Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5

[WuTang_CMB]

Scottie's passing is encouraging for a player of his size/position. He was right around 5 assists which is really good for non guards. The only non guards to average more per game were Jokic, Sabonis, Draymond, Lebron, Siakam, Ingram, Giannis, KD, PG, Middleton, Towns, Demar -- and not only are these guys much older, they are either offensive hubs or elite offensive players with the ball in their hands a lot. For comparison sake, Siakam didn't get to Barnes assist total until just a couple years ago, at 27 years old and Siakam has transformed himself into a terrific playmaker. The other encouraging sign is that Barnes is a pretty low turnover player.

Just for comparison:

Barnes at 21 averaged 15, 7 and 5.

Jokic at 21 averaged 19, 11 and 6.

Lebron at 21 averaged 31, 7 and 7.

Giannis at 21 averaged 17, 8 and 4.

Not saying he'll ever reached any of those guys level but will be fun to watch how much he can improve. If he can get to the point where he averages around 22, 8 and 8 on good efficiency I would be very, very happy.

Age 21 usage:

21% Scottie
24% Jokic
29% Giannis *edited
35% Lebron

Usage is the biggest thing when looking at those numbers. That's what gives me optimism for Scottie to flourish in his 3rd year. The kid needs the ball so we can figure out what we have, else wtf are we really doing.

[Los_29]

i'm waiting for the Barnes redemption season. the slander against him should be taped to his ceiling and it should be like energy to motivate him everytime he wakes up.

I really have hardly seen any slander against Barnes other than legitimate critique.

He needs to work on his conditioning and his shooting.

Other than that, he's a stud.

Yeah I don’t see it either. Identifying his weaknesses shouldn’t be consider slander on here. Lol. Scottie knows what he has to work on and we are all optimistic he can have a bounce back year.

[ArthurVandelay]

Scottie with the enhanced smile, a healthier locker room, a new coach, and the ball in his hands is going to be fun to watch. Should be all kinds of confidence oozing from him heading into year 3.

[Raps in 4]

Scottie's passing is encouraging for a player of his size/position. He was right around 5 assists which is really good for non guards. The only non guards to average more per game were Jokic, Sabonis, Draymond, Lebron, Siakam, Ingram, Giannis, KD, PG, Middleton, Towns, Demar -- and not only are these guys much older, they are either offensive hubs or elite offensive players with the ball in their hands a lot. For comparison sake, Siakam didn't get to Barnes assist total until just a couple years ago, at 27 years old and Siakam has transformed himself into a terrific playmaker. The other encouraging sign is that Barnes is a pretty low turnover player.

Just for comparison:

Barnes at 21 averaged 15, 7 and 5.

Jokic at 21 averaged 19, 11 and 6.

Lebron at 21 averaged 31, 7 and 7.

Giannis at 21 averaged 17, 8 and 4.

Not saying he'll ever reached any of those guys level but will be fun to watch how much he can improve. If he can get to the point where he averages around 22, 8 and 8 on good efficiency I would be very, very happy.

Those are volume stats.

Scottie was the 4th/5th scoring option on his team. Most of those guys had the keys to their teams.

[Pointgod]

Read on Twitter

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Austin Reeves and Trey Murphy god damn!

[DreamTeam09]

Scottie's passing is encouraging for a player of his size/position. He was right around 5 assists which is really good for non guards. The only non guards to average more per game were Jokic, Sabonis, Draymond, Lebron, Siakam, Ingram, Giannis, KD, PG, Middleton, Towns, Demar -- and not only are these guys much older, they are either offensive hubs or elite offensive players with the ball in their hands a lot. For comparison sake, Siakam didn't get to Barnes assist total until just a couple years ago, at 27 years old and Siakam has transformed himself into a terrific playmaker. The other encouraging sign is that Barnes is a pretty low turnover player.

Just for comparison:

Barnes at 21 averaged 15, 7 and 5.

Jokic at 21 averaged 19, 11 and 6.

Lebron at 21 averaged 31, 7 and 7.

