Raps worth over 1B more than Leafs/Jays.

[maternal85]

I think there's only so much the commissioner can do. The sport is limited by other factors, especially globally. You need ice, you can't really play outside in most climates, there is an insane amount of equipment required, etc. Hockey is popular in Canada because it's ingrained in the culture (like football in the US). Problem is, Canada is 1/10th the size of the US.

F1 is was actually a pretty great comparison. It's a sport that most of the viewers can't play but people still enjoy. F1 blew up in NA after the Netflix show that allowed them to better market their drivers. NHL could consider going this route internationally to make the sport more exciting for people who'll never play it.

Pretty great this article came out right after Bettman left the NBA for the NHL. https://vault.si.com/vault/1994/06/20/hot-not. The NHL was right there with the NBA for a very long time. Granted demographics have changed a lot, winter sports and rink time and equipment costs hurt, but hockey could have done a lot more to evolve with them. It just steadfastly refuses to. Sure its probably never a huge sport in Africa/South America/Southern Asia etc with ice requirements, but Europe and North America has more than enough room for success. They just suck at it. And Bettman is the leader of that suck.

There is a systemic cultural problem with hockey mainly that it continues to carry some sort of racist undertone. There is no excuse for the lack of diversity in the league especially considering the diaspora of immigrants are a generation Further along and massive amount of wealth exists there (ie its not an affordability issue as much anymore). This goes deeper than bettman although its probably best.of the league he goes away.

People are beating around the bush, or are too privileged to experience it. Hockey isn't as successful simply due to its racism. Point blank. I don't follow the NHL like the NBA, but just look at the incidents off the top of my head.

PK was called the N word, and I believe someone threw a banana on the ice at him during a pre-season game.

Black players have been regularly called the N word by their fellow players during games on the ice.

Coach Peter's in Calgary told the black player (forgot his name) to turn off that N music. And none of his teammates came to his aid. Without witnesses they would have gaslighted him and said he was just playing the race card when he came out.

The NHL is taking away the warm up jerseys supporting minority groups, particularly the LGBT community.

PK little brother being called a monkey on the ice, while the whole stadium shouts the N word at him.

Don Cherry saying "you people" referring that visible minorities didn't contribute to WW2, or the development of Canada. And only the Caucasian race are some saints who are the hardest working people on earth.

And so on. Have you ever been to an NHL game as a minority? The looks you get, as you know People are saying in their heads "why is he here".

All these things are just excuses. People spend billions, if not trillions on sports every year. Whether watching it live, or participating in it. The racism is simply not worth it at the end of the day. A minority is not spending thousands of dollars on equipment, fees to join certain leagues, just for their kids to be called the N on a regular basis. No way.

[Mak]

Pretty great this article came out right after Bettman left the NBA for the NHL. https://vault.si.com/vault/1994/06/20/hot-not. The NHL was right there with the NBA for a very long time. Granted demographics have changed a lot, winter sports and rink time and equipment costs hurt, but hockey could have done a lot more to evolve with them. It just steadfastly refuses to. Sure its probably never a huge sport in Africa/South America/Southern Asia etc with ice requirements, but Europe and North America has more than enough room for success. They just suck at it. And Bettman is the leader of that suck.

There is a systemic cultural problem with hockey mainly that it continues to carry some sort of racist undertone. There is no excuse for the lack of diversity in the league especially considering the diaspora of immigrants are a generation Further along and massive amount of wealth exists there (ie its not an affordability issue as much anymore). This goes deeper than bettman although its probably best.of the league he goes away.

People are beating around the bush, or are too privileged to experience it. Hockey isn't as successful simply due to its racism. Point blank. I don't follow the NHL like the NBA, but just look at the incidents off the top of my head.

PK was called the N word, and I believe someone threw a banana on the ice at him during a pre-season game.

Black players have been regularly called the N word by their fellow players during games on the ice.

Coach Peter's in Calgary told the black player (forgot his name) to turn off that N music. And none of his teammates came to his aid. Without witnesses they would have gaslighted him and said he was just playing the race card when he came out.

The NHL is taking away the warm up jerseys supporting minority groups, particularly the LGBT community.

PK little brother being called a monkey on the ice, while the whole stadium shouts the N word at him.

