Trade/Free Agency Thread, whose NINE is it anyways?? 2023-24

[Hal14]

Spoiler:

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Hmmmmm

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According to my sources, this is also the opening offer on the table for JB. So the signing delay is a bit understandable.

[keevsnick1]

Spoiler:

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Hmmmmm

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According to my sources, this is also the opening offer on the table for JB. So the signing delay is a bit understandable.

Brown: I'd like the full 35% max, a 15% Trade Kicker and a 5th year player option.

Brad: Best i can is 15/hr, a week of PTO (after 3 years), the right to wear jeans on Friday's and and 1 pizza party a quarter.

Brown: That's insulting.

Brad: All right, jeez. *Reaches into pockets*. I'll throw in a chipotle gift card with $16.59 left on it.

[zoyathedestroya]

Expanded roles and/or increased playing time for Hauser, White, Timelord, and Pritchard excite me as much as the addition of Porzingis. If I had full trust in Joe the way Brad has, I'd be even more excited for all the possibilities on offense with this stacked arsenal.

[zoyathedestroya]

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Did he really also say that about Pritchard? He was describing himself.

This was the original clip:

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Second copy pasta you fell for this summer

At least I don't start fights because of it. Lmao Dray.

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[Celts17Pride]

Ya I always find it funny when people say stuff like "What if star x, y or z gets hurt. the depth behind them is bad. The team will struggle!" And like....yes. If your stars get hurt you generally aren't winning a title. There's no amount of depth that's really going to fix that issue.

There is a huge difference between saying that about Tatum, Brown and White versus what I am saying about Brogdon, R Williams and Porzingis who are hurt all the time, every year.

[Hal14]

Ya I always find it funny when people say stuff like "What if star x, y or z gets hurt. the depth behind them is bad. The team will struggle!" And like....yes. If your stars get hurt you generally aren't winning a title. There's no amount of depth that's really going to fix that issue.

There is a huge difference between saying that about Tatum, Brown and White versus what I am saying about Brogdon, R Williams and Porzingis who are hurt all the time, every year.

Brogdon and Porzingis both played more games than Marcus Smart last season.

[Hal14]

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Brad, get ready to pounce if Wiggins or Kenrich williams becomes available via trade or free agency..

[Hal14]

The Garuba watch haha.

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[bisme37]

I've been thinking we need a legit pass-first playmaking point guard. But I have no idea who it is.

There are very few of them left in the league these days and most teams don't have one, including most of the recent champions. And then when I start thinking of names, most of them aren't better players than the guards we have and therefore would probably not even get minutes.

So now I'm wondering why I've been so obsessed with getting a pass-first playmaking point guard when it's not really a thing that most Championship teams have or need.

[Hal14]

I've been thinking we need a legit pass-first playmaking point guard. But I have no idea who it is.

There are very few of them left in the league these days and most team don't have one, including most of the recent champions. And then when I start thinking of names, most of them aren't better players than the guards we have and therefore would probably not even get minutes.

So now I'm wondering why I've been so obsessed with getting a pass-first playmaking point guard when it's not really a thing that most Championship teams have or need.

It's certainly a dying breed. Just like big centers who don't have very good quickness, athleticism, can't switch on the perimeter, can't be a playmaking hub, don't have ball skills..

With pass-first PG's, they often times end up being a liability on defense (because they're probably too small) and/or a liability on offense (because they can't score).

[Celts17Pride]

I've been thinking we need a legit pass-first playmaking point guard. But I have no idea who it is.

There are very few of them left in the league these days and most teams don't have one, including most of the recent champions. And then when I start thinking of names, most of them aren't better players than the guards we have and therefore would probably not even get minutes.

So now I'm wondering why I've been so obsessed with getting a pass-first playmaking point guard when it's not really a thing that most Championship teams have or need.

John Wall vet min. if you want a pass first point guard.

Personally I'm fine with a White, Pritchard, Banton rotation and moving Brogdon.

[31to6]

I've been thinking we need a legit pass-first playmaking point guard. But I have no idea who it is.

There are very few of them left in the league these days and most teams don't have one, including most of the recent champions. And then when I start thinking of names, most of them aren't better players than the guards we have and therefore would probably not even get minutes.

