Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0

[mathgeek]

I don't get why this is a surprise. Wiggins was never part of the picture. They wanted long term commitments from the guys. Wiggins didn't want to commit but copped out and said that he wouldn't refuse to play. Push comes to shove if the team makes the olympics you'll see all big names commit.

I'm more surprised that some of the younger NBA guys didn't commit like Mathurin. He would have been excellent to add some much needed 3 pt shooting.

I'm surprised Murray will play after such a long season and previous injuries.

[Hair Canada]

I don't get why this is a surprise. Wiggins was never part of the picture. They wanted long term commitments from the guys. Wiggins didn't want to commit but copped out and said that he wouldn't refuse to play. Push comes to shove if the team makes the olympics you'll see all big names commit.

I'm more surprised that some of the younger NBA guys didn't commit like Mathurin. He would have been excellent to add some much needed 3 pt shooting.

I'm surprised Murray will play after such a long season and previous injuries.

Wiggins never said he'd play in the WC. Only that he'd like to play in the Olympics. If we have a unit that does well in the WC and secure an Olympic Berth, I don't think he should be given precedence over anyone from that group who wants to be in the Olympics a year later. Commitment should mean something.

Mathurin was a college player and not even in consideration when the Summer core-14 was devised (same with Nembhard and Sharpe). And he shot 32% from 3 last year, worse than even Dort, Barrett, and Brooks career averages, though none of them is a good shooter. For comparison, NAW last year was 40% from 3 and CoJo 39% and 41% in his last two seasons. Both bring more experience and better defense.

[Hair Canada]

Whos going to defend elite 4’s and stretch 5’s.

We need wiggins to be our og at the four.

Theres a huge hole in this lineup. We probably have the second most talented roster and at the same time, our achilles heel is massive.

I really feel were primed to be upset by a team with 14 guys named who and a Porziņģis type (for example).

Brooks was second All-NBA defensive team last year and can certainly defend both the 3 and the 4, as he did many times at Memphis. Brissett is also a good committed defender at the 4 and can also cover stretch 5s. Wiggins is better than both offensively, but that's a different story. Olynyk not a great defender but can also keep up with stretch 5s (playing Wiggins at Center would be odd anyway). Barret can also cover smaller mobile 4s if needed, and even Dort can do that, though I think he's better utilized guarding other positions. All in all, this unit has quite a bit of defensive versatility. Lumbering bigs was the greater issue in the Victoria Olympics qualifiers and hopefully Edey can help with that.

Bottom line, Wiggins didn't want to play. We have a wonderful group without him. No need to obsess about his absense.

[agkagk]

Whos going to defend elite 4’s and stretch 5’s.

We need wiggins to be our og at the four.

Theres a huge hole in this lineup. We probably have the second most talented roster and at the same time, our achilles heel is massive.

I really feel were primed to be upset by a team with 14 guys named who and a Porziņģis type (for example).

Brooks was second All-NBA defensive team last year and can certainly defend both the 3 and the 4, as he did many times at Memphis. Brissett is also a good committed defender at the 4 and can also cover stretch 5s. Wiggins is better than both offensively, but that's a different story. Olynyk not a great defender but can also keep up with stretch 5s (playing Wiggins at Center would be odd anyway). Barret can also cover smaller mobile 4s if needed, and even Dort can do that, though I think he's better utilized guarding other positions. All in all, this unit has quite a bit of defensive versatility. Lumbering bigs was the greater issue in the Victoria Olympics qualifiers and hopefully Edey can help with that.

Bottom line, Wiggins didn't want to play. We have a wonderful group without him. No need to obsess about his absense.

Ya I’m talking big 4s and athletic 5’s that can shoot.

We’re going to get killed on switches.

Hope I’m wrong.

[mojo13]

Ya I’m talking big 4s and athletic 5’s that can shoot.

We’re going to get killed on switches.

Hope I’m wrong.

A'int too many athletic 5's that can shoot. We'd know who they are becuase they'd be in the NBA.

The main issue Canada will run into with this line up is the size, strength, physicality other teams are going to throw at us.

