Trade/Free Agency Thread 2023-24, part 10 and Counting . . .

[snowman]

I will preface this by stating I want us to be a big team.

People keep clamouring for another big. Dont think its going to happen at all.

Reason 1)
Brad said he would like to add another guard and a 4/3 type of player (not a bigman)
Reason 2)
Joe wants to shoot 3s, a massive amount of 3s, like over 50% of the possessions 3 pointers.
Reason 3)
Kristaps played 74% of his minutes at Center last year.
Reason 4)
Brad intended on trading Brogdon and keeping smart (smart would have been starting PG)

I think at least 50% of Kristaps minutes will be at Center and team will be small.

PG: Brogdon/Pritchard/Banton
SG: White/...../Walsh
SF: Brown/Hauser/.....
PF: Tatum/Horford/Brissett
C: Kristaps/Timelord/Kornet

I think just the opposite as far as how we will play. Brad is going away from smaller players and signing players of size. I think we will go back to a 2 big lineup, with, as you correctly said, Porzingis at center and Rob as power forward. White will be starting point guard, and the entire starting unit except Rob will be capable of hitting threes. Brogdon, Hauser and Horford will run with Walsh and Brissette as the 2nd team. Add Pritchard to that and you still have plenty of three-point shooting but besides Pritchard at 6'2, and Brogdon at 6'5 and White at 6'4, everyone else is 6'7 or taller. White and Brogdon are considered big for point guards anyway. If I were Pritchard and JD, I would be getting a complex looking at the direction the team is going with all that size and being the smallest guys on the team. Maybe we could resign Blake to play behind Horford and see what shakes out during training camp.

PG: White, Brogdon, Pritchard
SG: Brown, Banton, Walsh
SF: Tatum, Hauser, Brissette
PF: RW3, Horford, (Griffin)
C: Porzingis, Kornet, ....
2-way: Davison, Scrubb, ....



And the rest of the time will be playing big
pg: White/Pritchard/Banton
sg: Brown/Brogdon/.....
SF: Tatum/Hauser/Walsh
PF: Kristaps/Horford/Brissett
C: TImelord/......./Kornet

[Celts17Pride]

Don't want to ruin anyone's Parade... But don't you think the Jaylen brown deal destroys The current Celtic team for a couple of years?... What the hell happened to the front office?

No it doesn’t. It only becomes problematic when Tatum extension hits in 2 years. So it’s a 2 year window atm. I’m not gonna pretend like I can predict what happens then, nba is too volatile.

I agree 100%. Celtics have a 2 year window then they will reevaluate. In the meantime because the Celtics most likely will be a 2nd apron team next year and the rules for trading players gets much harder, I expect Stevens to be pretty busy between now and the mid season trade deadline setting up for this result. Could see more trades and players extended in my opinion.

[zoyathedestroya]

Read on Twitter

I don’t mind it. Waive Champagnie, bring Blake back. Not every contribution has to be oncourt for these end-of-bench vets. Whatever he brings on the floor is just a bonus.

[GoCeltics123]

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I don’t mind it. Waive Champagnie, bring Blake back. Not every contribution has to be oncourt for these end-of-bench vets. Whatever he brings on the floor is just a bonus.

We need wing depth a lot more, but I do like Blake a lot. Idk, wouldn't love having a 4th center though

[zoyathedestroya]

Read on Twitter

I don’t mind it. Waive Champagnie, bring Blake back. Not every contribution has to be oncourt for these end-of-bench vets. Whatever he brings on the floor is just a bonus.

We need wing depth a lot more, but I do like Blake a lot. Idk, wouldn't love having a 4th center though

If we’re not making any more trades, backup wing and backup big are the holes to fill. We have 14 guys so far, two on non/partial guarantees.

If they plan to load manage all three of our bigs or god forbid, any of them get sidelined for any amount of time, we need a non-Kornet big to fill in some nights. End of the year, we had both Muscala and Griffin apart from Kornet and Grant (essentially replaced by KP).

[Tyakack]

I still don't think Brogdon makes it to the start of the 2023/2024 season.

Can you refresh my mind, I don't remember what you think will happen with him (i.e. what's the return?)

I’m not the GM. I don’t know. Brogdon value will never be greater than right now (minus the injury concern).

