Position Battles: SG

[tiderulz]

Herro can’t even get playing time with the Heat. Fultz is already proving his worth in a number of ways, and his shot is coming closer and closer to looking like his college form. He already has his midrange back.

how do you figure? he was the starting SG last year. and will be the starting SG when the season starts, if there isnt a trade.

[Last Guardian]

Miami and Orlando are not trade partners. Herro for Fultz is not remotely plausible simply becasue these are inter divisional opponents.

Divisional opponents has literally nothing to do with it.

Herro for Fultz isn't plausible because Herro is a good player with value and Fultz isn't.

[VFX]

Miami and Orlando are not trade partners. Herro for Fultz is not remotely plausible simply becasue these are inter divisional opponents.

Divisional opponents has literally nothing to do with it.

Herro for Fultz isn't plausible because Herro is a good player with value and Fultz isn't.

Sometimes the truth is funny.

[Audi]

Divisional opponents has literally nothing to do with it.

Herro for Fultz isn't plausible because Herro is a good player with value and Fultz isn't.

Sometimes the truth is funny.

Truth is nobody was talking about Fultz for Herro straight up. Just another example of seizing an opportunity to s*** on Fultz in a thread his name doesn't even belong in.

Par the course. Carry on.

[Bensational]

Lol...not going to sit there and argue about context and projection for the 81st time with ya. But i guess we will see next season. can't wait for this to start!

I like Herro as a player and a prospect, I think he has that big shot swagger about him.

It’s interesting that Fultz is fractionally more efficient than him as a scorer. If Fultz took the same amount of shots he’s average 21ppg if he maintained his current efficiency, and that’s without a 3pt shot or high volume FTs.

Herro is still the kind of guy we’ll need at SG eventually, IMO. That guy who’s the clutch threat to hit a dagger 3. I’d love it if Suggs became that guy, but maybe it’ll be Howard or someone completely different?

I don’t like efficiency as a primary thing to look at when you need scoring. The 50 most efficient players in the league are all offensive scrubs, except for Sabonis and Zion, and none of them are guards. I don’t like scorers that are wildly inefficient because that often points to forcing shots and selfish play…give me a real shooter all day. Fultz is great at dribbling through traffic and finishing at the rim…I’m just dumbstruck wondering why he doesn’t get to the line more-considering his style of play…3’s and free throws are like collecting interest on your scoring effort. Herro is an entirely different level of scorer.

Efficiency on high volume is what separates the contenders from the scrubs though. To me that’s the biggest X factor of all to pursue. You get an efficient lead scorer who can give you the most points on the fewest attempts and you’re already in a better position than most teams.

I wasn’t clear in my post but the efficiency comment should be seen as a plus for Herro. Fultz is highly efficient for the kind of shots he takes, but Herro is doing that on more volume and from 3. I really like him and his game.

There’s no trade that would bring in Herro and send out Fultz if they’re bringing back Dame. Cole is probably a better fit for Miami, but Portland are going to want forwards and bigs since their backcourt is stacked with youth as is.

[J the Drafter]

Herro can’t even get playing time with the Heat. Fultz is already proving his worth in a number of ways, and his shot is coming closer and closer to looking like his college form. He already has his midrange back.

how do you figure? he was the starting SG last year. and will be the starting SG when the season starts, if there isnt a trade.

Wasn’t he behind Strus? Or did I confuse Herro with Duncan Robinson?

[Bensational]

Herro can’t even get playing time with the Heat. Fultz is already proving his worth in a number of ways, and his shot is coming closer and closer to looking like his college form. He already has his midrange back.

how do you figure? he was the starting SG last year. and will be the starting SG when the season starts, if there isnt a trade.

Wasn’t he behind Strus? Or did I confuse Herro with Duncan Robinson?

Robinson. He was benched for most of last season. Herro has either been a starter or 6th man for them for most of his career.

[Last Guardian]

Divisional opponents has literally nothing to do with it.

Herro for Fultz isn't plausible because Herro is a good player with value and Fultz isn't.

Sometimes the truth is funny.

Stupidity is always funny

[yoyojw17]

Lol...not going to sit there and argue about context and projection for the 81st time with ya. But i guess we will see next season. can't wait for this to start!