This may be an anomaly and the worst we will face at the Wolrd Cup but France will be bringing a front line of:

Rudy Gobert (7’1 260)
Moustapha Fall (7’2 275)
Guerschon Yabusele (6’8 270)
Mathais Lessort (6’9 260)

Olynyk and Powell are both listed at 240. Brissett 210 and Alexander 215. At least Edey is about 300.
It is a going to be a battle in the paint and we are going to get beat up - no way around that. I still laugh thinking how Chris Boucher was absolutely rag dolled years ago by a Chinese nobody at an exhibition in Victoria.

At least Olynyk and Powell are tough and scrappy players who are experienced with FIBA but I worry about foul trouble allot.
And Olynyk is just crucial to have out there to pull at least one of these hulks out of the paint to free up the gaurds/wings to attack. Otherwise they will be driving into walls.

I'm really curious what Brissett and Edey can bring to the table. Either could see major minutes.

France is still pretty big at the guard/wings positions too, and they could play smaller with more shooting - perhaps Batum (6'8) at the 4? But doesnt that play into our hands?

[Mirotic12]

A'int too many athletic 5's that can shoot. We'd know who they are becuase they'd be in the NBA.

There definitely are some. Remember, A. Sabonis, Jokic, Divac, Okur, etc. are just the typical style of center in Europe. Because they are all put through all of the guard training before they can get into the big man training. So a center being able to shoot in Europe is just commonplace. Actually, probably like half the centers in any decent European league can regularly knock down the three if you leave them open. While plenty of them are actually even kind of 3 point specialists. And yes, a certain amount of them also are athletic.

So the combination of a center that has athleticism and can shoot the three is fairly commonplace, at least in Europe. If we are talking about EuroLeague / EuroCup / FIBA BCL teams, a lot of them have at least one type of center like that. If you remember Pero Antic, a European center who played for the Atlanta Hawks - there are a lot of bigs like him in Europe.

[ItsDanger]

If Edey can handle 285 lb Cockburn and excel while doing so, he should be OK against the bench bigs and physical Cs they will face. Hopefully they use him as a scorer.

[agkagk]

A'int too many athletic 5's that can shoot. We'd know who they are becuase they'd be in the NBA.

There definitely are some. Remember, A. Sabonis, Jokic, Divac, Okur, etc. are just the typical style of center in Europe. Because they are all put through all of the guard training before they can get into the big man training. So a center being able to shoot in Europe is just commonplace. Actually, probably like half the centers in any decent European league can regularly knock down the three if you leave them open. While plenty of them are actually even kind of 3 point specialists. And yes, a certain amount of them also are athletic.

So the combination of a center that has athleticism and can shoot the three is fairly commonplace, at least in Europe. If we are talking about EuroLeague / EuroCup / FIBA BCL teams, a lot of them have at least one type of center like that. If you remember Pero Antic, a European center who played for the Atlanta Hawks - there are a lot of bigs like him in Europe.

yup.

basically anything north and east of italy eats our frontcourt for diner with basic boring fundamentals.

[mojo13]

A'int too many athletic 5's that can shoot. We'd know who they are becuase they'd be in the NBA.

There definitely are some. Remember, A. Sabonis, Jokic, Divac, Okur, etc. are just the typical style of center in Europe. Because they are all put through all of the guard training before they can get into the big man training. So a center being able to shoot in Europe is just commonplace. Actually, probably like half the centers in any decent European league can regularly knock down the three if you leave them open. While plenty of them are actually even kind of 3 point specialists. And yes, a certain amount of them also are athletic.

So the combination of a center that has athleticism and can shoot the three is fairly commonplace, at least in Europe. If we are talking about EuroLeague / EuroCup / FIBA BCL teams, a lot of them have at least one type of center like that. If you remember Pero Antic, a European center who played for the Atlanta Hawks - there are a lot of bigs like him in Europe.

yup.

basically anything north and east of italy eats our frontcourt for diner with basic boring fundamentals.

Pero Antic is the archtype you are touting here?
With a Euroleague career averages of 6pts, 3rbds, 0.2 blks per game? On 36/30/72 shooting? Thats the type of player that will eat our front court for dinner? An atheltic 5 who can shoot that is unathletic and can't shoot?

