Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft.

[Whole Truth]

Start of a new year but I think an old topic is well worth rehashing. CJ says he will do whatever it takes to win. If that is the case. With a healthy roster, I want to revisit CJ as the, Manu, supersub ..

Trey Murphy is & will be his most valuable self playing off of Zion's & BI"s gravity, than trying to create for himself off the bench & vice versa. Zion & BI would benefit his 3pt gravity like CJ off ball but with a lack of required touches & excessive ball handling .. Whereas playing CJ off ball, while effective, reduces his individual skillset & worth. NO's would get more out of his ability creating for himself strengthing the 2nd unit as a primary option. Doesn't mean he wouldn't close games accordingly.

Balancing a roster & the players skillsets is an important task to get the most out both.

Jonas - post phisicality, minutes eater/Nance - versatility, spacing
Zion - Intiator
Murphy - spacing
Herb - defense
BI - Initiator

Nance - defensive versatility/Jonas - secondary offensive option to CJ
EJ -
Daniels -
CJ - Supersub, primary bench option
Jose -

[Duke4life831]

Start of a new year but I think an old topic is well worth rehashing. CJ says he will do whatever it takes to win. If that is the case. With a healthy roster, I want to revisit CJ as the, Manu, supersub ..

Trey Murphy is & will be his most valuable self playing off of Zion's & BI"s gravity, than trying to create for himself off the bench & vice versa. Zion & BI would benefit his 3pt gravity like CJ off ball but with a lack of required touches & excessive ball handling .. Whereas playing CJ off ball, while effective, reduces his individual skillset & worth. NO's would get more out of his ability creating for himself strengthing the 2nd unit as a primary option. Doesn't mean he wouldn't close games accordingly.

Balancing a roster & the players skillsets is an important task to get the most out both.

Jonas - post phisicality, minutes eater/Nance - versatility, spacing
Zion - Intiator
Murphy - spacing
Herb - defense
BI - Initiator

Nance - defensive versatility/Jonas - secondary offensive option to CJ
EJ -
Daniels -
CJ - Supersub, primary bench option
Jose -

Ya I doubt it happens but I agree this should be the route they go with. I think a few things late in the season were shown to be something to build off of for this year.

1. Trey just needs to start.
2. BI can handle the point forward role.

Just look at how these two closed the season and the last 15 games.

Trey: 21ppg on 51/46/90 shooting
BI: 28/6/8 on 51/38/90 shooting. Its also not like BI's 8 assists per game came with 5-6 turnovers per game. He averaged 8 assists to 3.5 turnovers. That is pretty solid.

I feel like you kind of want to keep letting these guys shine in these kind of situations and keep getting better. Dont send Trey back to the bench, and dont have BI playing 3rd fiddle behind Zion and CJ. Trey needs to start to provide legit spacing and he needs to get his shots. And BI should have the ball in his hands more than a 3rd option. You also dont want to lose Herb's defense in the starting lineup. The easy solution in all of this is sending CJ to the bench as the 6th man. Trey definitely needs to start, I dont see how that can really be all that debatable anymore.

[Whole Truth]

Start of a new year but I think an old topic is well worth rehashing. CJ says he will do whatever it takes to win. If that is the case. With a healthy roster, I want to revisit CJ as the, Manu, supersub ..

Trey Murphy is & will be his most valuable self playing off of Zion's & BI"s gravity, than trying to create for himself off the bench & vice versa. Zion & BI would benefit his 3pt gravity like CJ off ball but with a lack of required touches & excessive ball handling .. Whereas playing CJ off ball, while effective, reduces his individual skillset & worth. NO's would get more out of his ability creating for himself strengthing the 2nd unit as a primary option. Doesn't mean he wouldn't close games accordingly.

Balancing a roster & the players skillsets is an important task to get the most out both.

Jonas - post phisicality, minutes eater/Nance - versatility, spacing
Zion - Intiator
Murphy - spacing
Herb - defense
BI - Initiator

Nance - defensive versatility/Jonas - secondary offensive option to CJ
EJ -
Daniels -
CJ - Supersub, primary bench option
Jose -

Ya I doubt it happens but I agree this should be the route they go with. I think a few things late in the season were shown to be something to build off of for this year.

1. Trey just needs to start.
2. BI can handle the point forward role.

Just look at how these two closed the season and the last 15 games.

