Backcourt chaos…what’s next?

[Skybox]

Like i said the Magic would need to add some incentive, but Fultz is a solid player off the bench. I mean they almost traded him for Amir Coffey and the 30th pick.
https://www.ocregister.com/2023/06/21/report-clippers-working-to-acquire-malcolm-brogdon-from-celtics-in-3-team-trade/

Ofcourse the Magic would have to see how his recovery is looking.

All I’m asking is would you play Brogdon over Fultz.

Most of the time, sure, but its not that simple. Contracts matter, incentives matter. The Celtics also have a tendency to take too many 3s at times and Fultz off the bench can help them in that regard.

Yes…Fultz can definitely help the C’s with their “too many 3’s” problem

[Residual-Heat]

All I’m asking is would you play Brogdon over Fultz.

Most of the time, sure, but its not that simple. Contracts matter, incentives matter. The Celtics also have a tendency to take too many 3s at times and Fultz off the bench can help them in that regard.

Yes…Fultz can definitely help the C’s with their “too many 3’s” problem

Well its true . He'd be a useful player for them off the bench.

[Skybox]

Most of the time, sure, but its not that simple. Contracts matter, incentives matter. The Celtics also have a tendency to take too many 3s at times and Fultz off the bench can help them in that regard.

Yes…Fultz can definitely help the C’s with their “too many 3’s” problem

Well its true . He'd be a useful player for them off the bench.

It’s true…he’s got a lot to offer for a team that can put shooters around him in an uptempo offense.

[MasterGMer]

We will move on from someone from our backcourt

[Fortune Teller]

I don't remember what the splits were when Cole started at SG next to Fultz at PG, but in the final year of Cole's rookie deal I'd like to see them give it a chance. I don't think Suggs can play shooting guard, due to the whole "shooting" part of it.

I'm not sure if Weltman is just planning to let Fultz and Harris's contracts expire to clear space, but at this point I don't see the vision. It seems like all we got out of the 6 & 11 picks was 3rd-string depth, playing behind 2 other guards you drafted still on rookie deals, who are playing behind the 2 starters.

[zaymon]

I don't remember what the splits were when Cole started at SG next to Fultz at PG, but in the final year of Cole's rookie deal I'd like to see them give it a chance. I don't think Suggs can play shooting guard, due to the whole "shooting" part of it.

I'm not sure if Weltman is just planning to let Fultz and Harris's contracts expire to clear space, but at this point I don't see the vision. It seems like all we got out of the 6 & 11 picks was 3rd-string depth, playing behind 2 other guards you drafted still on rookie deals, who are playing behind the 2 starters.

Fultz and Anthony are one of the worst high minutes two man combinations. Its becouse they both struggle to play off the ball and they are both ranging from bad to average defenders. Suggs can at least defend wings which makes his impact better than anticipated.

[VFX]

Cole and Suggs were the best combo as a backcourt for Orlando last season. They also selected Black as the lead guard and playmaker with arguably Orlando’s last top pick.

With that being said, you can draw some conclusions as to which direction they are heading.

[zaymon]

Cole and Suggs were the best combo as a backcourt for Orlando last season. They also selected Black as the lead guard and playmaker with arguably Orlando’s last top pick.

With that being said, you can draw some conclusions as to which direction they are heading.

Fultz had the worst advanced stats of the group, doesnt fit with both Franz and Paolo and we drafted player at his perceived role.
Conclusion ?
We will resign Fultz at 25M+.
I have quite different opinion.

[VFX]

Cole and Suggs were the best combo as a backcourt for Orlando last season. They also selected Black as the lead guard and playmaker with arguably Orlando’s last top pick.

With that being said, you can draw some conclusions as to which direction they are heading.

Fultz had the worst advanced stats of the group, doesnt fit with both Franz and Paolo and we drafted player at his perceived role.
Conclusion ?
We will resign Fultz at 25M+.
I have quite different opinion.

Whatever makes the least amount of sense will be what they will do.

[Skybox]

Cole and Suggs were the best combo as a backcourt for Orlando last season. They also selected Black as the lead guard and playmaker with arguably Orlando’s last top pick.

With that being said, you can draw some conclusions as to which direction they are heading.

