The Trey Lance thread

[Harry Palmer]

National media has had it out for Lance unlike any prospect I can really ever recall. Shoot, Zach Wilson was taken before him, has played a heck of a lot more, and totally flamed out, and he didn't catch all the heat that Lance has from the national media.

My theory has been, and continues to be, that a ton of guys in the media guaranteed that Mac Jones was the pick, and they got embarrassed when Lance was the pick. Even though it isn't logical to take that out on Lance, many of them seem to have done so. They seem to relish his struggles.

Lance has had some really tough breaks. It's not his fault Covid wiped out basically a full college season and left him remarkably raw. It's not his fault that John and Kyle traded up to #3 months before the draft without having actually scouted these guys and not knowing who they were targeting. It's not his fault they gave up three first round picks to take him. It's not his fault that, when the FO did scout him, they apparently didn't realize that he was going to be a major project. It's not his fault he got hurt (though the ankle was a play where he did a crappy job of protecting himself, so maybe he's a little responsible for that).

But as with Alex Smith early in his career, you can have tons of legitimate excuses for poor performance, but eventually, as said above, you've got to show that you can play in the league. Trey hasn't done that. Looks like, barring at least one injury and maybe two, he won't get the chance to do that.

I agree that he seems to draw more fire than his extremely limited playing time thus far should, but I think the disparity has more to do with how much his team is seen as requiring bare minimums to succeed in, and the perception that he’s failing spectacularly at even that. Again, to me his limited playing time both before and after being drafted don’t come anywhere near being evidence of anything g yet, and the real fire for misaligned windows ought to be squarely on management or the injury gods, but then I have always felt that football fans in general accept as given the generalization of being or not being injured somehow linked to a player’s abilities way more generally than makes any sense if you look at the randomness of how those injuries have often occurred. Being able to play through dings might be an ability, but being able to play on a broken leg is not, nor is the way your bones react when 300 pounds of intent are suddenly applied at the wrong angle. But that’s ~ accepted as part of a skill set, so I’m used to not understanding generalized football truths.

The one thing I will say that is both definitive and negative and imo was kinda apparent from really early on is that he did not really belong in the conversation with the super freaks with which he was compared. I get to a degree why it happened, he is a good athlete with size and arm strength, but he’s just not as sudden as those guys, imo his athleticism is enough to play as a safety valve, not as a feature. I think he’s fast if you’re expecting him to be a non-runner but slow if you are, kinda. Maybe if he was showing the kinds of abilities his comps were people would see more reason to just wait for the ~ inevitable to click, but as is, through no fault of his own, I think there’s a slight sense of fraudulence when people watch him with those expectations. Can’t say how much that contributes to the narrative, but it’s probably at least a factor. Again, though, that should be aimed higher, he never pretended to be anything he isn’t.

[Dodub]

Jesse has the all 22 and it’s not quite as bad as I thought it was. He needs to work on his timing and confidence. I still think he will develop into a good QB, but I don’t think it’ll be here sadly.

https://www.youtube.com/live/fG3DGEdRtXM?feature=share

[Dodub]

National media has had it out for Lance unlike any prospect I can really ever recall. Shoot, Zach Wilson was taken before him, has played a heck of a lot more, and totally flamed out, and he didn't catch all the heat that Lance has from the national media.

My theory has been, and continues to be, that a ton of guys in the media guaranteed that Mac Jones was the pick, and they got embarrassed when Lance was the pick. Even though it isn't logical to take that out on Lance, many of them seem to have done so. They seem to relish his struggles.

Lance has had some really tough breaks. It's not his fault Covid wiped out basically a full college season and left him remarkably raw. It's not his fault that John and Kyle traded up to #3 months before the draft without having actually scouted these guys and not knowing who they were targeting. It's not his fault they gave up three first round picks to take him. It's not his fault that, when the FO did scout him, they apparently didn't realize that he was going to be a major project. It's not his fault he got hurt (though the ankle was a play where he did a crappy job of protecting himself, so maybe he's a little responsible for that).

