Free Agency & Trades Rumours Thread 3

[bape_lovers]

Agreed

Raptors were not in the business of making trades for White of the worlds. You do those type of trades if you’re a contender or on the cusp of it.

Not a treadmill team.

[S.W.A.N]

I like how above, us getting a 2nd rd pick in the Thad deal was just completely ignored.

Please don't bring logic and facts into the conversation. This is the raps board

[Tripod]

i mean if we gave a top 10 pick for derrick white, the board will have riot

If you cant see how we could have given up SLIGHTLY more to get White then I don't know what to say to you. Probably best you move on here lol.

We’d be giving up a pick in the 20’s for a starting caliber player who fits a need for our team. Thad was LITERALLY a getting DNP-CDs and our front office decided he’d be a worth giving up a first round pick. Let me remind you Thad was literally unplayable and we thought hey let’s give up a first round pick for a guy that would 100% get cut if we didn’t overpay for him.

Except you LITERALLY ignore tbe rest of the trade.

The trade also got us out of the tax,p and more importantly, you LITERALLY ignore we got a 2nd round pick coming back.

So when you rant, can you please post ALL THE LITERAL FACTS.

[sidsid]

https://defector.com/surely-christian-wood-still-has-something-to-offer

as the mid-career guys suddenly out of work can show macro trends in how the game is played (dead-end, real-hooper-types like Kelly Oubre found smoldering like Chicxulub) and how rosters are constructed (the wingification of the NBA also means fewer teams are signing third point guards). Which brings us to 27-year-old big man Christian Wood.

Going to use wingification from here on out.

The pushing out of the edges on guards and bigs was always going to be the play for smart teams looking for more impactful playoff performers.

Treating guards like the NFL running back market is the savvy cap management approach.

The Christian Woods of the world is just a more entrenched trend of not paying no D bigs anymore.

[OakleyDokely]

https://defector.com/surely-christian-wood-still-has-something-to-offer

as the mid-career guys suddenly out of work can show macro trends in how the game is played (dead-end, real-hooper-types like Kelly Oubre found smoldering like Chicxulub) and how rosters are constructed (the wingification of the NBA also means fewer teams are signing third point guards). Which brings us to 27-year-old big man Christian Wood.

Going to use wingification from here on out.

The pushing out of the edges on guards and bigs was always going to be the play for smart teams looking for more impactful playoff performers.

Treating guards like the NFL running back market is the savvy cap management approach.

The Christian Woods of the world is just a more entrenched trend of not paying no D bigs anymore.

Teams basically roll with one guard or ballhandler, 3 wings and a big.

A lot of teams just go with 4-5 wings in smallball lineups to close games.

Most stars are so versatile now that they act as the primary ballhandler/playmaker on their team so the need for another ballhander is gone, unless that other ballhandler can play off the ball.

[sidsid]

https://defector.com/surely-christian-wood-still-has-something-to-offer

as the mid-career guys suddenly out of work can show macro trends in how the game is played (dead-end, real-hooper-types like Kelly Oubre found smoldering like Chicxulub) and how rosters are constructed (the wingification of the NBA also means fewer teams are signing third point guards). Which brings us to 27-year-old big man Christian Wood.

Going to use wingification from here on out.

The pushing out of the edges on guards and bigs was always going to be the play for smart teams looking for more impactful playoff performers.

Treating guards like the NFL running back market is the savvy cap management approach.

The Christian Woods of the world is just a more entrenched trend of not paying no D bigs anymore.

Teams basically roll with one guard or ballhandler, 3 wings and a big.

A lot of teams just go with 4-5 wings in smallball lineups to close games.

Most stars are so versatile now that they act as the primary ballhandler/playmaker on their team so the need for another ballhander is gone, unless that other ballhandler can play off the ball.

The Celtics having basically 3 combo guards making around prior year Fred money is absurd when looking back on it. Not even sure you can rationalize 2 now. They don't provide stackable advantages and it's a costly way to mitigate injury risk.

But it goes back to the problem of the lack of available talent at the wing position. Teams want to play that way, but they just can't.

[Pointgod]

i mean if we gave a top 10 pick for derrick white, the board will have riot

We’d be giving up a pick in the 20’s for a starting caliber player who fits a need for our team. Thad was LITERALLY a getting DNP-CDs and our front office decided he’d be a worth giving up a first round pick. Let me remind you Thad was literally unplayable and we thought hey let’s give up a first round pick for a guy that would 100% get cut if we didn’t overpay for him.

Except you LITERALLY ignore tbe rest of the trade.

