Trade/Free Agency Thread 2023-24, part 10 and Counting . . .

[Hal14]

The next move will probably be Champagnie. If he's still on the roster on august 1, $500K towards his contract becomes guaranteed.

I figure he'll get waived on July 31. Unless Brad is able to get something for him in a trade before then.

[Bill Lumbergh]

I still don't think Brogdon makes it to the start of the 2023/2024 season.

Can you refresh my mind, I don't remember what you think will happen with him (i.e. what's the return?)

I’m not the GM. I don’t know. Brogdon value will never be greater than right now (minus the injury concern).

Celtics could get a really good player, draft pick and additional apron space to use the MLE by moving Brogdon. I personally think it’s inevitable

Alright, I thought you had something more specific in mind.

[Dogen]

White, Brown, Tatum, RW3, Porzingis
Brogdon, Banton, Hauser, Horford (---)
Pritchard, Walsh, Brissette, (---), (---)
two-way
Davison, Scrubb
That's 12 guaranteed spots and 2 two-way spots.

13th roster spot:
Kornet, not sure if his contract guaranteed yet, although I expect it will be.

We still have $3,388,443 left under the 2nd apron, and if we can fill the last two spots and stay under that would be ideal. That is $1,694,221 per roster spot. Minimum salary for a player with 0 years of service (never been signed to a regular NBA contract) is $1,119,563, so it is possible. A player with 1 year of service jumps to a minimum of $1,801,769. A player with 2 years of service jumps to a minimum of $2,019,706. So, we could sign a player with 2 years of service and a player with 0 years of service and still be under the 2nd apron. Or we could just sign 1 minimum player and leave the 15th slot open. Just signing 1 player means we could sign any player we wanted to a minimum and still be under the 2nd apron because the minimum salary for a 10 year + player is $3,196,448, which basically means any player in the league that will except the minimum from us is ok, just no 15th roster spot player.

Options for the 14th roster spot:
Champagnie is not guaranteed yet. I think his play in training camp will decide if he is back or not. I'm leaning not. There are a few FA wings or point guards better than he is still out there that will have to take a minimum deal somewhere, why not chase a ring with us at the same time. Danny Green, Romeo Langford, Javonte Green, Justice Winslow, Austin Rivers not to mention someone we could bet by trading a 2nd round pick for.

Options for the 15th roster spot depending on what we do with the 14th spot:
I wouldn't mind if Azubuike gets the 15th roster spot, because he would be on a minimum deal and can't be on another two-way spot. We need a brute to throw around at the bigger centers of the league. That being said I still think we could bring back Kabengele on a minimum one-year deal as a project for the 14th spot. Or, if we can resign Blake, I'm good to bring him back.

With the Jaylen signing done, there is more clarity about what to do with the final spots.

I agree with those choices. Seems like Javonte being out there and available for vet minimum would be a nice move to get a valuable vet, energy guy off the bench. Not a great shooter but he's been with the team before so would be a nice story and good chemistry move.

And Azubuike, he was... interesting in the summer league. Seemed a bit out of sync with the offense, but when he got close to the basket he knew what to do with authority. He doesn't seem like the Brad type of big, but this team has enough finesse bigs. It would be good to have at least one long side of beefcake out there. Using that wingspan and body to sets some picks, get a few easy buckets at the rim, and put some muscle and variety on Embiid and some of the bigger opponents in the conference.

One thing about signing a wing and a center is that the PG situation is still potentially weak off the bench. This is Pritchard's year to shine. If Joe will give him some regular season minutes the team will learn if he's worth keeping, or move at the deadline. Has he improved? I'd like to find out. His shooting and ball handling always been there, just needs to refine his defense and run the offense better -- no small task but he's had a few years with the team and might really shine with a regular dose of court time.

Timelord
Porzingis
Tatum
Brown
White

Kornet/ Azuibuke
Horford/ Brissett
Hauser/ Walsh
Brogdon/ Javonte
Pritchard/ Banton

That bench makes for all sorts of options.

[Curmudgeon]

I don't think Brogdon will be moved. The Clippers destroyed his trade value.

[Hal14]

I still don't think Brogdon makes it to the start of the 2023/2024 season.

Can you refresh my mind, I don't remember what you think will happen with him (i.e. what's the return?)

I’m not the GM. I don’t know. Brogdon value will never be greater than right now (minus the injury concern).

Celtics could get a really good player, draft pick and additional apron space to use the MLE by moving Brogdon. I personally think it’s inevitable

You think it's inevitable. Yet you can't tell us a few names (or even 1 name) of a "really good player" we could realistically acquire in a deal by moving Brogdon..keep in mind, that player has to play for a team that would actually want Brogdon. And they need to enough cap space to trade for Brogdon (basically no teams in the league have cap space right now) since you're saying that this deal where we trade Brogdon will result in all of this additional apron space to then use the MLE. Which means we're trading Brogdon for a player who makes under $15 mil a year. What team can actually make that type of trade for Brogdon? OKC? They have a million guards - no way they would want Brogdon. I don't even know who else has that kind of cap space.