But as with Alex Smith early in his career, you can have tons of legitimate excuses for poor performance, but eventually, as said above, you've got to show that you can play in the league. Trey hasn't done that. Looks like, barring at least one injury and maybe two, he won't get the chance to do that.

I’ve completely stopped watching National media due to this situation. They clearly have it out for the kid.

They’ve covered Lance more than the actual QB1 when Purdy has been awful all offseason. Of course they will say that “he’s just rusty” without realizing that Trey has been away from actual games longer than Purdy.

[Harry Palmer]

Jesse has the all 22 and it’s not quite as bad as I thought it was. He needs to work on his timing and confidence. I still think he will develop into a good QB, but I don’t think it’ll be here sadly.

https://www.youtube.com/live/fG3DGEdRtXM?feature=share

Watched the first two series, crashing now but thanks for the link, will finish when I’m awake. I’m sub’d to LSS, but to a bunch of other 9ers content too…different flavours for different needs, so I might have missed this w/o your post, cheers.

[wco81]

If Jordan Love has a good season as many expect that he will, it may indicate that the 49ers development coaching isn't up to snuff.

I can see Kyle being uninterested in holding Trey's hand when he thinks the 49ers window is now.

He may be convinced that Purdy is the real thing or he's thinking the rest of the roster is good enough and Purdy just has to be very good, not great.

Or Purdy may yet show that his ceiling is like that of the typical 7th rounder.

But Purdy is also developing so Kyle can't afford to give Trey more reps or his time at Purdy's expense.

There may come a point when it's apparent that the team needs more than what Purdy can produce to get them where they want to get to. At that point, Lance may already be long gone.

Or Kyle may have already decided he can't turn Lance into someone who can raise the ceiling of the whole team, which currently is just a step or two below championship level.

[CrimsonCrew]

National media has had it out for Lance unlike any prospect I can really ever recall. Shoot, Zach Wilson was taken before him, has played a heck of a lot more, and totally flamed out, and he didn't catch all the heat that Lance has from the national media.

My theory has been, and continues to be, that a ton of guys in the media guaranteed that Mac Jones was the pick, and they got embarrassed when Lance was the pick. Even though it isn't logical to take that out on Lance, many of them seem to have done so. They seem to relish his struggles.

Lance has had some really tough breaks. It's not his fault Covid wiped out basically a full college season and left him remarkably raw. It's not his fault that John and Kyle traded up to #3 months before the draft without having actually scouted these guys and not knowing who they were targeting. It's not his fault they gave up three first round picks to take him. It's not his fault that, when the FO did scout him, they apparently didn't realize that he was going to be a major project. It's not his fault he got hurt (though the ankle was a play where he did a crappy job of protecting himself, so maybe he's a little responsible for that).

But as with Alex Smith early in his career, you can have tons of legitimate excuses for poor performance, but eventually, as said above, you've got to show that you can play in the league. Trey hasn't done that. Looks like, barring at least one injury and maybe two, he won't get the chance to do that.

I agree that he seems to draw more fire than his extremely limited playing time thus far should, but I think the disparity has more to do with how much his team is seen as requiring bare minimums to succeed in, and the perception that he’s failing spectacularly at even that. Again, to me his limited playing time both before and after being drafted don’t come anywhere near being evidence of anything g yet, and the real fire for misaligned windows ought to be squarely on management or the injury gods, but then I have always felt that football fans in general accept as given the generalization of being or not being injured somehow linked to a player’s abilities way more generally than makes any sense if you look at the randomness of how those injuries have often occurred. Being able to play through dings might be an ability, but being able to play on a broken leg is not, nor is the way your bones react when 300 pounds of intent are suddenly applied at the wrong angle. But that’s ~ accepted as part of a skill set, so I’m used to not understanding generalized football truths.