Trey: 21ppg on 51/46/90 shooting
BI: 28/6/8 on 51/38/90 shooting. Its also not like BI's 8 assists per game came with 5-6 turnovers per game. He averaged 8 assists to 3.5 turnovers. That is pretty solid.

I feel like you kind of want to keep letting these guys shine in these kind of situations and keep getting better. Dont send Trey back to the bench, and dont have BI playing 3rd fiddle behind Zion and CJ. Trey needs to start to provide legit spacing and he needs to get his shots. And BI should have the ball in his hands more than a 3rd option. You also dont want to lose Herb's defense in the starting lineup. The easy solution in all of this is sending CJ to the bench as the 6th man. Trey definitely needs to start, I dont see how that can really be all that debatable anymore.

Another good post Duke unlike me you don't say much but when you do it's quality. Great point about pushing & encouraging the development of Murphy as a starter. Didn't cross my mind in thinking about the potential fit & maximization of the individual skillsets.

[Duke4life831]

Start of a new year but I think an old topic is well worth rehashing. CJ says he will do whatever it takes to win. If that is the case. With a healthy roster, I want to revisit CJ as the, Manu, supersub ..

Trey Murphy is & will be his most valuable self playing off of Zion's & BI"s gravity, than trying to create for himself off the bench & vice versa. Zion & BI would benefit his 3pt gravity like CJ off ball but with a lack of required touches & excessive ball handling .. Whereas playing CJ off ball, while effective, reduces his individual skillset & worth. NO's would get more out of his ability creating for himself strengthing the 2nd unit as a primary option. Doesn't mean he wouldn't close games accordingly.

Balancing a roster & the players skillsets is an important task to get the most out both.

Jonas - post phisicality, minutes eater/Nance - versatility, spacing
Zion - Intiator
Murphy - spacing
Herb - defense
BI - Initiator

Nance - defensive versatility/Jonas - secondary offensive option to CJ
EJ -
Daniels -
CJ - Supersub, primary bench option
Jose -

Ya I doubt it happens but I agree this should be the route they go with. I think a few things late in the season were shown to be something to build off of for this year.

1. Trey just needs to start.
2. BI can handle the point forward role.

Just look at how these two closed the season and the last 15 games.

Trey: 21ppg on 51/46/90 shooting
BI: 28/6/8 on 51/38/90 shooting. Its also not like BI's 8 assists per game came with 5-6 turnovers per game. He averaged 8 assists to 3.5 turnovers. That is pretty solid.

I feel like you kind of want to keep letting these guys shine in these kind of situations and keep getting better. Dont send Trey back to the bench, and dont have BI playing 3rd fiddle behind Zion and CJ. Trey needs to start to provide legit spacing and he needs to get his shots. And BI should have the ball in his hands more than a 3rd option. You also dont want to lose Herb's defense in the starting lineup. The easy solution in all of this is sending CJ to the bench as the 6th man. Trey definitely needs to start, I dont see how that can really be all that debatable anymore.

Another good post Duke unlike me you don't say much but when you do it's quality. Great point about pushing & encouraging the development of Murphy as a starter. Didn't cross my mind in thinking about the potential fit & maximization of the individual skillsets.

Haha I have plenty of horrific nonsense posts.

But my main thing really when it comes to Trey is, dude proved he was ready to be a full time starter. You don’t pull the e brake on that and send him back to the bench. Even if it’s similar minutes, he has a perfect skill set to be in the starting lineup. Especially if your #1 and #2 scoring options are Zion and BI. Trey can drop 20 without needing to dribble the ball too much. And you’re forcing a guy with size have to stick on the perimeter.

But ya you also start him to keep seeing if there are more levels to his game he can keep progressing to. I think it would be really dumb to send him back to the bench. Plus again I think CJ has the ideal skill set to be a 6th man. I feel like all signs point to that being the move. I just don’t know if it happens. I wouldn’t be shocked if they move Herb to the bench (which would be a really stupid move. You need his point of attack defense out there).

[Whole Truth]

Haha I have plenty of horrific nonsense posts.

But my main thing really when it comes to Trey is, dude proved he was ready to be a full time starter. You don’t pull the e brake on that and send him back to the bench. Even if it’s similar minutes, he has a perfect skill set to be in the starting lineup. Especially if your #1 and #2 scoring options are Zion and BI. Trey can drop 20 without needing to dribble the ball too much. And you’re forcing a guy with size have to stick on the perimeter.

