Hakeem v. Amare offense only

[penbeast0]

Ignoring the HUGE defensive difference, is Amare a better offensive player than Hakeem taking into account relative scoring volume, scoring efficiency, ability to score in a variety of ways, playoff resilience, offensive rebounding, blocking out, playmaking, setting picks, etc.?

People may not remember it, but Amare was a 1st or 2nd team All-NBA center 5 times between 2005 and 2011 despite his defensive reputation. Hakeem was 1st team 6 times, 2nd team 2 times, and 3rd team a couple of times as well.

[migya]

Amar'e may be underrated but he's not on Olajuwon's level offensively. In the half court especially, Olajuwon was much better and had the most skilled offensive game among bigs ever. When looking at playoffs particularly he was much better.

[1993Playoffs]

Maybe Hakeem but it’s really close imo.

I think the main point of these recent threads shows a gap offensively between Hakeem and the actual offensive GOAT tier Cs like Jokic, Kareem, Shaq , Wilt? Outside of 93-95 he wasn’t really in those guys league offensively

[AEnigma]

Hakeem certainly the better playmaker and self creator. Amar’e might have more offensive value specifically next to someone like Nash or Harden or DWill, but that is more about proof of concept (could Hakeem have developed into a strong pnr finisher if provided that type of guard play early?).

[henshao]

My God if Hakeem had Steve Nash to pump up his offensive stats for his whole prime

[70sFan]

That's actually reasonable question, but I don't think we have seen enough from Stoudemire to pick him as the first option over Hakeem. It's likely that Olajuwon wouldn't fit nearly as well next to someone like Nash though.

[70sFan]

Amar'e may be underrated but he's not on Olajuwon's level offensively. In the half court especially, Olajuwon was much better and had the most skilled offensive game among bigs ever. When looking at playoffs particularly he was much better.

Eh, we live in an era of Nikola Jokic and even before him, I definitely wouldn't pick Hakeem for the most skilled big (or even center) award.

[BDR263]

Amar'e in the PnR was what dreams are made of. Still take the actual Dream over him though.

[penbeast0]

Career numbers (per 100 possessions where percentages aren't used)

Hakeem 35.7min, 30.3pts, 4.5orb, 3.4ast, 4.1to, on .553ts% (93 and 94 were his only 2 seasons over 100 TS Add)
Amare 31.0min, 31.0pts, 3.9orb, 2.0ast, 3.8to, on .597ts% (.585 in New York, 1 season over 300 TS Add, 3 seasons over 200)

By the numbers, Amare has an advantage in efficiency (even without Nash) and a much greater one in TS Add. Hakeem is the better passer. Doesn't make them comparable overall players but I would say Amare seemed a better offensive player in their primes.

[AEnigma]

Career numbers (per 100 possessions where percentages aren't used)

Hakeem 35.7min, 30.3pts, 4.5orb, 3.4ast, 4.1to, on .553ts% (93 and 94 were his only 2 seasons over 100 TS Add)
Amare 31.0min, 31.0pts, 3.9orb, 2.0ast, 3.8to, on .597ts% (.585 in New York, 1 season over 300 TS Add, 3 seasons over 200)

By the numbers, Amare has an advantage in efficiency (even without Nash) and a much greater one in TS Add. Hakeem is the better passer. Doesn't make them comparable overall players but I would say Amare seemed a better offensive player in their primes.

Not really sure where you are getting those numbers. Amar’e’s career on the Knicks has him with 57.4% efficiency… and his two years as a starter have him at 55.8% efficiency, or just 56.5% if we throw out the second year.

We can filter out minutes shared with Nash during his prime and see he scores at 59.8% without Nash from 2005-10, so I have no real objections to calling prime Amar’e a better base level scorer than Hakeem (although I am less certain to the extent that translates into the postseason, where prime Amar’e drops to 59.1% even before any Nash filtering). Still, when making the argument, important to use accurate numbers.

[cupcakesnake]

Amar'e offensive game was super simple butv ery deadly. Opponents feared his explosive first step and strength so that gave him so much rim pressure (he averaged 10 FTA per game in 2005!!!), but if you tried too hard to take away the rim, he would happily counter into his midrange pull up. There were really just these 2 steps to Amar'e offensive, but those 2 steps were not easy to deal with.

Couple of things:
- Amar'e' counter (that pull up) was not consistent season to season. He peaks in 2008 by hitting 48.8%(!!) of his long 2s, but also has whole seasons where he drops into the low 40s, and for his career manages a more mortal 43%. He got a ton of elevation on his jumper, so I think when the hops go away, it's no longer a weapon. He stops shooting them much after his Knicks injuries.

- Amar'e was such a bad playmaker that good defenses could turn him off in the playoffs by just by giving him different looks with their backline coverages. The Spurs would famously get torched by Amar'e for 3 quarters and then make him disapear in final 5 minutes of close games. If he couldn't be a pure finisher or go to his counter, he looked truly lost. He starts figuring it out in his final year with Phoenix, but then the injuries start really shutting him down soon after.

[penbeast0]

Not really sure where you are getting those numbers. Amar’e’s career on the Knicks has him with 57.4% efficiency… and his two years as a starter have him at 55.8% efficiency, or just 56.5% if we throw out the second year....

You are correct, I just mistyped it (fat finger syndrome).

Another point on Hakeem's side; although his offense, particularly with Horry at PF, was one of the best of his day at providing spacing for the center to work, he faced more doubles and stacked coverages than Amare.