Raps worth over 1B more than Leafs/Jays.

[C Court]

In terms of team merch in the GTA I would rank it #1 Raptors, #2 Blue Jays and # 3 Maple Leafs.

There are more people wearing Raptors and Jays gear than Leafs stuff.

[maternal85]

Absolutely false, but the only reason you're comfortable in saying this is because hockey is still a majority white sport and these days its perfectly acceptable to dump on white people and make derogatory remarks against anything that's predominately white. Would you be saying hockey culture is racist if it were a majority black sport? Of course not because you'd know you'd catch hell from the SJWs and risk your ass being cancelled by them.

Oh, Christ, not this ‘whites are the real victims now’ crap. Do you remember whites or christians being pulled aside for ‘random searches’ at government buildings after OKC? Do you know that when the DOJ finally categorized domestic right-wing extremism/terrorism as A domestic threat they had already in fact been behind the vast majority of terrorist attacks in the US for well over a decade, and the DOJ knew that all along? Remember any decades between 9-11 and Muslim extremists being classified as a domestic threat?

That the perpetrators of hate crimes are overwhelmingly white, and that despite whites comprising ~ 60% of the population, African Americans 12%, the latter represents ~ 50% of hate crime victims and minorities overall 84% and whites, the overwhelming majority of the population, about 16%. I mean, I know murders and other such hate crimes aren’t as serious as casting minorities in written-as-white roles, oh the humanity, but still it’s worth a ponder, no? In much the same way that losing your job for making a racist joke is much more of an injustice than than the fact that being born black makes you 6 times more likely to end up incarcerated than if you were born white. And that being black means a 20-25% increase in sentencing length compared with whites for the exact same crime. Or the fact that you can take the median income of a black household, then raise it by a full half of that number and still be tens of thousands behind the median household income. Or that you are 1/5th more likely to be pulled over by the police if you are a black driver.Or..I could literally go on all night.

This is almost as stupid a concept as the idea that the FBI is weaponized against conservatives/Republicans. My god what an asinine exercise in privilege mitigated = snowflake persecution. Please challenge me on this point, I have so many wonderful facts to share with you. But I know, facts about who is victimized aren’t all that important so long as conservatives/Christians/republicans feel victimized.

It's simply white privilege, which is why I left the convo. Minorities are saying the reason I don't watch or play hockey is due to racism. People of the majority race are here invalidating their experience and gaslighting them. This is exactly why hockey is not diverse and growing. Now this person is saying how come hockey players don't get in trouble. Basically saying you're more likely to be a criminal if you're born with darker skin I guess ? This way of thinking and culture from the hockey community is why minorities stay away from the game. But to answer his question, just Google "Alex Galchenyuk". He had the privilege of staying under the radar. I wonder why ..

[GQStylin]

Oh, Christ, not this ‘whites are the real victims now’ crap. Do you remember whites or christians being pulled aside for ‘random searches’ at government buildings after OKC? Do you know that when the DOJ finally categorized domestic right-wing extremism/terrorism as A domestic threat they had already in fact been behind the vast majority of terrorist attacks in the US for well over a decade, and the DOJ knew that all along? Remember any decades between 9-11 and Muslim extremists being classified as a domestic threat?

Firstly what does any of this have to do with hockey players supposedly being racist towards non-white people?

Putting that aside, 'right wing extremism' is largely a nothingburger. Not saying such extremists don't exist or that they don't at times commit crime and violence, but nothing they have supposedly done in the past 20 years can ever equal the amount of death, injures and mass destruction in major US cities that was caused during the George Floyd riots and yet somehow that's classified as being 'mostly peaceful protests'.

Can you imagine if it were tens of thousands of white people looting businesses and then burning down multiple buildings in a number of major US cities and destroying property like there's no tomorrow and taking a part of downtown Seattle and calling it their own automous zone for several weeks how vastly different the government reaction would've been? There would be A TON of these protesters sitting in jail by now instead of having all those people that committed all that violence and destruction being largely given slaps on the wrists or even completely pardoned for their crimes.

