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[WOJ] Knicks Extend Hart for 4/81

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Re: [WOJ] Knicks Extend Hart for 4/81 

Post#81 » by GONYK » Thu Aug 10, 2023 9:01 pm

Synciere wrote:
Snacks wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:we plan on operating as an above the cap team for the foreseeable future so the $$$ don't really matter. By not opting out he helped us bring in Donte.

I don't really like this move if this is the team we move forward with. We don't have enough talent.

However, if we do lose significant depth b/c we do address the talent issue (i.e. Joel Embiid, Doncic :roll: ), then any coach would like Donte and Hart as guard/forwards off the bench - even at this price point, especially considering the above post and rising cap.


At some point you can’t keep enough dollars free in order to keep max slots open every year, and it’s not like these guys are waiting to get to free agency. They’re getting their hometown bonuses and then demanding trades, so free agency isn’t the way to go. The Knicks might actually be playing this just right. It’s almost shocking. We don’t have a single contract in the top 50 in the entire league. Just keep adding value contracts that are easily readable and hope we can add talent via trade.


Free agency is dead for stars. They secure their money and then ask out now.

Which makes the Brunson signing even more remarkable.
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Re: [WOJ] Knicks Extend Hart for 4/81 

Post#82 » by Chanel Bomber » Thu Aug 10, 2023 9:03 pm

nedleeds wrote:
robillionaire wrote:rip team tank

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Long live team treadmill!

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With Brunson I think the Knicks have a window to become something more than a treadmill. It's all about opportunity and execution now. Will they succeed? Probably not. The margin for error is thin. But there's a window.
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Re: [WOJ] Knicks Extend Hart for 4/81 

Post#83 » by nedleeds » Thu Aug 10, 2023 9:08 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:
nedleeds wrote:
robillionaire wrote:rip team tank

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Long live team treadmill!

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With Brunson I think the Knicks have a window to become something more than a treadmill. It's all about opportunity and execution now. Will they succeed? Probably not. The margin for error is thin. But there's a window.

It's a nice on brand Peloton treadmill, but a treadmill nonetheless.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/ranking-all-56-traded-future-nba-first-round-picks-kevin-durant-kyrie-irving-trades-shake-up-list/

Not about Hart specifically but Knicks have 53, 42, 33, and 32. Their own treadmill first rounders also.

The glass half full side to Hart is we could trade a younger player if another team actually thinks they're good and not lose depth at the wing. For example, if a team somehow thought RJ was a good prospect trading him would do nothing negative because Hart / Donte would consume his minutes and be the same or better in all likelihood. And we'd presumably be getting a good veteran in return.
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Re: [WOJ] Knicks Extend Hart for 4/81 

Post#84 » by Chanel Bomber » Thu Aug 10, 2023 9:15 pm

nedleeds wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
nedleeds wrote:Long live team treadmill!

Image

With Brunson I think the Knicks have a window to become something more than a treadmill. It's all about opportunity and execution now. Will they succeed? Probably not. The margin for error is thin. But there's a window.

It's a nice on brand Peloton treadmill, but a treadmill nonetheless.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/ranking-all-56-traded-future-nba-first-round-picks-kevin-durant-kyrie-irving-trades-shake-up-list/

Not about Hart specifically but Knicks have 53, 42, 33, and 32. Their own treadmill first rounders also.

The glass half full side to Hart is we could trade a younger player if another team actually thinks they're good and not lose depth at the wing. For example, if a team somehow thought RJ was a good prospect trading him would do nothing negative because Hart / Donte would consume his minutes and be the same or better in all likelihood. And we'd presumably be getting a good veteran in return.

I think that's exactly the point of those signings and extensions - retain as much depth as possible so not to have to rebuild it entirely when they strike the star trade. The worry is that the market for stars who actually fit positionally with Brunson is dry at the moment. But that's just the Knicks' luck.
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Re: [WOJ] Knicks Extend Hart for 4/81 

Post#85 » by god shammgod » Thu Aug 10, 2023 9:27 pm

it all still rests though on getting a top 10 player here somehow. And there's really no reason for me to believe that's gonna happen.
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Re: [WOJ] Knicks Extend Hart for 4/81 