I really hope you’re right…you’ve got to go with upside, not best of what’s laying around the house. Frontcourt’s here and extension clocks are ticking. We should do something yesterday.

[Audi]

Cole and Suggs were the best combo as a backcourt for Orlando last season. They also selected Black as the lead guard and playmaker with arguably Orlando’s last top pick.

With that being said, you can draw some conclusions as to which direction they are heading.

Playing against bench units, I presume.

[Skybox]

There’s a lot of individual potential among our guard stew. A truly great FO wouldn’t look to what we have on hand but what we want to be or what we need from our backcourt to compete. Basketball is such a TEAM sport, chemistry and complimentary skills are so important. When you get to the NBA level, some star power is a must (to build around) but team chemistry is no less important. There’s not been a player in history that could drag a bad team to contention by himself.

I hope Weltman is enjoying the talent-hoarding and assessment period of the rebuild and is now plotting the next phase. It’s so easy to say “don’t trade player X- he’s really good”, but there comes a point where you make hard decisions about what’s going to work around your best players…then trade guys for what you need, even if an individual trade looks like a value loss. Sometimes there’s even addition by subtraction (even if it’s a good player who happens to be on the wrong team).

We have to remember that trading a player doesn’t mean we think he’ll never be a good player or isn’t a good player now. Loyalty to individual players is counter to building winning teams.

For example, Jett might not be an ideal complete SG, but if he can hit 4 out of 10 3’s every night, you have to consider what that might mean for Paolo, Franz, Fultz or, eventually, Black…even if Suggs might be a “better player”.

If defensive domination is the vision. Maybe it’s Cole (or someone like Cole) at PG to allow Suggs to be on the floor.

I’m kind of hoping we drafted our near-future starting backcourt this summer…2 big guys with perfectly matched skills. Both with holes in their games at this point, but both bringing higher-level respective skillsets than our present starters. Jett’s probably a better scorer than any of our guards, maybe even right now-if he gets the green light, and Black brings everything Jett doesn’t. I really hope that’s the vision…or, I really hope there IS a vision, that’s coming together.

[Fortune Teller]

I’m concerned that Black is going to struggle getting his shot up. Definitely anxious to see him in real games.

[Skybox]

Bleacher Report had an article today, "One Word to Describe Each Team's Offseason"...ORL was "Congested"

while I generally find national media coverage of ORL to be lazy and superficial (or just ignorant and wrong), I think they nailed in one word what I generally say in 1,000

I had much higher hopes for a summer with cap space and two lottery picks along with an extra near future pick, large expiring salaries (with potentially productive players attached), excess prospects, etc to play with to bolster our promising young core.

I'm skeptical but hopeful that A) they made the right picks -again and, B) they actually put them in the game in meaningful roles and minutes.

Maybe I'm wrong to want to Tyler Herro - maybe Jett is the man and maybe Suggs has another offensive gear ready to go
Maybe I'm wrong to jettison Fultz, maybe his 3pt shot and ability to draw fouls is also on the launch pad and/or maybe Black is here to replace him.

Ideally, by mid-season, Jett Black is our perfectly formed starting backcourt and Cole and Suggs are battling each other for 6MOY
also, Fultz and Harris bring back a significant trade return and Isaac is playing 20mpg, demolishing opponents' offensive plans, from all 3 frontcourt positions. Ingles is just having fun, stirring s**t, making 3's and heady plays on both ends, and playing big brother to our budding young players.

[tiderulz]

Bleacher Report had an article today, "One Word to Describe Each Team's Offseason"...ORL was "Congested"

while I generally find national media coverage of ORL to be lazy and superficial (or just ignorant and wrong), I think they nailed in one word what I generally say in 1,000

I had much higher hopes for a summer with cap space and two lottery picks along with an extra near future pick, large expiring salaries (with potentially productive players attached), excess prospects, etc to play with to bolster our promising young core.

I'm skeptical but hopeful that A) they made the right picks -again and, B) they actually put them in the game in meaningful roles and minutes.

Maybe I'm wrong to want to Tyler Herro - maybe Jett is the man and maybe Suggs has another offensive gear ready to go
Maybe I'm wrong to jettison Fultz, maybe his 3pt shot and ability to draw fouls is also on the launch pad and/or maybe Black is here to replace him.

