**The Official Karl-Anthony Towns Thread: Part Two**

[thinktank]

This was why I bring it up:

But that's just numbers in a vacuum. Context is important.

If Bam is matching KAT on offense, while still supplying his usual defense, that's worlds apart...

thinktank literally said your No. 2 needs to put up better numbers than that in the playoffs, when the team that ran through the East had a No. 2 option who put up exactly that. There's no more context needed than that. He asked for numbers from a No. 2, I gave numbers from a No. 2.

You get hung up on the most minuscule crap that is not important in the overall conversation.

Why do you think Jimmy choose to run from KAT and run toward Embiid and Bam?

Do you think that he was stupid for doing that?

He’s not stupid. He made a great decision.

[BlacJacMac]

This was why I bring it up:

But that's just numbers in a vacuum. Context is important.

If Bam is matching KAT on offense, while still supplying his usual defense, that's worlds apart...

thinktank literally said your No. 2 needs to put up better numbers than that in the playoffs, when the team that ran through the East had a No. 2 option who put up exactly that. There's no more context needed than that. He asked for numbers from a No. 2, I gave numbers from a No. 2.

He didn't literally say that. You added the "better numbers" part.

"Your #2 guy needs to put up more than 11 and 18 in the playoffs."

That's the actual quote. Now, you can be pedantic and assume that he only means bigger numbers. Or you can read it as "he needs to do more than just put up those stats". In that case strong defense is just as valid of an add-on as a handful more points or rebounds.

[thinktank]

But that's just numbers in a vacuum. Context is important.

If Bam is matching KAT on offense, while still supplying his usual defense, that's worlds apart...

thinktank literally said your No. 2 needs to put up better numbers than that in the playoffs, when the team that ran through the East had a No. 2 option who put up exactly that. There's no more context needed than that. He asked for numbers from a No. 2, I gave numbers from a No. 2.

He didn't literally say that. You added the "numbers" part.

"Your #2 guy needs to put up more than 11 and 18 in the playoffs."

That's the actual quote. Now, you can be pedantic and assume that he only means bigger numbers. Or you can read it as "he needs to do more than just put up those stats". In that case strong defense is just as valid of an add-on as a handful more points or rebounds.

Klomp and shrink cant handle the KAT criticism. They have to nitpick little box score BS because that’s all they got.

[Klomp]

You get hung up on the most minuscule crap that is not important in the overall conversation.

Why do you think Jimmy choose to run from KAT and run toward Embiid and Bam?

Do you think that he was stupid for doing that?

He’s not stupid. He made a great decision.

And I get hung up on miniscule crap?!

How many NBA titles has he won after making those decisions again?

[thinktank]

You get hung up on the most minuscule crap that is not important in the overall conversation.

Why do you think Jimmy choose to run from KAT and run toward Embiid and Bam?

Do you think that he was stupid for doing that?

He’s not stupid. He made a great decision.

And I get hung up on miniscule crap?!

How many NBA titles has he won after making those decisions again?

LOL. You are desperate. Jimmy choose Bam over KAT and I would too if I were him. Not winning a chip doesn’t change that fact.

[KGdaBom]

You get hung up on the most minuscule crap that is not important in the overall conversation.

Why do you think Jimmy choose to run from KAT and run toward Embiid and Bam?

Do you think that he was stupid for doing that?

He’s not stupid. He made a great decision.

And I get hung up on miniscule crap?!

How many NBA titles has he won after making those decisions again?

I invite you to join me in the foeing of Thinktank. It makes for a much more pleasant RealGM experience.

[thinktank]

You get hung up on the most minuscule crap that is not important in the overall conversation.

Why do you think Jimmy choose to run from KAT and run toward Embiid and Bam?

Do you think that he was stupid for doing that?

He’s not stupid. He made a great decision.

And I get hung up on miniscule crap?!

How many NBA titles has he won after making those decisions again?

I invite you to join me in the foeing of Thinktank. It makes for a much more pleasant RealGM experience.

If he puts me on ignore then he can’t distract from my original OPINION that KAT hasn’t been a positive player in the playoffs with a wild goose chase into box score stats.

Bottom line:

KAT needs to do more in the playoffs or his contract will be an albatross.

[Calinks]

Locking the Thread up for a while. Again, posters are taking some of these discussions too personally. It's OK to feel one way or another about a player but the line is being crossed at name-calling, and poster-instigating. Going to shut this thread down for a while and hope we can see more mature post when it's revived. The alternative is probably a lot of deleting posts and suspensions and nobody wants that.

[Klomp]

Let's see if we can get this going again....