So now I'm wondering why I've been so obsessed with getting a pass-first playmaking point guard when it's not really a thing that most Championship teams have or need.

Bisme, I’d guess it might be because the last time we won a title we had Rondo, and/or because you grew up in the days of Magic Johnson, and/or because some simpletons with large microphones keep parroting it, and saying things like “I don’t know I don’t reeaally think of Derrick White as a point guard” and “of course you can’t depend on Malcolm Brogdon to stay healthy” — hey, half of this board says those things.

Derrick White will initiate the offense when Tatum doesn’t. Brogdon will stay healthy or not. I doubt the Celtics are looking for the mythological “pass-first point guard” either way because — as you said — they barely exist and especially not on title teams since Rondo fifteen **** years ago:)

[31to6]

Russell, Cowens, Parish, McHale, and KG all resulted in the Celtics winning a chip.

Celts never won a chip without a quality big man.

The 1990s resulted in ZERO championships for the Celtics because they had Radja, Battie, and Potapenko as bigs.

Basketball is a game for tall people.

The Celtics didn’t win a championship during the 1990s because after Bird retired and Reggie died, they **** sucked. And they didn’t have Bias as the star to carry them past Larry because he also **** died. Having a 6’1” shooting guard (Dee Brown) as your best player isn’t the way to build a champion, but that’s where bad luck put them. Oh and tanking for Timmy didn’t pay off. Thanks for bringing up a lot of painful memories!

Also: Dino is in the HOF and would’ve easily won titles as a key big if he’d been a Chicago Bull.
Also #2: Battie played for Boston from 1999 — 2003.

Dino made the HOF as an international player, not as an NBA player.

Don't confuse Dino's greatness in international competition with his NBA career because Dino never made an All-Star team in the NBA.

And when the Celtics played MJ and the Bulls, during Dino's time, Dino was always held in check by Horace Grant.

I’m not confusing anything — my point is that Dino was good enough to be a championship-winning big if he were lucky enough to be on a substantially talented roster, eg 1990s Bulls. Who, it might be further said, did not win a title because of their bigs, despite as you say “basketball being a game for tall people.”

Celtics didn’t not win a title in the 90s because of their lack of bigs. It was because of a lack of overall talent.

Not sure how this fits in with discussion of current Celtics trade/FA moves, so will leave it there.

[Hal14]

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Hmm, I wonder what team needs a combo-guard AND has enough cap space that they won't be hard capped by executing a S&T?

Perhaps he just signs for the TPMLE with a team that has the cap space to give him that deal (and needs guard depth) and then chicago just declines to match the offer?

Surely, Chicago will try to get *something* for him, at least..

[Larry_Russell]

I've been thinking we need a legit pass-first playmaking point guard. But I have no idea who it is.

There are very few of them left in the league these days and most teams don't have one, including most of the recent champions. And then when I start thinking of names, most of them aren't better players than the guards we have and therefore would probably not even get minutes.

So now I'm wondering why I've been so obsessed with getting a pass-first playmaking point guard when it's not really a thing that most Championship teams have or need.

Championship teams have a lead "playmaker" though.
Assist %s

Jokic 46.6
Warriors - 2 above 30
Bucks - 3 above 23
Lakers - Lebron at 49
Raptors - Lowry at 35
Warriors - 2 at 25 - 1 at 30
Warriors 1 at 27 and 1 at 31
Cavs LEbron 36 Kyrie 26
etc
etc
etc

All the championship teams have at least 1 guy at or above 30 with the exception of the bucks who had 3 guys over 23.


Based on last year numbers our top guys were
Smart at 26.5 ------Gone
Brogdon at 21.5
Tatum at 20.9
White at 19.5
Brown at 16.5


KP last year was 12.9

I am not sure where to find Whites assist% in games without Smart last year but his APG was just a smidge over 5. Shiort of Smarts average of 6.3

So that means our best passer will be at around 25% assist rate. Well short of needing at least one over 30.

[zoyathedestroya]

I've been thinking we need a legit pass-first playmaking point guard. But I have no idea who it is.

There are very few of them left in the league these days and most teams don't have one, including most of the recent champions. And then when I start thinking of names, most of them aren't better players than the guards we have and therefore would probably not even get minutes.

So now I'm wondering why I've been so obsessed with getting a pass-first playmaking point guard when it's not really a thing that most Championship teams have or need.