But ya you also start him to keep seeing if there are more levels to his game he can keep progressing to. I think it would be really dumb to send him back to the bench. Plus again I think CJ has the ideal skill set to be a 6th man. I feel like all signs point to that being the move. I just don’t know if it happens. I wouldn’t be shocked if they move Herb to the bench (which would be a really stupid move. You need his point of attack defense out there).

We've both for a while believed CJ's skillset & fit is best utilized for NO's as the supersub.

Now as you rightly point out, he's blocking needed development where the bench unit would make the most of his creation ability aposed to a unit with 2 better creators in it.. On the bench as the primary his offensive ability paired with the defensive acumen of Daniels & Nance where CJ is an equally poor defensive fit with Jonas in the 1-5 pnr... Reason CJ has faired better with Nance & Jonas had a drop off last yr ...

Herb as the defensive backbone is a championship type glue guy for this roster even with all his current spacing issues. Moving him to the bench, doesn't balance the roster defensively. Instead NO's would have all the teams defenders, Herb/Dyson & Nance all coming off the bench.

I also want the ball in BI & Zion's hands more, where CJ dominates the ball. NO's end up playing down to CJ's efficiency, not Zion's

None is saying Green can't close games with the vet .. Some will argue an early sub but I'd point out rythym comes into play not getting a cold start over coming in a microwave type situation, where not everyone, is Vin Baker.

Jonas - Nance/Zeller or Robbins
Zion - Nance/EJ
Murphy - Dyson
Herb - CJ
BI - Jose

[NO-KG-AI]

I don't think a lot of coaches are ready to just go away from traditional size roles and such. I'd love to see that lineup where Herb/Zion are the shortest guys with Trey as a starter, but Willie isn't going to go away from his 6'2 vet who he views as a need at PG, because their isn't another short guy in the lineup

Trey could very easily join Lauri Markannen's club of 1 right now, 200+ 3's in a season, and 100+ dunks. Even if he doesn't start opening day, you have to think someone will be out of the starting lineup almost always unfortunately. Trey probably starts 40-50 games even in his worst case scenario and plays over 30 minutes.

I agree with the balance thing, but if Trey plays 30+ minutes and does it with lineups that fit his strengths, his development won't be stunted.

[Whole Truth]

I don't think a lot of coaches are ready to just go away from traditional size roles and such. I'd love to see that lineup where Herb/Zion are the shortest guys with Trey as a starter, but Willie isn't going to go away from his 6'2 vet who he views as a need at PG, because their isn't another short guy in the lineup

Trey could very easily join Lauri Markannen's club of 1 right now, 200+ 3's in a season, and 100+ dunks. Even if he doesn't start opening day, you have to think someone will be out of the starting lineup almost always unfortunately. Trey probably starts 40-50 games even in his worst case scenario and plays over 30 minutes.

I agree with the balance thing, but if Trey plays 30+ minutes and does it with lineups that fit his strengths, his development won't be stunted.

People who follow trends are not as successful as those who set them.

I would also like to see a bench lineup of -

Nance
Zion
Murphy
Hawkins
CJ

The defense is questionable but the offense should be very efficient.

[NO-KG-AI]

People who follow trends are not as successful as those who set them.

Agreed, but it is what it is. I remember the people freaking out and saying you could never win shooting as many 3's as the 04-05 Suns were doing (24.7 per game). They'd be last by a huge margin if you shot that number today. They'd me 4.2 per game behind the dead last team of today. That's a bigger gap than there was between 16th and last place.

Nobody wants to break the mold and fail and look like a quack.

[Whole Truth]

People who follow trends are not as successful as those who set them.

Agreed, but it is what it is. I remember the people freaking out and saying you could never win shooting as many 3's as the 04-05 Suns were doing (24.7 per game). They'd be last by a huge margin if you shot that number today. They'd me 4.2 per game behind the dead last team of today. That's a bigger gap than there was between 16th and last place.

Nobody wants to break the mold and fail and look like a quack.

The thing that kills me is Billionaires should know, if not inheritance. To find success, you have to take risks, Invest & reinvest. There's no one way to build a team. It's asset accumulation & refinement. (Monopoly) The more assets you own the easier it is to build & refine your way to success. The makeup & play style should be predicated on the strength of personel, not a league wide perceived mold. NO's can't build around Zion/BI like GS did around 2 of the best shooting guards the league has seen.. Green would be a poor post fit with Zion but works in GS's spacing... Denver just won with an offensive centre. Lets see the league try to emulate Jokic, lol. We already know it's hard to emulate GS, ask the Hawks.

