Khris Middleton Contract Discussion (and Poll)

[humanrefutation]

If Midds walks for nothing, I think you trade Jrue for the best package of young players possible. Sign and trade Brook. And just surround Giannis with as many young, athletic players as possible and see if Nurse can turn it into a swarming D that gets easy transition points.

I find this kind of thinking to be quite bizarre. If history has shown us anything, it's that you need multiple all-star caliber players to compete for titles in the modern NBA. Surrounding Giannis with a bunch of Pat Connaughtons gets us nowhere. You need star quality talent to win. Hell, we don't win the title without Jrue and Khris making series-defining plays throughout the playoffs.

Nah, the only way you trade guys like Jrue or Brook is if it brings back a star quality talent directly or gives you the assets to go get one from elsewhere.

If Midds walks for nothing, I see no path to being actual title contenders next season.

The Bucks would have some cap space. They'd have the full compliment of salary exceptions. It would be difficult, but a great GM and coach can make that work with Giannis as the centerpiece and Jrue and Brook around him. It would be tough, but this team just finished first in the East without Khris for most of the year.

But more problematically, I'm concerned that the path you're proposing would have Giannis opting out of here in 2025, as it makes them less competitive in the near future. The guy is hungry for more titles. I don't think he's that loyal.

[Debit One]

I’m just not a fan of bad contracts. They never end well.

Here is my list of outcomes, from worst to best.

1. MKE signs Middleton for 4/$160M. I don’t see him aging well and if MKE goes this route they will always have the “if Khris is healthy next year things will be different” argument for keeping him throughout the deal.
2. Middleton opts out and signs elsewhere
3. Middleton goes elsewhere in a S&T
4. Middleton opts in. If Giannis approves, one more run with the current group and then blow it up.

Note: I am open to being convinced that I don’t understand the new CBA well enough, and therefore am under appreciating the ramifications of it.

[paulpressey25]

I haven't seen a good argument for bringing Middleton back, other than, "**** it, we'll figure it out later."

He’s still a really good player?

He showed that he’s still a very good shooter. The problem is the recent injury history and losing a step on the defensive end. That’s why I’d set my offer at 3/$90 or 4/$120 with the last year only partially guaranteed.

He’s headed into the 2020-2023 Kyle Lowry part of his career. You just can’t go 4/$160, especially with a team that will be a lux tax repeater and get pushed into the 2nd apron.

[raferfenix]

I wish the Bucks showed any recent aptitude for identifying and developing young players.

Brogdon was the last one, right? And we bailed. MarJon maybe gets there but not yet. Not unrelated to why Bud got the axe either.

Point being is Horst would need to flex new skills to pull off anything like the Heat have done making something from nothing.

To his credit Horst has found diamond in the rough free agents who flourish here in Lopez, Bobby, and Connaughton.

If we do let Middleton walk we’ll have a huge hole and tons of minutes on a contender to fill somehow. Recouping lost value from losing Khris for nothing would require some ingenuity.

[JayMKE]

Miami and Denver are both 1 game away from the NBA finals so at least this year the narrative that you need multiple Allstars behind your MVP isn't true. Bucks need financial flexibility and assets to be able build another core around Giannis, I don't see the logic in thinking he's going to want to stay in 2 years with our core aging out of contention with no assets or way to improve the team more so than if the Bucks start retooling and building a war chest to bring in a top running mate maybe next year. Basically it comes down to whether or not you think this team as is can win an NBA championship and I'd say the odds are pretty stacked against us especially if they don't hire Nurse.

[sidney lanier]

Watching 33-year-old Jimmy Butler dominate these playoffs, it's hard for me to see 31-year-old Khris Middleton as someone in the twilight of his career, even despite his recent injury history.

While peak NBA age might be 27 or 28, as many sources say, the data that generates that number is skewed by all the flameouts and careers shortened by ineptitude. I think we saw limited Khris because of the injury aftermath in these playoffs. I'm willing to roll the dice on 31-35-year-old Khris with a new deal.

[paulpressey25]

. I'm willing to roll the dice on 31-35-year-old Khris with a new deal.

But what is your number? I think you need to be at 4/$160 to ward off all other suitors.

[randy84]

Watching 33-year-old Jimmy Butler dominate these playoffs, it's hard for me to see 31-year-old Khris Middleton as someone in the twilight of his career, even despite his recent injury history.