It doesn't seem like such a deal is realistic.

Not to mention, pretty much any free agent who could have gotten the MLE has already signed with a different team. Who are you giving the TPMLE do, Wood? Oubre? Those aren't winning players. Giving pretty much anyone else that kind of money would probably be an overpay.

[Triple7]

Just get an additional big and we’re done.
We have enough scoring to move around. Tatum, brown, porzingis, white, brogdon and pritchard. Those 6 guys can create offense on their own. You can always have 3 scoring guys inside all the time. Then we have horf, Rob, hauser and those young guys. What we lack is an extra big. Kornet won’t cut it.

[Riverwalk2021]

Trade PP. The guy was openly complaining during the season when we are trying to win a championship. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[steefP2]

Can you refresh my mind, I don't remember what you think will happen with him (i.e. what's the return?)

I’m not the GM. I don’t know. Brogdon value will never be greater than right now (minus the injury concern).

Celtics could get a really good player, draft pick and additional apron space to use the MLE by moving Brogdon. I personally think it’s inevitable

You think it's inevitable. Yet you can't tell us a few names (or even 1 name) of a "really good player" we. could realistically acquire in a deal by moving Brogdon..keep in mind, that player has to play for a team that would actually want Brogdon. And they need to enough cap space to trade for Brogdon (basically no teams in the league have cap space right now) since you're saying that this deal where we trade Brogdon will result in all of this additional apron space to then use the MLE. Which means we're trading Brogdon for a player who makes under $15 mil a year. What team can actually make that type of trade for Brogdon? OKC? They have a million guards - no way they would want Brogdon. I don't even know who else has that kind of cap space.

It doesn't seem like such a deal is realistic.

Not to mention, pretty much any free agent who could have gotten the MLE has already signed with a different team. Who are you giving the TPMLE do, Wood? Oubre? Those aren't winning players. Giving pretty much anyone else that kind of money would probably be an overpay.

You don’t need cap space. Even trading brogdon for 2 player making a combined 20 mil, which is legal, makes enough room to use the tax payer mle.

[steefP2]

Not sure if this is true. And maybe Brogdon doesn't finish his contract in Boston.

Read on Twitter

That's what the two thousand second round picks are for lol.

It’s not necessarily true. You can have our current top 8 and do the rest on minimums and second rounders and be under BUT if we keep Pritchard or sign any of our first rounders; we’d be over if we don’t move brogdon.

[steefP2]

Don't want to ruin anyone's Parade... But don't you think the Jaylen brown deal destroys The current Celtic team for a couple of years?... What the hell happened to the front office?

No it doesn’t. It only becomes problematic when Tatum extension hits in 2 years. So it’s a 2 year window atm. I’m not gonna pretend like I can predict what happens then, nba is too volatile.

[steefP2]

Heard B Robb on the SportsHub and he said...
It will be quiet for a bit, but he expects Stevens to use Draft Picks to acquire another rotational player
sometime this season, anywhere from training camp to the Trade Deadline. But you can't hold on to these Picks for future years,
because the new CBA hamstrings you from replacing quality personnel.

That’s a great point. 2nd apron really restricts trades. This is the year to add players and extend players

Again relying on Spotrac, but, they have updated with Jaylen's contract and have us over by just 1,183,409 currently and they seem ti be including Walsh's contract in THAT number....

And spotrac is doing max cap raises for their Jaylen estimate but isn’t applying max raises for the 2nd apron so there’s a discrepancy there. But anyway we can get under the second apron np next year; just can’t sign first rounders or keep PP if keeping brogdon.

[steefP2]

Don't want to ruin anyone's Parade... But don't you think the Jaylen brown deal destroys The current Celtic team for a couple of years?... What the hell happened to the front office?

It’s **** but I don’t know if any GM would have had the leverage to pay him less. We’ll have to see what the incentives are, “up to 304” leaves a ton of wiggle room. Hopefully fifth year and kicker brought down his ask for guaranteed salary.

“Up to 304” could simply mean the cap bump is anywhere between 5% to 10%. It’s 304M if cap jump is 10%. I think they’re giving him the full supermax.

It’s not allowed to put incentives on a supermax contract. The money is purely cap related

[KamikazeK]

Trade PP. The guy was openly complaining during the season when we are trying to win a championship. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

He wasn't even getting to play. I dunno, I wouldn't hold it against a young player with skills who wants to get playing time. Pritchard was good for us the year we went to the Finals, so I think we keep him and give him some minutes.

[zoyathedestroya]

Read on Twitter

[snowman]

That’s a great point. 2nd apron really restricts trades. This is the year to add players and extend players

Again relying on Spotrac, but, they have updated with Jaylen's contract and have us over by just 1,183,409 currently and they seem ti be including Walsh's contract in THAT number....

And spotrac is doing max cap raises for their Jaylen estimate but isn’t applying max raises for the 2nd apron so there’s a discrepancy there. But anyway we can get under the second apron np next year; just can’t sign first rounders or keep PP if keeping brogdon.

