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JustBuzzin wrote:No wonder Harden and KD are still single. These dudes aren't comfortable staying in a committed relationship. They leave for the pretty girl every time.
One Last Shot wrote:Pointgod wrote:Tor_Raps wrote:How much can Philly ask for a guy who can't sign an extension and they didn't want to pay themselves.
He would be absolutely perfect for the Raptors but just can't see it happening.
Exactly. Harden is a one year contract that has to be resigned with cap space. No team should overpay for Harden
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the team who will trade for Harden will get his bird rights and doesn't need cap space to sign him next season, he can't just sign a new contract until the end of the year because he opts in to his 2 year contract that restrict him to sign any contract extension during the season even wtih Sixers.
docholliday99 wrote:Morey did f'k him over. Morey asked Harden to take less money last year so they can add Tucker. Harden opted out of his PO and signed a lower than market contract on a 1+PO with the Sixers - Sixers then signed Tucker; in return, Harden was expecting a max this offseason to compensate. .
Whole Truth wrote:If I have this straight. Harden is upset Morey backed out of a non binding agreement because things changed. Which he has every legal right to do whether it's moral or not. Harden's mistake for not making it legally binding. but Players think it's there right to back out of a "legally" binding agreement they agreed to because things changed, though it's not their legal right, whether it's moral or not.
KnicksGadfly wrote:Eh, I'd say Harden was the one who got cheated on this time. He made the commitment, Philly and him had an under-the-table agreement, and Philly backed out. And then in New Jersey, he was partnered with an infectious covid loving conspiracy-theorist cuckoo.JustBuzzin wrote:No wonder Harden and KD are still single. These dudes aren't comfortable staying in a committed relationship. They leave for the pretty girl every time.
Whole Truth wrote:If I have this straight.
Harden is upset Morey backed out of a non binding agreement because things changed. Which he has every legal right to do whether it's moral or not. Harden's mistake for not making it legally binding.
but
Players think it's there right to back out of a "legally" binding agreement they agreed to because things changed, though it's not their legal right, whether it's moral or not.
Do I have this straight ?
lol. Forgive me if I don't feel bad for you Harden. Grab a mirror, pretty sure you left the Nets ultimately owing Houston because you changed your mind, though they had the legal right to not let you.
Talk about pussified. The whole point of a championship is to overcome competition, not run from it, lol
HotelVitale wrote:docholliday99 wrote:Morey did f'k him over. Morey asked Harden to take less money last year so they can add Tucker. Harden opted out of his PO and signed a lower than market contract on a 1+PO with the Sixers - Sixers then signed Tucker; in return, Harden was expecting a max this offseason to compensate. .
Said this a few times already but this assumption seems like a huge stretch, doesn't make much logical or strategic sense for Morey to have made some kind of 'agreement' with Harden. And the other explanation--that Harden did this on his own for his own reasons--makes at least as much sense and explains the motives much better.
76thBearCub wrote:clippertown wrote:TheNG wrote:Kind of poetic justice.
The 76ers got Harden undeservingly for a player with almost negative value (Simmons). So now Harden does the same trick but this time the 76ers are on the losing side.
This is exactly right. Morey sold Simmons to Brooklyn knowing full well that his mental and back problems were severe - he sold the Nets a lemon, plain and simple and demanded top dollar. It’s hard to feel sympathy for what appears to be true poetic justice.
Except hes not going to take back a big crappy contract. So it's not much the same.
docholliday99 wrote:HotelVitale wrote:docholliday99 wrote:Morey did f'k him over. Morey asked Harden to take less money last year so they can add Tucker. Harden opted out of his PO and signed a lower than market contract on a 1+PO with the Sixers - Sixers then signed Tucker; in return, Harden was expecting a max this offseason to compensate. .
Said this a few times already but this assumption seems like a huge stretch, doesn't make much logical or strategic sense for Morey to have made some kind of 'agreement' with Harden. And the other explanation--that Harden did this on his own for his own reasons--makes at least as much sense and explains the motives much better.
This is not a huge assumption. Is it logical that a player who deliberately sabotaged himself on Brooklyn to force a trade to Philly, would then deliberately sabotage his financial positioning with Philly? Harden signed a 1+PO with the Nets, if you played poorly, you don't willingly give up 13m on the 2nd year, drop your base year salary, giving up your early bird rights AND any leverage for future contracts. The logical course is you pick-up that PO, keep the early bird rights, and then sign a contract starting around 50 - or negotiate from there. If Harden doesn't do this, Tucker is not brought in. Harden doesn't give up all that leverage and money without some sort of discussion about what's going to happen in the future. This is widely accepted as to what went down. What your saying doesn't make sense.