While peak NBA age might be 27 or 28, as many sources say, the data that generates that number is skewed by all the flameouts and careers shortened by ineptitude. I think we saw limited Khris because of the injury aftermath in these playoffs. I'm willing to roll the dice on 31-35-year-old Khris with a new deal.

But Jimmy Butler's best skill is availability. Not sure that is something Khris has anymore.

[raferfenix]

But what is your number? I think you need to be at 4/$160 to ward off all other suitors.

The years for Middleton scare me way more than money per year.

Is there a number for 2 years that he’d go for?

[Lippo]

Watching 33-year-old Jimmy Butler dominate these playoffs, it's hard for me to see 31-year-old Khris Middleton as someone in the twilight of his career, even despite his recent injury history.

While peak NBA age might be 27 or 28, as many sources say, the data that generates that number is skewed by all the flameouts and careers shortened by ineptitude. I think we saw limited Khris because of the injury aftermath in these playoffs. I'm willing to roll the dice on 31-35-year-old Khris with a new deal.

But Jimmy Butler's best skill is availability. Not sure that is something Khris has anymore.

Kris also has an awful handle and has TOs that change momentum on a regular basis. Up 12 chance to go up 14 , bad pass goes the other way for and easy and one, we’re up 9 and end up losing. Feels like it happens 3 times every playoffs.

[sidney lanier]

. I'm willing to roll the dice on 31-35-year-old Khris with a new deal.

But what is your number? I think you need to be at 4/$160 to ward off all other suitors.

His current deal is 5/$177. I think 4/$144, or $36M/yr., would be a fair deal. If 4/$160 is the market and he gets an offer for that or more from somebody else, I don't think I would match.

Khris is the 13th-highest-paid player in the NBA right now. As much as I like him, I don't think he belongs in the top ten. If it's north of 40 a year, I think I change my opinion about keeping him and do the Keynesian switcheroo.

[Debit One]

Watching 33-year-old Jimmy Butler dominate these playoffs, it's hard for me to see 31-year-old Khris Middleton as someone in the twilight of his career, even despite his recent injury history.

While peak NBA age might be 27 or 28, as many sources say, the data that generates that number is skewed by all the flameouts and careers shortened by ineptitude. I think we saw limited Khris because of the injury aftermath in these playoffs. I'm willing to roll the dice on 31-35-year-old Khris with a new deal.

What you’ve articulated here is what I see as the crux of the argument.

If Khris can be in relatively good health and not suffer from a decline in athleticism, 4/$160 is merited.

People can and do have good faith differences of opinion as to whether that is a good bet.

[msiris]

Watching 33-year-old Jimmy Butler dominate these playoffs, it's hard for me to see 31-year-old Khris Middleton as someone in the twilight of his career, even despite his recent injury history.

While peak NBA age might be 27 or 28, as many sources say, the data that generates that number is skewed by all the flameouts and careers shortened by ineptitude. I think we saw limited Khris because of the injury aftermath in these playoffs. I'm willing to roll the dice on 31-35-year-old Khris with a new deal.

Comparing Butler to Mids is insane.

[msiris]

Watching 33-year-old Jimmy Butler dominate these playoffs, it's hard for me to see 31-year-old Khris Middleton as someone in the twilight of his career, even despite his recent injury history.

While peak NBA age might be 27 or 28, as many sources say, the data that generates that number is skewed by all the flameouts and careers shortened by ineptitude. I think we saw limited Khris because of the injury aftermath in these playoffs. I'm willing to roll the dice on 31-35-year-old Khris with a new deal.

What you’ve articulated here is what I see as the crux of the argument.

If Khris can be in relatively good health and not suffer from a decline in athleticism, 4/$160 is merited.

People can and do have good faith differences of opinion as to whether that is a good bet.

Mids is not athletic to being with.

[Jamaaliver]

Didn't know where else to post this...
Do these evals feel accurate based on the eye test?

Read on Twitter

[Ruben Quevedo]

Didn't know where else to post this...
Do these evals feel accurate based on the eye test?

Read on Twitter

A+ playmaking is crazy. He’s a solid B at best.

I think his offensive rebounding is slightly better than his defensive rebounding.

Overall offensive impact also a B at best.

[emunney]

Didn't know where else to post this...
Do these evals feel accurate based on the eye test?

Read on Twitter

Contact finisher is not expected but I guess he does get a fair amount of and-1s on jumpers.

[Milbucks96]

If they’re going by position for playmaking, I think A+ is spot on for Khris. For wings, it’s not many guys who make reads and passes like Khris, very underrated part of his game.

Yes I know about his loose handle.