Giannis at 21 averaged 17, 8 and 4.

Not saying he'll ever reached any of those guys level but will be fun to watch how much he can improve. If he can get to the point where he averages around 22, 8 and 8 on good efficiency I would be very, very happy.

Those are volume stats.

Scottie was the 4th/5th scoring option on his team. Most of those guys had the keys to their teams.

Has lebron touched those #s since, Geez 31,7,7 is amazing for a 21yr old. He should've stayed as a scorer instead of trying to be an all around guy. I think he would've been better off in the long run

[TheGeneral99]

Just for comparison:

Barnes at 21 averaged 15, 7 and 5.

Jokic at 21 averaged 19, 11 and 6.

Lebron at 21 averaged 31, 7 and 7.

Giannis at 21 averaged 17, 8 and 4.

Not saying he'll ever reached any of those guys level but will be fun to watch how much he can improve. If he can get to the point where he averages around 22, 8 and 8 on good efficiency I would be very, very happy.

Those are volume stats.

Scottie was the 4th/5th scoring option on his team. Most of those guys had the keys to their teams.

Has lebron touched those #s since, Geez 31,7,7 is amazing for a 21yr old. He should've stayed as a scorer instead of trying to be an all around guy. I think he would've been better off in the long run

Lebron has averaged around 27-30ppg for majority of his career.

Just last year in 2022 he averaged 30 and this year he averaged 29.

I disagree...Lebron is not a great natural shooter, but he's incredibly fast, explosiveness, big and strong which helps him get a ton of easy buckets in the paint and in transition. You watch him and he gets an easy 15-20 points a game just bullying people. That's his bread and butter.

He's never quite been able to develop a consistent shooting stroke, although he can get streaky at times and has a competent/average 3 point shot.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Read on Twitter

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Austin Reeves and Trey Murphy god damn!

So Scottie has the worst TS% out of the lot. Now to me, this is because he played with a team that lack roles especially in relation to FVV and PS. Now I said the same thing for Pascal and FVV as a reason their percentages were lower and got lambasted on the board.

So what is it, are we going to acknowledge roles on the team impact the quality of a players play, or are we going to solely hold individual players responsible for their stats?

[Tacoma]

Scottie's passing is encouraging for a player of his size/position. He was right around 5 assists which is really good for non guards. The only non guards to average more per game were Jokic, Sabonis, Draymond, Lebron, Siakam, Ingram, Giannis, KD, PG, Middleton, Towns, Demar -- and not only are these guys much older, they are either offensive hubs or elite offensive players with the ball in their hands a lot. For comparison sake, Siakam didn't get to Barnes assist total until just a couple years ago, at 27 years old and Siakam has transformed himself into a terrific playmaker. The other encouraging sign is that Barnes is a pretty low turnover player.

Just for comparison:

Barnes at 21 averaged 15, 7 and 5.

Jokic at 21 averaged 19, 11 and 6.

Lebron at 21 averaged 31, 7 and 7.

Giannis at 21 averaged 17, 8 and 4.

Not saying he'll ever reached any of those guys level but will be fun to watch how much he can improve. If he can get to the point where he averages around 22, 8 and 8 on good efficiency I would be very, very happy.

Those are volume stats.

Scottie was the 4th/5th scoring option on his team. Most of those guys had the keys to their teams.

A difference between these future HOF'ers used to compare is they all made a material jump from their rookie to sophomore years. Barnes, on the other hand, didn't improve in his sophomore year. Examples of players who performed worse in the sophomore year and never recovered are Michael Carter-Williams, Dennis Smith Jr. and Tyreke Evans.

This is why it's important to develop Barnes to put him in the best position to succeed to become more like Jokic than MCW. It's a long road but Raptors' future rests with Barnes turning into at least a perennial all star. He's our best hope for better or worse.

[junot111]

Hopefully not being included lights a fire under Scottie the way it did Vince.