Post#86 » by DrCoach » Thu Aug 10, 2023 9:29 pm

Its funny to see posters try to somehow group the knicks with old regimes

The Knicks are doing a great job and i suspect Brock Aller is the mastermind

We have a solid team and added another solid 2 way player in his prime Donte
Resigned Hart
Brunson, Hart, Donte all in prime and have chemistry
We are not over the cap
We are young with no players over 30 yrs olf
We have chemistry and a culture
We have all our picks PLUS a surplus of others
We beat the Cavs with Mitchell whom many wanted to trade the farm for
We played the heat as well as any team, a Heat team that lost 2 rotation players in Straus $ Vincent
We have no un tradable albatross contracts
We have fournier to trade
No panic moves
No rotation players over 28 yrs old
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Re: [WOJ] Knicks Extend Hart for 4/81 

Post#87 » by Synciere » Thu Aug 10, 2023 10:49 pm

god shammgod wrote:it all still rests though on getting a top 10 player here somehow. And there's really no reason for me to believe that's gonna happen.


I understand this line of thought and history shows it’s true 98% of the time but if you’re not able to get a top ten guy then you almost have to go the Pistons’04 route. In other Words, if we traded RJ for Mikal (of course it won’t happen but work with me) we’d be a contender in my eyes. You can’t just discount being above average at every position and the bench because teams with (multiple) top ten players become top heavy and susceptible to injury. It happens every year. I think we’re closer than we think.
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Re: [WOJ] Knicks Extend Hart for 4/81 

Post#88 » by SelbyCobra » Thu Aug 10, 2023 10:57 pm

Ayo! Hart really did give a hometown discount on the contract. Damn. Literally gave back a full year of control and about $10M by opting in and making the last year of the extension a team option.

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Re: [WOJ] Knicks Extend Hart for 4/81 

Post#89 » by thebuzzardman » Fri Aug 11, 2023 1:17 am

Chanel Bomber wrote:
nedleeds wrote:
robillionaire wrote:rip team tank

Image

Long live team treadmill!

Image

With Brunson I think the Knicks have a window to become something more than a treadmill. It's all about opportunity and execution now. Will they succeed? Probably not. The margin for error is thin. But there's a window.


I think the margin for error is less thin than you may think, but I'm realistic and don't think they have all kinds of directions they can go in. They are like many teams that need to take the next step. At some point they start spending money to retain players/get better and it's more difficult to go from bad to good than it is to go from good to very good. And then even true contender is probably ANOTHER step over that, though two steps could happen at once in the right deal.

I'm personally tired of the "treadmill" vs "tank" vs "2nd place is first loser" stuff or "this isn't a contending team".

Things I've wanted for over 20 years as a Knicks fan:

Another contender - well, that's not the case now, nor may it be. There's only ever 3 or 4 in the league at one time, anyway.

That the team keeps MOST of its picks; isn't pick bereft - pretty much the case. I don't mind teams trading a pick for a good player like Hart. Giving one up for Reddish? I got the strategy. The execution sucked. It happens.
Point is, past Knick front offices handicapped the team's future by trading away far too many picks and hardly drafting at all.
Has this FO been great? If you are a "all should be done via the draft guy" should you be happy? No. But it's solid and it's a start. Maybe. Or Dolan blows it all up in 2 years.

That the team operate under the cap and/or when over, it's not capped out for a long period of time or with players that aren't good. Well, minus some handwringing, Randle, Brunson, RJ, Mitch, Hart, Donte D, soon IQ - I think they are good players, some more movable than others, but hardly being stuck with the likes of Shandon Anderson or Eddy Curry or Jerome James and so on.
Again, not perfect by this FO but not bad.

That the Knicks draft and develop some young players. Mitch, RJ, IQ, Grimes, McBride, even Sims.
Bitch if you want that the Knicks should have drafted two more players, not enough cheap contracts, whatever, this is solid and by KNICK standards absolutely stunning.

That the Knicks had enough assets to at least be in the CONVERSATION to make trades for good players. It used to piss me off when players were on the move and you knew the Knicks had ZERO shot; nothing to offer.
Sure, they dry humped on the D. Mitch trade - for good or ill, depending on someone's side of the argument, but it was nice to be actually IN the discussion.

That the Knicks actually execute a good major trade - TBD

That the Knicks sign a good FA, some good FAs - Yay Brunson! Boo Fournier! Boo Kemba!


I dunno. It's not great. I'm not tickling the FOs balls here. It's not bad.

I might actually, you know, try to enjoy that the team doesn't completely suck.
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Re: [WOJ] Knicks Extend Hart for 4/81 

Post#90 » by thebuzzardman » Fri Aug 11, 2023 1:22 am

god shammgod wrote:it all still rests though on getting a top 10 player here somehow. And there's really no reason for me to believe that's gonna happen.