We can say that Towns is more a slasher at PF, that's correct, but his turnovers numbers in playoffs are extremely concerning

Read on Twitter

One year ago Towns was discussed as a big of the same tier as Jokic and Embiid, but now he is not even close. This is MVP territory right now. Edwards, has a right expectations: can Towns return at MVP level?

Playmaking is an area we were seeing growth in prior to the injury. He was averaging over 5 assists per game to just 3 turnovers per game. That's solid.

The assists didn't really come back after the injury, probably because they were just trying to blend him into the offense at that point. Still, he finished the season with a career high in assists and his lowest turnover average since pre-Butler. That's growth.

[shrink]

I may have posted this elsewhere, but in the last two things I’ve heard from Ant and crew, both expressed support for KAT.

In Ant’s interview, when he was asked what we want to see next year, instead of talking about personal accomplishments, he said he wants KAT in the national MVP conversation (and Rudy as DPOY). Then, when Kyle Theige was recognized for his podcasts with Mackey, Ant’s crew said they loved him, but that he was too harsh .. on Towns.

In general, I think Edwards has always been a supportive of all his teammates. But to be honest, I thought McDaniels and Naz were a step above that, and the front office wouldn’t want to risk alienating Ant by trading Naz, so he was off limits. Now I’m not so sure. We all heard how Ant went and hung out with Towns during the playoffs. Maybe there is a stronger connection between Ant and KAT than I first believed.

[thinktank]

Is it growth if he’s back to pre-Butler assist rate?

Let’s see some defensive growth. He puts up good offensive efficiency already.

[Klomp]

Is it growth if he’s back to pre-Butler assist rate?

Let’s see some defensive growth. He puts up good offensive efficiency already.

I said turnover average before the injury was lowest since before Butler. It's marginal at best, but assists are up too which widens the gap even more when you're comparing assists to turnovers.

Assist-to-turnover rate
2015-16: 0.88
2016-17: 1.04
2017-18: 1.25
2018-19: 1.08
2019-20: 1.39
2020-21: 1.41
2021-22: 1.19
2022-23: 1.71 (pre-injury)

[thinktank]

Is it growth if he’s back to pre-Butler assist rate?

Let’s see some defensive growth. He puts up good offensive efficiency already.

I said turnover average before the injury was lowest since before Butler. It's marginal at best, but assists are up too which widens the gap even more when you're comparing assists to turnovers.

Assist-to-turnover rate
2015-16: 0.88
2016-17: 1.04
2017-18: 1.25
2018-19: 1.08
2019-20: 1.39
2020-21: 1.41
2021-22: 1.19
2022-23: 1.71 (pre-injury)

I see.

Now let’s see some marked defense improvement.

[Klomp]

I may have posted this elsewhere, but in the last two things I’ve heard from Ant and crew, both expressed support for KAT.

In Ant’s interview, when he was asked what we want to see next year, instead of talking about personal accomplishments, he said he wants KAT in the national MVP conversation (and Rudy as DPOY). Then, when Kyle Theige was recognized for his podcasts with Mackey, Ant’s crew said they loved him, but that he was too harsh .. on Towns.

In general, I think Edwards has always been a supportive of all his teammates. But to be honest, I thought McDaniels and Naz were a step above that, and the front office wouldn’t want to risk alienating Ant by trading Naz, so he was off limits. Now I’m not so sure. We all heard how Ant went and hung out with Towns during the playoffs. Maybe there is a stronger connection between ant and KAT than I first believed.

Ant has mentioned that a few different times this offseason

[Calinks]

It would be great if KAT makes a defensive jump but I don't think that's even a must. If he get to a more optimal offensive level of output and cleans up the on court histrionics, I think that is a big enough improvement to drastically improve his on-the-floor value. If he played the same defense but was scoring nearly 30 a game against Denver and not fouling as much, the whole series would have been different.

I think its a lot more realistic for him to be a better scorer and cut down on his mental issues while playing than it is to expect him to turn into a much better defender. He has already shown an incredible aptitude for offense. He has never shown a particular great one for defense. He can be so-so on defense or even mediocre and the team can still get by as long as they are built properly. He can't be lacking in the other areas where he has been traditionally strong though.

[thinktank]

It would be great if KAT makes a defensive jump but I don't think that's even a must. If he get to a more optimal offensive level of output and cleans up the on court histrionics, I think that is a big enough improvement to drastically improve his on-the-floor value. If he played the same defense but was scoring nearly 30 a game against Denver and not fouling as much, the whole series would have been different.