That the perpetrators of hate crimes are overwhelmingly white, and that despite whites comprising ~ 60% of the population, African Americans 12%, the latter represents ~ 50% of hate crime victims and minorities overall 84% and whites, the overwhelming majority of the population, about 16%.

This depends on what you define as a 'hate crime'. Is it someone uttering a racial slur at you or yelling at you to go back home to your country of origin? Or is it someone actually assaulting you and beating the crap out of you or even murdering you simply because of your skin color? If its the latter than yeah I can perhaps believe white people are big perpetrators of those types of 'hate crimes', but if its the latter then ABSOLUTELY NOT. No way in hell that white people are the predominate perpetrators of violent crimes against non-white people. Just look at the FBI statistics for yourself and you'll clearly see white people aren't even close to committing the most interracial murders on that list despite being the majority population in the US:

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls

Somehow white people have 5 times larger population than black Americans and yet they magically are able to commit less than half the interracial murders than black Americans do. Weird huh?

Also its laughable to me that people can say with a straight face that white people commit tons of 'hate crimes' when the vast majority of people caught on video assaulting, injuring or even killing people of a race/ethnicity different from their own is overwhelmingly black. Just ask Asian and Jewish people who commits random attacks them the most often and they sure as heck aren't going to say its white people. Hell there were several major protests in the US by Asian people in the last year or two in response to all the attacks against them and ask yourself why even then they were afraid to name the perpetrators who were committing the majority of attacks against them? Somehow I doubt they would have the same hesitancy to name their attackers if they were mostly white people, but we can see for ourselves in countless videos of Asians getting attacked who the majority of the perpetrators are and its why stories of Asians being victimized hasn't gained nearly as much media and public attention as it should have.

Also here's some stats in the US with regards to hate crimes:

https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2019/topic-pages/offenders

I'm not a math genius, but by my rough calculations

235 million white Americans / 3200 hate crimes = 1.36 hate crimes per 100,000
47 million black Americans / 1,500 hate crimes = 3.27 hate crimes per 100,000

So white Americans commit almost two and half times FEWER hate crimes per capita compared to black Americans. So please tell me again how white people are the predominate perpetrators of hate crimes?

In much the same way that losing your job for making a racist joke is much more of an injustice than than the fact that being born black makes you 6 times more likely to end up incarcerated than if you were born white. And that being black means a 20-25% increase in sentencing length compared with whites for the exact same crime. Or the fact that you can take the median income of a black household, then raise it by a full half of that number and still be tens of thousands behind the median household income. Or that you are 1/5th more likely to be pulled over by the police if you are a black driver.Or..I could literally go on all night.

So just to be clear are you saying that black people have no agency or responsibility for their own actions that lead to the outcomes that are supposedly biased and racist against them? If black people are supposedly 6 times more like to end up in jail, is that because police and the justice system are purposely targeting them and are actively trying their best to throw them in prison or maybe, JUST MAYBE they're ending up in jail at much higher rates because they commit vastly higher rates of crime and violence?

Here check out this list of crimes that shows the number of instances by race:

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/table-43

Go through the list and look especially at violent crimes and then comeback and tell me that you don't understand why some groups of people are going to prison at far higher rates than other groups are.

[GQStylin]

It's simply white privilege, which is why I left the convo. Minorities are saying the reason I don't watch or play hockey is due to racism. People of the majority race are here invalidating their experience and gaslighting them. This is exactly why hockey is not diverse and growing. Now this person is saying how come hockey players don't get in trouble. Basically saying you're more likely to be a criminal if you're born with darker skin I guess ? This way of thinking and culture from the hockey community is why minorities stay away from the game. But to answer his question, just Google "Alex Galchenyuk". He had the privilege of staying under the radar. I wonder why ..

Did you see the crowds celebrating in downtown Toronto after the Leafs beat the Lightning? It was a fairly diverse crowd. Sure there were plenty of white people, but there were also a decent amount of non-white people celebrating too. Its almost as if a team achieving some success can bring together a city's people no matter what race/ethnicity they are. I'm pretty sure that if the Leafs ever go far in the playoffs or even achieve the ultimate goal of winning the Stanley Cup that it isn't only going to be white people celebrating in the GTA. The best way to gain new fans even if they're casual ones is to have playoff success and of course the Leafs have been severely failing on that front for a number of years now.