C'mon guys,

Help a brother out and tell me acutual exisiting non-NBA European frontcourts that Canada should be concerned with. Let's just focus on France, Spain, Germany, Latvia, Solvenia as teams Canada is likely to play.

Latvia has Porzingis and Bertrans and is likely the biggest concern - but obviosuly these are NBA players.
Is Yabusele it for France? Any one else? They have big boys, but not athletic shooters.
Spain Aldama, Juancho (low level NBA players)
Germany has their nba players (Theis, Wagner etc). But Maxi Kleiber just dropped out.
Slovenia? Mike Tobey? Cancar?

Outside of Porzingis, Kelly Olynyk is easily the best player here. The size/strength of France is the biggest concern to me.

[agkagk]

If Edey can handle 285 lb Cockburn and excel while doing so, he should be OK against the bench bigs and physical Cs they will face. Hopefully they use him as a scorer.

Ok is just another word for susceptible.

Also Big bodies leaning on each other down low is different from post communist string beans that can pick and pop and roll out to the corners for open shots.

I suspect our frontcourt will inevitably get “dirk-ed” to death by some euro named who with a 6 syllable last name.

We need wiggins d badly.

[ItsDanger]

If Edey can handle 285 lb Cockburn and excel while doing so, he should be OK against the bench bigs and physical Cs they will face. Hopefully they use him as a scorer.

Ok is just another word for susceptible.

Also Big bodies leaning on each other down low is different from post communist string beans that can pick and pop and roll out to the corners for open shots.

I suspect our frontcourt will inevitably get “dirk-ed” to death by some euro named who with a 6 syllable last name.

We need wiggins d badly.

Actually he dominated him and sent him to the bench with fouls and a mild concussion, but I just mean from a physical standpoint. The guys he will face have more experience but they will have to handle Edey's size in the paint, no easy task.

[Hair Canada]

If Edey can handle 285 lb Cockburn and excel while doing so, he should be OK against the bench bigs and physical Cs they will face. Hopefully they use him as a scorer.

Ok is just another word for susceptible.

Also Big bodies leaning on each other down low is different from post communist string beans that can pick and pop and roll out to the corners for open shots.

I suspect our frontcourt will inevitably get “dirk-ed” to death by some euro named who with a 6 syllable last name.

We need wiggins d badly.

If it's really just defense on stretch-4s that you're worried about, I don't get the Wiggins fixation when Brooks (or maybe even Brissett) can do similar work on your hypotheticl 6-syllable maigc man. If it's defense on a stretch-5 (Wagner? Theis? Aldama? Porzingis?), I don't see someone like Rudy Gobert, for example, doing a better job covering that than KO (Edey would indeed have a tough time with these kind of guys and they would drive him off the court). Would have been nice to have a backup there in the form of a healthy Brandon Clark or maybe Chris Boucher, but that's not in the cards.

As mojo says, I'd be more worried about lumbering bigs who dominate the paint the way Czech Ondrej Balvin did two years ago in Victoria.

[agkagk]

If Edey can handle 285 lb Cockburn and excel while doing so, he should be OK against the bench bigs and physical Cs they will face. Hopefully they use him as a scorer.

Ok is just another word for susceptible.

Also Big bodies leaning on each other down low is different from post communist string beans that can pick and pop and roll out to the corners for open shots.

I suspect our frontcourt will inevitably get “dirk-ed” to death by some euro named who with a 6 syllable last name.

We need wiggins d badly.

If it's really just defense on stretch-4s that you're worried about, I don't get the Wiggins fixation when Brooks (or maybe even Brissett) can do similar work on your hypotheticl 6-syllable maigc man.

Clearly youve never had your watch stolen by a hungarian gypsy before

[links135]

If Edey can handle 285 lb Cockburn and excel while doing so, he should be OK against the bench bigs and physical Cs they will face. Hopefully they use him as a scorer.

Ok is just another word for susceptible.

Also Big bodies leaning on each other down low is different from post communist string beans that can pick and pop and roll out to the corners for open shots.