I like Herro as a player and a prospect, I think he has that big shot swagger about him.

It’s interesting that Fultz is fractionally more efficient than him as a scorer. If Fultz took the same amount of shots he’s average 21ppg if he maintained his current efficiency, and that’s without a 3pt shot or high volume FTs.

Herro is still the kind of guy we’ll need at SG eventually, IMO. That guy who’s the clutch threat to hit a dagger 3. I’d love it if Suggs became that guy, but maybe it’ll be Howard or someone completely different?

I don’t like efficiency as a primary thing to look at when you need scoring. The 50 most efficient players in the league are all offensive scrubs, except for Sabonis and Zion, and none of them are guards. I don’t like scorers that are wildly inefficient because that often points to forcing shots and selfish play…give me a real shooter all day. Fultz is great at dribbling through traffic and finishing at the rim…I’m just dumbstruck wondering why he doesn’t get to the line more-considering his style of play…3’s and free throws are like collecting interest on your scoring effort. Herro is an entirely different level of scorer.

See the thing is... Tyler put up numbers....but how does he truly impact the game.

Year ORtg DRtg
2019 103 112
2020 104 113
2021 107 111
2022 109 115

Awesome... and this was on a championship inspired team with 2 all star players.

I know markelle is NOT where he wants to be in his progression and that there is still much to show and grow.

Now....this isn't hate against Herro... If available for a good price... i would honestly be open. I just think the most valuable player in the discussion was fultz... and yet here we were adding players and picks for Herro. Love Cole... but if you swap him out for fultz.... i would be more open... but at the same time, I'm perfectly fine with keeping the band together till the deadline. The best yet to come

[pepe1991]

I like Herro as a player and a prospect, I think he has that big shot swagger about him.

It’s interesting that Fultz is fractionally more efficient than him as a scorer. If Fultz took the same amount of shots he’s average 21ppg if he maintained his current efficiency, and that’s without a 3pt shot or high volume FTs.

Herro is still the kind of guy we’ll need at SG eventually, IMO. That guy who’s the clutch threat to hit a dagger 3. I’d love it if Suggs became that guy, but maybe it’ll be Howard or someone completely different?

I don’t like efficiency as a primary thing to look at when you need scoring. The 50 most efficient players in the league are all offensive scrubs, except for Sabonis and Zion, and none of them are guards. I don’t like scorers that are wildly inefficient because that often points to forcing shots and selfish play…give me a real shooter all day. Fultz is great at dribbling through traffic and finishing at the rim…I’m just dumbstruck wondering why he doesn’t get to the line more-considering his style of play…3’s and free throws are like collecting interest on your scoring effort. Herro is an entirely different level of scorer.

See the thing is... Tyler put up numbers....but how does he truly impact the game.

Year ORtg DRtg
2019 103 112
2020 104 113
2021 107 111
2022 109 115

Awesome... and this was on a championship inspired team with 2 all star players.

I know markelle is NOT where he wants to be in his progression and that there is still much to show and grow.

Now....this isn't hate against Herro... If available for a good price... i would honestly be open. I just think the most valuable player in the discussion was fultz... and yet here we were adding players and picks for Herro. Love Cole... but if you swap him out for fultz.... i would be more open... but at the same time, I'm perfectly fine with keeping the band together till the deadline. The best yet to come

Those numbers sucks. Especially when they are false

Herro vs Fultz

2022-23: Herro offensive rating 113,9- defensive rating 111,3--- Fultz offensive rating 110, def rating 114
2021-22 off rating 113,4 , def rating 108--------------------------- Fultz offensive rating 104,7 - def 109
2020-21 off 107,7, def 106,6-------------------------------------------Fultz off rating 107,6 -def 113,6
2019-20 off 107,9, def 109,6-------------------------------------------Fultz off rating 108,8- def 110,5


As you can see, Fultz was only more impactful as player in a year where Herro was 20 and rookie. Herro, talent and production and impact vise, surpassed Fultz in second year ( as i've said in first replay). Fultz also never had season with positive net rating. Unlike Herro.

btw don't use BB reference offensive and defensive rating, their numbers aren't "real" offensive & defensive rating and aren't accurate.