Now this person is saying how come hockey players don't get in trouble. Basically saying you're more likely to be a criminal if you're born with darker skin I guess ? This way of thinking and culture from the hockey community is why minorities stay away from the game. But to answer his question, just Google "Alex Galchenyuk". He had the privilege of staying under the radar. I wonder why ..

I'm simply stating that calling NHL players 'racist' without any proof is wrong and that we also ignore the fact that athletes from other sports get in trouble far more often for far more serious offenses and yet that's not a major story compared to the NHL being 'racist' for 'not being diverse enough' as if we can force people to play hockey or any other sport.

The NBA is 72% black and the remaining NBA players mostly white. How come there hasn't ever been a demand to have more Asian, South Asian, Latino, Arab etc. representation in the league to have the NBA better reflect North America's diverse population? Gee I wonder why?

Also while ice hockey may never be the most popular sport in the world or even North America, I think hockey will be fine for many years to come because it will always be Canada's game. Remember 2010 Vancouver Olympics when the men's hockey team won gold? Somehow I doubt that if the Canadian men's Olympic basketball team won gold that the celebrations would come anywhere close to this:

Watch on YouTube

[GreatWhiteStiff]

This thread has jumped at least 1 shark. Maybe several.

[HiJiNX]

It’s pretty simple. Look at the demographics of our city, North America, most of Western Europe, Latin America, Africa, and Asia…and then look at the demographics of hockey players. Hockey’s issue is it has made no attempt to bring in a more diverse fanbase, which limits its popularity. It has a very rigid and exclusionary culture. And of course it’s very expensive to play, so there’s definitely a factor of existing wealth gaps between demographics, which is another way diverse communities face barriers to the game. Put all this together and the game has failed to grow while the NBA (and MLS) has.

I disagree. Hockey has made many attempts to appeal to a wider audience, but guess what? You can't force people who have never played or watched a game to suddenly enjoy a sport. Either people will start enjoying the sport on their own and get into it or they won't. Soccer still isn't a huge sport in Canada despite many years of promoting it and trying to get more kids to play it on a serious level. Plenty of people play it recreationally, but not as many get into it wanting to be a future pro soccer player though.

I’ve always held that Gary Bettman is a terrible commissioner and his staunch traditionalism is holding back the sport. Are the players still mandated to wear suits to the games or did they relent on that yet?? These aren’t the players of yesteryear. They listen to hip hop and are more integrated into mainstream culture and modes of expression. Social media is a thing. And with that, content creation. Let the players have some charisma about them, some swag. Attract more young people to the game and more demographics.

Not everyone likes to be loud, brash and likes to seek attention at every turn. Maybe that's just a white people thing or also the fact that many hockey players come from small towns and cities and are raised differently with different values. As well maybe the NHL is still living with the ghosts of the Todd Bertuzzi/Steve Moore incident from back in 2004 where drama, trash talking and calls for revenge went too far and ever since then the league has wanted its players and fanbases to tone things down so that there wouldn't be a repeat incident in the future.

Before that incident that in the 80s, 90s and early 2000s there was alot more drama, trash talking and bad blood between fanbases. Back then rivalries got really heated and fanbases actually hated each other. I remember back in the day when the Leafs kept meeting the Sens in the playoffs the Battle of Ontario was huge rivalry in the province and was one of the most hard fought and exciting series to watch everytime they played against each other. These days all my dislike for the Sens is almost gone and I'm actually rooting for them to do well now. LOL

And of course, subsidize community leagues so more kids can play. In short, once hockey takes the stick out of its own ass and makes the game more accessible and relatable it’ll start to see a rise in popularity.

Lets be real. Hockey isn't cheap, but its not a rich person's sport like many people make it out to be. Yes it does require a decent amount of money to fund your child to play hockey at a serious level, but people make it sound like it takes hundreds of thousands of dollars or something.