Trying something new & taking a risk, is not crazy, it's bold & inventive. What's crazy is every year, there's 1 success story of a select few repeat teams, which means the rest experience varying degrees of failure off the same mold..Doing the same thing over expecting different results, whcih is the very definition of insanity, replicated failure. There's 1 Curry, 1 Greene & 1 GS. What's crazy, is wanting to be the Hawks, a shell of what GS is.

Correct me if I'm wrong, That 04-05 Suns team was run by J.Colangelo ?

Guess who tried to bring the stretch 5 on the scene. B,Colangelo in drafting Bargnani to play next to Bosh, at a time Howard & traditional 5's were still relevant. He got fired for failure to execute his vision, which is now a current trend. His failure was in player selection & roster makeup but his vision was well ahead of it's time.

I rather fail by doing, than fail to try. It's when you fail to try you really lose. See the teams that will never be anything but copycats.

[Whole Truth]

Question to NO's fans

If Boston were to include Williams in a Portland Jrue trade, what would you give up to subvert Williams to NO's ?

[Whole Truth]

(Kira, #15 motion shooter Hawkins for Williams)
(Kira, #8 Daniels, Herb like defender for Williams)
Other ?

Jonas - Williams - Zeller
Zion - Nance - EJ
BI - Murphy - Naji
Herb - (Hawkins or Daniels) ?
CJ - Alvarado

[Whole Truth]

With Portland looking like they will keep Williams but trade Brogdon. Knicks having rumored interest in Brogdon.

Knicks trade - (Robinson, Fournier, FRP) for (Brogdon, Morris)

Clippers trade - (Morris, Powell, FRP) for (CJ)

Portland trade - (Brogdon) for (Fournier, Knicks FRP, Clippers FRP)

NO's trade - (CJ) for (Robinson, Powell)

Jonas - Robinson - Nance
Zion - Nance
Murphy - Naji
Herb - Powell/Hawkins
BI - Daniels/Alvarado

As long as CJ is here, all of Murphy,, Daniels & Hawkins, PT & development will get stunted. For some like myself, who think CJ would be best suited coming off the bench in a 6th man role. He's traded here for a defensive rim runner & a 6th man in Powell addressing a lot of differing needs from centre depth & rim protection to clearing PT & development mins, as well as clearing long term max salary commitment for when BI needs to be extended.

I thought about sending Powell to Knicks in exchange to get Hart back with Robinson.

[Whole Truth]

Portland is saying they want Daniels for Williams.

I'm thinking - (Kira, Daniels) for (Williams, GS 24, 1 of the Bucks swap picks)

Williams sures up the front court to help contend now & the Bucks potential lotto swap returns future value lost giving up Daniels potential.

Jonas - Williams - Nance
Zion - Nance
BI - Murphy
Herb - Hawkins
CJ - Alvarado

+ GS 24, Bucks swap

[Whole Truth]

If NO's believe in Daniels/Murphy/Hawkins upside & don't want to part.. Then trade CJ to NY for Robinson & Hart to open the guard position for the developing young players Damiels, Murphy & Hawkins.

NO's trade (CJ) for (Robinson, Hart)

Jonas - Robinson - Nance
Zion - Nance
Murphy - Daniels/Naji
Herb - Hawkins/Hart
BI - Alvarado/Daniels

It also removes a max contract for when NO's are facing BI's extension.

[Whole Truth]

Williams is not just a rim protector. He can defend the perimeter, effectively switch & rebound which the team struggled to do with Jonas off court. His major issue is availability. However with Jonas & Nance Pelicans would be doing what Celtics were hoping to do with a injury risk in Porzingis & ageing vet in Horford, at half the cost.

Boston C rotation - Prozingis, Horford, Williams = 60m

NO's potential C rotation - Jonas, Williams, Nance = 37m

Prozingis is the better floor spacer & defender but Jonas is more reliable as a minute eater at less than half the cost, which means a lot for a long season & a healthy PO run when your front court like Boston & NO's are injury prone. The cheaper effective/cost of Jonas ends up the difference in the viability of more quality depth.

Williams addresses the lack of rim protection, defensive switchabilty & quality depth behind Jonas.

Nance provides the spacing option that Willaims doesn't have as a small ball 5.