I suspect our frontcourt will inevitably get “dirk-ed” to death by some euro named who with a 6 syllable last name.

We need wiggins d badly.

If it's really just defense on stretch-4s that you're worried about, I don't get the Wiggins fixation when Brooks (or maybe even Brissett) can do similar work on your hypotheticl 6-syllable maigc man. If it's defense on a stretch-5 (Wagner? Theis? Aldama? Porzingis?), I don't see someone like Rudy Gobert, for example, doing a better job covering that than KO (Edey would indeed have a tough time with these kind of guys and they would drive him off the court). Would have been nice to have a backup there in the form of a healthy Brandon Clark or maybe Chris Boucher, but that's not in the cards.

As mojo says, I'd be more worried about lumbering bigs who dominate the paint the way Czech Ondrej Balvin did two years ago in Victoria.

Well there's a few differences from then, for one our reliance was on Trey Lyles, who played 33 minutes that game at 6"9, whereas sure Olynyk isn't exactly Shaq but he's a better option.

Even with Barrett and Dort, they both just finished their 2nd seasons, Wiggins at that point played 5 playoff games since the Warriors tanked that season he was with him, he'll, they played Nicholson and Bennet.

Then you add SGA, Murry, Brooks, **** they'll have to stop us first. Can't grab a defensive rebound if we don't miss.

[agkagk]

If Edey can handle 285 lb Cockburn and excel while doing so, he should be OK against the bench bigs and physical Cs they will face. Hopefully they use him as a scorer.

Ok is just another word for susceptible.

Also Big bodies leaning on each other down low is different from post communist string beans that can pick and pop and roll out to the corners for open shots.

I suspect our frontcourt will inevitably get “dirk-ed” to death by some euro named who with a 6 syllable last name.

We need wiggins d badly.

If it's really just defense on stretch-4s that you're worried about, I don't get the Wiggins fixation… it's defense on a stretch-5 (Wagner? Theis? Aldama? Porzingis?)…..

As mojo says, I'd be more worried about lumbering bigs who dominate the paint the way Czech Ondrej Balvin did two years ago in Victoria.

I have no doubt kelly and powell will break their backs to defend the paint and rim.

Im talking about keeping strong 4s and 5s from getting to their spots in the mid range and beyond.

Wiggins has better core strength than brooks….by a lot.

Brooks will do well beating bigs to their spot but he cant hold it or keep them from getting there on switches…. At least not with consistency.

We lack a strong mobile defensive sf. big slow eastern euro teams are going to look to exploit this on switches and pick n pops.

[agkagk]

Ok is just another word for susceptible.

Also Big bodies leaning on each other down low is different from post communist string beans that can pick and pop and roll out to the corners for open shots.

I suspect our frontcourt will inevitably get “dirk-ed” to death by some euro named who with a 6 syllable last name.

We need wiggins d badly.

If it's really just defense on stretch-4s that you're worried about, I don't get the Wiggins fixation when Brooks (or maybe even Brissett) can do similar work on your hypotheticl 6-syllable maigc man. If it's defense on a stretch-5 (Wagner? Theis? Aldama? Porzingis?), I don't see someone like Rudy Gobert, for example, doing a better job covering that than KO (Edey would indeed have a tough time with these kind of guys and they would drive him off the court). Would have been nice to have a backup there in the form of a healthy Brandon Clark or maybe Chris Boucher, but that's not in the cards.

As mojo says, I'd be more worried about lumbering bigs who dominate the paint the way Czech Ondrej Balvin did two years ago in Victoria.

Well there's a few differences from then, for one our reliance was on Trey Lyles, who played 33 minutes that game at 6"9, whereas sure Olynyk isn't exactly Shaq but he's a better option.

Even with Barrett and Dort, they both just finished their 2nd seasons, Wiggins at that point played 5 playoff games since the Warriors tanked that season he was with him, he'll, they played Nicholson and Bennet.

Then you add SGA, Murry, Brooks, **** they'll have to stop us first. Can't grab a defensive rebound if we don't miss.

Effin aye!

I hope youre right, our backcourt is on par or better with a lot of the usa’s dream teams.

