Sixers Offseason Thread Part 4

[76ciology]

I never considered getting Paul George for Harden. But listening to Morey, seems like he’s pushing to get PG and that’s holding the deal. At first it sounds absurd. But I think it deserves some consideration.

Then I look at the numbers, almost all advanced stats points to Harden being the better player than Paul George.

Harden also is a better fit than Paul George, who is redundant with Kawhi. Kawhi can play Biid’s role on offense for the Clips and operate at the elbow or at mid range.

Harden is a year older. But Paul George has bigger health problem than Harden.

Sixers get to be competitive in 2023-2024. And very likely to get a max cap space by 2024 offseason, with expectations of George opting out. PG also fits the hole at the SF position, while allowing Melton to start. All of which Morey mentioned.

Sixers
Maxey/Pat Beverly
Melton/House Jr.
Paul George/Nic Batum
Tobias Harris/Paul Reed
Embiid/Bamba

Clippers
Westbrook/Reggie Jackson/Hyland
Harden/Powell
Kawhi/Mann
PJ Tucker/Robert Covington
Zubac/Morris

If Clipps arent going to trade Paul George (powell+morris+roco), they’ll be more talented but i dont find their fit to be as good. There’s too many cooks in the kitchen and not a lot of movement in the offense.

Westbrook/Reggie Jackson
Harden/Hyland
Paul George/Mann
Kawhi/Batum
Zubac/PJ Tucker

I also think Sixers plan to add Tucker to the deal and thats why we added Pat Beverly.

By default you want to get the most value in a trade. But given Kawhi and Harden’s age and contract situation. You’d also want to prioritize fit because most superteams takes atleast a year to develop chemistry and I dont think Clips can afford that

[Mik317]

the whole point of getting Harden is to pair him with Kawhii AND PG.

[spikeslovechild]

Clippers have nothing I want hard pass

I am not going to be convinced to take a bad deal just because Harden wants to play there expand your list of teams or kick rocks.

[Ben]

I never considered getting Paul George for Harden. But listening to Morey, seems like he’s pushing to get PG and that’s holding the deal. At first it sounds absurd. But I think it deserves some consideration.

Then I look at the numbers, almost all advanced stats points to Harden being the better player than Paul George.

Harden also is a better fit than Paul George, who is redundant with Kawhi. Kawhi can play Biid’s role on offense for the Clips and operate at the elbow or at mid range.

Harden is a year older. But Paul George has bigger health problem than Harden.

Sixers get to be competitive in 2023-2024. And very likely to get a max cap space by 2024 offseason, with expectations of George opting out. PG also fits the hole at the SF position, while allowing Melton to start. All of which Morey mentioned.

Sixers
Maxey/Pat Beverly
Melton/House Jr.
Paul George/Nic Batum
Tobias Harris/Paul Reed
Embiid/Bamba

Clippers
Westbrook/Reggie Jackson/Hyland
Harden/Powell
Kawhi/Mann
PJ Tucker/Robert Covington
Zubac/Morris

If Clipps arent going to trade Paul George (powell+morris+roco), they’ll be more talented but i dont find their fit to be as good. There’s too many cooks in the kitchen and not a lot of movement in the offense.

Westbrook/Reggie Jackson
Harden/Hyland
Paul George/Mann
Kawhi/Batum
Zubac/PJ Tucker

I also think Sixers plan to add Tucker to the deal and thats why we added Pat Beverly.

By default you want to get the most value in a trade. But given Kawhi and Harden’s age and contract situation. You’d also want to prioritize fit because most superteams takes atleast a year to develop chemistry and I dont think Clips can afford that

the whole point of getting Harden is to pair him with Kawhii AND PG.

I feel pretty sure that Mik's right re: the Clippers. It would be pretty funny to see Harden and Westbrook playing together yet again, after their OKC days and their Houston reunion. I was amazed to see them each score so much the last time in Houston, although (unsurprisingly) it didn't work out that well in terms of wins.

The notion of swapping them for each other for a year does make a certain kind of sense re: fit for each team, but it would also be sufficiently weird that I really doubt it would happen. And I imagine that PG wouldn't be too happy about getting sent away from LA after he voided his last player option to extend with LAC (in 2020-21). Another unhappy player in Philly doesn't sound super fantastic.