These are the deadlines coming up for current contracts to be guaranteed. Champagnie has a guarantee 50,000 coming up on 8/1. Not sure if he will be kept past that date or not. He might be kept until end of training camp, unless we don't have anyone better on our radar to replace him. I expect Kornet and Walsh (no doubt) and Banton (pretty sure) to be kept all season. I don't think Champagnie will make it to opening night. Too many better players out there looking like they will have to take a minimum deal this season.

Deadlines
8/01/2023 Justin Champagnie 2023-24 Guaranteed $50,000
10/16/2023 Jordan Walsh 2025-26 Guaranteed — Opening Night - TBD $2,221,677
10/16/2023 Dalano Banton 2023-24 Guaranteed — Opening Night.- TBD $1,009,853
10/16/2023 Justin Champagnie 2023-24 Guaranteed — Opening Night TBD $350,000
1/10/2024 Luke Kornet 2023-24 Guaranteed $2,413,304
1/10/2024 Justin Champagnie 2023-24 Guaranteed $1,927,896
1/10/2024 Dalano Banton 2023-24 Guaranteed $2,019,706

[bigfoot_cryptozoology]

Read on Twitter

[Hal14]

Just get an additional big and we’re done.
We have enough scoring to move around. Tatum, brown, porzingis, white, brogdon and pritchard. Those 6 guys can create offense on their own. You can always have 3 scoring guys inside all the time. Then we have horf, Rob, hauser and those young guys. What we lack is an extra big. Kornet won’t cut it.

Kornet already did cut it last season. He was our 3rd big last season and we had 2nd best record in the league, #1 in net rating. Kornet was 8th on the team in BPM, ahead of Smart and Grant.

Now with the addition of Porzingis, we only need him to be the 4th big.

Kornet is not a perfect player by any means. But at this point, he knows our systems inside and out. He's 7'2", is a good passer, plays very unselfish basketball on offense, plays hard, works hard, doesn't complain about sporadic playing time, is a great locker room/team chemistry guy, keeps everyone loose with his goofy sense of humor. Plays high IQ, fundamentally sound basketball, sets screens, is a pretty good shot blocker (had a blocks % of 4.9, which was tied for 11th in the NBA last season, a hair below Rob who was 5.0), can catch lobs, etc.

[bigfoot_cryptozoology]

Read on Twitter

[Larry_Russell]

I will preface this by stating I want us to be a big team.

People keep clamouring for another big. Dont think its going to happen at all.

Reason 1)
Brad said he would like to add another guard and a 4/3 type of player (not a bigman)
Reason 2)
Joe wants to shoot 3s, a massive amount of 3s, like over 50% of the possessions 3 pointers.
Reason 3)
Kristaps played 74% of his minutes at Center last year.
Reason 4)
Brad intended on trading Brogdon and keeping smart (smart would have been starting PG)

I think at least 50% of Kristaps minutes will be at Center and team will be small.

PG: Brogdon/Pritchard/Banton
SG: White/...../Walsh
SF: Brown/Hauser/.....
PF: Tatum/Horford/Brissett
C: Kristaps/Timelord/Kornet



And the rest of the time will be playing big
pg: White/Pritchard/Banton
sg: Brown/Brogdon/.....
SF: Tatum/Hauser/Walsh
PF: Kristaps/Horford/Brissett
C: TImelord/......./Kornet

[snowman]

Just get an additional big and we’re done.
We have enough scoring to move around. Tatum, brown, porzingis, white, brogdon and pritchard. Those 6 guys can create offense on their own. You can always have 3 scoring guys inside all the time. Then we have horf, Rob, hauser and those young guys. What we lack is an extra big. Kornet won’t cut it.

Kornet already did cut it last season. He was our 3rd big last season and we had 2nd best record in the league, #1 in net rating. Kornet was 8th on the team in BPM, ahead of Smart and Grant.

Now with the addition of Porzingis, we only need him to be the 4th big.

Kornet is not a perfect player by any means. But at this point, he knows our systems inside and out. He's 7'2", is a good passer, plays very unselfish basketball on offense, plays hard, works hard, doesn't complain about sporadic playing time, is a great locker room/team chemistry guy, keeps everyone loose with his goofy sense of humor. Plays high IQ, fundamentally sound basketball, sets screens, is a pretty good shot blocker, can catch lobs, etc.

I have no problem with Kornet being our 4th big. My hope is he will work with Porzingis (both being similar size) on spacing, three-point shooting (Kornet was a decent three-point shooter in college (32% on 3.5 attempts) and his first two years with NY (35 and 36%) in the NBA) and help get in the correct position to rebound and block shots. (no more of this jumping to block the view of the rim) I just think we need more injury and rest backup besides Kornet by getting a 5th big. That could also mean a big as the last 2-way for that matter. Horford will not play in back to backs, and I'm sure there will be games that Porzingis and RW3 will take off for rest.