Celtics could get a really good player, draft pick and additional apron space to use the MLE by moving Brogdon. I personally think it’s inevitable

I doubt we get anyone better than Brogs in a trade. His value isn't high right now. I'd rather just keep him. He was great for us before the injury.

[Celts17Pride]

Celtics might have to wait until mid September to gear up trade discussions again because of trade restrictions that other teams have with players.

For example: Cedi Osman (just an example!) can't be traded with other players before Sept 6th. A lot of teams have players like this that expire in mid September.

August could be a pretty slow month except for what Zoya said, camp invitees and a two way player.

[Celts17Pride]

Can you refresh my mind, I don't remember what you think will happen with him (i.e. what's the return?)

I’m not the GM. I don’t know. Brogdon value will never be greater than right now (minus the injury concern).

Celtics could get a really good player, draft pick and additional apron space to use the MLE by moving Brogdon. I personally think it’s inevitable

I doubt we get anyone better than Brogs in a trade. His value isn't high right now. I'd rather just keep him. He was great for us before the injury.

The injury is what is probably keeping him on the Celtics right now. I personally think there is no chance Brogdon survives the mid season trade deadline if not sooner.

[CelticsPride18]

Read on Twitter

I don’t mind it. Waive Champagnie, bring Blake back. Not every contribution has to be oncourt for these end-of-bench vets. Whatever he brings on the floor is just a bonus.

We need wing depth a lot more, but I do like Blake a lot. Idk, wouldn't love having a 4th center though

If we’re not making any more trades, backup wing and backup big are the holes to fill. We have 14 guys so far, two on non/partial guarantees.

If they plan to load manage all three of our bigs or god forbid, any of them get sidelined for any amount of time, we need a non-Kornet big to fill in some nights. End of the year, we had both Muscala and Griffin apart from Kornet and Grant (essentially replaced by KP).

Blake was a great locker room presence and surprisingly useful on the court.

[Hal14]

Read on Twitter

I don’t mind it. Waive Champagnie, bring Blake back. Not every contribution has to be oncourt for these end-of-bench vets. Whatever he brings on the floor is just a bonus.

We need wing depth a lot more, but I do like Blake a lot. Idk, wouldn't love having a 4th center though

If we’re not making any more trades, backup wing and backup big are the holes to fill. We have 14 guys so far, two on non/partial guarantees.

If they plan to load manage all three of our bigs or god forbid, any of them get sidelined for any amount of time, we need a non-Kornet big to fill in some nights. End of the year, we had both Muscala and Griffin apart from Kornet and Grant (essentially replaced by KP).

Here's the way I look at it. How many guys do we have at each position who *can* play that position? It doesn't necessarily have to be their best position, but it's a position they *can* play and either have been or probably will be decent playing that position for us...also, this isn't ranking each guy within each position - it's simply to give an idea of how many guys can play each position - that's all.

1 - white, brogdon, pritchard, banton (maybe Tatum who often brings the ball up the floor...and Pritchard is best at the 2 on offense but is more of a 1 on defense)
2 - white, brogdon, pritchard, banton, Tatum, Brown (maybe Walsh)
3 - Tatum, Brown, Walsh, Hauser, Brissett (maybe Banton)
4 - tatum, walsh, hauser, brissett, horford, porzingis (maybe Brown)
5 - horford, porzingis, rob, kornet

Looking at this, the positions we're the thinnest at is the 5. I think we should be ok just signing a 5 (or a 4/5 type of guy) to the last 2-way spot. But I wouldn't hate it if we signed that type of guy to a standard roster spot (probably someone like Blake or JaMychal Green)

Perhaps we sign another PG or combo-guard type of guy, so we have another guy who can run the point on offense (since Pritchard is better at the 2 on offense, we probably want to limit how much tatum and brown are bringing the ball up, Brogdon could get hurt, white has never really been a full-time starting PG for a good team and Banton is pretty unproven. It's really slim pickings for PG's in free agency. Maybe you grab someone like John Wall, Kendrick Nunn or Ish Smith.

Lastly, you might want to grab a wing. Perhaps you look at our team and say that we have a great top 7 guys but ask who the 8th guy in that playoff rotation is. You've got Brogdon off the bench for a combo-guard, you've got Rob or Al (whoever doesn't start) for a big off the bench so ideally that other guy off the bench in the playoff rotation is a wing. As of now it's Hauser but he played very little in the playoffs. So perhaps you snag a wing with more playoff experience - perhaps someone like Danny Green, Will Barton or Austin Rivers.