Do people not realize that many parents who have funded their child's hockey career are probably mostly middle class or poorer? Look at all the Hall of Fame NHL players or even many players active in the league now and you'll see that many of them come from humble beginnings from small towns and cities and their parents aren't exactly rich. The thing is they make sacrifices to save up for their kid's hockey equipment and fees. Maybe they don't buy that new car or go on a vacation for a few years so that they can put their kid through the next level of hockey or buy that new piece of equipment. Its no different than parents saving up to fund their baby's future university/college education.

I don't see why minority families can't do the same if their kids really wanted to get into hockey? Also if we're talking about Asian people or Indians from South Asia, many of those people are among the wealthiest in Canada and guess what? We're not seeing a ton of Asian and Indian kids getting into hockey or any sport for that matter even though they can clearly afford it. Maybe sports just isn't appealing to these demographics of people at least when it comes to playing it on a pro level. Maybe these people are content with just watching sports and being fans rather than playing the game themselves. I've been an NHL fan for decades now and I've never once played ice hockey or ever entertained the idea of getting into playing competitive hockey.

Hockey has NOT done a good job of outreaching to non-white folks. A perfect example is how the NHL responded to the George Floyd murder versus how the other major sports leagues responded. Not only was the NHL the last of the four major North American leagues to respond but their response clearly indicated a lack of appreciation and understanding of the greater issue. It’s a league where players are still subjected to racial slurs on the ice. It’s a league where analysts have Freudian slips and say that guys like PK Subban need to play the “white” way. Speaking of Subban, it’s a league where the Montreal Canadiens’ racist ownership traded away their most popular player, who also happened to be really good, for a more “traditional” guy in Shea Webber.

We also are seeing a few more Asians and South Asians in hockey. And it’s not that they don’t play they sport growing up, it’s that they typically abandon it once they get tired of the lack of inclusivity and racial abuse embedded in the sport’s culture. I personally know a few people who have this story.

As for the economic aspect, some families don’t have the luxury of making sacrifices so that their kids can play because there isn’t a pool of money to sacrifice from. I’m a Jamaican immigrant, came to Canada when I was a kid and fell in love with hockey. Wanted to play. I was the best street hockey and ball hockey player in my neighbourhood and schools all the way through high school and even in small community leagues. But I couldn’t afford to play. And even though I loved playing in ball hockey leagues, I stopped as a young adult as I got tired of loving the game but hating the way the people who played it treated me.

I think that your response is part of the issue. Hockey, like Canada, engages in this denialism like the rest of us who don’t have blinders on can’t see hockey and it’s culture for what it is.

[Kingsway_fan]

Racism/cost/access to rinks could be the reasons why kids don't play hockey, but the bigger concern is why people aren't watching it or following it on a larger scale, at least compared to the other major sports. You don't need to play a sport or be involved directly with it to be interested in it. The NHL does a very poor job attracting the casual fans and it seems they're only interested in catering to hardcore fans.

Yep. Predominantly white dudes.. esp old and rural... 100 percent true. Just look at their broadcasters... lol

[WuTang_CMB]

I never played hockey growing up only basketball but I would always enjoy watching guys like Yzerman, Sakic, Roy Lemieux, Brodeaur etc

the video games were great too. Wayne gretzky 3D hockey deadly

NHL lost it a while ago. Bettman is a moron

[sbsat]

It's simply white privilege, which is why I left the convo. Minorities are saying the reason I don't watch or play hockey is due to racism. People of the majority race are here invalidating their experience and gaslighting them. This is exactly why hockey is not diverse and growing. Now this person is saying how come hockey players don't get in trouble. Basically saying you're more likely to be a criminal if you're born with darker skin I guess ? This way of thinking and culture from the hockey community is why minorities stay away from the game. But to answer his question, just Google "Alex Galchenyuk". He had the privilege of staying under the radar. I wonder why ..

Did you see the crowds celebrating in downtown Toronto after the Leafs beat the Lightning? It was a fairly diverse crowd. Sure there were plenty of white people, but there were also a decent amount of non-white people celebrating too. Its almost as if a team achieving some success can bring together a city's people no matter what race/ethnicity they are. I'm pretty sure that if the Leafs ever go far in the playoffs or even achieve the ultimate goal of winning the Stanley Cup that it isn't only going to be white people celebrating in the GTA. The best way to gain new fans even if they're casual ones is to have playoff success and of course the Leafs have been severely failing on that front for a number of years now.