The one thing I will say that is both definitive and negative and imo was kinda apparent from really early on is that he did not really belong in the conversation with the super freaks with which he was compared. I get to a degree why it happened, he is a good athlete with size and arm strength, but he’s just not as sudden as those guys, imo his athleticism is enough to play as a safety valve, not as a feature. I think he’s fast if you’re expecting him to be a non-runner but slow if you are, kinda. Maybe if he was showing the kinds of abilities his comps were people would see more reason to just wait for the ~ inevitable to click, but as is, through no fault of his own, I think there’s a slight sense of fraudulence when people watch him with those expectations. Can’t say how much that contributes to the narrative, but it’s probably at least a factor. Again, though, that should be aimed higher, he never pretended to be anything he isn’t.

Yeah, one of the questions I raised when I scouted Lance and Fields was all the people ranking Lance as the best runner in the class. He did a lot more of it, especially designed runs, but Fields was pretty clearly the more explosive athlete (I compared Fields to a smaller Cam Newton). It's not that Lance is unathletic, but he's not dynamic, and he didn't make guys miss in college so much as he ran through them. He did show a good understanding of footwork and angles running up the middle in college. But I don't think an NFL QB can make a go of it long-term with those kinds of plays. As we saw last year.

[CrimsonCrew]

Jesse has the all 22 and it’s not quite as bad as I thought it was. He needs to work on his timing and confidence. I still think he will develop into a good QB, but I don’t think it’ll be here sadly.

https://www.youtube.com/live/fG3DGEdRtXM?feature=share

Watched the first two series, crashing now but thanks for the link, will finish when I’m awake. I’m sub’d to LSS, but to a bunch of other 9ers content too…different flavours for different needs, so I might have missed this w/o your post, cheers.

I watched most of it. And I agree, Lance's play is not as bad as my initial impression. His vision still needs to improve. He makes the reads, but he needs to be able to recognize what is open in the NFL. The third-down sack on the first drive is a good example where he just needs to throw it, granted it probably wouldn't have converted the first down. Same thing with the first play after the TD when he took another sack. He had Conley (I think) coming open. In the NFL, you've just got to recognize almost imperceptible movements of the defenders and take advantage of them. It's that sort of recognition that sets the good-to-great QBs apart. Lance isn't nearly there yet. And as said, I don't think he'll have the chance to get there on this team.

He does make some nice plays avoiding pressure, getting the ball out on the move. And when he did see it today, he had some nice throws. I think there's a solid chance that he develops into at least a solid QB, with upside once he has time to play and the game (presumably) slows down for him, which is part of what is so frustrating about this situation. The kid ticks all the boxes off the field, really smart, really hard worker, takes ownership. He ticks a lot on the field, too, with his arm talent and athleticism, even if it isn't elite. But I can't see him on this team long-term, unfortunately.

And man, Matt Pryor is garbage. How is that guy an experienced vet? I don't know that he cleanly blocked his guy once. Even in the running game, he'd run around looking for someone to block without actually doing it. So irritating that we took Latu and Moody in the third instead of a guy who might make the roster ahead of Pryor. Oh, but hey, that OT might not have started, so why even bother? We'd better hope Trent stays healthy and McKivitz can hold up. If either guy misses more than a game or two, we're in real trouble.

Zakelj was also even worse than I realized. Ugh. Joey Fisher's got a real shot to make this squad. Poe was better, but still a bit shaky, and there were some plays where his lack of length appeared to cause problems.

[Cactus Jack]

Watch on YouTube

I forgot that J.T. was a Niner at one time. But I love his video's.

[Pattersonca65]

Watch on YouTube

I forgot that J.T. was a Niner at one time. But I love his video's.

His nickname from his 49er days was JTO - Just Turnit Over for his penchant for throwing picks

[CrimsonCrew]

Watch on YouTube

I forgot that J.T. was a Niner at one time. But I love his video's.

His nickname from his 49er days was JTO - Just Turnit Over for his penchant for throwing picks

He was a bad NFL QB. But his reviews of QBs are quite fair IMO. And I think he's spot on about Lance turning down open (in NFL terms, anyway) throws.

In terms of the early outlet to the TE (second play?), Lance definitely doesn't look to what JTO thinks is the second read, the deep curl to the right. Not sure if Lance was wrong in how he read it, or JTO is misjudging, but his head does not go to the right.

