Re-Signed: The PJ Washington Jr. Thread (3yrs/$48m)

[wilson115]

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Guess they have Miles penciled in at the 4 all along and don't want to spend starter money on a back-up. Only way it makes sense. I got nothing.

[amcoolio]

Okoro? He isn't as good as PJ offensively obviously but he's still 22 and was a very good defender last year and makes more sense positionally if we are keeping Thor, Kai, Mark, Nick as bigs, and Gordon is probably best suited as a 4 at his age

[luciano-davidwesley]

Okoro? He isn't as good as PJ offensively obviously but he's still 22 and was a very good defender last year and makes more sense positionally if we are keeping Thor, Kai, Mark, Nick as bigs, and Gordon is probably best suited as a 4 at his age

Okoro for PJ would be awful without significant further incentive for us.

[JDR720]

Okoro is a solid defensive wing. But I'm not sure what we're going to do with all our wings/guards. He and Martin are very similar too.

[yosemiteben]

Not sure I buy that report. I doubt PJ wants to come off the bench, but it seems super clunky to play him at SF next to Mobley and Allen.

[LofJ]

Okoro isn't enough for salary matching by himself. Rubio would probably have to be included as well, but since he's likely taking this season off that kills it for me.

I think a 3 team trade would be necessary here. The Pelicans were rumored to want Jarrett Allen. So Allen to the Pelicans, PJ to the Cavs, Nance + Lewis + pick to us.

It's probably not realistic, but it were me I'd put everything on the table that's not LaMelo, Mark, Miller, or Miles to swap Lewis for Daniels. He's got some work to do on offense, but he was a plus defender as a rookie, he can pass, and he has high basketball IQ. If/when he can improve as a shooter he has the makings of an elite role player.

[wilson115]

Not sure I buy that report. I doubt PJ wants to come off the bench, but it seems super clunky to play him at SF next to Mobley and Allen.

They started Lauri next to those two. Didn't work because of Lauri's defense. PJ solves that. My take at least.

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[yosemiteben]

Not sure I buy that report. I doubt PJ wants to come off the bench, but it seems super clunky to play him at SF next to Mobley and Allen.

They started Lauri next to those two. Didn't work because of Lauri's defense. PJ solves that. My take at least.

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Yeah, I guess it could work, just seems strange because I don't recall him ever playing SF for us. When he played next to Miles and a center, Miles was always guarding the wing and playing out on the perimeter, and Miles had much more significant ball handling responsibilities.

[Rich4114]

It's hard to come up with a trade scenario where we end up with someone who is just as good as PJ. I don't get why they're not just signing him if Beef Stew money would get it done.

[SWedd523]

It's hard to come up with a trade scenario where we end up with someone who is just as good as PJ. I don't get why they're not just signing him if Beef Stew money would get it done.

Maybe he wants more? Maybe the team doesn't want to give him a long term deal?

I'm not going to put speculative NBA2k terms on it like "just give him X money" without having any details of the negotiations

[fatlever]

i can only assume that with miller here, we prefer miles as long term 4 (risky gamble) and dont think we should both sign pj now and also chase miles later, with one as a backup.

i think 18 mil for pj is fair (based on comps), and i expect him to get that much next summer from another team if he is ufa.

[SWedd523]

i can only assume that with miller here, we prefer miles as long term 4 (risky gamble) and dont think we should both sign pj now and also chase miles later, with one as a backup.

This is my assumption as well and, honestly, seems like the correct move from an on-court perspective. Miles walking obviously throws that plan into the trash, but it makes sense to prioritize him over PJ.

i think 18 mil for pj is fair (based on comps), and i expect him to get that much next summer from another team if he is ufa.

We don't know what he and his agent are demanding.

[JMAC3]

I am torn. PJ in a vacuum is probably not worth 20 million. However, we really have no reason not to overpay him at this point. Who else are we going to pay?

This year? We have the lowest payroll. He is by far the best player left. There is nobody better to pay and we aren't SnT him for a better player. Next year? We have 40-45 million or so if we don't sign PJ. Miles will demand the majority of that, and the rest of the FA class is a bunch of older players that don't fit our timeline. If we give Miles 30 and PJ 15 next year that is pretty much the same thing as giving PJ 20 now and Miles 35 next year. Either way we won't have cap space.

Paying PJ to come off the bench? Yeah that is what happens when you have good young players making pennies. LaMelo makes 11 this year, Miller makes 11, Mark makes 11 over the next 3 years combined, Martin and Richards are on team friendly LT deals. Who else/What else are we going to pay? We don't need to save money to sign a starting center, we don't need to shop for a FA point guard. Basically, we have all 5 starting spots filled for the foreseeable future.

What it boils down to me is that we aren't a FA destination, trying to save a few million here and there isn't going to land us a superstar in FA. We are better off to accumulate contracts and then look to consolidate for a player who is overpaid or asking out.