Now this person is saying how come hockey players don't get in trouble. Basically saying you're more likely to be a criminal if you're born with darker skin I guess ? This way of thinking and culture from the hockey community is why minorities stay away from the game. But to answer his question, just Google "Alex Galchenyuk". He had the privilege of staying under the radar. I wonder why ..

I'm simply stating that calling NHL players 'racist' without any proof is wrong and that we also ignore the fact that athletes from other sports get in trouble far more often for far more serious offenses and yet that's not a major story compared to the NHL being 'racist' for 'not being diverse enough' as if we can force people to play hockey or any other sport.

The NBA is 72% black and the remaining NBA players mostly white. How come there hasn't ever been a demand to have more Asian, South Asian, Latino, Arab etc. representation in the league to have the NBA better reflect North America's diverse population? Gee I wonder why?

Also while ice hockey may never be the most popular sport in the world or even North America, I think hockey will be fine for many years to come because it will always be Canada's game. Remember 2010 Vancouver Olympics when the men's hockey team won gold? Somehow I doubt that if the Canadian men's Olympic basketball team won gold that the celebrations would come anywhere close to this:

Watch on YouTube

no offense, but your information to word count ratio is brutal!

No one is saying the people who play hockey are inherently racist, but the entire system and culture (a by product of years and years) is exclusionary along the lines of race. Its also acceptable to do racist things, because when your in the system, no one knows any better.

Why is there lack of diversity in the league? Explain it. The immigrant population in Canada and the Northern States of the USA have wealth. You can no longer peg it to affordability. I also know people with young kids (coloured south asian) who say their kids were never made to feel they "fit in" when they tried hockey.

Lastly, I should say I grew up a leafs fan even though my parents could never afford to put me in hockey. My eyes were opened in my first year of university when my roomate (who played hockey in the OHL) exposed me to the racist underbelly of hockey. He would often make very insensitive jokes about black people and indians and when I would confront him he would say this is how we would talk in the locker room. Hes not racist, he just didn't know any better.

The product on the ice you see, the fans, the inability to speak to many parts of the world are all proof hockey has a major systemic issue with race.

[Kingsway_fan]

Who got better ratings? A regular season Raps game or a Jays exhibition game? Advertising revenue is a big factor in these valuations, or should be. NBA benefits from US national TV deal and international revenues (NHL revenue on this end is low) on top of their respective regional markets. I think many of you are making false assessments.

Leafs audience predominantly whites over age 40... and especially rural.. those are the demographics.

Now, compare that with Raptors or MLS...

[ItsDanger]

Who got better ratings? A regular season Raps game or a Jays exhibition game? Advertising revenue is a big factor in these valuations, or should be. NBA benefits from US national TV deal and international revenues (NHL revenue on this end is low) on top of their respective regional markets. I think many of you are making false assessments.

Leafs audience predominantly whites over age 40... and especially rural.. those are the demographics.

Now, compare that with Raptors or MLS...

This based on your in depth marketing study? Reality is younger audience don't watch full games much at all.

[OakleyDokely]

Who got better ratings? A regular season Raps game or a Jays exhibition game? Advertising revenue is a big factor in these valuations, or should be. NBA benefits from US national TV deal and international revenues (NHL revenue on this end is low) on top of their respective regional markets. I think many of you are making false assessments.

Leafs audience predominantly whites over age 40... and especially rural.. those are the demographics.

Now, compare that with Raptors or MLS...

This based on your in depth marketing study? Reality is younger audience don't watch full games much at all.

reality is, advertisers prioritize a younger consumer base.

[ItsDanger]

Leafs audience predominantly whites over age 40... and especially rural.. those are the demographics.

Now, compare that with Raptors or MLS...

This based on your in depth marketing study? Reality is younger audience don't watch full games much at all.

reality is, advertisers prioritize a younger consumer base.

True ONLY if they're watching.

[OakleyDokely]

This based on your in depth marketing study? Reality is younger audience don't watch full games much at all.

reality is, advertisers prioritize a younger consumer base.

True ONLY if they're watching.