He was invited 100%. So was Mobley but they both declined. They have Langston Galloway who is not on an NBA roster and Payton Pritchard. They also have Eric Mika and John Jenkins from the G League Ignite who are 28 and 32 years of age. They are literally scrapping the bottom of barrel for talent. They have Bobby Portis, Cam Johnson, Walker Kessler, Paolo Banchero, Josh Hart and Austin Reaves on the main roster. I actually hope USA loses which I think they will. The 2019 FIBA USA World Cup roster was similar in talent to this one and they finished 7th.

Those journeymen players (Galloway, Jenkins etc) are on the team because they played for them during the NBA season to qualify for the tournament. Not saying they chose them over Scottie/Mobley, but I'm sure they could've solicited better NBA players but chose to reward those players that helped them

[junot111]

Fair enough, it's not elite though.

It’s not? Haha. Enlighten me. You’d be in the minority of folks to say that about Barnes.

How many guys in the league see the floor like Barnes or better?? They certainly exist but there aren’t that many.

What’s interesting is when you generate that list you’ll see the kind of quality of player that sees the floor as well as he does.

I’d actually be surprised if there are people around the league that view Scottie as having elite passing recognition and delivery. Has anyone ever said he’s elite at it? He’s got great vision but saying he’s elite is a pretty big stretch especially given his pedestrian assist rates the past two years. When I think of elite, I think of guys like Luka, Jokic, CP3 and Lebron.

Scottie isn’t there yet but he could get there.

Yeah, it'd be fair to say that's his best trait or he's among the better passers for his size but to call him elite after 2 seasons of being a tertiary playmaker is crazy

[Los_29]

Scottie's passing is encouraging for a player of his size/position. He was right around 5 assists which is really good for non guards. The only non guards to average more per game were Jokic, Sabonis, Draymond, Lebron, Siakam, Ingram, Giannis, KD, PG, Middleton, Towns, Demar -- and not only are these guys much older, they are either offensive hubs or elite offensive players with the ball in their hands a lot. For comparison sake, Siakam didn't get to Barnes assist total until just a couple years ago, at 27 years old and Siakam has transformed himself into a terrific playmaker. The other encouraging sign is that Barnes is a pretty low turnover player.

Just for comparison:

Barnes at 21 averaged 15, 7 and 5.

Jokic at 21 averaged 19, 11 and 6.

Lebron at 21 averaged 31, 7 and 7.

Giannis at 21 averaged 17, 8 and 4.

Not saying he'll ever reached any of those guys level but will be fun to watch how much he can improve. If he can get to the point where he averages around 22, 8 and 8 on good efficiency I would be very, very happy.

Age 21 usage:

21% Scottie
24% Jokic
35% Giannis
35% Lebron

Usage is the biggest thing when looking at those numbers. That's what gives me optimism for Scottie to flourish in his 3rd year. The kid needs the ball so we can figure out what we have, else wtf are we really doing.

Giannis had a usage rate of 22% at 21 years old unless I'm looking in the wrong place. Where did you get that number? Lebron was in his 3rd year and was a generational talent. Jokic was also exceptionally good at 21 and put up a 64% TS%. We can't compare Scottie to Jokic and Lebron because Scottie doesn't have that kind of talent. No team in the league would give Scottie that kind of usage. In fact he may never get that kind of usage. That's not really the player Scottie is. Scottie will have his opportunities though next year. Looking forward to it.

It’s not? Haha. Enlighten me. You’d be in the minority of folks to say that about Barnes.

How many guys in the league see the floor like Barnes or better?? They certainly exist but there aren’t that many.

What’s interesting is when you generate that list you’ll see the kind of quality of player that sees the floor as well as he does.

I’d actually be surprised if there are people around the league that view Scottie as having elite passing recognition and delivery. Has anyone ever said he’s elite at it? He’s got great vision but saying he’s elite is a pretty big stretch especially given his pedestrian assist rates the past two years. When I think of elite, I think of guys like Luka, Jokic, CP3 and Lebron.

Scottie isn’t there yet but he could get there.

Yeah, it'd be fair to say that's his best trait or he's among the better passers for his size but to call him elite after 2 seasons of being a tertiary playmaker is crazy

Exactly. There are levels to this stuff.