You know what? Who gives a f*ck.

Do I hope they do? Absolutely.

Do I think they will? Probably not.

One team wins the championship every year. 29 teams don't.

I'll settle for the Knicks not being a total f*cking laughingstock for few years, after being exactly that for the last 20.


Oh, it would be nice if what these guys are doing is vaguely sustainable, in at least a Normal NBA Franchise kind of way. Like, where after 3 more years if they start to suck or bottom out, they could execute the proper reboot. Doubtful. But I'd take all that, short of a chip, too.

The team is solid. Has players (mostly) likable, hardworking, fun to root for. Brunson is actually fun to watch. Entertainment value a little lower with Obi gone, might be nice to have a truly talented high flyer, but whatever. Hopefully it lasts a few years.
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Re: [WOJ] Knicks Extend Hart for 4/81 

Post#91 » by thebuzzardman » Fri Aug 11, 2023 1:24 am

DrCoach wrote:Its funny to see posters try to somehow group the knicks with old regimes

The Knicks are doing a great job and i suspect Brock Aller is the mastermind

We have a solid team and added another solid 2 way player in his prime Donte
Resigned Hart
Brunson, Hart, Donte all in prime and have chemistry
We are not over the cap
We are young with no players over 30 yrs olf
We have chemistry and a culture
We have all our picks PLUS a surplus of others
We beat the Cavs with Mitchell whom many wanted to trade the farm for
We played the heat as well as any team, a Heat team that lost 2 rotation players in Straus $ Vincent
We have no un tradable albatross contracts
We have fournier to trade
No panic moves
No rotation players over 28 yrs old


I think I'm more on your side of this argument but disagree with the bolded. It's a good job.

Graded on the Knicks curve it's a great job. For the rest of the NBA it's solid. Normal. I'll take it.
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Re: [WOJ] Knicks Extend Hart for 4/81 

Post#92 » by Adelheid » Fri Aug 11, 2023 1:25 am

GONYK wrote:
Synciere wrote:
Snacks wrote:I don't really like this move if this is the team we move forward with. We don't have enough talent.

However, if we do lose significant depth b/c we do address the talent issue (i.e. Joel Embiid, Doncic :roll: ), then any coach would like Donte and Hart as guard/forwards off the bench - even at this price point, especially considering the above post and rising cap.


At some point you can’t keep enough dollars free in order to keep max slots open every year, and it’s not like these guys are waiting to get to free agency. They’re getting their hometown bonuses and then demanding trades, so free agency isn’t the way to go. The Knicks might actually be playing this just right. It’s almost shocking. We don’t have a single contract in the top 50 in the entire league. Just keep adding value contracts that are easily readable and hope we can add talent via trade.


Free agency is dead for stars. They secure their money and then ask out now.

Which makes the Brunson signing even more remarkable.


brunson event is a true show of the real spirit of how free agency should work and this how I really felt
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Re: [WOJ] Knicks Extend Hart for 4/81 

Post#93 » by KnixinSix » Fri Aug 11, 2023 1:47 am

thebuzzardman wrote:
god shammgod wrote:it all still rests though on getting a top 10 player here somehow. And there's really no reason for me to believe that's gonna happen.


You know what? Who gives a f*ck.

Do I hope they do? Absolutely.

Do I think they will? Probably not.

One team wins the championship every year. 29 teams don't.

I'll settle for the Knicks not being a total f*cking laughingstock for few years, after being exactly that for the last 20.


Oh, it would be nice if what these guys are doing is vaguely sustainable, in at least a Normal NBA Franchise kind of way. Like, where after 3 more years if they start to suck or bottom out, they could execute the proper reboot. Doubtful. But I'd take all that, short of a chip, too.

The team is solid. Has players (mostly) likable, hardworking, fun to root for. Brunson is actually fun to watch. Entertainment value a little lower with Obi gone, might be nice to have a truly talented high flyer, but whatever. Hopefully it lasts a few years.