Exciting times man. Legit, team canada has the 2nd highest ceiling in the world moving forward!

[Mirotic12]

Pero Antic is the archtype you are touting here?
With a Euroleague career averages of 6pts, 3rbds, 0.2 blks per game? On 36/30/72 shooting? Thats the type of player that will eat our front court for dinner? An atheltic 5 who can shoot that is unathletic and can't shoot?

C'mon guys,

Help a brother out and tell me acutual exisiting non-NBA European frontcourts that Canada should be concerned with. Let's just focus on France, Spain, Germany, Latvia, Solvenia as teams Canada is likely to play.

Latvia has Porzingis and Bertrans and is likely the biggest concern - but obviosuly these are NBA players.
Is Yabusele it for France? Any one else? They have big boys, but not athletic shooters.
Spain Aldama, Juancho (low level NBA players)
Germany has their nba players (Theis, Wagner etc). But Maxi Kleiber just dropped out.
Slovenia? Mike Tobey? Cancar?

Outside of Porzingis, Kelly Olynyk is easily the best player here. The size/strength of France is the biggest concern to me.

If your criteria is just some center that has some athleticism and can shoot 3s, then there are many available to European national teams. I mean, there are many such players in national second divisions, let alone first divisions.

Again, it's very common in Europe for centers to be able to shoot the three. Has been for many years. It's some new wave of wonder in the NBA in recent years, but it has been normal for decades in Europe.

What some national team may or may not specifically have at the tournament is a bit of a different issue. France choosing to use Gobert over any number of 7 feet plus French centers that are indeed athletic and good 3 point shooters is just a coaching move. It doesn't mean they don't have those payers available, if they wanted to, and in theory can select them. I mean, even at the youth levels, there are plenty of 7 footers that are athletic and can shoot the 3. At the under 20 Euros that just took place, there were many such players over 7 feet, athletic and knocking down 3s. There is most definitely nothing at all unusual about it.

In fact, centers like Gobert (basic old school dinosaur type) are far less common in Europe. So could there be some teams that choose to bring some athletic centers that can shoot 3s? Yes, there certainly could be. I wouldn't count on not having to ever play any. Porzingis is talked about like he was the only 7 foot plus guy that could move and shoot 3s by the NBA, but there are all kinds of guys like that in Europe, even in the youth tournaments.

So no, there is no guarantee that you only face big lumberjacks like Gobert.

[Crazy-Canuck]

Ok is just another word for susceptible.

Also Big bodies leaning on each other down low is different from post communist string beans that can pick and pop and roll out to the corners for open shots.

I suspect our frontcourt will inevitably get “dirk-ed” to death by some euro named who with a 6 syllable last name.

We need wiggins d badly.

If it's really just defense on stretch-4s that you're worried about, I don't get the Wiggins fixation… it's defense on a stretch-5 (Wagner? Theis? Aldama? Porzingis?)…..

As mojo says, I'd be more worried about lumbering bigs who dominate the paint the way Czech Ondrej Balvin did two years ago in Victoria.

I have no doubt kelly and powell will break their backs to defend the paint and rim.

Im talking about keeping strong 4s and 5s from getting to their spots in the mid range and beyond.

Wiggins has better core strength than brooks….by a lot.

Brooks will do well beating bigs to their spot but he cant hold it or keep them from getting there on switches…. At least not with consistency.

We lack a strong mobile defensive sf. big slow eastern euro teams are going to look to exploit this on switches and pick n pops.

With wiggs, it's not just the defense. He's a walking mismatch. He can punish defenders which is something brooks nor Bassett can do. I mean brooks will try, but it won't be pretty.

It's all moot. Wiggs didn't give the 3 year commitment and there was no way he could play even if canada gave him a spot this summer.

[Hair Canada]

Im talking about keeping strong 4s and 5s from getting to their spots in the mid range and beyond.

Wiggins has better core strength than brooks….by a lot.

Brooks will do well beating bigs to their spot but he cant hold it or keep them from getting there on switches…. At least not with consistency.

We lack a strong mobile defensive sf. big slow eastern euro teams are going to look to exploit this on switches and pick n pops.