Which is why the NBA TV contract is a lot bigger than the NHL's.

Traditional TV is just one way to judge popularity though. Traditional TV will always slant towards an older audience.

[ItsDanger]

reality is, advertisers prioritize a younger consumer base.

True ONLY if they're watching.

Which is why the NBA TV contract is a lot bigger than the NHL's.

Traditional TV is just one way to judge popularity though. Traditional TV will always slant towards an older audience.

I'm speaking from a regional perspective, not national in US.

[maternal85]

It’s pretty simple. Look at the demographics of our city, North America, most of Western Europe, Latin America, Africa, and Asia…and then look at the demographics of hockey players. Hockey’s issue is it has made no attempt to bring in a more diverse fanbase, which limits its popularity. It has a very rigid and exclusionary culture. And of course it’s very expensive to play, so there’s definitely a factor of existing wealth gaps between demographics, which is another way diverse communities face barriers to the game. Put all this together and the game has failed to grow while the NBA (and MLS) has.

I disagree. Hockey has made many attempts to appeal to a wider audience, but guess what? You can't force people who have never played or watched a game to suddenly enjoy a sport. Either people will start enjoying the sport on their own and get into it or they won't. Soccer still isn't a huge sport in Canada despite many years of promoting it and trying to get more kids to play it on a serious level. Plenty of people play it recreationally, but not as many get into it wanting to be a future pro soccer player though.

I’ve always held that Gary Bettman is a terrible commissioner and his staunch traditionalism is holding back the sport. Are the players still mandated to wear suits to the games or did they relent on that yet?? These aren’t the players of yesteryear. They listen to hip hop and are more integrated into mainstream culture and modes of expression. Social media is a thing. And with that, content creation. Let the players have some charisma about them, some swag. Attract more young people to the game and more demographics.

Not everyone likes to be loud, brash and likes to seek attention at every turn. Maybe that's just a white people thing or also the fact that many hockey players come from small towns and cities and are raised differently with different values. As well maybe the NHL is still living with the ghosts of the Todd Bertuzzi/Steve Moore incident from back in 2004 where drama, trash talking and calls for revenge went too far and ever since then the league has wanted its players and fanbases to tone things down so that there wouldn't be a repeat incident in the future.

Before that incident that in the 80s, 90s and early 2000s there was alot more drama, trash talking and bad blood between fanbases. Back then rivalries got really heated and fanbases actually hated each other. I remember back in the day when the Leafs kept meeting the Sens in the playoffs the Battle of Ontario was huge rivalry in the province and was one of the most hard fought and exciting series to watch everytime they played against each other. These days all my dislike for the Sens is almost gone and I'm actually rooting for them to do well now. LOL

And of course, subsidize community leagues so more kids can play. In short, once hockey takes the stick out of its own ass and makes the game more accessible and relatable it’ll start to see a rise in popularity.

Lets be real. Hockey isn't cheap, but its not a rich person's sport like many people make it out to be. Yes it does require a decent amount of money to fund your child to play hockey at a serious level, but people make it sound like it takes hundreds of thousands of dollars or something.

Do people not realize that many parents who have funded their child's hockey career are probably mostly middle class or poorer? Look at all the Hall of Fame NHL players or even many players active in the league now and you'll see that many of them come from humble beginnings from small towns and cities and their parents aren't exactly rich. The thing is they make sacrifices to save up for their kid's hockey equipment and fees. Maybe they don't buy that new car or go on a vacation for a few years so that they can put their kid through the next level of hockey or buy that new piece of equipment. Its no different than parents saving up to fund their baby's future university/college education.

I don't see why minority families can't do the same if their kids really wanted to get into hockey? Also if we're talking about Asian people or Indians from South Asia, many of those people are among the wealthiest in Canada and guess what? We're not seeing a ton of Asian and Indian kids getting into hockey or any sport for that matter even though they can clearly afford it. Maybe sports just isn't appealing to these demographics of people at least when it comes to playing it on a pro level. Maybe these people are content with just watching sports and being fans rather than playing the game themselves. I've been an NHL fan for decades now and I've never once played ice hockey or ever entertained the idea of getting into playing competitive hockey.

