Klay Thompson on the list of ATG SGs

[durantbird]

In the top 100 project, Klay was not included.

SGs who were included before him:
1. MJ
2. Kobe
3. Wade
4. Harden
5. Gervin
6. Drexler
7. Reggie
8. Ray
9. Manu
10. Sam Jones
11. Iverson
12. Vince
13. Greer
14. Moncrief
15. Hornacek

I consider West as PG, Havlicek as SF.

Where would he be included in a more comprehensive SG list?

[Cavsfansince84]

Roughly Hornacek level is where I'd have him. Maybe lower than that tbh. Worth noting that Klay only has 6-7 real prime seasons banked so far and despite being thought of as an atg 3 pt shooter only has 4 seasons with ts add above 50 due in part to an extremely low ftr(career avg of 2.2 ftapg).

[lessthanjake]

I’m pretty low on Klay to be honest. He’s a really good shooter, but he cannot really create a shot for himself—with about 70% of his 2-point FGs and over 90% of his three-point FGs being assisted. Those are role-player numbers! The fact that he can’t create for himself also means that he barely ever draws fouls and struggles to create any shots for himself around the rim. The result is that, even if he is a great three-point shooter, his TS% isn’t actually all that great. And his production goes notably down in the playoffs. He’s streaky, so there are times where he is incredibly good (and people tend to remember those), but the flip side is that there’s times where he’s incredibly bad. His defense was definitely good in his prime (not so much now), but he wasn’t exactly a super elite defender.

If we are measuring “greatness” then he’s probably up there somewhere, just by virtue of the team achievements he has in the game. But in terms of raw quality as a player, there’s a whole lot of players I’d put above Klay.

[Colbinii]

Around Eddie Jones ranking.

[SHAQ32]

He's like the Joe Dumars of the 2010/20s

[oaktownwarriors87]

He has a good argument over 14 & 15. After that the list gets rough.

[MiamiBulls]

Klay Thompson's biggest issue in the Regular Season is similar to James Worthy. He is a higher volume shooter who struggles mightily to draw fouls which makes it difficult for him to muster up more advantageous overall Scoring Efficiency when the volume of his field goal attempts increases.

Klay Thompson is also a notable Playoffs dropper; his Scoring Rate and Efficiency craters in the Playoffs.

[HeartBreakKid]

Him getting dubbed as the "splash brother" when people were recognizing how great Curry was has made the general public think he is better than he is. Like, people think Klay is closer to a superstar then just an all-star because of that association.

I agree with Corb, he is like an Eddie Jones type of player, just more celebrated and culturally relevant than he was.

I would add Paul Westphal to that top 15 list which would pretty much mean Klay is not a top 15 SG. He is def not a top 100 player.

[eminence]

My first thought was: not on it. I'm not sure how far down a list I'd go to get Klay onto it, never really thought of positional lists past the top 5-10. Solid argument he was 4th or lower on the Warriors through most of his career (Steph/Dray obviously, then Iguodala/KD now Wiggins/Looney).

Is his career significantly more impressive than Donovan Mitchells?

[AEnigma]

I could see him top 100, but shooting guard is the weakest position historically, so being 15-20 on that list does not guarantee anything. Agree with the Eddie Jones and Joe Dumars comparisons. Would have him above Greer and Hornacek (while I am willing to split some difference with top three to five players across eras, I am a lot less willing for top twenty to thirty players across eras). Westphal is interesting as a more notable peak, but there again, probably just on par for me.

The general public has often overrated him (specifically relative to Draymond) but I think this forum has too frequently underrated him in reaction. Strong third piece and essential member of that core trio, and for all their efforts, the Warriors have never actually been able to put together a suitable replacement for what he provides as the sport’s most potentially explosive and defensive-attention-drawing 3&D player.

[SpreeS]

Klay Klay Klay….need to divide from 2 or 3 what you think about him to get his real impact. Klay hype was huge after OKC/TOR series, 3P and Q pts records…but after all the rest 98% of his career was avarage.

Houston, Rip Hamilton, Monroe, Goodrich, Alvin Robertson, Pete Maravich, Richmond, Scharman, David Thompson, Sprewell would be good comparison for him

[Samurai]

Klay Thompson's biggest issue in the Regular Season is similar to James Worthy. He is a higher volume shooter who struggles mightily to draw fouls which makes it difficult for him to muster up more advantageous overall Scoring Efficiency when the volume of his field goal attempts increases.

Similar to Worthy? Klay never reached a 0.2 FTr while Worthy topped that for 8 consecutive seasons with a high of .322 in 87. Which makes sense since Worthy was most dangerous driving to the rim or filling a lane on the fast break where you are more likely to draw a foul while Klay is most dangerous beyond the arc. Klay's best TS% was .598 and Worthy topped 60% twice. They were close but peak and prime Worthy has the edge because he drew a few more fouls than Klay.

[nate33]

I’m pretty low on Klay to be honest. He’s a really good shooter, but he cannot really create a shot for himself—with about 70% of his 2-point FGs and over 90% of his three-point FGs being assisted. Those are role-player numbers! The fact that he can’t create for himself also means that he barely ever draws fouls and struggles to create any shots for himself around the rim. The result is that, even if he is a great three-point shooter, his TS% isn’t actually all that great. And his production goes notably down in the playoffs. He’s streaky, so there are times where he is incredibly good (and people tend to remember those), but the flip side is that there’s times where he’s incredibly bad. His defense was definitely good in his prime (not so much now), but he wasn’t exactly a super elite defender.