[WuTang_CMB]

Just for comparison:

Barnes at 21 averaged 15, 7 and 5.

Jokic at 21 averaged 19, 11 and 6.

Lebron at 21 averaged 31, 7 and 7.

Giannis at 21 averaged 17, 8 and 4.

Not saying he'll ever reached any of those guys level but will be fun to watch how much he can improve. If he can get to the point where he averages around 22, 8 and 8 on good efficiency I would be very, very happy.

Age 21 usage:

21% Scottie
24% Jokic
35% Giannis
35% Lebron

Usage is the biggest thing when looking at those numbers. That's what gives me optimism for Scottie to flourish in his 3rd year. The kid needs the ball so we can figure out what we have, else wtf are we really doing.

Giannis had a usage rate of 22% at 21 years old unless I'm looking in the wrong place. Where did you get that number? Lebron was in his 3rd year and was a generational talent. Jokic was also exceptionally good at 21 and put up a 64% TS%. We can't compare Scottie to Jokic and Lebron because Scottie doesn't have that kind of talent. No team in the league would give Scottie that kind of usage. In fact he may never get that kind of usage. That's not really the player Scottie is. Scottie will have his opportunities though next year. Looking forward to it.

I’d actually be surprised if there are people around the league that view Scottie as having elite passing recognition and delivery. Has anyone ever said he’s elite at it? He’s got great vision but saying he’s elite is a pretty big stretch especially given his pedestrian assist rates the past two years. When I think of elite, I think of guys like Luka, Jokic, CP3 and Lebron.

Scottie isn’t there yet but he could get there.

Yeah, it'd be fair to say that's his best trait or he's among the better passers for his size but to call him elite after 2 seasons of being a tertiary playmaker is crazy

Exactly. There are levels to this stuff.

It is 29% my mistake. No ones comparing him to those guys in a vacuum. What we are doing is seeing the loads of talent he has and giving him more of an opportunity (which so far seems the plan next season). Giannis then went to 31% at age 22 which might be where Scottie ends up next season. From there, we can see what we have with him. If he's not that kind of player, then they likely keep trying with him since he's still young but probably put more emphasis on bringing better talent around him.

[TheGeneral99]

Just for comparison:

Barnes at 21 averaged 15, 7 and 5.

Jokic at 21 averaged 19, 11 and 6.

Lebron at 21 averaged 31, 7 and 7.

Giannis at 21 averaged 17, 8 and 4.

Not saying he'll ever reached any of those guys level but will be fun to watch how much he can improve. If he can get to the point where he averages around 22, 8 and 8 on good efficiency I would be very, very happy.

Those are volume stats.

Scottie was the 4th/5th scoring option on his team. Most of those guys had the keys to their teams.

A difference between these future HOF'ers used to compare is they all made a material jump from their rookie to sophomore years. Barnes, on the other hand, didn't improve in his sophomore year. Examples of players who performed worse in the sophomore year and never recovered are Michael Carter-Williams, Dennis Smith Jr. and Tyreke Evans.

This is why it's important to develop Barnes to put him in the best position to succeed to become more like Jokic than MCW. It's a long road but Raptors' future rests with Barnes turning into at least a perennial all star. He's our best hope for better or worse.

The rookie to sophomore jump obviously should be a judged on a case by case basis.

Tatum had a tough sophomore season, but rebounded and had an all-star 3rd season.

Chris Paul also didn't make a major improvement in his sophomore season, but had an MVP caliber 3rd season.

Westbrook only made a marginal improvement his sophomore season, but by his 3rd season was an all-star.

[Los_29]

Age 21 usage:

21% Scottie
24% Jokic
35% Giannis
35% Lebron

Usage is the biggest thing when looking at those numbers. That's what gives me optimism for Scottie to flourish in his 3rd year. The kid needs the ball so we can figure out what we have, else wtf are we really doing.