Championship teams have a lead "playmaker" though.
Assist %s

Jokic 46.6
Warriors - 2 above 30
Bucks - 3 above 23
Lakers - Lebron at 49
Raptors - Lowry at 35
Warriors - 2 at 25 - 1 at 30
Warriors 1 at 27 and 1 at 31
Cavs LEbron 36 Kyrie 26
etc
etc
etc

All the championship teams have at least 1 guy at or above 30 with the exception of the bucks who had 3 guys over 23.


Based on last year numbers our top guys were
Smart at 26.5 ------Gone
Brogdon at 21.5
Tatum at 20.9
White at 19.5
Brown at 16.5


KP last year was 12.9

I am not sure where to find Whites assist% in games without Smart last year but his APG was just a smidge over 5. Shiort of Smarts average of 6.3

So that means our best passer will be at around 25% assist rate. Well short of needing at least one over 30.

White was close to 28% assist rate in the 11-game stretch Smart was out. But I don’t think that’s the direction this team is going. I think we’ll use our bigs more in the half court as offensive hubs and lean more on Tatum as a primary playmaker.

Brogdon topped at 26.9% in his last season with the Pacers. He potentially could replicate that as the primary playmaker for the second unit.

[Green89]

I've been thinking we need a legit pass-first playmaking point guard. But I have no idea who it is.

There are very few of them left in the league these days and most teams don't have one, including most of the recent champions. And then when I start thinking of names, most of them aren't better players than the guards we have and therefore would probably not even get minutes.

So now I'm wondering why I've been so obsessed with getting a pass-first playmaking point guard when it's not really a thing that most Championship teams have or need.

There will never be a pass first PG in Joe's lineups. Even if we got one, he'd turn them into a shoot first player.

[steefP2]

Expanded roles and/or increased playing time for Hauser, White, Timelord, and Pritchard excite me as much as the addition of Porzingis. If I had full trust in Joe the way Brad has, I'd be even more excited for all the possibilities on offense with this stacked arsenal.

Yeah I certainly don’t have full trust in joe but I’m optimistic that with a full year of experience, a whole summer to prepare for the season and his team instead of 2 weeks and with the additions of cassel and Lee; it’ll be a lot better.

I don’t know how much better but looking at that; it can’t be anything but better right ?

Anyway offensively I have 0 concerns; even in the playoffs we had the 2nd ranked half court offense.

It’s the defense that wasn’t there so I’m hoping with the offense sorted, a great defensive assistant in Lee and a roster that fits very well for certain schemes it’ll be much improved there.


Last years roster was kinda stuck between styles.

But most importantly for the defense; if we get a good amount of minutes and games out of rob; we’re good.

He’s still the biggest difference maker.

Besides the jays continued rise (more looking at the Tatum last leap) and KP fitting in/keeping up his game, it’s white and rob who still have the most untapped potential here. Both cam and hopefully will be huge difference makers.

[Larry_Russell]

I've been thinking we need a legit pass-first playmaking point guard. But I have no idea who it is.

There are very few of them left in the league these days and most teams don't have one, including most of the recent champions. And then when I start thinking of names, most of them aren't better players than the guards we have and therefore would probably not even get minutes.

So now I'm wondering why I've been so obsessed with getting a pass-first playmaking point guard when it's not really a thing that most Championship teams have or need.

Championship teams have a lead "playmaker" though.
Assist %s

Jokic 46.6
Warriors - 2 above 30
Bucks - 3 above 23
Lakers - Lebron at 49
Raptors - Lowry at 35
Warriors - 2 at 25 - 1 at 30
Warriors 1 at 27 and 1 at 31
Cavs LEbron 36 Kyrie 26
etc
etc
etc

All the championship teams have at least 1 guy at or above 30 with the exception of the bucks who had 3 guys over 23.


Based on last year numbers our top guys were
Smart at 26.5 ------Gone
Brogdon at 21.5
Tatum at 20.9
White at 19.5
Brown at 16.5


KP last year was 12.9

I am not sure where to find Whites assist% in games without Smart last year but his APG was just a smidge over 5. Shiort of Smarts average of 6.3

So that means our best passer will be at around 25% assist rate. Well short of needing at least one over 30.