The trade also got us out of the tax,p and more importantly, you LITERALLY ignore we got a 2nd round pick coming back.

So when you rant, can you please post ALL THE LITERAL FACTS.

The fact that this front office traded a first round pick and expiring contract for a guy was going to get cut and a second round pick doesn’t make the trade any better. You can still try to polish the turd of a trade but there’s zero excuses for it then and it’s even worse in hindsight.

[Tripod]

We’d be giving up a pick in the 20’s for a starting caliber player who fits a need for our team. Thad was LITERALLY a getting DNP-CDs and our front office decided he’d be a worth giving up a first round pick. Let me remind you Thad was literally unplayable and we thought hey let’s give up a first round pick for a guy that would 100% get cut if we didn’t overpay for him.

Except you LITERALLY ignore tbe rest of the trade.

The trade also got us out of the tax,p and more importantly, you LITERALLY ignore we got a 2nd round pick coming back.

So when you rant, can you please post ALL THE LITERAL FACTS.

The fact that this front office traded a first round pick and expiring contract for a guy was going to get cut and a second round pick doesn’t make the trade any better. You can still try to polish the turd of a trade but there’s zero excuses for it then and it’s even worse in hindsight.

Sure it does. You ignored the 2nd as if it didn't exist, yet it did. And we still have the asset in Koloko.

And you ignore the trade got the Raps under the tax line which saved lots of money. You might not like it, but that trade had purpose. It wasn't just about trading a 1st for a 2nd for no reason. It was a calculated move that resulted in dropping 13 spots. Maybe we wait and see what the picks develop into before freaking out.

But the least you can do, is include ALL the info during your rants.

[Pointgod]

Except you LITERALLY ignore tbe rest of the trade.

The trade also got us out of the tax,p and more importantly, you LITERALLY ignore we got a 2nd round pick coming back.

So when you rant, can you please post ALL THE LITERAL FACTS.

The fact that this front office traded a first round pick and expiring contract for a guy was going to get cut and a second round pick doesn’t make the trade any better. You can still try to polish the turd of a trade but there’s zero excuses for it then and it’s even worse in hindsight.

Sure it does. You ignored the 2nd as if it didn't exist, yet it did. And we still have the asset in Koloko.

And you ignore the trade got the Raps under the tax line which saved lots of money. You might not like it, but that trade had purpose. It wasn't just about trading a 1st for a 2nd for no reason. It was a calculated move that resulted in dropping 13 spots. Maybe we wait and see what the picks develop into before freaking out.

But the least you can do, is include ALL the info during your rants.

If the Raptors wanted to save money they could have just traded Thad for Dragic straight up. There’s literally zero reason to add a first round pick in there. They had zero foresight that Koloko would be available with the second pick and what they did was trade the opportunity to draft a better player to draft a player who statistically probably won’t stick with the team past his rookie contract. So they managed to get the worse pick and they didn’t get a better player but managed to save a couple of dollars. Horrible trade.

[mademan]

The trade was only necessary because Masai didnt want to trade Lowry for a mid tier underhwhelming prospect/package at the deadline and so settled for a mid tier underwhelming prospect in a S&T which necessitated us taking back Dragic's balloon contract to match- a 20mill contract from a player who had no intention of playing for us. We then had to use assets to dump him to get under the tax.

It was clearly misplayed and im not sure why anybody defends it. Was it some huge tragedy that someone needs to get fired over? no. But it is 1 in what has been a series of bad moves that have put us in a bad spot. This chit adds up

[Tripod]

The fact that this front office traded a first round pick and expiring contract for a guy was going to get cut and a second round pick doesn’t make the trade any better. You can still try to polish the turd of a trade but there’s zero excuses for it then and it’s even worse in hindsight.

Sure it does. You ignored the 2nd as if it didn't exist, yet it did. And we still have the asset in Koloko.

And you ignore the trade got the Raps under the tax line which saved lots of money. You might not like it, but that trade had purpose. It wasn't just about trading a 1st for a 2nd for no reason. It was a calculated move that resulted in dropping 13 spots. Maybe we wait and see what the picks develop into before freaking out.

But the least you can do, is include ALL the info during your rants.

If the Raptors wanted to save money they could have just traded Thad for Dragic straight up. There’s literally zero reason to add a first round pick in there. They had zero foresight that Koloko would be available with the second pick and what they did was trade the opportunity to draft a better player to draft a player who statistically probably won’t stick with the team past his rookie contract. So they managed to get the worse pick and they didn’t get a better player but managed to save a couple of dollars. Horrible trade.