Giannis had a usage rate of 22% at 21 years old unless I'm looking in the wrong place. Where did you get that number? Lebron was in his 3rd year and was a generational talent. Jokic was also exceptionally good at 21 and put up a 64% TS%. We can't compare Scottie to Jokic and Lebron because Scottie doesn't have that kind of talent. No team in the league would give Scottie that kind of usage. In fact he may never get that kind of usage. That's not really the player Scottie is. Scottie will have his opportunities though next year. Looking forward to it.

Yeah, it'd be fair to say that's his best trait or he's among the better passers for his size but to call him elite after 2 seasons of being a tertiary playmaker is crazy

Exactly. There are levels to this stuff.

It is 29% my mistake. No ones comparing him to those guys in a vacuum. What we are doing is seeing the loads of talent he has and giving him more of an opportunity (which so far seems the plan next season). Giannis then went to 31% at age 22 which might be where Scottie ends up next season. From there, we can see what we have with him. If he's not that kind of player, then they likely keep trying with him since he's still young but probably put more emphasis on bringing better talent around him.

LOL, it's still wrong. Where are you getting 29%?

[Tha Cynic]

i'm waiting for the Barnes redemption season. the slander against him should be taped to his ceiling and it should be like energy to motivate him everytime he wakes up.

I really have hardly seen any slander against Barnes other than legitimate critique.

He needs to work on his conditioning and his shooting.

Other than that, he's a stud.

Yeah I don’t see it either. Identifying his weaknesses shouldn’t be consider slander on here. Lol. Scottie knows what he has to work on and we are all optimistic he can have a bounce back year.

Yup, identifying weakness is very important. Many here identified weakness for example in our previous PG and are now glad we don't have to deal with all those weaknesses in a regressing player, especially when it was teaching the team how to play selfish. A player like that who has been a stagnant player since 2019 is something we wouldn't want in our young players.

Hopefully a young player like Barnes will improve like young players with talent tend to do. It's important for young players to identify weakness and work on them after the league makes adjustments. If he doesn't, we can pivot to a full tank.

[WuTang_CMB]

Giannis had a usage rate of 22% at 21 years old unless I'm looking in the wrong place. Where did you get that number? Lebron was in his 3rd year and was a generational talent. Jokic was also exceptionally good at 21 and put up a 64% TS%. We can't compare Scottie to Jokic and Lebron because Scottie doesn't have that kind of talent. No team in the league would give Scottie that kind of usage. In fact he may never get that kind of usage. That's not really the player Scottie is. Scottie will have his opportunities though next year. Looking forward to it.



Exactly. There are levels to this stuff.

It is 29% my mistake. No ones comparing him to those guys in a vacuum. What we are doing is seeing the loads of talent he has and giving him more of an opportunity (which so far seems the plan next season). Giannis then went to 31% at age 22 which might be where Scottie ends up next season. From there, we can see what we have with him. If he's not that kind of player, then they likely keep trying with him since he's still young but probably put more emphasis on bringing better talent around him.

LOL, it's still wrong. Where are you getting 29%?

No its right. Go on cleaning the glass not bball reference

[Tha Cynic]

Read on Twitter

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Austin Reeves and Trey Murphy god damn!

So Scottie has the worst TS% out of the lot. Now to me, this is because he played with a team that lack roles especially in relation to FVV and PS. Now I said the same thing for Pascal and FVV as a reason their percentages were lower and got lambasted on the board.

So what is it, are we going to acknowledge roles on the team impact the quality of a players play, or are we going to solely hold individual players responsible for their stats?

You're kind of forgetting that the best players on the team help generate good looks for their team, especially when they should be the most offensively refined players on the team in the late stages of their prime. It's not good when pretty much your entire team is below average and these players continue to play individual games that have shown to fail. If we're going to compare a young player who is known for being extremely raw offensively to your best players, that shows why the team wasn't very good lol. You best players aren't good enough.

Having a good PG would help.

[niQ]

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[HumbleRen]

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Handles are still loose but still looks improved from before.

Needs to incorporate some bend in his knees when dribbling or it’s going to be turnover galore if he’s the lead ball handler.