HardenGoat wrote:docholliday99 wrote:HotelVitale wrote:
Said this a few times already but this assumption seems like a huge stretch, doesn't make much logical or strategic sense for Morey to have made some kind of 'agreement' with Harden. And the other explanation--that Harden did this on his own for his own reasons--makes at least as much sense and explains the motives much better.
This is not a huge assumption. Is it logical that a player who deliberately sabotaged himself on Brooklyn to force a trade to Philly, would then deliberately sabotage his financial positioning with Philly? Harden signed a 1+PO with the Nets, if you played poorly, you don't willingly give up 13m on the 2nd year, drop your base year salary, giving up your early bird rights AND any leverage for future contracts. The logical course is you pick-up that PO, keep the early bird rights, and then sign a contract starting around 50 - or negotiate from there. If Harden doesn't do this, Tucker is not brought in. Harden doesn't give up all that leverage and money without some sort of discussion about what's going to happen in the future. This is widely accepted as to what went down. What your saying doesn't make sense.
He’s also saying they signed trashy vets even though Embiid specifically asked for one. Like that was meaningless at the time in terms of chip aspirations. He has 20:20 hindsight and a crystal ball apparently
TacoLord wrote:Do remember that Morey had an "under the table agreement" with Chris Paul when he opted into his option with the Clippers and used it to be traded to Houston. The next offseason the Rockets and Morey got blasted by everyone for giving a 4 year max to an "aging" CP3 and it was called the worst contract in the NBA at the time. So it's not the first time he's been involved in something like this, and Harden was there with the team when it happened, so there's really no reason for him to think Morey and the 76ers wouldn't do it. Things change of course, and yeah, Harden is being screwed by them.
docholliday99 wrote:HotelVitale wrote:docholliday99 wrote:Morey did f'k him over. Morey asked Harden to take less money last year so they can add Tucker. Harden opted out of his PO and signed a lower than market contract on a 1+PO with the Sixers - Sixers then signed Tucker; in return, Harden was expecting a max this offseason to compensate. .
Said this a few times already but this assumption seems like a huge stretch, doesn't make much logical or strategic sense for Morey to have made some kind of 'agreement' with Harden. And the other explanation--that Harden did this on his own for his own reasons--makes at least as much sense and explains the motives much better.
This is not a huge assumption. Is it logical that a player who deliberately sabotaged himself on Brooklyn to force a trade to Philly, would then deliberately sabotage his financial positioning with Philly? Harden signed a 1+PO with the Nets, if you played poorly, you don't willingly give up 13m on the 2nd year, drop your base year salary, giving up your early bird rights AND any leverage for future contracts. The logical course is you pick-up that PO, keep the early bird rights, and then sign a contract starting around 50 - or negotiate from there. If Harden doesn't do this, Tucker is not brought in. Harden doesn't give up all that leverage and money without some sort of discussion about what's going to happen in the future. This is widely accepted as to what went down. What your saying doesn't make sense.
HardenGoat wrote: He’s also saying they signed trashy vets even though Embiid specifically asked for one. Like that was meaningless at the time in terms of chip aspirations. He has 20:20 hindsight and a crystal ball apparently
HotelVitale wrote:docholliday99 wrote:HotelVitale wrote:
Said this a few times already but this assumption seems like a huge stretch, doesn't make much logical or strategic sense for Morey to have made some kind of 'agreement' with Harden. And the other explanation--that Harden did this on his own for his own reasons--makes at least as much sense and explains the motives much better.
This is not a huge assumption. Is it logical that a player who deliberately sabotaged himself on Brooklyn to force a trade to Philly, would then deliberately sabotage his financial positioning with Philly? Harden signed a 1+PO with the Nets, if you played poorly, you don't willingly give up 13m on the 2nd year, drop your base year salary, giving up your early bird rights AND any leverage for future contracts. The logical course is you pick-up that PO, keep the early bird rights, and then sign a contract starting around 50 - or negotiate from there. If Harden doesn't do this, Tucker is not brought in. Harden doesn't give up all that leverage and money without some sort of discussion about what's going to happen in the future. This is widely accepted as to what went down. What your saying doesn't make sense.
I get that it's widely accepted, but that's just because most players usually take the max amount of money possible. Harden didn't do that in this instance and that is indeed strange. I'm just saying that if you look at the circumstances it doesn't make sense that the Sixers would've offered him an explicit 'secret deal' or some handshake promise to pay him huge down the line.