Williams helps bridge a seamless minute gap from Jonas to Nance so Nance doesn't have to log heavy mins at C, where he would be susceptible to breaking down.

Overall, even with Williams injury concerns, the collective group eases the overall situation. Nance goes down, you potentially have Williams & vice versa with a reliable Jonas eating up mins to help keep the rotation as healthy as possible for a PO run, if utilized correctly.

[Butter]

The Pelicans starting depth chart looks like it will be

PG: CJ McCollum
SG: Herb Jones
SF: Brandon Ingram
PF: Zion
C: Jonas Valanciunas

What is your biggest need for upgrade? Center?

[NO-KG-AI]

I thought Memphis’ front court did a great job of making it harder on Zion and Jonas early. But it’s like fighting a big body puncher, or tackling a bruising running back, I thought their strength and physicality just wore down JJJ over the course of the game and everything got easier for the Pels as the game went on. Hope off ball, shooter CJ is here to stay. Really liked the ball movemement and player movement tonight.

Wasn’t all pretty, but a strong start on the road against an always game team!

[Whole Truth]

The most concerning thing last night is going to be the lead up to what I have been waiting to say.

Say what you want about how poorly Pelicans played with Jokic on court. What's concerning is, not just Zion but Zion & BI lost their minutes on court, with Jokic off court last night against a weak Denver bench. There was both strategic & chemistry issues.

I was going to do a full opinion post on what I've observed over the last couple seasons into these first few games. Decided it best to narrow it down to the most important issue... Zion..

The key to any good offense is it's lack of predictability. With Zion, people who don't even watch basketball knows what he wants to do with it .. Even with Jonas shooting better than 40%, CJ's strong early start & the revelations that are Matt & Hawkins, teams are still choosing to pack the paint & Denvers weak bench turned their Zone defense into a positive outcome as the shooting went cold 2nd half.

The issue as I see it, is no longer a lack of spacing for Zion but the lack of versatility & usage in his game. I've seen Zion take & make 3's. This should be a needed development in his game to stop teams from loading up the paint. Having shooters is not going to rectify this... See Raptors, Bucks playoffs where Giannis dominated the first 2 games but Bucks folded 4 straight when Raptors went Box 1 turning Giannis into a 3pt shooter..

Zion doesn't have the length or motor that Giannis has nor his defensive & rebounding acumen.

Solution - If Pelicans are going to ride Zion to contention, in the minutes he's playing with Jonas on court, let him start taking 3's, with Jonas setting up for the rebound, for better or worse. This is a must development if contention is the goal. It will be his & NO's only solution to rectify the predictability of the offense with Zion on court.

Just to hit home, in 3 of the 4 early wins, Zion was a negative +/- and he was sitting for the 4th win.

[Whole Truth]

Rebounding is also an issue for the Pels. I would be interested in seeing the rebounding numbers with & without Zion. I'm thinking teams defensive strategy on Zion plays into this issue..

[Whole Truth]

I've watched Jonas long career from Raptors to Memphis. The pnr with Lowry was the Raptors offensive bread & butter as NO's have recently seen with CJ effectively running it with him off the bench. He went to Memphis, it was him setting picks for JA. Over his long career, Jonas has set more screens than any other player in the league. He was and still is an elite screen assist player, for as long as I can remember.

However since going to NO's, I can't help but notice the sudden increase in moving violations, where he's barely moving in relation to what most other big men commit (Gobert).. & usually, the timing of these violations always seems to be at the worst possible times where other teams are going on runs... funny that. Subjectivity for the win. lol

Maybe it's not the refs & after successfully setting so many picks over his long career, he suddenly forgot how & is now committing more moving violations than ever

LMAO

Make no mistake, once Pels went up 20, refs calls & non calls, helped swing momentum back into Denver's favor.

Know why they didn't show Gordon's blk on Jonas dunk attempt on replay... because it would have shown a foul being committed, a game changing blk like that & not once did the broadcast replay it, lol & of course followed by the weak moving screen call which put Jonas on the bench for the second half ..

Hard to look effective when refs are controlling the amount of contact you get & the contact you give, unfairly.

Could be why they didn't notice the fouls Jokic committed (even their announcer had to admit he got away with one) same call refs had just given NO's & why Zion who was driving in the paint all night, had only one FT attempt.

It's unfortunate. Refs controlled the Denver run but NO's mentally collapsed as a result of it.