RE: PG opting out in 2024, that's a big assumption. If he opts in he makes $48.8M that year. There's absolutely no guarantee that any team signs him to a long-term contract for anywhere near the max. Cf. Harden, James.
PG'll be 34 next summer, same as Harden is now, and who knows whether he'll play anywhere near 82 games this year. He's played 87 in the past two seasons combined. $48.8M might be what he gets over TWO seasons if he opts out. Westbrook just got a whole lot less. And if PG gets hurt at all this year, that guaranteed money has to look even better to him. So if Morey's really going all-in for max cap space next summer, Paul George doesn't seem like the surest means of achieving it.

One final thought. For anyone who'd be interested in a PG/ Harden swap, at this point in PG's career he's not only not better than Harden but statistically he's pretty darned similar to Zach LaVine. Better on defense, of course; not better on offense, and seems a much greater injury risk. Here's a comparison of their last two seasons.. Believe me, I get that they're very different players and if PG were fully healthy I would take him in the playoffs over LaVine. For now. (Tick tock, tick tock goes the aging clock.) But there's no guarantee of health. I only point out all of this b/c I'll bet that there are at least some folks here who would love to swap Harden for PG, even though that might be a 2-year max gig, but balk at the idea of LaVine at a lower price (but for 2 additional years).

[rocketsfan100]

And harden had a better season then Paul George just this past season…..

[Jailblazers7]

The most likely outcome feels like a 3-team trade with Chicago sending Lavine or Derozan to us. This is definitely the part of the 2k franchise where I wish we could hit the “simulate rest of offseason” button.

[the_process]

Clippers have nothing I want hard pass

I am not going to be convinced to take a bad deal just because Harden wants to play there expand your list of teams or kick rocks.

Two Clipper firsts plus expirings should be enough to get another star type player.

If LA won't give them up, then agreed Harden can expand his list or pound sand.

[Negrodamus]

The most likely outcome feels like a 3-team trade with Chicago sending Lavine or Derozan to us. This is definitely the part of the 2k franchise where I wish we could hit the “simulate rest of offseason” button.

Yea, I have to think it's DeRozan to maintain the flexibility Morey wants. Perhaps if DeMar hits it off with Embiid, he'd come back for a cap friendly deal. Like I said before, I actually think something like this could be in the works but will be waiting for recent draft picks to be eligible for trade. Bulls have to want to do a rebuild at this point.

The next move I'd do would be figuring out how to get Kevin Porter Jr here. Three scorers on the perimeter and Embiid. Figure out what to do with Tobias.

[NYSixersFan]

One last thing on Haliburton....When he was with the Kings, he was averaging 14 PPG per game. He was in his 2nd year when he got traded. The idea that Morey would ever want Haliburton over Harden 2 years ago is pure comedy.

[Stanford]

Two Clipper firsts plus expirings should be enough to get another star type player.

I'm not so sure about that. That would only be true if a player demanded a trade to Philadelphia and ownership acquiesced. Even still, Brooklyn got Bridges and 4 firsts for Durant.

I don't even think that package could get OG.

[the_process]

The most likely outcome feels like a 3-team trade with Chicago sending Lavine or Derozan to us. This is definitely the part of the 2k franchise where I wish we could hit the “simulate rest of offseason” button.

Yea, I have to think it's DeRozan to maintain the flexibility Morey wants. Perhaps if DeMar hits it off with Embiid, he'd come back for a cap friendly deal. Like I said before, I actually think something like this could be in the works but will be waiting for recent draft picks to be eligible for trade. Bulls have to want to do a rebuild at this point.

The next move I'd do would be figuring out how to get Kevin Porter Jr here. Three scorers on the perimeter and Embiid. Figure out what to do with Tobias.

I'd need to keep one of the Clipper picks if it's DDR.

[Jailblazers7]

One last thing on Haliburton....When he was with the Kings, he was averaging 14 PPG per game. He was in his 2nd year when he got traded. The idea that Morey would ever want Haliburton over Harden 2 years ago is pure comedy.

My best guess is that both things are true. Daryl never wanted Halliburton & was always focused on Harden. Sacramento also never made a serious offer built around Simmons for Halliburton. It always felt to me like Morey & Monte were just old friends using each other to generate useful headlines.

