2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation - Free Agency Begins

[bwgood77]

Ayton is criticized because he was the 1st overall pick and is on a max contract extension yet objectively hasn't lived up to either thing.

If he was the 15th pick and making $15 mil a year the conversation would be different.

It's really that simple.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

I don't think it would matter much if we was paid less than the max. He took a ton of criticism when on a rookie deal.

Or if he was the #3 or 4 pick.

Even before the max extension, he was far more hated by many than huge busts like Jackson, Bender, etc.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that.

Although there is a unique aspect with Ayton where half the fan base didn't want to draft him in the first place so that probably contributes. Especially since the guy the other half wanted ended up really good. I do think some of his biggest current haters were people who wanted to draft him and now feel like he let them down.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

If so, at some point it seems people should stop measuring him based on being a #1 pick. It doesn't make sense to continue comparing with Luka..no point.

I don't feel many guys who haven't lived up are still measured by being a #1 pick, (Wiggins, Fultz, even Simmons). We've had so many complete busts as well.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I don't think it would matter much if we was paid less than the max. He took a ton of criticism when on a rookie deal.

Or if he was the #3 or 4 pick.

Even before the max extension, he was far more hated by many than huge busts like Jackson, Bender, etc.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that.

Although there is a unique aspect with Ayton where half the fan base didn't want to draft him in the first place so that probably contributes. Especially since the guy the other half wanted ended up really good. I do think some of his biggest current haters were people who wanted to draft him and now feel like he let them down.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

If so, at some point it seems people should stop measuring him based on being a #1 pick. It doesn't make sense to continue comparing with Luka..no point.

I don't feel many guys who haven't lived up are still measured by being a #1 pick, (Wiggins, Fultz, even Simmons). We've had so many complete busts as well.

All those dudes you mentioned got traded and aren't exactly popular in the places that picked them. Being the number 1 overall pick has prestige and you're viewed as a franchise savior. It's not really fair but it is what it is.

Yeah logically everyone should just move on from the Luka thing but sports fandom is built on emotion not logic. Logically none of us should care about any of this as much as we do.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

[lilfishi22]

A system to maximize what abilities? Jump hooks and mid range shots? You act like they are neglecting Hakeem Olajuwon here, all bigs set screens, pick and roll rules the NBA, Vogel gonna do the same thing.

You have to wonder why Monty didn't like him, he didn't have a problem with Booker, Bridges, either Cam, even sorry ass Shamet, but couldn't make Ayton work, why is that? Effort? Buy in? You think Monty just had it out for him? Why would he do that? What possible benefit would there be?

I don’t wonder why anything with Monty. Dude is weirdo with a lover affair for Shamet. Monty didn’t improve a single player under his leadership. Every player got better away from him.

That's simply not true. You can hate on Monty but Booker is a significantly better player now than before. Bridges and both Cams got better. Ironically three of Aytons backups (McGee, Jock, Baynes) had career years under Monty.

Heck Ayton even with his frustrations is a better player than the completely f-ing lost on D guy he was before Monty took over.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

Ayton 100% got better under Monty as well. All I ever hear about is that historic 2021 playoff run that DA had but who was that under? And I would also say the season after the 2021 playoff run was easily his best regular season as well, also under Monty

[bwgood77]

We'll have to agree to disagree on that.

Although there is a unique aspect with Ayton where half the fan base didn't want to draft him in the first place so that probably contributes. Especially since the guy the other half wanted ended up really good. I do think some of his biggest current haters were people who wanted to draft him and now feel like he let them down.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

If so, at some point it seems people should stop measuring him based on being a #1 pick. It doesn't make sense to continue comparing with Luka..no point.

I don't feel many guys who haven't lived up are still measured by being a #1 pick, (Wiggins, Fultz, even Simmons). We've had so many complete busts as well.

All those dudes you mentioned got traded and aren't exactly popular in the places that picked them. Being the number 1 overall pick has prestige and you're viewed as a franchise savior. It's not really fair but it is what it is.

Yeah logically everyone should just move on from the Luka thing but sports fandom is built on emotion not logic. Logically none of us should care about any of this as much as we do.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

Yeah, the view on him would be much different and better if he was traded, given it would likely be a team getting an upgrade. There are a lot of picks I am not happy with but after it's done, what can you do. I wanted Luka. I do still mention Haliburton but I wouldn't use that to rag on Jalen Smith if we still had him. I'd just know he was pretty much a bust. I don't think Ayton is really a bust. There are others better in his draft class but he still can put up some great numbers and play well.