Don Cherry saying "you people" referring that visible minorities didn't contribute to WW2, or the development of Canada. And only the Caucasian race are some saints who are the hardest working people on earth.

And so on. Have you ever been to an NHL game as a minority? The looks you get, as you know People are saying in their heads "why is he here".

All these things are just excuses. People spend billions, if not trillions on sports every year. Whether watching it live, or participating in it. The racism is simply not worth it at the end of the day. A minority is not spending thousands of dollars on equipment, fees to join certain leagues, just for their kids to be called the N on a regular basis. No way.

Hockey is just more of a regional sport in US, people just dont love it as much. This has always been the case, I dont think it is because of racism. I doubt many are even aware of this. Hockey is just not popular.

Soccer/Football has even bigger problems with racism and its doing just fine.

[sbsat]

There is a systemic cultural problem with hockey mainly that it continues to carry some sort of racist undertone. There is no excuse for the lack of diversity in the league especially considering the diaspora of immigrants are a generation Further along and massive amount of wealth exists there (ie its not an affordability issue as much anymore). This goes deeper than bettman although its probably best.of the league he goes away.

People are beating around the bush, or are too privileged to experience it. Hockey isn't as successful simply due to its racism. Point blank. I don't follow the NHL like the NBA, but just look at the incidents off the top of my head.

PK was called the N word, and I believe someone threw a banana on the ice at him during a pre-season game.

Black players have been regularly called the N word by their fellow players during games on the ice.

Coach Peter's in Calgary told the black player (forgot his name) to turn off that N music. And none of his teammates came to his aid. Without witnesses they would have gaslighted him and said he was just playing the race card when he came out.

The NHL is taking away the warm up jerseys supporting minority groups, particularly the LGBT community.

PK little brother being called a monkey on the ice, while the whole stadium shouts the N word at him.

Don Cherry saying "you people" referring that visible minorities didn't contribute to WW2, or the development of Canada. And only the Caucasian race are some saints who are the hardest working people on earth.

And so on. Have you ever been to an NHL game as a minority? The looks you get, as you know People are saying in their heads "why is he here".

All these things are just excuses. People spend billions, if not trillions on sports every year. Whether watching it live, or participating in it. The racism is simply not worth it at the end of the day. A minority is not spending thousands of dollars on equipment, fees to join certain leagues, just for their kids to be called the N on a regular basis. No way.

Hockey is just more of a regional sport in US, people just dont love it as much. This has always been the case, I dont think it is because of racism. I doubt many are even aware of this. Hockey is just not popular.

Soccer/Football has even bigger problems with racism and its doing just fine.

Theres most definitely racism in hockey just look at the lack of diversity in the professional ranks globally.

[maternal85]

There is a systemic cultural problem with hockey mainly that it continues to carry some sort of racist undertone. There is no excuse for the lack of diversity in the league especially considering the diaspora of immigrants are a generation Further along and massive amount of wealth exists there (ie its not an affordability issue as much anymore). This goes deeper than bettman although its probably best.of the league he goes away.

People are beating around the bush, or are too privileged to experience it. Hockey isn't as successful simply due to its racism. Point blank. I don't follow the NHL like the NBA, but just look at the incidents off the top of my head.

PK was called the N word, and I believe someone threw a banana on the ice at him during a pre-season game.

Black players have been regularly called the N word by their fellow players during games on the ice.

Coach Peter's in Calgary told the black player (forgot his name) to turn off that N music. And none of his teammates came to his aid. Without witnesses they would have gaslighted him and said he was just playing the race card when he came out.

The NHL is taking away the warm up jerseys supporting minority groups, particularly the LGBT community.

PK little brother being called a monkey on the ice, while the whole stadium shouts the N word at him.

Don Cherry saying "you people" referring that visible minorities didn't contribute to WW2, or the development of Canada. And only the Caucasian race are some saints who are the hardest working people on earth.

And so on. Have you ever been to an NHL game as a minority? The looks you get, as you know People are saying in their heads "why is he here".

All these things are just excuses. People spend billions, if not trillions on sports every year. Whether watching it live, or participating in it. The racism is simply not worth it at the end of the day. A minority is not spending thousands of dollars on equipment, fees to join certain leagues, just for their kids to be called the N on a regular basis. No way.