This is all true, he can't really create off the bounce or in any type of iso situation. But one must also factor that he is possibly the second best ever (behind Curry) at getting up 3-point shots in volume while off ball. That's not just lucking into being on an elite Golden State team. Klay has one of the fastest releases ever, and his release point is really high. As soon as he catches the ball, that shot is off, even with a guy right in his face. And that quick-release, coupled with great range and accuracy, is a big reason why the Warriors could torture teams with their spacing despite often playing with two non-shooters. I think a case can be made that his off ball gravity as an elite, quick-release catch-and-shoot guy is actually more valuable than him being a competent shot creator off the dribble like Hornacek or Moncrief.

Klay Thompson averaging 8 3PA's/game (in just 33 minutes) at a 42% clip over a 7-season stretch is unprecedented for an off ball player. Nobody else comes close. Ray Allen's best stretch was 7.5 3PAs per game while playing 20% more minutes (and handling the ball a bit more). Guys like Korver and Redick were lucky to average 6 3PA's/game in their best seasons. So Klay was more prolific than even the best shooting specialists, and he was also a plus defender at the other end of the floor.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Probably depends on how you view him defensively. For me he gets a bit lazy off ball but his on ball D (throughout his prime) was really good, so I think that’s more valuable than his actual defensive impact however it was

Offensively in a normal situation he’s probably a highly effecient 25ppg off ball scorer that can’t create his own shot

[HeartBreakKid]

Probably depends on how you view him defensively. For me he gets a bit lazy off ball but his on ball D (throughout his prime) was really good, so I think that’s more valuable than his actual defensive impact however it was

Offensively in a normal situation he’s probably a highly effecient 25ppg off ball scorer that can’t create his own shot

Highly efficient? He's not even highly efficient in reality. He is a good shooter but if he was the #1 option his efficiency would plummet. He technically has never cracked 60 TS% in an era where that is pretty common among great shooters and scorers. In the post season he is a league average scorer at best.

He would not look very good at all if he played on a lesser team. If he was the best player/scorer on many teams they would likely be 8th-10th seed type of teams and his scoring would look ugly in the playoffs.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Probably depends on how you view him defensively. For me he gets a bit lazy off ball but his on ball D (throughout his prime) was really good, so I think that’s more valuable than his actual defensive impact however it was

Offensively in a normal situation he’s probably a highly effecient 25ppg off ball scorer that can’t create his own shot

Highly efficient? He's not even highly efficient in reality. He is a good shooter but if he was the #1 option his efficiency would plummet. He technically has never cracked 60 TS% in an era where that is pretty common among great shooters and scorers. In the post season he is a league average scorer at best.

He would not look very good at all if he played on a lesser team. If he was the best player/scorer on many teams they would likely be 8th-10th seed type of teams and his scoring would look ugly in the playoffs.

Cracking 60TS on over 20ppg isn’t common during that 2015-2019 period before he got his injuries lol. Klay shot profile as a number 1 option doesnt change that much because outside of some post ups he’s not gonna be running the offense or anything as much as being an off ball option or a post option anyways.

Klay stats without Curry, when KD wasn’t on the team

60.2+31.5+67.1+45.2+(61*8)
2015
39 points, 60.2TS

2016
10 points, 31.5TS
38 points, 67.1TS
26 points, 45.2TS

8 games in the playoffs (Curry played the first half of g1 and g4)
27.0 ppg, 61.0 TS

2022
13 points, 46.4TS (23 minutes)

(8 games)
28.0ppg, 59.3TS

2023
22 points, 42.5TS

(8 games)
26ppg, 56.6TS

(11 games)
27.1ppg, 63.9TS


Overall 26.7ppg on 58.8TS in 41 games

Taking out the 22 minute game
27ppg/59.0TS


The numbers aren’t good with the KD warriors from what I remember but he’s not the first option then anyway, but I could definately see him at his peak averaging 24-25ppg on 57-58TS, which is effecient lol. I don’t think anyone’s expecting him to be like a top 10 guy or anything he’s not near that

Calling him a league average scorer in the playoffs at best is just flat out stupid when hes at around 20ppg and is above league average playoff TS every year in his prime except 2017, before his injury, lmao

[Warriors Analyst]

Roughly Hornacek level is where I'd have him. Maybe lower than that tbh. Worth noting that Klay only has 6-7 real prime seasons banked so far and despite being thought of as an atg 3 pt shooter only has 4 seasons with ts add above 50 due in part to an extremely low ftr(career avg of 2.2 ftapg).

Why not use EFG in this instance to get a more accurate description of Klay? He's an ATG shooter. That's not up for debate. He's simply not an ATG scorer, which lines up better with his meh TS%.

[Cavsfansince84]

Why not use EFG in this instance to get a more accurate description of Klay? He's an ATG shooter. That's not up for debate. He's simply not an ATG scorer, which lines up better with his meh TS%.

Because I'm not arguing whether or not he's an atg level shooter. What I'm saying is that his atg level shooting doesn't translate to a high level of ts add like it does for many other atg level shooters due to his low ftr. I thought I made this abundantly clear in my post.

[parsnips33]

There's obviously a lot of holes in his game, things he can't do that others have pointed out

But the things that he could do at a very high to elite level in his prime - shooting, off-ball movement, on-ball and multi-positional defense - make him extremely valuable in certain environments

Now how does that factor into an all-time rating is a difficult question and probably depends on what the specific criteria are

[homecourtloss]

There's obviously a lot of holes in his game, things he can't do that others have pointed out

But the things that he could do at a very high to elite level in his prime - shooting, off-ball movement, on-ball and multi-positional defense - make him extremely valuable in certain environments

Now how does that factor into an all-time rating is a difficult question and probably depends on what the specific criteria are

This becomes even more true considering he’s only the third or fourth best player from 2014–2019, and probably 4th , 5th, maybe even 6th in 2022. It’s a luxury to have such a player as your 3rd, 4th, 5th, or
6th best player.