic wings, he also isn't a great ball handler. His style of play screams stretch 4 or small-ball 5. He has a solid base and holds up well defensively against bigs even though he is only 6'7.

[Diop]

Did the Hornets ever play PJ at SF? Is there a reason he's strictly a 4?

Not that I can recall, or not much anyway.

His game just isn't suited for it. You wouldn't want him guarding faster hyper-athletic wings, he also isn't a great ball handler. His style of play screams stretch 4 or small-ball 5. He has a solid base and holds up well defensively against bigs even though he is only 6'7.

he did have some good games defending good small forwards though, i cant remember which game it was, it was the end of a road trip and he really locked the opponent wing down. had a great game.

[Trey24]

A few things to note with PJ.
He played 95% of his mins at PF last year. As opposed to 50/50 split we saw at PF/C with Borrego the prev 2 years.
Part of that was we lacked a true backup center behind Plumlee at the time (no Mark, Richards awful)

The other part being Bridges was around.
So assuming that he still plays the majority of his mins at the 4, how much time does Bridges play at the 3 vs the 4?
Bridges has played 80% of his minutes at the 4 his last 2 years, far and away his best 2 years.

Does it actually make sense for PJ to only come back on QO so we can see how to best utilize them together moving forward? Figure out which direction to move prior to trade deadline and then move one at that point?

Miles is way better as a 4, I would think he starts as 4. PJ would be a good 6th man, and I think that would be a great role for him. My biggest question mark is what happens to his drive when he gets the bag?

PJ is the type I could totally see going back to his old ways of clueless non hustle basketball

[cornchip]

they limited the team by being bottom 5-10 starters in the league locked up to long term deals that weren't friendly nor tradeable.

It doesn't matter who the role player is, signing a bunch of them to long term contracts to be starters is a surefire way to lock yourself into mediocrity. Ask Kemba Walker.

This has always been the crux of my argument against retaining dudes like PJ long term. It does you no favors from a team building perspective. That money can't be used to sign actual difference makers, his contract isn't tradeable for 3-4 years, you're locked into starter money for a role player. We're already dealing with that pain with Terry, doubling down with PJ isn't going to help matters any.

We're already talking about him being a bench guy behind Gordo and Miles. We just drafted a guy at #2 to fight for those rotation minutes as well.

He should've been traded last year

I think you're being a bit harsh on PJ where on a team like the Lakers or the Warriors he would look like a solid 4th/5th starter

I agree. If he plays up to his contract then he is going to be an asset. 18 per year doesn't look the same for every team.

Terry's contract is hard to trade because of value. There's simply too many equal or better combo guards who are paid less. It's not an apples to apples comparison.

[W_HAMILTON]

What's the story here? He's still not be re-signed, right?

I saw in another thread that we signed someone once the new owner(s) joined, so maybe this situation will get resolved soon as well?

[Bassman]

What's the story here? He's still not be re-signed, right?

I saw in another thread that we signed someone once the new owner(s) joined, so maybe this situation will get resolved soon as well?

Not signed yet, and who knows where the next move originates. Appears to be an impasse on contract value. No other bidder emerging to make him an offer (that we can match) nor any chatter related to a sign and trade. I think if he’s not signed within the next week or two he signs the QO.

[countryboi]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[yosemiteben]

I honestly don't know how I feel about the PJ situation. I definitely get the frustrations about his consistency, but I also think he contributes in a lot of different ways and at least he stays healthy and is pretty consistent on defense.

I think I assumed our FO would not struggle to lock him down and I'm super surprised he hasn't been. I'm not sure if I'm happy that they're not just taking the easy route and signing guys up without planning, or if I'm annoyed because I think PJ can be had for what I consider to be reasonable money. He's doesn't seem like the type of guy that we should be scared to offer a long term deal.

Ironically still feels like we haven't fully committed to either Miles or PJ. I guess it's possible that we've decided not to commit to either.

[HornetJail]

I'd love to actually know what's happening here.

A: Are we still trying to give him the MLE and PJ/agent still want $20M? i.e. no progress?

B: Have we come up to a reasonable number ($15-16M) and PJ/agent haven't budged on $20M?

C: Have PJ/agent's asking price come down to a reasonable number and the Hornets still trying to give him the MLE?


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The Hornets are stupid if they think PJ is taking the MLE. PJ and his agent are stupid if they think they can get $20M. My guess is there's plenty of stupid to go around here.

[Liver_Pooty]

This is borderline insanity at this point. Could quite possibly be going into next season without Miles or PJ on the roster.

Ridiculous and frustrating.

Edit: Season after the upcoming one.

[Diop]

i keep feeling like there is something we dont know about, are their personal or cultural risks with him? as his play seems worthy of a reasonable contract