Hockey is just more of a regional sport in US, people just dont love it as much. This has always been the case, I dont think it is because of racism. I doubt many are even aware of this. Hockey is just not popular.

Soccer/Football has even bigger problems with racism and its doing just fine.

No, it's the racism. Look at the demographics in the US cities where hockey is popular. It's subjective if you think Soccer/Football has a bigger race issue. But at least those sports theirs some outlets which can help you. Hockey you're on your own.

[Mattd97]

All these things are just excuses. People spend billions, if not trillions on sports every year. Whether watching it live, or participating in it. The racism is simply not worth it at the end of the day. A minority is not spending thousands of dollars on equipment, fees to join certain leagues, just for their kids to be called the N on a regular basis. No way.

Hockey definitely has a big problem with its culture, including racism.

But Im not sure its lack of popularity in rural white towns in Alabama is due to its racism.

[Mak]

People are beating around the bush, or are too privileged to experience it. Hockey isn't as successful simply due to its racism. Point blank. I don't follow the NHL like the NBA, but just look at the incidents off the top of my head.

PK was called the N word, and I believe someone threw a banana on the ice at him during a pre-season game.

Black players have been regularly called the N word by their fellow players during games on the ice.

Coach Peter's in Calgary told the black player (forgot his name) to turn off that N music. And none of his teammates came to his aid. Without witnesses they would have gaslighted him and said he was just playing the race card when he came out.

The NHL is taking away the warm up jerseys supporting minority groups, particularly the LGBT community.

PK little brother being called a monkey on the ice, while the whole stadium shouts the N word at him.

Don Cherry saying "you people" referring that visible minorities didn't contribute to WW2, or the development of Canada. And only the Caucasian race are some saints who are the hardest working people on earth.

And so on. Have you ever been to an NHL game as a minority? The looks you get, as you know People are saying in their heads "why is he here".

All these things are just excuses. People spend billions, if not trillions on sports every year. Whether watching it live, or participating in it. The racism is simply not worth it at the end of the day. A minority is not spending thousands of dollars on equipment, fees to join certain leagues, just for their kids to be called the N on a regular basis. No way.

Hockey is just more of a regional sport in US, people just dont love it as much. This has always been the case, I dont think it is because of racism. I doubt many are even aware of this. Hockey is just not popular.

Soccer/Football has even bigger problems with racism and its doing just fine.

Theres most definitely racism in hockey just look at the lack of diversity in the professional ranks globally.

I'm not disputing racism in hockey, I just don't think its not popular because of that.

[ItsDanger]

Anyone who thinks the Pacers are worth more than the Jays is out of their minds. The merch/tv money doesn't match a national team's 160 game advertising revenue with much bigger audience. This list is utter trash. Do you realize how much time it would take to compile valuations for all these teams accurately? Nobody is going to do it for some online article that's for sure.

[Mak]

No, it's the racism. Look at the demographics in the US cities where hockey is popular. It's subjective if you think Soccer/Football has a bigger race issue. But at least those sports theirs some outlets which can help you. Hockey you're on your own.

Can you expand on that? What do you see in terms of demographics and how does it prove that racism is causing hockey not to be as popular? Where does this happen?

I have been living in US for about 7 years now, never once heard conversations about racism in hockey. You are giving people here too much credit, by implying they stopped watching hockey because of racism.

[OakleyDokely]

Racism/cost/access to rinks could be the reasons why kids don't play hockey, but the bigger concern is why people aren't watching it or following it on a larger scale, at least compared to the other major sports. You don't need to play a sport or be involved directly with it to be interested in it. The NHL does a very poor job attracting the casual fans and it seems they're only interested in catering to hardcore fans.

[sbsat]

Hockey is just more of a regional sport in US, people just dont love it as much. This has always been the case, I dont think it is because of racism. I doubt many are even aware of this. Hockey is just not popular.

Soccer/Football has even bigger problems with racism and its doing just fine.

Theres most definitely racism in hockey just look at the lack of diversity in the professional ranks globally.

I'm not disputing racism in hockey, I just don't think its not popular because of that.

sure but i would say having more diversity in the player pool makes the game more marketable to more ppl. Its a factor.