[Skybox]

I like Herro as a player and a prospect, I think he has that big shot swagger about him.

It’s interesting that Fultz is fractionally more efficient than him as a scorer. If Fultz took the same amount of shots he’s average 21ppg if he maintained his current efficiency, and that’s without a 3pt shot or high volume FTs.

Herro is still the kind of guy we’ll need at SG eventually, IMO. That guy who’s the clutch threat to hit a dagger 3. I’d love it if Suggs became that guy, but maybe it’ll be Howard or someone completely different?

I don’t like efficiency as a primary thing to look at when you need scoring. The 50 most efficient players in the league are all offensive scrubs, except for Sabonis and Zion, and none of them are guards. I don’t like scorers that are wildly inefficient because that often points to forcing shots and selfish play…give me a real shooter all day. Fultz is great at dribbling through traffic and finishing at the rim…I’m just dumbstruck wondering why he doesn’t get to the line more-considering his style of play…3’s and free throws are like collecting interest on your scoring effort. Herro is an entirely different level of scorer.

Efficiency on high volume is what separates the contenders from the scrubs though. To me that’s the biggest X factor of all to pursue. You get an efficient lead scorer who can give you the most points on the fewest attempts and you’re already in a better position than most teams.

I wasn’t clear in my post but the efficiency comment should be seen as a plus for Herro. Fultz is highly efficient for the kind of shots he takes, but Herro is doing that on more volume and from 3. I really like him and his game.

There’s no trade that would bring in Herro and send out Fultz if they’re bringing back Dame. Cole is probably a better fit for Miami, but Portland are going to want forwards and bigs since their backcourt is stacked with youth as is.

I figured POR would want picks and expiring filler (along with either Jacquez or Jovic. We give them stuff to pass on to POR as part of their offer.

[fendilim]

Is Herro worth the salary extension?

And do we really need him when we already drafted Jett? If Jett’s game translates to the NBA, I think he’ll be better than Tyler.

[yoyojw17]

I don’t like efficiency as a primary thing to look at when you need scoring. The 50 most efficient players in the league are all offensive scrubs, except for Sabonis and Zion, and none of them are guards. I don’t like scorers that are wildly inefficient because that often points to forcing shots and selfish play…give me a real shooter all day. Fultz is great at dribbling through traffic and finishing at the rim…I’m just dumbstruck wondering why he doesn’t get to the line more-considering his style of play…3’s and free throws are like collecting interest on your scoring effort. Herro is an entirely different level of scorer.

See the thing is... Tyler put up numbers....but how does he truly impact the game.

Year ORtg DRtg
2019 103 112
2020 104 113
2021 107 111
2022 109 115

Awesome... and this was on a championship inspired team with 2 all star players.

I know markelle is NOT where he wants to be in his progression and that there is still much to show and grow.

Now....this isn't hate against Herro... If available for a good price... i would honestly be open. I just think the most valuable player in the discussion was fultz... and yet here we were adding players and picks for Herro. Love Cole... but if you swap him out for fultz.... i would be more open... but at the same time, I'm perfectly fine with keeping the band together till the deadline. The best yet to come

Those numbers sucks. Especially when they are false

Herro vs Fultz

2022-23: Herro offensive rating 113,9- defensive rating 111,3--- Fultz offensive rating 110, def rating 114
2021-22 off rating 113,4 , def rating 108--------------------------- Fultz offensive rating 104,7 - def 109
2020-21 off 107,7, def 106,6-------------------------------------------Fultz off rating 107,6 -def 113,6
2019-20 off 107,9, def 109,6-------------------------------------------Fultz off rating 108,8- def 110,5


As you can see, Fultz was only more impactful as player in a year where Herro was 20 and rookie. Herro, talent and production and impact vise, surpassed Fultz in second year ( as i've said in first replay). Fultz also never had season with positive net rating. Unlike Herro.

btw don't use BB reference offensive and defensive rating, their numbers aren't "real" offensive & defensive rating and aren't accurate.

Why is it incorrect? legit question. If so... good to know.

[pepe1991]

See the thing is... Tyler put up numbers....but how does he truly impact the game.

Year ORtg DRtg
2019 103 112
2020 104 113
2021 107 111
2022 109 115

Awesome... and this was on a championship inspired team with 2 all star players.