[lilfishi22]

Ayton is criticized because he was the 1st overall pick and is on a max contract extension yet objectively hasn't lived up to either thing.

If he was the 15th pick and making $15 mil a year the conversation would be different.

It's really that simple.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

I don't think it would matter much if we was paid less than the max. He took a ton of criticism when on a rookie deal.

Or if he was the #3 or 4 pick.

Even before the max extension, he was far more hated by many than huge busts like Jackson, Bender, etc.

That's simply because they weren't around long enough. If either of them actually got extended by the Suns to something like 15-20% of the salary cap, I can guarantee they'll get hated on.

[Dr Manute]

We know he is capable. That's why it's so upsetting when Landale is outplaying him.

For a franchise that twice just missed (had the #2 pick) when the #1 picks were Kareem and David Robinson - we finally got our #1 pick (franchise's only). We drafted a center that has a 44 inch vertical, 260lbs with 7% body fat, and is quick enough to guard a PG if switched. We passed on Doncic to get him. To say we expect a lot from him is an understatement.

But - I believe this is a special year - This is the year the Suns win their 1st championship and our #1 pick will be a major reason why.

Time for DominAyton to help bring the 1st championship to Phoenix!

[bigfoot]

If you can’t criticize an underachieving player then this forum has lost its purpose.

That what 50% of this board does. 50% of posters here get their joy by personally attacking Ayton. So trust me, the word “can’t” isn’t stopping people from attacking the kid.

With that said. There literally is no balance in peoples opinions on here. Perfect example, Ayton haters say he can’t rebound yet he is a top 10 rebounder. It’s fine to criticize but put some substance behind it instead of pure uncut hate.

Here is some substance, I believe you meant top 12 in rebounds per game ...

https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/player/_/season/2023/seasontype/2/table/general/sort/avgRebounds/dir/desc

#11 in field goal percentage
#58 in blocks per game
#68 in points per game
#82 in free throw attempts per game
#211 in assists per game
#272 in steal per game

Now put in perspective with a guy like Shawn Marion who couldn't get a max contract after putting up 20ppg, 11rpg, 2spg, and 1.5bpg. He was also a four time all-star.

Our expectations for Ayton should have been high since he was an overall first pick. Expectations should continue to be high after he received a max contract. We have to ask why do high expectations equate to hate or attacking Ayton. If the cause of his problems are because he is soft or low motor or low IQ or low motivation then we should be able to point it out. Every other player or front office member gets his due (e.g., Hero-ball Booker, old man, always injured CP3, XO lacking Monty, sit-on-his-hands JJ). Ayton needs to just suck it up and put on his big girl britches.

[darealjuice]

Ayton is dead wrong that he has no fans lol, he's just the most divisive Suns player in recent history by a pretty wide margin

[WeekapaugGroove]

If so, at some point it seems people should stop measuring him based on being a #1 pick. It doesn't make sense to continue comparing with Luka..no point.

I don't feel many guys who haven't lived up are still measured by being a #1 pick, (Wiggins, Fultz, even Simmons). We've had so many complete busts as well.

All those dudes you mentioned got traded and aren't exactly popular in the places that picked them. Being the number 1 overall pick has prestige and you're viewed as a franchise savior. It's not really fair but it is what it is.

Yeah logically everyone should just move on from the Luka thing but sports fandom is built on emotion not logic. Logically none of us should care about any of this as much as we do.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

Yeah, the view on him would be much different and better if he was traded, given it would likely be a team getting an upgrade. There are a lot of picks I am not happy with but after it's done, what can you do. I wanted Luka. I do still mention Haliburton but I wouldn't use that to rag on Jalen Smith if we still had him. I'd just know he was pretty much a bust. I don't think Ayton is really a bust. There are others better in his draft class but he still can put up some great numbers and play well.