[ATLTimekeeper]

The lack of personality of their players, which is a combination of hockey culture and the NHL wanting to promote a certain image is a huge problem for them, it's even bigger than access to the sport. This generation follows sports through social media and they have little presence there. Nobody really knows who the top players are unless you're a hardcore fan..

F1 is a sport that 99.99% of the population will never be able to compete in because you need access to millions of dollars, but they've done an amazing job lately promoting their drivers, their teams, their personalities and they've created a soap opera around the sport, much like the NBA does. They're using social media and streaming platforms like Netflix to garner huge fan interest despite the fact you're never driving a racing car at a high level.

Until the NHL figures out that what happens off the ice is as important as what happens on it, they're going to continue to fall behind the major sports and will be passed by others, like MLS.

I mean, in the NHL you have guys literally fighting each other on the ice. I wouldn't say there's a lack of personality or drama. Not everyone can drive an F1 car, but driving is fairly universal, so is racing. Hockey has a very specific skillset. You can't just pick it up anywhere in the world.

I think a big problem with the NHL is that most of the best players are from Canada or Europe. In the NBA, look at how popular American players are v. European. Jokic was like a multi-year MVP winner and U.S. media personalities were just now recognizing that he was actually a great player There are a lot of America stars, but the best player in the league is almost always Canadian, Russian or Swedish. I think only Matthews and Patrick Kane have won Hart trophies. And who the hell would want to market Kane?

[JB7]

The lack of personality of their players, which is a combination of hockey culture and the NHL wanting to promote a certain image is a huge problem for them, it's even bigger than access to the sport. This generation follows sports through social media and they have little presence there. Nobody really knows who the top players are unless you're a hardcore fan..

F1 is a sport that 99.99% of the population will never be able to compete in because you need access to millions of dollars, but they've done an amazing job lately promoting their drivers, their teams, their personalities and they've created a soap opera around the sport, much like the NBA does. They're using social media and streaming platforms like Netflix to garner huge fan interest despite the fact you're never driving a racing car at a high level.

Until the NHL figures out that what happens off the ice is as important as what happens on it, they're going to continue to fall behind the major sports and will be passed by others, like MLS.

I mean, in the NHL you have guys literally fighting each other on the ice. I wouldn't say there's a lack of personality or drama. Not everyone can drive an F1 car, but driving is fairly universal, so is racing. Hockey has a very specific skillset. You can't just pick it up anywhere in the world.

I think a big problem with the NHL is that most of the best players are from Canada or Europe. In the NBA, look at how popular American players are v. European. Jokic was like a multi-year MVP winner and U.S. media personalities were just now recognizing that he was actually a great player There are a lot of America stars, but the best player in the league is almost always Canadian, Russian or Swedish. I think only Matthews and Patrick Kane have won Hart trophies. And who the hell would want to market Kane?

I remember hearing at one time, an article or something mentioned that Patrick Kane's parents invested something like $600,000 US or more in his development. So money can play a huge factor. I heard something similar for Mitch Marner.

[Kordic27]

Doesn't matter the valuations, the one way hate for the leafs is such little brother syndrome.

[Jadoogar]

The lack of personality of their players, which is a combination of hockey culture and the NHL wanting to promote a certain image is a huge problem for them, it's even bigger than access to the sport. This generation follows sports through social media and they have little presence there. Nobody really knows who the top players are unless you're a hardcore fan..

F1 is a sport that 99.99% of the population will never be able to compete in because you need access to millions of dollars, but they've done an amazing job lately promoting their drivers, their teams, their personalities and they've created a soap opera around the sport, much like the NBA does. They're using social media and streaming platforms like Netflix to garner huge fan interest despite the fact you're never driving a racing car at a high level.

Until the NHL figures out that what happens off the ice is as important as what happens on it, they're going to continue to fall behind the major sports and will be passed by others, like MLS.

I mean, in the NHL you have guys literally fighting each other on the ice. I wouldn't say there's a lack of personality or drama. Not everyone can drive an F1 car, but driving is fairly universal, so is racing. Hockey has a very specific skillset. You can't just pick it up anywhere in the world.

Good point, almost everyone has fantasized about flooring it on a highway at some point in their so the racing is relatable to pretty much everyone.

[right between the eyes]

The amount of threads that I've seen turn into a racism debate of late is insane.