[Negrodamus]

The most likely outcome feels like a 3-team trade with Chicago sending Lavine or Derozan to us. This is definitely the part of the 2k franchise where I wish we could hit the “simulate rest of offseason” button.

Yea, I have to think it's DeRozan to maintain the flexibility Morey wants. Perhaps if DeMar hits it off with Embiid, he'd come back for a cap friendly deal. Like I said before, I actually think something like this could be in the works but will be waiting for recent draft picks to be eligible for trade. Bulls have to want to do a rebuild at this point.

The next move I'd do would be figuring out how to get Kevin Porter Jr here. Three scorers on the perimeter and Embiid. Figure out what to do with Tobias.

I'd need to keep one of the Clipper picks if it's DDR.

Probably not. I mean, both DeRozan and Harden are in all likelihood moving on to different teams at the end of next season as it currently stands. Harden only wants to go to one place. We're kinda in a restrictive negotiation position. That said, I think we could take on one of their role players. We trade out Korkmaz to the Clippers, they send back Covington.

I think there are a few extra pieces in the margins (like pick(s), prospects to Bulls), but something like this works:

Sixers get:
DeMar DeRozan
Robert Covington

Clippers get:
James Harden
Furkan Korkmaz

Bulls get:
Marcus Morris (cap relief next year)
Terance Mann
Kobe Brown

Gives flexibility to move Tobias if that's still in the cards for Morey.

[Negrodamus]

One last thing on Haliburton....When he was with the Kings, he was averaging 14 PPG per game. He was in his 2nd year when he got traded. The idea that Morey would ever want Haliburton over Harden 2 years ago is pure comedy.

My best guess is that both things are true. Daryl never wanted Halliburton & was always focused on Harden. Sacramento also never made a serious offer built around Simmons for Halliburton. It always felt to me like Morey & Monte were just old friends using each other to generate useful headlines.

I bet Morey was interested in Haliburton before James started forcing his way out of Brooklyn. We had our iron in many fires with Ben prior to Harden becoming available.

[ProcessDoctor]

I never considered getting Paul George for Harden. But listening to Morey, seems like he’s pushing to get PG and that’s holding the deal. At first it sounds absurd. But I think it deserves some consideration.

Then I look at the numbers, almost all advanced stats points to Harden being the better player than Paul George.

Harden also is a better fit than Paul George, who is redundant with Kawhi. Kawhi can play Biid’s role on offense for the Clips and operate at the elbow or at mid range.

Harden is a year older. But Paul George has bigger health problem than Harden.

Sixers get to be competitive in 2023-2024. And very likely to get a max cap space by 2024 offseason, with expectations of George opting out. PG also fits the hole at the SF position, while allowing Melton to start. All of which Morey mentioned.

Sixers
Maxey/Pat Beverly
Melton/House Jr.
Paul George/Nic Batum
Tobias Harris/Paul Reed
Embiid/Bamba

Clippers
Westbrook/Reggie Jackson/Hyland
Harden/Powell
Kawhi/Mann
PJ Tucker/Robert Covington
Zubac/Morris

If Clipps arent going to trade Paul George (powell+morris+roco), they’ll be more talented but i dont find their fit to be as good. There’s too many cooks in the kitchen and not a lot of movement in the offense.

Westbrook/Reggie Jackson
Harden/Hyland
Paul George/Mann
Kawhi/Batum
Zubac/PJ Tucker

I also think Sixers plan to add Tucker to the deal and thats why we added Pat Beverly.

By default you want to get the most value in a trade. But given Kawhi and Harden’s age and contract situation. You’d also want to prioritize fit because most superteams takes atleast a year to develop chemistry and I dont think Clips can afford that

I agree with you. George has been in the rumor mill all summer. The same can't be said about Kawhi. Even West has said how frustrating it is to have 2 stars that miss half of every season. They're due for a shake-up and this Harden situation gives them that out. Harden/Kawhi is objectively a better fit anyways, and as you mentioned, Harden was better than George last season (and pretty much every season ever?)

It's funny how the media manipulates player trade values. Like George and Kawhi are these untouchable wing gods, Lillard is Steph Curry on a bad franchise, but Harden is an old washed fat guy who only likes to party. Meanwhile, Harden has definitively done more than George and Lillard over his career.

Harden/Harris for George/Powell/Covington is the way for both teams...