Ayton isn't a bust, it would actually be a lot simpler if he was. He falls around the Andrew Bogut level of 1st pick, good player but not exactly a franchise changer. Now if Amare hadn't hit him on that dunk causing Boguts elbow to explode maybe things would have been different.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

[Blonde]

It’s the inconsistency from Ayton that generates much of the “hating” discourse. If he just sucked ass consistently like Bender/Chriss/Jackson then there isn’t even much to talk about it. Those guys were busts, whatever, move on. But when a guy plays at an A+ level for an entire playoffs (coach by Monty, mind you) then shows up and gives minimal effort every other game and has a huge slide on defense, it’s fair to ask what the hell is going on with this guy. He wouldn’t get hate if people didn’t realize he was a damn talented player who we need to play at his best to win a championship. We all want him to be great, but what’s holding him back? He showed he could be great with Monty. He got paid. I’m sure he has the IQ to understand he’s not an offensive engine like Booker/Durant so he’s not going to get a ton of iso/post ups (when he did in Jan/Feb the results were not good). Just give 100% effort every game, that’s all anyone is asking.

[bigfoot]

“We never called a play for Shawn, but he’d still have 20 points and 10 rebounds,” Stoudemire said.

Ayton needs to read this ... https://www.nba.com/suns/features/shawn-marion-versatility-ahead-his-time

[KdoubleDees23]

Ayton is right though. Has no fans because all y’all would rather put our player down in a hateful manner than critique him. Most people on here attack him and talk down on him daily.

Y’all some horrible fans

[KdoubleDees23]

Its funny to me how sensitive some people are about Ayton, especially when what I said was a joke aimed at his lack of ability to create. Good lord.

Nah your racist shut up and dribble comment was what got me ! That was used in a racial tension when used and you used it again

[TOO]

Its funny to me how sensitive some people are about Ayton, especially when what I said was a joke aimed at his lack of ability to create. Good lord.

Nah your racist shut up and dribble comment was what got me ! That was used in a racial tension when used and you used it again

Lol. You're nuts.

[enigmatics]

Ayton is right though. Has no fans because all y’all would rather put our player down in a hateful manner than critique him. Most people on here attack him and talk down on him daily.

Y’all some horrible fans

Acknowledging Ayton's limitations/underachievements doesn't make anyone a poor fan. It's the Phoenix Suns - he's not the team. He will be long gone at some point while I'm still rooting them on.

[bwoolf2]

Ayton is right though. Has no fans because all y’all would rather put our player down in a hateful manner than critique him. Most people on here attack him and talk down on him daily.

Y’all some horrible fans

Acknowledging Ayton's limitations/underachievements doesn't make anyone a poor fan. It's the Phoenix Suns - he's not the team. He will be long gone at some point while I'm still rooting them on.

You seem to be a pretty knowledgeable poster but god damn you are beating the hell out of a dead horse on the daily.

What I don't get is just posters saying the sane thing over and over and over, you like him or hate him no need to just repeat the same arguments daily is what I don't get.

[enigmatics]

Ayton is right though. Has no fans because all y’all would rather put our player down in a hateful manner than critique him. Most people on here attack him and talk down on him daily.

Y’all some horrible fans

Acknowledging Ayton's limitations/underachievements doesn't make anyone a poor fan. It's the Phoenix Suns - he's not the team. He will be long gone at some point while I'm still rooting them on.

You seem to be a pretty knowledgeable poster but god damn you are beating the hell out of a dead horse on the daily.

What I don't get is just posters saying the sane thing over and over and over, you like him or hate him no need to just repeat the same arguments daily is what I don't get.

You do it as much as anyone else and If I wanted permission to speak or repeat myself about ANY topic I'd ask for it.

The funny part is I've purposely reduced the amount of times I respond to these Ayton spats. So yeah ...

[Fo-Real]

So yeah, excited about the team. Yall got **** issues.

[lilfishi22]

So yeah, excited about the team. Yall got **** issues.

I don't think I've been more excited about an upcoming season in some time. I think I'm even more excited now than I was for the beginning of the season after we got to the Finals mainly because this is basically a completely new team and the possibilities are endless whereas we basically ran it back for the 2021-2022 season which is less exciting.

[kennydorglas]

More words from Ayton. I'd tell him to shut up and dribble, but he can't do that either.

You are the problem with fans! These are humans as well and y’all are a bunch of non athletic cupcakes ! I hope he shuts y’all up then asks for a trade

I hope he shuts me up and then asks for a trade too.

win win for everyone.
but we all know how this will end.