Well ****. Why didn't someone tell MU he could just do that?

Oh wait, maybe because the Spurs needed INCENTIVE to take on tbe more expensive player and buy him out? Naw, that couldn't be it.

They were comfortable moving down in tbe draft as they felt they could get a comparable player. Time will tell if they were right or wrong. You just want to judge it after 1 year.

10+ million dollars is not a couple of dollars

[ciueli]

The trade was only necessary because Masai didnt want to trade Lowry for a mid tier underhwhelming prospect/package at the deadline and so settled for a mid tier underwhelming prospect in a S&T which necessitated us taking back Dragic's balloon contract to match- a 20mill contract from a player who had no intention of playing for us. We then had to use assets to dump him to get under the tax.

It was clearly misplayed and im not sure why anybody defends it. Was it some huge tragedy that someone needs to get fired over? no. But it is 1 in what has been a series of bad moves that have put us in a bad spot. This chit adds up

The Dragic trade with San Antonio was not made to get out of the luxury tax, the Raptors were under the tax line at the time. It also wasn't made to save money because they could have saved just as much money by buying Dragic out at the deadline as the Spurs did after he was traded.

Very likely the trade was done primarily to get Thad Young, but also to save a bit of money on the player they intended to draft, any one of Christian Koloko, Caleb Houstan, or Andrew Nembhard.

[mademan]

The trade was only necessary because Masai didnt want to trade Lowry for a mid tier underhwhelming prospect/package at the deadline and so settled for a mid tier underwhelming prospect in a S&T which necessitated us taking back Dragic's balloon contract to match- a 20mill contract from a player who had no intention of playing for us. We then had to use assets to dump him to get under the tax.

It was clearly misplayed and im not sure why anybody defends it. Was it some huge tragedy that someone needs to get fired over? no. But it is 1 in what has been a series of bad moves that have put us in a bad spot. This chit adds up

The Dragic trade with San Antonio was not made to get out of the luxury tax, the Raptors were under the tax line at the time. It also wasn't made to save money because they could have saved just as much money by buying Dragic out at the deadline as the Spurs did after he was traded.

Very likely the trade was done primarily to get Thad Young, but also to save a bit of money on the player they intended to draft, any one of Christian Koloko, Caleb Houstan, or Andrew Nembhard.

no we were definitely in the luxury tax, and so, at the time, the trade was justified. It was getting into the luxury tax that was the problem and then needing to pay to get under.

https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-luxury-tax-explained

If your version was correct, it would honestly be even worse. If there was no financial incentive, trading down a non-insignificant amount to get Thad Young- a vet that was getting DNP's on a tanking team and was about to be cut- is just god awful.

[DreamTeam09]

The trade was only necessary because Masai didnt want to trade Lowry for a mid tier underhwhelming prospect/package at the deadline and so settled for a mid tier underwhelming prospect in a S&T which necessitated us taking back Dragic's balloon contract to match- a 20mill contract from a player who had no intention of playing for us. We then had to use assets to dump him to get under the tax.

It was clearly misplayed and im not sure why anybody defends it. Was it some huge tragedy that someone needs to get fired over? no. But it is 1 in what has been a series of bad moves that have put us in a bad spot. This chit adds up

The Dragic trade with San Antonio was not made to get out of the luxury tax, the Raptors were under the tax line at the time. It also wasn't made to save money because they could have saved just as much money by buying Dragic out at the deadline as the Spurs did after he was traded.

Very likely the trade was done primarily to get Thad Young, but also to save a bit of money on the player they intended to draft, any one of Christian Koloko, Caleb Houstan, or Andrew Nembhard.

no we were definitely in the luxury tax, and so, at the time, the trade was justified. It was getting into the luxury tax that was the problem and then needing to pay to get under.

https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-luxury-tax-explained

If your version was correct, it would honestly be even worse. If there was no financial incentive, trading down a non-insignificant amount to get Thad Young- a vet that was getting DNP's on a tanking team and was about to be cut- is just god awful.

Another example of ppl being wrong and strong without even doing a tiny bit hmk to figure out if what they think or perceive is actually factual or can be backed up with some sort of statistical data.... Smh

[ciueli]

The trade was only necessary because Masai didnt want to trade Lowry for a mid tier underhwhelming prospect/package at the deadline and so settled for a mid tier underwhelming prospect in a S&T which necessitated us taking back Dragic's balloon contract to match- a 20mill contract from a player who had no intention of playing for us. We then had to use assets to dump him to get under the tax.