Yes there has been well documented racism in hockey but it's not the only reason its popularity is declining. In Canada, people have way more access to other sports than when I was a kid. Also Vince, Masai and our Chip have only helped increase the popularity and how we're seeing a ton of kids playing and guys getting drafted in the NBA. In the US, other than in Northern US cities, hockey just isn't that popular down south. I personally don't find the game very entertaining on TV but it's definitely better in person. I used to be a hockey fan (Oilers) until we started having other options on tv in Canada.(NBA on NBC...)
I remember Fox introducing a puck tracker on TV because Americans were claiming that they couldn't see the puck. Lol

At the end of the day, there is a lot of competition for sports in the states and I'm not just talking about pro sports. College sports are way bigger than in Canada. I almost wouldn't even call hockey a major sport down there anymore. This of course affects franchise valuations.

[ItsDanger]

Who got better ratings? A regular season Raps game or a Jays exhibition game? Advertising revenue is a big factor in these valuations, or should be. NBA benefits from US national TV deal and international revenues (NHL revenue on this end is low) on top of their respective regional markets. I think many of you are making false assessments.

[Harry Palmer]

The NFL chuckles at our little ‘best in show’ contest. Don’t even get me started on real football.

[GQStylin]

Let's be honest. A good amount of hockey players, and even the hockey culture is racists. If everybody was really accepted, the game would grow faster worldwide, and NHL teams would be worth more. Basketball/NBA is more inclusive. That's why the league is blowing up, imo

Absolutely false, but the only reason you're comfortable in saying this is because hockey is still a majority white sport and these days its perfectly acceptable to dump on white people and make derogatory remarks against anything that's predominately white. Would you be saying hockey culture is racist if it were a majority black sport? Of course not because you'd know you'd catch hell from the SJWs and risk your ass being cancelled by them.

Also does anyone really believe that there's absolutely zero racism and discrimination in the NFL, NBA, MLB and other sports and in their minor leagues? Or is it because no one cares to want to look at the problem even if it exists? Heck soccer is probably the sport with the most racism problems to this day especially from many its fans and yet we don't hear much about it. And this doesn't even include the fact that soccer is the only sport where you can go as a fan and be injured or even killed during a game.

Getting back to the issue there's no doubt that there have been some instances of racism in hockey in recent years, but its almost all been in the minor leagues of hockey and pretty much none in the NHL and authorities have dealt with it swiftly. Can anyone name an NHL player that has been accused of racism in recent memory? Not that I can think of. Also its interesting that if anyone bothered to look there have been far more NBA/NFL/MLB athletes that have gotten into trouble for much more serious offenses than have any player in the NHL and yet no one cares about that. Gee I wonder why?

Can't remember the last time an NHL player was disciplined for flashing a gun around, assaulting someone, even murdering someone etc. yet we've seen a number of athletes in other leagues doing these very things and its not a big deal. Again I wonder why?

[GQStylin]

It’s pretty simple. Look at the demographics of our city, North America, most of Western Europe, Latin America, Africa, and Asia…and then look at the demographics of hockey players. Hockey’s issue is it has made no attempt to bring in a more diverse fanbase, which limits its popularity. It has a very rigid and exclusionary culture. And of course it’s very expensive to play, so there’s definitely a factor of existing wealth gaps between demographics, which is another way diverse communities face barriers to the game. Put all this together and the game has failed to grow while the NBA (and MLS) has.

I disagree. Hockey has made many attempts to appeal to a wider audience, but guess what? You can't force people who have never played or watched a game to suddenly enjoy a sport. Either people will start enjoying the sport on their own and get into it or they won't. Soccer still isn't a huge sport in Canada despite many years of promoting it and trying to get more kids to play it on a serious level. Plenty of people play it recreationally, but not as many get into it wanting to be a future pro soccer player though.

I’ve always held that Gary Bettman is a terrible commissioner and his staunch traditionalism is holding back the sport. Are the players still mandated to wear suits to the games or did they relent on that yet?? These aren’t the players of yesteryear. They listen to hip hop and are more integrated into mainstream culture and modes of expression. Social media is a thing. And with that, content creation. Let the players have some charisma about them, some swag. Attract more young people to the game and more demographics.