Hockey has NOT done a good job of outreaching to non-white folks. A perfect example is how the NHL responded to the George Floyd murder versus how the other major sports leagues responded. Not only was the NHL the last of the four major North American leagues to respond but their response clearly indicated a lack of appreciation and understanding of the greater issue. It’s a league where players are still subjected to racial slurs on the ice. It’s a league where analysts have Freudian slips and say that guys like PK Subban need to play the “white” way. Speaking of Subban, it’s a league where the Montreal Canadiens’ racist ownership traded away their most popular player, who also happened to be really good, for a more “traditional” guy in Shea Webber.

We also are seeing a few more Asians and South Asians in hockey. And it’s not that they don’t play they sport growing up, it’s that they typically abandon it once they get tired of the lack of inclusivity and racial abuse embedded in the sport’s culture. I personally know a few people who have this story.

As for the economic aspect, some families don’t have the luxury of making sacrifices so that their kids can play because there isn’t a pool of money to sacrifice from. I’m a Jamaican immigrant, came to Canada when I was a kid and fell in love with hockey. Wanted to play. I was the best street hockey and ball hockey player in my neighbourhood and schools all the way through high school and even in small community leagues. But I couldn’t afford to play. And even though I loved playing in ball hockey leagues, I stopped as a young adult as I got tired of loving the game but hating the way the people who played it treated me.

I think that your response is part of the issue. Hockey, like Canada, engages in this denialism like the rest of us who don’t have blinders on can’t see hockey and it’s culture for what it is.

No need wasting your time. He's clearly a racist that enjoys his privilege. Even when you put facts in their face, they'll still gaslight you. I remember getting tickets to an NHL game. First hockey game ever. Me and my little brother were literally getting dirty looks. Like "what are they doing here". If you're a minority, you know the look I'm talking about. You couldn't pay me to attend another NHL game. I definitely would have followed the league more and got into if the culture was more accepting.

The socio economic excuse is not legit anymore. A lot of visible minorities are doing very well; especially 1st, 2nd, etc generation. They can afford to put their kids in hockey, but they choose not too. The racism is too much. My friends who are professionals and make well over 6 figures, refuse to put their kids in hockey. Money is not an issue either.

I don't think I've ever seen Nav at a hockey game. Not just as a guest appearance too. Him being there because he legit wants to be there.

[ItsDanger]

[GQStylin]

Hockey has NOT done a good job of outreaching to non-white folks. A perfect example is how the NHL responded to the George Floyd murder versus how the other major sports leagues responded. Not only was the NHL the last of the four major North American leagues to respond but their response clearly indicated a lack of appreciation and understanding of the greater issue.

The question really should be WHY the NHL needed to respond to the George Floyd incident to begin with other than the BLM/Floyd movement becoming a cult and forcing major businesses and organizations to respond as a purity test. IE whether or not your organization had any real issues with minorities, you HAD TO at least make a statement in response or else you'd be accused of 'racism'.

The BLM/Floyd movement was a US issue and yet it spread worldwide to a number of countries even though many nations' histories with black people might've been vastly different and what happened in the US didn't apply to these other countries, but it didn't matter anyways because it became a movement that people loved to grift off of and force the narrative that black people were mistreated everywhere they went rather than shining the light back on themselves as to the reason that no matter which nation they settle in in significant numbers that many of them were still often struggling.

All those times the BLM/Floyd protesters made accusations and demands against others, did they ever PUT THEMSELVES under the microscope and examine THEMSELVES and seek to improve THEMSELVES? Nope. EVERYONE ELSE needed to 'do better' except for themselves. Everyone need to take black issues seriously and make major changes.....except for black people who were perfect and never needed to make any changes themselves.

It’s a league where players are still subjected to racial slurs on the ice. It’s a league where analysts have Freudian slips and say that guys like PK Subban need to play the “white” way. Speaking of Subban, it’s a league where the Montreal Canadiens’ racist ownership traded away their most popular player, who also happened to be really good, for a more “traditional” guy in Shea Webber.