Lakers are a good example of modern team building now. They overpaid DLo and Rui 100%. Why? Because letting them walk would have netted them nothing. Nothing at all. No cap space. No wins. They were better to go over the cap to sign them and retain the asset.

That is how Hornets should operate. If we were over the cap currently. PJ was a FA. Would you prefer to let him walk for nothing? or sign him and figure it out later? That is basically how it would be, we don't sign PJ. We sign Miles to a 30 million next year and then we have 10 million in cap space to sign a bench player.

Unless you honestly think our small market is going to attract a better FA for 10 million next offseason then PJ it makes more sense to just pay PJ now.

[Rich4114]

I am torn. PJ in a vacuum is probably not worth 20 million. However, we really have no reason not to overpay him at this point. Who else are we going to pay?

This year? We have the lowest payroll. He is by far the best player left. There is nobody better to pay and we aren't SnT him for a better player. Next year? We have 40-45 million or so if we don't sign PJ. Miles will demand the majority of that, and the rest of the FA class is a bunch of older players that don't fit our timeline. If we give Miles 30 and PJ 15 next year that is pretty much the same thing as giving PJ 20 now and Miles 35 next year. Either way we won't have cap space.

Paying PJ to come off the bench? Yeah that is what happens when you have good young players making pennies. LaMelo makes 11 this year, Miller makes 11, Mark makes 11 over the next 3 years combined, Martin and Richards are on team friendly LT deals. Who else/What else are we going to pay? We don't need to save money to sign a starting center, we don't need to shop for a FA point guard. Basically, we have all 5 starting spots filled for the foreseeable future.

What it boils down to me is that we aren't a FA destination, trying to save a few million here and there isn't going to land us a superstar in FA. We are better off to accumulate contracts and then look to consolidate for a player who is overpaid or asking out.

Lakers are a good example of modern team building now. They overpaid DLo and Rui 100%. Why? Because letting them walk would have netted them nothing. Nothing at all. No cap space. No wins. They were better to go over the cap to sign them and retain the asset.

That is how Hornets should operate. If we were over the cap currently. PJ was a FA. Would you prefer to let him walk for nothing? or sign him and figure it out later? That is basically how it would be, we don't sign PJ. We sign Miles to a 30 million next year and then we have 10 million in cap space to sign a bench player.

Unless you honestly think our small market is going to attract a better FA for 10 million next offseason then PJ it makes more sense to just pay PJ now.

I mean, it's hard to disagree with this. If they don't have PJ in their vision for the long term, then they really should have shopped him last season or should be scouring teams who are interested in a S&T based on what he's asking or they think he's worth. If he is in their vision, then what is the value to the team even if he does end up being a fringe starter? He's pretty reliable, is clutch, is a prototypical stretch 4 who can guard players much bigger than him with success. You're not going to struggle to trade him down the road if his annual salary is sub $20m, so I just don't understand what they're doing here. There could be something else going on we don't know about or it could be hesitation to commit to PJ with how they think he fits long term with the rest of the roster. To me, he slots in just fine as a starting F and I don't see a reason you couldn't play him, Miles and Miller all at the same time considering how different their games all are. And you sure as hell can't be making decisions on guys like PJ based on Rozier or Hayward. But it would not shock me in the least bit if Mitch IS worried about other players fit next to Rozier and Hayward, which to me is a fire-able offense.

[fatlever]

I finally agree with jmac on something. Mark this day in your calendars everyone

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[Diop]

yeah that's a well thought out post jmac, hard to disagree with it.

unless PJ comes in like Cleveland Kemp, it does seem the obvious move

[amcoolio]

I really don't get spending money just because you have the space. Teams would much rather trade their disgruntled star for pure cap space/trade exemption than take back contracts. Rozier isn't netting us anything in trade nor is he an asset just because we had the money and gave him a contract. Are you really making that argument for Terry? Because PJ will be the same if we give him a long term deal. It's time we think proactively and not continue to be one of the worst ran franchises in all of professional sports.

[Rays Pompadour]

Since there's a near total media blackout in Charlotte, idle speculation seeks to fill the void. I still think a deal will get done, but it could take a while. Best to take the long view.

Meanwhile, I don't care. Happy day, all!

[Diop]

PJ for me will always be a solid, Marv type, 3 n D forward. He will be easier to trade than Rozier who is an undersized scoring guard.

[Rich4114]

PJ for me will always be a solid, Marv type, 3 n D forward. He will be easier to trade than Rozier who is an undersized scoring guard.

Exactly, I can't put Terry and PJ in the same category because one is a high volume spammer who plays no defense and only does one thing while the other is versatile, defends well, is clutch and does several things on both ends. PJ is also slightly undersized but has proven he can play both PF and C guarding players taller than him when called upon. If I could have one of them at $20m/yr I'd easily pick PJ.