[Edug27]

Can you refresh my mind, I don't remember what you think will happen with him (i.e. what's the return?)

I’m not the GM. I don’t know. Brogdon value will never be greater than right now (minus the injury concern).

Celtics could get a really good player, draft pick and additional apron space to use the MLE by moving Brogdon. I personally think it’s inevitable

I doubt we get anyone better than Brogs in a trade. His value isn't high right now. I'd rather just keep him. He was great for us before the injury.

Right. He's not going anywhere.

[ddb]

bring back Blake. Sign Austin. Be done. Reevaluate the roster and possible trades in-season.

White/JB/JT/Kristaps/Timelord
Brogdon/Al
Pritchard/Hauser/Brissett/Walsh
Banton/Rivers/Blake/Kornet

Davidson/Scrubb on 2-ways

[Triple7]

Just get an additional big and we’re done.
We have enough scoring to move around. Tatum, brown, porzingis, white, brogdon and pritchard. Those 6 guys can create offense on their own. You can always have 3 scoring guys inside all the time. Then we have horf, Rob, hauser and those young guys. What we lack is an extra big. Kornet won’t cut it.

Kornet already did cut it last season. He was our 3rd big last season and we had 2nd best record in the league, #1 in net rating. Kornet was 8th on the team in BPM, ahead of Smart and Grant.

Now with the addition of Porzingis, we only need him to be the 4th big.

Kornet is not a perfect player by any means. But at this point, he knows our systems inside and out. He's 7'2", is a good passer, plays very unselfish basketball on offense, plays hard, works hard, doesn't complain about sporadic playing time, is a great locker room/team chemistry guy, keeps everyone loose with his goofy sense of humor. Plays high IQ, fundamentally sound basketball, sets screens, is a pretty good shot blocker (had a blocks % of 4.9, which was tied for 11th in the NBA last season, a hair below Rob who was 5.0), can catch lobs, etc.

Nah he’s too **** soft. As a 4th big with very limited mins, then i guess he’s fine, but we all know Al and Rob will miss tons of games, and we don’t know yet with porzingis. So no, kornet won’t cut it.

[Hal14]

Just get an additional big and we’re done.
We have enough scoring to move around. Tatum, brown, porzingis, white, brogdon and pritchard. Those 6 guys can create offense on their own. You can always have 3 scoring guys inside all the time. Then we have horf, Rob, hauser and those young guys. What we lack is an extra big. Kornet won’t cut it.

Kornet already did cut it last season. He was our 3rd big last season and we had 2nd best record in the league, #1 in net rating. Kornet was 8th on the team in BPM, ahead of Smart and Grant.

Now with the addition of Porzingis, we only need him to be the 4th big.

Kornet is not a perfect player by any means. But at this point, he knows our systems inside and out. He's 7'2", is a good passer, plays very unselfish basketball on offense, plays hard, works hard, doesn't complain about sporadic playing time, is a great locker room/team chemistry guy, keeps everyone loose with his goofy sense of humor. Plays high IQ, fundamentally sound basketball, sets screens, is a pretty good shot blocker (had a blocks % of 4.9, which was tied for 11th in the NBA last season, a hair below Rob who was 5.0), can catch lobs, etc.

Nah he’s too **** soft. As a 4th big with very limited mins, then i guess he’s fine, but we all know Al and Rob will miss tons of games, and we don’t know yet with porzingis. So no, kornet won’t cut it.

But he already did cut it lol. Nothing you said has proven otherwise.

Again, we had the #1 net rating in the league last season, with Kornet as the 3rd big (and he was 8th on the team in BPM, ahead of Smart and ahead of Grant). Now he's the 4th big.

Rob will likely play more games than last season. Rob had surgery right before the season started last season. It does not look like that will happen again this season - this is the healthiest offseason he's had in his career. And Al pretty much never gets hurt - he only misses games if he is sitting out back to backs, and there's only about 13 of those per season.

Celtics record last season in games Kornet played 12+ mins: 22-7 (.758 winning percentage)
Celtics record in other games: 35-18 (.660 winning percentage)

Keep in mind, many of the games Kornet played 12+ mins were when we were on the 2nd night of a back to back to Horford was sitting out (teams typically have a lower chance of winning on 2nd night of a back to back, not to mention 1 of our starters Horford being out hurts our chances). Also, a lot of the games Kornet played 12+ mins were games Rob was out - which makes it harder for us to win if one of our best players (Rob) is out. So it actually speaks volumes that the team still had a better winning % in those games where Kornet played 12+ mins.

