Jordan or West, who maintains a higher % of value

[penbeast0]

Jordan is roughly equidistant between the prime of Jerry West and today's game. Who maintains a higher % of their value moved forward 25 years or so? Each gets the benefit of better equipment, training, etc. moving forward but not having grown up in the era and neither significantly changes his game. This is not who was the better player, that was Jordan. It's about how much and in what ways the game changed between the 60s to the 90s and the 90s to the 20s.

[70sFan]

I have been very vocal about the 1960s being closer to the 1990s than the 1990s to the 2020s and I haven't changed my mind.

[Colbinii]

West in the 1990s would run through the league. He would easily be the best guard in that era.

[70sFan]

West in the 1990s would run through the league. He would easily be the best guard in that era.

The best PG you mean? I don't think he'd be better than Jordan.

[Colbinii]

West in the 1990s would run through the league. He would easily be the best guard in that era.

The best PG you mean? I don't think he'd be better than Jordan.

I was assuming Jordan wouldn't be there.

[70sFan]

West in the 1990s would run through the league. He would easily be the best guard in that era.

The best PG you mean? I don't think he'd be better than Jordan.

I was assuming Jordan wouldn't be there.

Then 100% agree, after Magic retirement no guard would even approach West in the 1990s.

[penbeast0]

What percentage of his value from the 90s would you guess that Jordan would have today in the era of pace and space? And what percentage of West's value is maintained in the post Bird/Magic era and how would that compare to the likes of Barkley, Hakeem, Karl Malone, etc. from Jordan's era (assuming he still is a playoff riser for a perpetual contender but with a lot of title losses rather than rings)?

[Cavsfansince84]

If you put West's rookie year in 85 I think he retains roughly 97% of his value. I think competition had improved enough he'd lose a little but makes up for it in other ways. I think his value goes up to a higher ceiling though once he adjusts so by 91-94 he's maybe at 104% value relative to 66-69(much like Bird's value went up as he adjusted to the 3pt line). Plus he's playing less minutes which takes away some value but adds to it on a per minute and less grind basis. Plus obviously better shoes, lax dribbling rules etc.
Putting MJ in 2010(rookie) I think he's at 94-96% early on but as we get into the 2016+ years his value probably exceeds what it was in 91 and afterwards due to spacing and whatnot. So maybe he goes up to 103%.

[tmorgan]

Trying to imagine Jordan is today’s game without changing his style of play is a fun exercise.

Far fewer defensive centers to challenge him, for one. More space to drive for another. Even so, one has to wonder how a hyper-athletic DeMar DeRozen would be received, as his shots are definitely not preferred shots these days.

[penbeast0]

If you put West's rookie year in 85 I think he retains roughly 97% of his value. I think competition had improved enough he'd lose a little but makes up for it in other ways. I think his value goes up to a higher ceiling though once he adjusts so by 91-94 he's maybe at 104% value relative to 66-69(much like Bird's value went up as he adjusted to the 3pt line). Plus he's playing less minutes which takes away some value but adds to it on a per minute and less grind basis. Plus obviously better shoes, lax dribbling rules etc.
Putting MJ in 2010(rookie) I think he's at 94-96% early on but as we get into the 2016+ years his value probably exceeds what it was in 91 and afterwards due to spacing and whatnot. So maybe he goes up to 103%.

Interesting, so you don't feel the average talent in the league has improved in a baseline sense (not skill sets but just the number of potential players increasing faster than the number of NBA jobs due to the influx of world players and increased world population though mitigated by expansion)?

Or you just think that's a lesser factor than the gradual evolution of the game away from the dominance of the big man pivot to the on the floor wing scorer?

[MyUniBroDavis]

If you put West's rookie year in 85 I think he retains roughly 97% of his value. I think competition had improved enough he'd lose a little but makes up for it in other ways. I think his value goes up to a higher ceiling though once he adjusts so by 91-94 he's maybe at 104% value relative to 66-69(much like Bird's value went up as he adjusted to the 3pt line). Plus he's playing less minutes which takes away some value but adds to it on a per minute and less grind basis. Plus obviously better shoes, lax dribbling rules etc.
Putting MJ in 2010(rookie) I think he's at 94-96% early on but as we get into the 2016+ years his value probably exceeds what it was in 91 and afterwards due to spacing and whatnot. So maybe he goes up to 103%.

Interesting, so you don't feel the average talent in the league has improved in a baseline sense (not skill sets but just the number of potential players increasing faster than the number of NBA jobs due to the influx of world players and increased world population though mitigated by expansion)?

Or you just think that's a lesser factor than the gradual evolution of the game away from the dominance of the big man pivot to the on the floor wing scorer?

He’s talking about the spacing revolution allowing top tier isolation scorers to utilize that strength far better than in the early 2000s

[penbeast0]

...

Or you just think that's a lesser factor than the gradual evolution of the game away from the dominance of the big man pivot to the on the floor wing scorer?

He’s talking about the spacing revolution allowing top tier isolation scorers to utilize that strength far better than in the early 2000s

I think that's what I was trying to say with the line I quoted from myself. Of course, the 90s were also an era focused very highly on isolation scoring using side overloads and illegal defense rules rather than spacing to achieve that effect.

[MyUniBroDavis]

...

Or you just think that's a lesser factor than the gradual evolution of the game away from the dominance of the big man pivot to the on the floor wing scorer?

He’s talking about the spacing revolution allowing top tier isolation scorers to utilize that strength far better than in the early 2000s

I think that's what I was trying to say with the line I quoted from myself. Of course, the 90s were also an era focused very highly on isolation scoring using side overloads and illegal defense rules rather than spacing to achieve that effect.

Yeah, it’s why we see such a drastic Effeciency drop in the super late 90s and early 2000s for superstar wing and iso guys inside the arc, and it went up for guys that went more pick and roll

[Cavsfansince84]

Interesting, so you don't feel the average talent in the league has improved in a baseline sense (not skill sets but just the number of potential players increasing faster than the number of NBA jobs due to the influx of world players and increased world population though mitigated by expansion)?

Or you just think that's a lesser factor than the gradual evolution of the game away from the dominance of the big man pivot to the on the floor wing scorer?

I think baseline/average player skill and probably athleticism has increased by quite a bit but I think it tends to overload towards ORtg nowadays and ability to keep up on defense. Which is my way of saying I don't think it does much to stop the very best players from doing what they want to do on the court but it's generally much harder to be a top 8 player on a team now compared to 40 years ago.