It was clearly misplayed and im not sure why anybody defends it. Was it some huge tragedy that someone needs to get fired over? no. But it is 1 in what has been a series of bad moves that have put us in a bad spot. This chit adds up

The Dragic trade with San Antonio was not made to get out of the luxury tax, the Raptors were under the tax line at the time. It also wasn't made to save money because they could have saved just as much money by buying Dragic out at the deadline as the Spurs did after he was traded.

Very likely the trade was done primarily to get Thad Young, but also to save a bit of money on the player they intended to draft, any one of Christian Koloko, Caleb Houstan, or Andrew Nembhard.

no we were definitely in the luxury tax, and so, at the time, the trade was justified. It was getting into the luxury tax that was the problem and then needing to pay to get under.

https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-luxury-tax-explained

If your version was correct, it would honestly be even worse. If there was no financial incentive, trading down a non-insignificant amount to get Thad Young- a vet that was getting DNP's on a tanking team and was about to be cut- is just god awful.

From the very article you quoted:

For one, Toronto has reportedly asked Isaac Bonga and Sam Dekker to push the date their contracts guarantee to Nov 6, per ESPN's Bobby Marks. That gives Toronto an extra two weeks to decide what to do with the two forwards and potentially shed $1.67 million to get below the luxury tax threshold at a later date. The Raptors could keep the two forwards around until Chris Boucher and Yuta Watanabe get healthy and then waive one of them to save some money.

We actually did not keep Dekker, so we were under the tax. I believe buying Dragic out of his contract also would have dropped the team salary below the tax line, but I can't find a reference to confirm this, I remember reading it somewhere.

[mademan]

The Dragic trade with San Antonio was not made to get out of the luxury tax, the Raptors were under the tax line at the time. It also wasn't made to save money because they could have saved just as much money by buying Dragic out at the deadline as the Spurs did after he was traded.

Very likely the trade was done primarily to get Thad Young, but also to save a bit of money on the player they intended to draft, any one of Christian Koloko, Caleb Houstan, or Andrew Nembhard.

no we were definitely in the luxury tax, and so, at the time, the trade was justified. It was getting into the luxury tax that was the problem and then needing to pay to get under.

https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-luxury-tax-explained

If your version was correct, it would honestly be even worse. If there was no financial incentive, trading down a non-insignificant amount to get Thad Young- a vet that was getting DNP's on a tanking team and was about to be cut- is just god awful.

From the very article you quoted:

For one, Toronto has reportedly asked Isaac Bonga and Sam Dekker to push the date their contracts guarantee to Nov 6, per ESPN's Bobby Marks. That gives Toronto an extra two weeks to decide what to do with the two forwards and potentially shed $1.67 million to get below the luxury tax threshold at a later date. The Raptors could keep the two forwards around until Chris Boucher and Yuta Watanabe get healthy and then waive one of them to save some money.

We actually did not keep Dekker, so we were under the tax. I believe buying Dragic out of his contract also would have dropped the team salary below the tax line, but I can't find a reference to confirm this, I remember reading it somewhere.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nba/news/raptors-trade-goran-dragic-to-spurs-for-thaddeus-young

"It’s the money that matters to Toronto in this trade. The deal puts the Raptors Raptors $3.75 million below the luxury tax line, which ends up being an eight-figure swing (once you add in the Raptors will now get a more than $10 million payout, the teams under the tax split the tax money the teams over the line pay out)."

It was understood that this trade was a financial move.

[C_Money]

We were definitely over the luxury tax. I remember that clearly.

[Pointgod]

The Dragic trade with San Antonio was not made to get out of the luxury tax, the Raptors were under the tax line at the time. It also wasn't made to save money because they could have saved just as much money by buying Dragic out at the deadline as the Spurs did after he was traded.

Very likely the trade was done primarily to get Thad Young, but also to save a bit of money on the player they intended to draft, any one of Christian Koloko, Caleb Houstan, or Andrew Nembhard.

no we were definitely in the luxury tax, and so, at the time, the trade was justified. It was getting into the luxury tax that was the problem and then needing to pay to get under.

https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-luxury-tax-explained

If your version was correct, it would honestly be even worse. If there was no financial incentive, trading down a non-insignificant amount to get Thad Young- a vet that was getting DNP's on a tanking team and was about to be cut- is just god awful.

From the very article you quoted:

For one, Toronto has reportedly asked Isaac Bonga and Sam Dekker to push the date their contracts guarantee to Nov 6, per ESPN's Bobby Marks. That gives Toronto an extra two weeks to decide what to do with the two forwards and potentially shed $1.67 million to get below the luxury tax threshold at a later date. The Raptors could keep the two forwards around until Chris Boucher and Yuta Watanabe get healthy and then waive one of them to save some money.