Maxey/Melton/Beverley
Powell/Springer/Korkmaz
George/Tucker/House
Covington/Reed/Petrusev
Embiid/Bamba/Harrell


Harden/Westbrook/Preston
Mann/Bones/Boston
Kawhi/Martin/Coffey
Harris/Batum/Brown
Zubac/Plumlee/Morris

[GoSixersBro]

Morey shouldn't be worried about another star. We have our two stars. It's time to beef up the rest of the line-up.

I don't think our FO has the eye for talent nor creativity to build a successful squad. We need to be identifying the Aaron Gordon types, not necessarily guys with his game, but players who have fell off the radar maybe because they were asked to play in bigger roles, but would succeed as a #3 or #4. A lot of title teams go out and snag these difference makers. They aren't always the sexiest names but they get the machine to work and put good teams over the top making them great ones.

Agreed.

I think the focus needs to be sign Tobias for cheaper. He's older, no one's giving him too much and I don't see another contender paying him. Develop Maxey..... Add depth of quality.... Profit

Tobias is a small-time player. His mentality, although not as severe, leans towards the Ben Simmons fragility to retreat to his shell in tense or stressful moments.

Maybe if he was a bench piece at the end of his career, but he simply cannot handle the responsibility in the postseason of stepping up as your fourth scoring option when Embiid/Harden/Maxey weren't getting the job done.

[Jailblazers7]

One last thing on Haliburton....When he was with the Kings, he was averaging 14 PPG per game. He was in his 2nd year when he got traded. The idea that Morey would ever want Haliburton over Harden 2 years ago is pure comedy.

My best guess is that both things are true. Daryl never wanted Halliburton & was always focused on Harden. Sacramento also never made a serious offer built around Simmons for Halliburton. It always felt to me like Morey & Monte were just old friends using each other to generate useful headlines.

I bet Morey was interested in Haliburton before James started forcing his way out of Brooklyn. We had our iron in many fires with Ben prior to Harden becoming available.

True. Crazy to remember that we had a sizeable contingent on this board that didn’t think Fox was a good enough return for Simmons.

[Negrodamus]

My best guess is that both things are true. Daryl never wanted Halliburton & was always focused on Harden. Sacramento also never made a serious offer built around Simmons for Halliburton. It always felt to me like Morey & Monte were just old friends using each other to generate useful headlines.

I bet Morey was interested in Haliburton before James started forcing his way out of Brooklyn. We had our iron in many fires with Ben prior to Harden becoming available.

True. Crazy to remember that we had a sizeable contingent on this board that didn’t think Fox was a good enough return for Simmons.

Lmao, yea, a different time for sure.

[the_process]

Yea, I have to think it's DeRozan to maintain the flexibility Morey wants. Perhaps if DeMar hits it off with Embiid, he'd come back for a cap friendly deal. Like I said before, I actually think something like this could be in the works but will be waiting for recent draft picks to be eligible for trade. Bulls have to want to do a rebuild at this point.

The next move I'd do would be figuring out how to get Kevin Porter Jr here. Three scorers on the perimeter and Embiid. Figure out what to do with Tobias.

I'd need to keep one of the Clipper picks if it's DDR.

Probably not. I mean, both DeRozan and Harden are in all likelihood moving on to different teams at the end of next season as it currently stands. Harden only wants to go to one place. We're kinda in a restrictive negotiation position. That said, I think we could take on one of their role players. We trade out Korkmaz to the Clippers, they send back Covington.

I think there are a few extra pieces in the margins (like pick(s), prospects to Bulls), but something like this works:

Sixers get:
DeMar DeRozan
Robert Covington

Clippers get:
James Harden
Furkan Korkmaz

Bulls get:
Marcus Morris (cap relief next year)
Terance Mann
Kobe Brown

Gives flexibility to move Tobias if that's still in the cards for Morey.

I could see this:

Bulls get Marcus Morris, Powell, and 28 LAC 1st top 4 protected
Clippers get Harden and Tucker
Sixers get DDR, Covington, and 30 LAC 1st top 8 protected

Trading Harden for DDR is a big downgrade because you don’t solve any of Harden’s shortcomings (defense, choking) while also adding the new problem of DDR will not shoot 3’s. Gotta be at least a 1st for that swap.

If the Clips don’t want to give that much, then Harden needs to expand his list.

[mithrandir17]

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