I think we get a star on this team. It's feels like forever but I think its going to happen. And maybe even this offseason after maybe a couple dominoes fall like Harden and Lillard. If not this offseason I will be a bit surprised if it doesn't happen next offseason when the new CBA rules start.
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Re: [WOJ] Knicks Extend Hart for 4/81 

Post#94 » by DrCoach » Fri Aug 11, 2023 2:40 am

thebuzzardman wrote:
DrCoach wrote:Its funny to see posters try to somehow group the knicks with old regimes

The Knicks are doing a great job and i suspect Brock Aller is the mastermind

We have a solid team and added another solid 2 way player in his prime Donte
Resigned Hart
Brunson, Hart, Donte all in prime and have chemistry
We are not over the cap
We are young with no players over 30 yrs olf
We have chemistry and a culture
We have all our picks PLUS a surplus of others
We beat the Cavs with Mitchell whom many wanted to trade the farm for
We played the heat as well as any team, a Heat team that lost 2 rotation players in Straus $ Vincent
We have no un tradable albatross contracts
We have fournier to trade
No panic moves
No rotation players over 28 yrs old


I think I'm more on your side of this argument but disagree with the bolded. It's a good job.

Graded on the Knicks curve it's a great job. For the rest of the NBA it's solid. Normal. I'll take it.


Cap management
Surplus of picks
Team culture & Chemistry
2nd rd playoffs

Most importantly no panic moves and quick fixes
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Re: [WOJ] Knicks Extend Hart for 4/81 

Post#95 » by Bob Ross » Fri Aug 11, 2023 2:42 am

Love it. Hart was a great addition
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Re: [WOJ] Knicks Extend Hart for 4/81 

Post#96 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Fri Aug 11, 2023 2:59 am

god shammgod wrote:it all still rests though on getting a top 10 player here somehow. And there's really no reason for me to believe that's gonna happen.

It needs to be a specific position to fit with Brunson too, like they have to be a perimeter player with size, or a big he can play 2 man game with.
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Re: [WOJ] Knicks Extend Hart for 4/81 

Post#97 » by KnixinSix » Fri Aug 11, 2023 3:25 am

It feels like the Clips are going to get Harden and Miami will get Lillard. Will they be 3 tor 4 team deals? Will Clips getting Harden lead them to trade PG for a younger more durable player to team with Harden and Kawhi? Right now when you look at it from a risk mitigation standpoint they would have too many 9lder injury prone players that theyd b3 banking on.

If you convert PG into an RJ Barrett (or even maybe IQ+) lets say..you get a much younger durable player on a great contract who fits well with Kawhi and Harden.

Very interesting to see what player or players the Knicks get for one or some of their tradeable assets apart from the Villanova trio.
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Re: [WOJ] Knicks Extend Hart for 4/81 

Post#98 » by Clyde_Style » Fri Aug 11, 2023 6:28 am

thebuzzardman wrote:
DrCoach wrote:Its funny to see posters try to somehow group the knicks with old regimes

The Knicks are doing a great job and i suspect Brock Aller is the mastermind

We have a solid team and added another solid 2 way player in his prime Donte
Resigned Hart
Brunson, Hart, Donte all in prime and have chemistry
We are not over the cap
We are young with no players over 30 yrs olf
We have chemistry and a culture
We have all our picks PLUS a surplus of others
We beat the Cavs with Mitchell whom many wanted to trade the farm for
We played the heat as well as any team, a Heat team that lost 2 rotation players in Straus $ Vincent
We have no un tradable albatross contracts
We have fournier to trade
No panic moves
No rotation players over 28 yrs old


I think I'm more on your side of this argument but disagree with the bolded. It's a good job.

Graded on the Knicks curve it's a great job. For the rest of the NBA it's solid. Normal. I'll take it.


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Re: [WOJ] Knicks Extend Hart for 4/81 

Post#99 » by HarthorneWingo » Fri Aug 11, 2023 6:52 am

Chanel Bomber wrote:
nedleeds wrote:
robillionaire wrote:rip team tank

Image

Long live team treadmill!

Image

With Brunson I think the Knicks have a window to become something more than a treadmill. It's all about opportunity and execution now. Will they succeed? Probably not. The margin for error is thin. But there's a window.


It depends how you define "success". Can the Knicks get to the ECF in 2024? I think it's possible. I also believe that this is, if we stay relatively healthy, at 50-win team.
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Re: [WOJ] Knicks Extend Hart for 4/81 

Post#100 » by Jalen Bluntson » Fri Aug 11, 2023 8:15 am

nedleeds wrote:
WargamesX wrote:
Jalen Bluntson wrote:I like it. This is a good team. One star away from a contender with assets to get one. I'm here for it. Best team in the last 2 decades. LFGK


I feel bad for anyone who doesn't realize this is probably the best Knicks team from the last 2 decades. :nod:

I feel bad for any zygote who didn't watch us get to two Finals.

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