White was close to 28% assist rate in the 11-game stretch Smart was out. But I don’t think that’s the direction this team is going. I think we’ll use our bigs more in the half court as offensive hubs and lean more on Tatum as a primary playmaker.

Brogdon topped at 26.9% in his last season with the Pacers. He potentially could replicate that as the primary playmaker for the second unit.

If that is the play, with big and tatum initiating, then someone needs to up the assist rate bigtime.

Thats the point, GSWs best passer is Green, Jokic with Denver, Giannis with Bucks.

Someone needs to distibute.

1 time in the past 20ish years has a team won the title without someone in the 30s or above and that was the warriors with Curry, Draymond and Klay all above 23.

The chances of replicating that success is pretty low, imo, when history dictates needing at least 1 person who can settle down an offense and get everyone set up and get an offense started.
So low is the rate of success that you could count it on 1 hand. ANd that GSW team had 2 of the greatest shooters of all time who can get a shot off from anywhere at anytime....and they still made plays for teammates.


If our bigs and tatum are going to be primary distributors then Tatum needs to be in the 30s minimum (In the Giannis low to mid 30s) and White up his to mid 20s, and Porzingas and Brown both up theirs to the 20 range.

If that happens then I think we will be fine
A mid 30
a mid 20
and 3 other 20s (brown, KP, Brogdon)

It just has not happened yet, Jayson has been stagnant with his assist% since 2020-21 season (3 years)Brown too.


And if the plan is to jack threes, then no one is going to attack and kick, no one is going to want to put in effort to start that offense...not that I can see at least.

I hope I am wrong as I do not want a my turn your turn 3pointer heavy offense.

[darrendaye]

Championship teams have a lead "playmaker" though.
Assist %s

Jokic 46.6
Warriors - 2 above 30
Bucks - 3 above 23
Lakers - Lebron at 49
Raptors - Lowry at 35
Warriors - 2 at 25 - 1 at 30
Warriors 1 at 27 and 1 at 31
Cavs LEbron 36 Kyrie 26
etc
etc
etc

All the championship teams have at least 1 guy at or above 30 with the exception of the bucks who had 3 guys over 23.


Based on last year numbers our top guys were
Smart at 26.5 ------Gone
Brogdon at 21.5
Tatum at 20.9
White at 19.5
Brown at 16.5


KP last year was 12.9

I am not sure where to find Whites assist% in games without Smart last year but his APG was just a smidge over 5. Shiort of Smarts average of 6.3

So that means our best passer will be at around 25% assist rate. Well short of needing at least one over 30.

White was close to 28% assist rate in the 11-game stretch Smart was out. But I don’t think that’s the direction this team is going. I think we’ll use our bigs more in the half court as offensive hubs and lean more on Tatum as a primary playmaker.

Brogdon topped at 26.9% in his last season with the Pacers. He potentially could replicate that as the primary playmaker for the second unit.

If that is the play, with big and tatum initiating, then someone needs to up the assist rate bigtime.

Thats the point, GSWs best passer is Green, Jokic with Denver, Giannis with Bucks.

Someone needs to distibute.

1 time in the past 20ish years has a team won the title without someone in the 30s or above and that was the warriors with Curry, Draymond and Klay all above 23.

The chances of replicating that success is pretty low, imo, when history dictates needing at least 1 person who can settle down an offense and get everyone set up and get an offense started.
So low is the rate of success that you could count it on 1 hand. ANd that GSW team had 2 of the greatest shooters of all time who can get a shot off from anywhere at anytime....and they still made plays for teammates.


If our bigs and tatum are going to be primary distributors then Tatum needs to be in the 30s minimum (In the Giannis low to mid 30s) and White up his to mid 20s, and Porzingas and Brown both up theirs to the 20 range.

If that happens then I think we will be fine
A mid 30
a mid 20
and 3 other 20s (brown, KP, Brogdon)

It just has not happened yet, Jayson has been stagnant with his assist% since 2020-21 season (3 years)Brown too.


And if the plan is to jack threes, then no one is going to attack and kick, no one is going to want to put in effort to start that offense...not that I can see at least.

I hope I am wrong as I do not want a my turn your turn 3pointer heavy offense.

Tatum is the supermax cusp MVP guy on the team, he needs to push through.