Ideally, by mid-season, Jett Black is our perfectly formed starting backcourt and Cole and Suggs are battling each other for 6MOY
also, Fultz and Harris bring back a significant trade return and Isaac is playing 20mpg, demolishing opponents' offensive plans, from all 3 frontcourt positions. Ingles is just having fun, stirring s**t, making 3's and heady plays on both ends, and playing big brother to our budding young players.

while i think Herro is overpaid, he is a legit shooter and decent passer (though bad defender) that would make the team better. i personally would have liked Simons as a better fit. If Suggs shot still looks broken, i wouldnt hate offering one of the owed 1sts for Herro to Miami for Herro and move on from worrying about the SG spot anymore

[J the Drafter]

Like I’ve said before, I would prefer that a strategy be formed according to the players on the team instead of dumping talent in order to conform to a strategy.

So much of the perceived dilemma is a result of people here blocking off options; people refuse to consider a Cole/Suggs/Fultz/Black guard rotation even though it keeps all of our productive point guards and offers more passing, driving and ballhandling to the starting lineup.

[Skybox]

Like I’ve said before, I would prefer that a strategy be formed according to the players on the team instead of dumping talent in order to conform to a strategy.

So much of the perceived dilemma is a result of people here blocking off options; people refuse to consider a Cole/Suggs/Fultz/Black guard rotation even though it keeps all of our productive point guards and offers more passing, driving and ballhandling to the starting lineup.

Why lock in mediocrity?...we had a "highly encouraging" 34 win season. There should be a substantial improvement in each young player and some attributed to chemistry/familiarity, but how far does that realistically take you? Why even have a GM? Take BPA year after year and hope they fit...uh uh

Also, when you score a big hitter like Paolo (and, to a less highly visible extent, Franz)...you're on the clock. Improve aggressively or implode with overpays, extensions, passive depreciation of culture. Fish, Fish, Fish...then when you catch one, the job really starts in earnest. That's where we are and it's a good thing...No success to celebrate, just now becoming an opportunity not to be wasted.

[J the Drafter]

Why lock in mediocrity?...we had a "highly encouraging" 34 win season. There should be a substantial improvement in each young player and some attributed to chemistry/familiarity, but how far does that realistically take you? Why even have a GM? Take BPA year after year and hope they fit...uh uh

Also, when you score a big hitter like Paolo (and, to a less highly visible extent, Franz)...you're on the clock. Improve aggressively or implode with overpays, extensions, passive depreciation of culture. Fish, Fish, Fish...then when you catch one, the job really starts in earnest. That's where we are and it's a good thing...No success to celebrate, just now becoming an opportunity not to be wasted.

Your idea of improvement seems centered around getting rid of players. You’re willing to sacrifice too much in the name of shooting. More shooting is good, but not at the expense of defense, passing and driving.

[VFX]

Like I’ve said before, I would prefer that a strategy be formed according to the players on the team instead of dumping talent in order to conform to a strategy.

So much of the perceived dilemma is a result of people here blocking off options; people refuse to consider a Cole/Suggs/Fultz/Black guard rotation even though it keeps all of our productive point guards and offers more passing, driving and ballhandling to the starting lineup.

What is your realistic minute distribution between the guards?

[Bensational]

Also, when you score a big hitter like Paolo (and, to a less highly visible extent, Franz)...you're on the clock. Improve aggressively or implode with overpays, extensions, passive depreciation of culture. Fish, Fish, Fish...then when you catch one, the job really starts in earnest. That's where we are and it's a good thing...No success to celebrate, just now becoming an opportunity not to be wasted.

It’s a 7-8 year clock and we’ve yet to start playing year 2. It’s simply too early to move for ‘best fit’ pieces now. Look how many years it took for teams like Milwaukee, Boston, Denver and Philly who have all been built through the draft (initially), who are present day contenders. It took them years to get here.

Part of the trick is knowing that if you have poor fitting pieces but one still has a higher ceiling than most of the available better fit guys, then you’ve gotta maximise the development to trade them for peak value. If we have to trade Fultz/Cole/Suggs/Black/etc, then let’s make sure we trade them for the guy who will put us over the top like AG, or Horford, or Paul, instead of moving guys for mediocre and overpaid guys now like FVV.