I know markelle is NOT where he wants to be in his progression and that there is still much to show and grow.

Now....this isn't hate against Herro... If available for a good price... i would honestly be open. I just think the most valuable player in the discussion was fultz... and yet here we were adding players and picks for Herro. Love Cole... but if you swap him out for fultz.... i would be more open... but at the same time, I'm perfectly fine with keeping the band together till the deadline. The best yet to come

Those numbers sucks. Especially when they are false

Herro vs Fultz

2022-23: Herro offensive rating 113,9- defensive rating 111,3--- Fultz offensive rating 110, def rating 114
2021-22 off rating 113,4 , def rating 108--------------------------- Fultz offensive rating 104,7 - def 109
2020-21 off 107,7, def 106,6-------------------------------------------Fultz off rating 107,6 -def 113,6
2019-20 off 107,9, def 109,6-------------------------------------------Fultz off rating 108,8- def 110,5


As you can see, Fultz was only more impactful as player in a year where Herro was 20 and rookie. Herro, talent and production and impact vise, surpassed Fultz in second year ( as i've said in first replay). Fultz also never had season with positive net rating. Unlike Herro.

btw don't use BB reference offensive and defensive rating, their numbers aren't "real" offensive & defensive rating and aren't accurate.

Why is it incorrect? legit question. If so... good to know.

Their carculation for player's rating is simply different from nba.com.

NBA.com has exact possession statistics. Bball ref approximates them.

[yoyojw17]

Those numbers sucks. Especially when they are false

Herro vs Fultz

2022-23: Herro offensive rating 113,9- defensive rating 111,3--- Fultz offensive rating 110, def rating 114
2021-22 off rating 113,4 , def rating 108--------------------------- Fultz offensive rating 104,7 - def 109
2020-21 off 107,7, def 106,6-------------------------------------------Fultz off rating 107,6 -def 113,6
2019-20 off 107,9, def 109,6-------------------------------------------Fultz off rating 108,8- def 110,5


As you can see, Fultz was only more impactful as player in a year where Herro was 20 and rookie. Herro, talent and production and impact vise, surpassed Fultz in second year ( as i've said in first replay). Fultz also never had season with positive net rating. Unlike Herro.

btw don't use BB reference offensive and defensive rating, their numbers aren't "real" offensive & defensive rating and aren't accurate.

Why is it incorrect? legit question. If so... good to know.

Their carculation for player's rating is simply different from nba.com.

NBA.com has exact possession statistics. Bball ref approximates them.

Sup bro. Actually looked into it quickly yesterday. If I remember correctly, apparently reference looks at the offensive and defensive rating generated by the player themselves in 100 possessions.... Vs. NBA.com which evaluated the team rating in 100 possessions.

So... It just has two different definitions

[Howard Mass]

Suggs needs to start this year.

[drsd]

Suggs needs to start this year.

Is this your depth chart?

Fultz/Anthony/Black
Suggs/G-Harris/Howard
F-Wagner/Ingles/Houstan
Banchero/Isaac/Okeke
Carter/M-Wagner/Bitadze

[Skybox]

how do you figure? he was the starting SG last year. and will be the starting SG when the season starts, if there isnt a trade.

Wasn’t he behind Strus? Or did I confuse Herro with Duncan Robinson?

Robinson. He was benched for most of last season. Herro has either been a starter or 6th man for them for most of his career.

Not just 6th man, 6th man of the year in 2022, scoring 20+ ppg…he’s very capable of running the offense like a PG, so not starting is certainly not some kind of knock on his game…it was strictly strategic. He wasn’t “benched”. He would not be part of the crowd in ORL’s backcourt stew…he’d be the best guard on our roster day 1 and immediately part of a very young, very promising, very complimentary “Big 3” for years…he could also let Suggs or Black live their best NBA lives as perfect fits next to him…they would flourish as lockdown defenders, ball movers and opportunistic scorers with Paolo & Herro drawing so much defensive attention. I didn’t forget Franz…he’d also flourish.

[eyriq]

Wisdom of the masses is prevailing

[JoshuaPotter]

Wisdom of the masses is prevailing

Do the masses actually include the coach?