Again SHOW ME PROOF that any NHL player in recent memory had ever been found guilty of saying racial slurs on the ice during a game? The only example I found was Alex Galchenyuk who was arrested while driving drunk recently using a slur against the arresting officers. Any other instance I found of a hockey player saying something racist was related to players in the minor leagues. In other words there ISN'T any major issues with NHL players being intolerant against other people no matter how hard you try and paint a mostly white hockey league as being 'racist' simply for being mostly white.

As for Subban you don't know it was purely because he was black and was 'too flamboyant' for the Habs and that rather it wasn't a hockey move when while Subban's offense was good, he wasn't very good defensively for a 9 million dollar player. Its crazy to see how he had 2 more good years with the Preds and then he fell off a cliff and he retired from the league only 6 seasons after he left the Habs at the age of 33 when most NHL players especially star NHL players would still be going strong.

The Habs didn't feel they were going to go any further with Subban and so they made the trade for Webber who was much better defensively. In the end they weren't wrong about Subban and his quickly declining play.

We also are seeing a few more Asians and South Asians in hockey. And it’s not that they don’t play they sport growing up, it’s that they typically abandon it once they get tired of the lack of inclusivity and racial abuse embedded in the sport’s culture. I personally know a few people who have this story.

Again SHOW ME PROOF that there's numerous examples of Asian kids wanting to get into hockey, but decided not to because they were turned off by the supposed 'racism and lack of inclusivity' from the sport? If this is the case can we make the same assumption that Asian kids were also turned off with the 'lack of inclusivity and racism' from basketball and football as well since there's been so few Asian players in those leagues too? Even in baseball the majority of Asian players are Japanese imports rather than Asians raised in North America growing up and becoming MLB players.

So how come you're not questioning the 'lack of diversity' and Asian representation in those leagues? How come we haven't seen North American born/raised Asian people getting into all those other sports and becoming pro players in all those leagues? Is it because of racism/intolerance holding them back or maybe, JUST MAYBE most Asian kids have no aspirations or aren't able to reach the top levels of those leagues?

In this day and age where you can make racial accusations and have them be taken seriously and examined, its curious that mostly only black people made the accusations that they were mistreated and discriminated against, with some accusations coming from native people in Canada and that's about it.

As for the economic aspect, some families don’t have the luxury of making sacrifices so that their kids can play because there isn’t a pool of money to sacrifice from. I’m a Jamaican immigrant, came to Canada when I was a kid and fell in love with hockey. Wanted to play. I was the best street hockey and ball hockey player in my neighbourhood and schools all the way through high school and even in small community leagues. But I couldn’t afford to play. And even though I loved playing in ball hockey leagues, I stopped as a young adult as I got tired of loving the game but hating the way the people who played it treated me.

So you're making a blanket statement that the majority of black families in Canada aren't able to afford to put their kids through hockey and have them work towards becoming pro players? Can you find me proof that many black kids are even interested in playing hockey at any serious level? It seems to me like the vast majority of them prefer other sports like basketball, football, soccer etc. rather than growing up loving hockey.

There are numerous sports that don't have many black people participating in them, so should we assume that most or all those sports aren't inclusive and are 'racist'? Or is the more logical reason is that black people much like every other group of people are interested in some activities far more than other activities and also some are simply more suited for some sports compared to other sports? I guess that might be too much of a boring and drama free explanation compared to saying many sports are 'racist' and intolerant towards 'people of color'.

I think that your response is part of the issue. Hockey, like Canada, engages in this denialism like the rest of us who don’t have blinders on can’t see hockey and it’s culture for what it is.

Again why aren't you taking a deep dive analysis into basketball, football, baseball etc. and asking these same questions why those sports aren't diverse enough and having enough non-black, non-white players to represent North America's diverse population? Why is it mostly only hockey under the microscope? I think we know why.

[maternal85]

Very diverse crowd lol. Seems like a promotional gig. How many games does he attend per year ? Why isn't he a season ticket holder ?

[ItsDanger]

Very diverse crowd lol. Seems like a promotional gig. How many games does he attend per year ? Why isn't he a season ticket holder ?

LOL. No idea how many games he attends. Just attending every raptors game alone is quite time consuming for most people. I doubt many have season tickets for both except for companies.