Not everyone likes to be loud, brash and likes to seek attention at every turn. Maybe that's just a white people thing or also the fact that many hockey players come from small towns and cities and are raised differently with different values. As well maybe the NHL is still living with the ghosts of the Todd Bertuzzi/Steve Moore incident from back in 2004 where drama, trash talking and calls for revenge went too far and ever since then the league has wanted its players and fanbases to tone things down so that there wouldn't be a repeat incident in the future.

Before that incident that in the 80s, 90s and early 2000s there was alot more drama, trash talking and bad blood between fanbases. Back then rivalries got really heated and fanbases actually hated each other. I remember back in the day when the Leafs kept meeting the Sens in the playoffs the Battle of Ontario was huge rivalry in the province and was one of the most hard fought and exciting series to watch everytime they played against each other. These days all my dislike for the Sens is almost gone and I'm actually rooting for them to do well now. LOL

And of course, subsidize community leagues so more kids can play. In short, once hockey takes the stick out of its own ass and makes the game more accessible and relatable it’ll start to see a rise in popularity.

Lets be real. Hockey isn't cheap, but its not a rich person's sport like many people make it out to be. Yes it does require a decent amount of money to fund your child to play hockey at a serious level, but people make it sound like it takes hundreds of thousands of dollars or something.

Do people not realize that many parents who have funded their child's hockey career are probably mostly middle class or poorer? Look at all the Hall of Fame NHL players or even many players active in the league now and you'll see that many of them come from humble beginnings from small towns and cities and their parents aren't exactly rich. The thing is they make sacrifices to save up for their kid's hockey equipment and fees. Maybe they don't buy that new car or go on a vacation for a few years so that they can put their kid through the next level of hockey or buy that new piece of equipment. Its no different than parents saving up to fund their baby's future university/college education.

I don't see why minority families can't do the same if their kids really wanted to get into hockey? Also if we're talking about Asian people or Indians from South Asia, many of those people are among the wealthiest in Canada and guess what? We're not seeing a ton of Asian and Indian kids getting into hockey or any sport for that matter even though they can clearly afford it. Maybe sports just isn't appealing to these demographics of people at least when it comes to playing it on a pro level. Maybe these people are content with just watching sports and being fans rather than playing the game themselves. I've been an NHL fan for decades now and I've never once played ice hockey or ever entertained the idea of getting into playing competitive hockey.

[Harry Palmer]

Absolutely false, but the only reason you're comfortable in saying this is because hockey is still a majority white sport and these days its perfectly acceptable to dump on white people and make derogatory remarks against anything that's predominately white. Would you be saying hockey culture is racist if it were a majority black sport? Of course not because you'd know you'd catch hell from the SJWs and risk your ass being cancelled by them.

Oh, Christ, not this ‘whites are the real victims now’ crap. Do you remember whites or christians being pulled aside for ‘random searches’ at government buildings after OKC? Do you know that when the DOJ finally categorized domestic right-wing extremism/terrorism as A domestic threat they had already in fact been behind the vast majority of terrorist attacks in the US for well over a decade, and the DOJ knew that all along? Remember any decades between 9-11 and Muslim extremists being classified as a domestic threat?

That the perpetrators of hate crimes are overwhelmingly white, and that despite whites comprising ~ 60% of the population, African Americans 12%, the latter represents ~ 50% of hate crime victims and minorities overall 84% and whites, the overwhelming majority of the population, about 16%. I mean, I know murders and other such hate crimes aren’t as serious as casting minorities in written-as-white roles, oh the humanity, but still it’s worth a ponder, no? In much the same way that losing your job for making a racist joke is much more of an injustice than than the fact that being born black makes you 6 times more likely to end up incarcerated than if you were born white. And that being black means a 20-25% increase in sentencing length compared with whites for the exact same crime. Or the fact that you can take the median income of a black household, then raise it by a full half of that number and still be tens of thousands behind the median household income. Or that you are 1/5th more likely to be pulled over by the police if you are a black driver.Or..I could literally go on all night.

This is almost as stupid a concept as the idea that the FBI is weaponized against conservatives/Republicans. My god what an asinine exercise in privilege mitigated = snowflake persecution. Please challenge me on this point, I have so many wonderful facts to share with you. But I know, facts about who is victimized aren’t all that important so long as conservatives/Christians/republicans feel victimized.