Again, I don't think Brooks is such a big difference defensively (nor is Brissett) if we're not talking guarding someone huge and extremely physical (I'll need specific names of European 4s. Are we talking Bertans? Theis? Aldama? Cancar? maybe Yabusele fits this best). I think Brooks and Brissett can cover most of these at least decently (certainly not worse than most teams in the world who don't have an NBA second All-Defensive Team player). I'd be more worried about the offense and shooting with these two, and there Wiggins certainly would have been an upgrade.

Now, if it's wing (SF) defense that we're talking about, that's a different isue and I think even less problematic. But again, to say that we lack a strong mobile defensive SF is quite strange. What is Dort if not that? Slightly undersized but more than compensates in terms of strength. Brooks can certainly be utilized as a wing defender (his primary position) and so can Brissett (his secondary position). And let's not forget about Barrett. He's only an average NBA defender, but hey, most international teams would kill for a lengthy 6'6 with strength, good mobility and athleticism, and strong motor. Finally, both NAW and SGA are big enough to cover some SFs for stretches. If they are really worried about wing defense, Tommy Scrubb is also a decent option, though I think Kyle Alexander probably fills a more urgent need in paint defense and size.

Again, I think Wiggins would have been a really nice addition. His two-way game is better than any wing we're going to have. But to say he's irreplacable and his absense leaves us with a huge defensive hole is quite a stretch, certainly if his heart is not in it.

[mojo13]

Pero Antic is the archtype you are touting here?
With a Euroleague career averages of 6pts, 3rbds, 0.2 blks per game? On 36/30/72 shooting? Thats the type of player that will eat our front court for dinner? An atheltic 5 who can shoot that is unathletic and can't shoot?

C'mon guys,

Help a brother out and tell me acutual exisiting non-NBA European frontcourts that Canada should be concerned with. Let's just focus on France, Spain, Germany, Latvia, Solvenia as teams Canada is likely to play.

Latvia has Porzingis and Bertrans and is likely the biggest concern - but obviosuly these are NBA players.
Is Yabusele it for France? Any one else? They have big boys, but not athletic shooters.
Spain Aldama, Juancho (low level NBA players)
Germany has their nba players (Theis, Wagner etc). But Maxi Kleiber just dropped out.
Slovenia? Mike Tobey? Cancar?

Outside of Porzingis, Kelly Olynyk is easily the best player here. The size/strength of France is the biggest concern to me.

If your criteria is just some center that has some athleticism and can shoot 3s, then there are many available to European national teams. I mean, there are many such players in national second divisions, let alone first divisions.

Again, it's very common in Europe for centers to be able to shoot the three. Has been for many years. It's some new wave of wonder in the NBA in recent years, but it has been normal for decades in Europe.

What some national team may or may not specifically have at the tournament is a bit of a different issue. France choosing to use Gobert over any number of 7 feet plus French centers that are indeed athletic and good 3 point shooters is just a coaching move. It doesn't mean they don't have those payers available, if they wanted to, and in theory can select them. I mean, even at the youth levels, there are plenty of 7 footers that are athletic and can shoot the 3. At the under 20 Euros that just took place, there were many such players over 7 feet, athletic and knocking down 3s. There is most definitely nothing at all unusual about it.

In fact, centers like Gobert (basic old school dinosaur type) are far less common in Europe. So could there be some teams that choose to bring some athletic centers that can shoot 3s? Yes, there certainly could be. I wouldn't count on not having to ever play any. Porzingis is talked about like he was the only 7 foot plus guy that could move and shoot 3s by the NBA, but there are all kinds of guys like that in Europe, even in the youth tournaments.

So no, there is no guarantee that you only face big lumberjacks like Gobert.

I'm disappointed in you Mirotic! Usually you are quite informative.

Not a single name mentioned that Canada needs to be concerned about... tell me some guys that are going to "eat our front court for dinner" or let "agkagk" know he doesn't have much to worry about, beyond the NBA names we already know.

Too many people still don't understand how good Olynyk is (even Canadian fans). Powell for that matter has some world class elite skillsets as well.