You cut off my last explanation and maybe it was too long, so here's a more concise one:
a) neither the Sixers nor anyone else was interested in long-term maxing Harden in 2022 (remember he was awful against MIA in the 2nd rd), so why in the world would they promise him they'd do that as a 34 year-old? That would be inexplicable folly
b) the Sixers/Morey had more to lose by Harden taking a one-year paycut than they did to gain--they only gained the right to spend $3m more in MLE money and the right to sign a minimum-level guy in House, and they lost the ability to keep Harden rostered and build around him for 2-3 years (which was their ideal outcome). They would've preferred to lock him up for 3 years and keep things neat
c) it makes sense the Sixers would have said 'we want you here long-term and will work with you on that,' but that's extremely far from 'we will pay you a massive, multi-year max contract for sure'
d) Harden had some other non-financial reasons--1) Embiid was reportedly the one who really wanted Tucker, and Harden could want to do that for/with his guy; 2) he's repeatedly wanted to be credited/acknowledged for taking his pay cut to help the team win, seems motivated to be seen as the good guy there; and 3) same as now, he feels like he's a massively valuable guy and that many teams desperately want and had many options, why not keep things open if the team was giving him that mega-max?
Maybe the most important piece of context here is that we've already seen a lot of evidence that Harden is kind of strange and wishy-washy in his decision-making, and that he's not always clear on his value and leverage. And he didn't have an agent last summer to reign that in.
docholliday99 wrote:HotelVitale wrote:docholliday99 wrote:
This is not a huge assumption. Is it logical that a player who deliberately sabotaged himself on Brooklyn to force a trade to Philly, would then deliberately sabotage his financial positioning with Philly? Harden signed a 1+PO with the Nets, if you played poorly, you don't willingly give up 13m on the 2nd year, drop your base year salary, giving up your early bird rights AND any leverage for future contracts. The logical course is you pick-up that PO, keep the early bird rights, and then sign a contract starting around 50 - or negotiate from there. If Harden doesn't do this, Tucker is not brought in. Harden doesn't give up all that leverage and money without some sort of discussion about what's going to happen in the future. This is widely accepted as to what went down. What your saying doesn't make sense.
I get that it's widely accepted, but that's just because most players usually take the max amount of money possible. Harden didn't do that in this instance and that is indeed strange. I'm just saying that if you look at the circumstances it doesn't make sense that the Sixers would've offered him an explicit 'secret deal' or some handshake promise to pay him huge down the line.
You cut off my last explanation and maybe it was too long, so here's a more concise one:
a) neither the Sixers nor anyone else was interested in long-term maxing Harden in 2022 (remember he was awful against MIA in the 2nd rd), so why in the world would they promise him they'd do that as a 34 year-old? That would be inexplicable folly
b) the Sixers/Morey had more to lose by Harden taking a one-year paycut than they did to gain--they only gained the right to spend $3m more in MLE money and the right to sign a minimum-level guy in House, and they lost the ability to keep Harden rostered and build around him for 2-3 years (which was their ideal outcome). They would've preferred to lock him up for 3 years and keep things neat
c) it makes sense the Sixers would have said 'we want you here long-term and will work with you on that,' but that's extremely far from 'we will pay you a massive, multi-year max contract for sure'
d) Harden had some other non-financial reasons--1) Embiid was reportedly the one who really wanted Tucker, and Harden could want to do that for/with his guy; 2) he's repeatedly wanted to be credited/acknowledged for taking his pay cut to help the team win, seems motivated to be seen as the good guy there; and 3) same as now, he feels like he's a massively valuable guy and that many teams desperately want and had many options, why not keep things open if the team was giving him that mega-max?
Maybe the most important piece of context here is that we've already seen a lot of evidence that Harden is kind of strange and wishy-washy in his decision-making, and that he's not always clear on his value and leverage. And he didn't have an agent last summer to reign that in.
Well, you write your stance more concisely and I'll write simply reiterate my point. It's not just turning down the money - something you acknowledge is strange then disregard - by declining his player option and taking significantly less, he also gave away much of his leverage for future dealings and so has the Sixers. As he reminds everyone, by doing this the Sixers benefit by bringing in Tucker, you think he did this out of the kindness of his heart and not with the intent of recouping? Signing 1+PO had the obvious intent of signing a longer term deal after a year and for a lot more money. It's the last real 5 year contract Harden can sign before the over38 rule kicks in. If that was not the intent, why would the Sixers and Harden put themselves in this position? I find it amusing really, Philly gave up assets for him (more about the 2 frps with one unprotected) and now they're pinned in by their own contract when Harden picked up his player option and demanding a trade to only 1 team - knowing that any team he goes to won't be able to extend him. Now he has no real trade value. I don't see any reasoning as to why Morey and Harden would want to be in this position if the intent wasn't to sign a longer term deal at the max or close to it.
At this point, I wouldn't want Harden to come back, he's shown he'll become disrespectful and rude to this team mates in the media and will play half heartedly on the court. He's shown he won't back down. Maybe Morey thought he would take less and if that's the case, he seriously underestimated Harden. And poster around here b*** about MU lol