[darrendaye]

Remember, they are approximately 2.2mm in comfortable room under the 2nd apron now. They could roll the dice on the unlikely to be earned incentives for Rob and Derrick and work with up to 1.9mm more. Be mindful of this as you proceed. I can't tell you to assume they want to stay below. But it should be a consideration as one proposes transactions. My favorite route to take would be sign Javonte Green to vet min (guess-timating it to be around 2mm) and trade for Garuba (2.5mm contract value), but realize that would involve them running the risk of the ULTBEs pushing them to the 2nd apron.

[zoyathedestroya]

Remember, they are approximately 2.2mm in comfortable room under the 2nd apron now. They could roll the dice on the unlikely to be earned incentives for Rob and Derrick and work with up to 1.9mm more. Be mindful of this as you proceed. I can't tell you to assume they want to stay below. But it should be a consideration as one proposes transactions. My favorite route to take would be sign Javonte Green to vet min (guess-timating it to be around 2mm) and trade for Garuba (2.5mm contract value), but realize that would involve them running the risk of the ULTBEs pushing them to the 2nd apron.

Yeah, I don't see much reason to stay under the second apron this season since most of the restrictions won't apply until the 2024-25 season. We can't use the MLE anyway since that takes us over the second apron (unless we move off some of the current salary). And we won't be able to sign buyout guys who make more than the NT-MLE. These players historically don't impact title chances. Feels like there's more "flexibility" operating over the 2nd apron this season than under given our situation.

[bigfoot_cryptozoology]

Read on Twitter

[165bows]

bring back Blake. Sign Austin. Be done. Reevaluate the roster and possible trades in-season.

White/JB/JT/Kristaps/Timelord
Brogdon/Al
Pritchard/Hauser/Brissett/Walsh
Banton/Rivers/Blake/Kornet

Davidson/Scrubb on 2-ways

I kind of don’t like the Austin Rivers idea at all but there is something to be said for a versatile guy - he could probably masquerade at anything 1-3 (not well but in a pinch) which has some value.

Same with Justise Winslow - not that good but he could be deep depth for a lot of positions.

If they really want a wing I like the Aaron Wiggins idea a lot, drawback being he won’t be emergency PG depth like Rivers.

Down to bring back Blake though.

[Hal14]

bring back Blake. Sign Austin. Be done. Reevaluate the roster and possible trades in-season.

White/JB/JT/Kristaps/Timelord
Brogdon/Al
Pritchard/Hauser/Brissett/Walsh
Banton/Rivers/Blake/Kornet

Davidson/Scrubb on 2-ways

I kind of don’t like the Austin Rivers idea at all but there is something to be said for a versatile guy - he could probably masquerade at anything 1-3 (not well but in a pinch) which has some value.

Same with Justise Winslow - not that good but he could be deep depth for a lot of positions.

If they really want a wing I like the Aaron Wiggins idea a lot, drawback being he won’t be emergency PG depth like Rivers.

Down to bring back Blake though.

I wouldn't want to have Austin Rivers playing the one. IMO his primary position is the 2, secondary position is the 3.

Agreed that Wiggins could be a solid pickup though. He's young though and hasn't gotten paid a decent contract yet - only been on a dirt cheap rookie deal so far so would probably rather go to a team where there's more guaranteed mins for him..

[165bows]

Remember, they are approximately 2.2mm in comfortable room under the 2nd apron now. They could roll the dice on the unlikely to be earned incentives for Rob and Derrick and work with up to 1.9mm more. Be mindful of this as you proceed. I can't tell you to assume they want to stay below. But it should be a consideration as one proposes transactions. My favorite route to take would be sign Javonte Green to vet min (guess-timating it to be around 2mm) and trade for Garuba (2.5mm contract value), but realize that would involve them running the risk of the ULTBEs pushing them to the 2nd apron.

Just did the math on this and the above numbers include all non-gtd money, ie Champs and Kornet.

Which thinking it through makes sense, since why would they include Kornet in the total but not Champs.
Edit: hmm for some reason that doesn’t include Walsh. His salary is listed in spotrac but his total isn’t listed as a figure for the cap total. Not sure what the deal is with that.