We actually did not keep Dekker, so we were under the tax. I believe buying Dragic out of his contract also would have dropped the team salary below the tax line, but I can't find a reference to confirm this, I remember reading it somewhere.

We were over the tax, but it was still a dumb move because you don’t have to trade a first round pick to get the Spurs who were probably under the cap to take on 5 million in salary. A second round pick does the trick. The front office actually wanted a guy who was collecting DNP-CD’s and they figured dropping 13 spots in the draft was worth it to bring him onto the team. Just poor draft and I don’t know how anyone defends it.

[Pointgod]

Sure it does. You ignored the 2nd as if it didn't exist, yet it did. And we still have the asset in Koloko.

And you ignore the trade got the Raps under the tax line which saved lots of money. You might not like it, but that trade had purpose. It wasn't just about trading a 1st for a 2nd for no reason. It was a calculated move that resulted in dropping 13 spots. Maybe we wait and see what the picks develop into before freaking out.

But the least you can do, is include ALL the info during your rants.

If the Raptors wanted to save money they could have just traded Thad for Dragic straight up. There’s literally zero reason to add a first round pick in there. They had zero foresight that Koloko would be available with the second pick and what they did was trade the opportunity to draft a better player to draft a player who statistically probably won’t stick with the team past his rookie contract. So they managed to get the worse pick and they didn’t get a better player but managed to save a couple of dollars. Horrible trade.

Well ****. Why didn't someone tell MU he could just do that?

Oh wait, maybe because the Spurs needed INCENTIVE to take on tbe more expensive player and buy him out? Naw, that couldn't be it.

They were comfortable moving down in tbe draft as they felt they could get a comparable player. Time will tell if they were right or wrong. You just want to judge it after 1 year.

10+ million dollars is not a couple of dollars

Look at things objectively.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2022.html

Malaki Branam, Walker Kessler, Christian Braun, Andrew Nembhard all has better rookie seasons than Koloko. There are a bunch of players from 20 to 33 who had similar rookie seasons to Koloko and a few that had worse rookie seasons. Point is that even as a rookie Koloko didn’t stand out and there are at least 4 guys we could have picked clearly ahead of him on the curve. He could surpass all of them next year, yeah it’s possible, but you can make the same argument for any of the players drafted before Koloko as well. We swapped the chance to draft a higher impact player for a lower impact player to save money and pay Thad Young to sit on the bench. Second round picks have a low hit rate historically. I remember how everyone was hyped up during Delano Banton’s rookie season only for us to cut him loose. Horrible trade.

[ciueli]

no we were definitely in the luxury tax, and so, at the time, the trade was justified. It was getting into the luxury tax that was the problem and then needing to pay to get under.

https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-luxury-tax-explained

If your version was correct, it would honestly be even worse. If there was no financial incentive, trading down a non-insignificant amount to get Thad Young- a vet that was getting DNP's on a tanking team and was about to be cut- is just god awful.

From the very article you quoted:

For one, Toronto has reportedly asked Isaac Bonga and Sam Dekker to push the date their contracts guarantee to Nov 6, per ESPN's Bobby Marks. That gives Toronto an extra two weeks to decide what to do with the two forwards and potentially shed $1.67 million to get below the luxury tax threshold at a later date. The Raptors could keep the two forwards around until Chris Boucher and Yuta Watanabe get healthy and then waive one of them to save some money.

We actually did not keep Dekker, so we were under the tax. I believe buying Dragic out of his contract also would have dropped the team salary below the tax line, but I can't find a reference to confirm this, I remember reading it somewhere.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nba/news/raptors-trade-goran-dragic-to-spurs-for-thaddeus-young

"It’s the money that matters to Toronto in this trade. The deal puts the Raptors Raptors $3.75 million below the luxury tax line, which ends up being an eight-figure swing (once you add in the Raptors will now get a more than $10 million payout, the teams under the tax split the tax money the teams over the line pay out)."

It was understood that this trade was a financial move.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nba/article/raptors-waived-sam-dekker-explaining-luxury-tax-implications/

Why do this?

The Raptors are extremely close to the league’s luxury tax line right now. By waiving Dekker, they’re currently skirting it by just $18,541, based on my numbers.

They might get additional breathing room there if Gary Trent Jr. doesn’t achieve some of his bonuses or if they make a trade down the line that brings back less salary than they send out. For now, though, this allows them to operate without the threat of the luxury tax moving forward.

They were under the tax after they waived Dekker.