I think its a lot more realistic for him to be a better scorer and cut down on his mental issues while playing than it is to expect him to turn into a much better defender. He has already shown an incredible aptitude for offense. He has never shown a particular great one for defense. He can be so-so on defense or even mediocre and the team can still get by as long as they are built properly. He can't be lacking in the other areas where he has been traditionally strong though.

I hear you. You’re saying output is output. As long as it goes up, I don’t care what end it’s on.

But my opinion is that most championship teams have front courts that play pretty great defense.

Jokic (VERY underrated defender) / Gordon
Looney (not great, but at least he’s a positive) / Green
Lopez / Giannis
Davis / Howard / McGee / Lebron

KAT would be the worst defender of this front court group of champions.

[Calinks]

It would be great if KAT makes a defensive jump but I don't think that's even a must. If he get to a more optimal offensive level of output and cleans up the on court histrionics, I think that is a big enough improvement to drastically improve his on-the-floor value. If he played the same defense but was scoring nearly 30 a game against Denver and not fouling as much, the whole series would have been different.

I think its a lot more realistic for him to be a better scorer and cut down on his mental issues while playing than it is to expect him to turn into a much better defender. He has already shown an incredible aptitude for offense. He has never shown a particular great one for defense. He can be so-so on defense or even mediocre and the team can still get by as long as they are built properly. He can't be lacking in the other areas where he has been traditionally strong though.

I hear you. You’re saying output is output. As long as it goes up, I don’t care what end it’s on.

But my opinion is that most championship teams have front courts that play pretty great defense.

Jokic (VERY underrated defender) / Gordon
Looney (not great, but at least he’s a positive) / Green
Lopez / Giannis
Davis / Howard / McGee

KAT would be the worst defender of this group.

Its a fair concern to be worried about the defense, especially at PF. I think he is easier to exploit there than he was at center.

I think it can still improve to be serviceable. He had some solid moments against Jokic and last season he had some good moments but we were playing a different style. That said, I think its less of a concern than the offense and other issues he has shown as of late. Those should be easier to fix and they are concerning because you wouldn't really think they would be problems seeing some of his past non-playoff play. If we can get those cleaned up, then I'd worry more about the defensive stuff. I think trying to capitalize on his strengths and make them fit with this current team should take priority over trying to shore up his long-time deficiencies.

[thinktank]

It would be great if KAT makes a defensive jump but I don't think that's even a must. If he get to a more optimal offensive level of output and cleans up the on court histrionics, I think that is a big enough improvement to drastically improve his on-the-floor value. If he played the same defense but was scoring nearly 30 a game against Denver and not fouling as much, the whole series would have been different.

I think its a lot more realistic for him to be a better scorer and cut down on his mental issues while playing than it is to expect him to turn into a much better defender. He has already shown an incredible aptitude for offense. He has never shown a particular great one for defense. He can be so-so on defense or even mediocre and the team can still get by as long as they are built properly. He can't be lacking in the other areas where he has been traditionally strong though.

I hear you. You’re saying output is output. As long as it goes up, I don’t care what end it’s on.

But my opinion is that most championship teams have front courts that play pretty great defense.

Jokic (VERY underrated defender) / Gordon
Looney (not great, but at least he’s a positive) / Green
Lopez / Giannis
Davis / Howard / McGee

KAT would be the worst defender of this group.

Its a fair concern to be worried about the defense, especially at PF. I think he is easier to exploit there than he was at center.

I think it can still improve to be serviceable. He had some solid moments against Jokic and last season he had some good moments but we were playing a different style. That said, I think its less of a concern than the offense and other issues he has shown as of late. Those should be easier to fix and they are concerning because you wouldn't really think they would be problems seeing some of his past non-playoff play. If we can get those cleaned up, then I'd worry more about the defensive stuff. I think trying to capitalize on his strengths and make them fit with this current team should take priority over trying to shore up his long-time deficiencies.

I guess I’m not concerned with KAT on O. He gets an A- at worst, from me. I’d like to see him pass sooner out of the doubles and that’s about it.

[Klomp]

I guess I’m not concerned with KAT on O. He gets an A- at worst, from me. I’d like to see him pass sooner out of the doubles and that’s about it.

Well looking at last year alone, it was definitely a down season for him offensively. I know it's not concerning in general for the position, but for Towns shooting 36% on 3-pointers only makes his defensive questions stand out even more.

[thinktank]

I guess I’m not concerned with KAT on O. He gets an A- at worst, from me. I’d like to see him pass sooner out of the doubles and that’s about it.

Well looking at last year alone, it was definitely a down season for him offensively. I know it's not concerning in general for the position, but for Towns shooting 36% on 3-pointers only makes his defensive questions stand out even more.

I assume it was a blip from being sick and injured.