[Dodub]

Watch on YouTube

I forgot that J.T. was a Niner at one time. But I love his video's.

His nickname from his 49er days was JTO - Just Turnit Over for his penchant for throwing picks

He was a bad NFL QB. But his reviews of QBs are quite fair IMO. And I think he's spot on about Lance turning down open (in NFL terms, anyway) throws.

In terms of the early outlet to the TE (second play?), Lance definitely doesn't look to what JTO thinks is the second read, the deep curl to the right. Not sure if Lance was wrong in how he read it, or JTO is misjudging, but his head does not go to the right.

I completely agree with what JTO was saying. Him “turning down” some of these looks is completely due to confidence. This kid has only been crapped on since he entered the league and I believe that it’s 100% because he dumped Cowherds daughter.

[Harry Palmer]

believe that it’s 100% because he dumped Cowherds daughter.

What’s this? I somehow missed this entirely. Colin Cowherd?

[Harry Palmer]

Jesse has the all 22 and it’s not quite as bad as I thought it was. He needs to work on his timing and confidence. I still think he will develop into a good QB, but I don’t think it’ll be here sadly.

https://www.youtube.com/live/fG3DGEdRtXM?feature=share

Watched the first two series, crashing now but thanks for the link, will finish when I’m awake. I’m sub’d to LSS, but to a bunch of other 9ers content too…different flavours for different needs, so I might have missed this w/o your post, cheers.

I watched most of it. And I agree, Lance's play is not as bad as my initial impression. His vision still needs to improve. He makes the reads, but he needs to be able to recognize what is open in the NFL. The third-down sack on the first drive is a good example where he just needs to throw it, granted it probably wouldn't have converted the first down. Same thing with the first play after the TD when he took another sack. He had Conley (I think) coming open. In the NFL, you've just got to recognize almost imperceptible movements of the defenders and take advantage of them. It's that sort of recognition that sets the good-to-great QBs apart. Lance isn't nearly there yet. And as said, I don't think he'll have the chance to get there on this team.

He does make some nice plays avoiding pressure, getting the ball out on the move. And when he did see it today, he had some nice throws. I think there's a solid chance that he develops into at least a solid QB, with upside once he has time to play and the game (presumably) slows down for him, which is part of what is so frustrating about this situation. The kid ticks all the boxes off the field, really smart, really hard worker, takes ownership. He ticks a lot on the field, too, with his arm talent and athleticism, even if it isn't elite. But I can't see him on this team long-term, unfortunately.

And man, Matt Pryor is garbage. How is that guy an experienced vet? I don't know that he cleanly blocked his guy once. Even in the running game, he'd run around looking for someone to block without actually doing it. So irritating that we took Latu and Moody in the third instead of a guy who might make the roster ahead of Pryor. Oh, but hey, that OT might not have started, so why even bother? We'd better hope Trent stays healthy and McKivitz can hold up. If either guy misses more than a game or two, we're in real trouble.

Zakelj was also even worse than I realized. Ugh. Joey Fisher's got a real shot to make this squad. Poe was better, but still a bit shaky, and there were some plays where his lack of length appeared to cause problems.

I’ve changed my mind back and forth since finishing the 22’s, but generally I still think he did not play nearly as bad as people talked, and I think the primary issue (confidence) went up as the game went on, and though that’s what got all the noise I think we need to see him throw some INTs, we want that kind of mistake from him. He’s got a gun but if he keeps it holstered and keeps having fist fights it’s not gonna help, and to his credit he did. He does generally get better as games go on, and of course with his incredibly small body of work there’s going to be greater variance. But as games go on he varies towards erring where we want him to. Or at least should, I have no idea how Kyle handles that stuff, his fair weather support might be the making of Trey or might leave him thinking he can’t afford any mistakes until it’s obvious to everyone that that’s a mistake, and then he opens up.

I will say what I posted earlier before deciding I didn’t know how much of what I wrote I totally believed; the biggest thing in the game to me, that I was watching for, was does the cliche about mechanical changes under fire prove true? And that’s where I’ve always seen the one advantage of his limited experience, his muscle memory is not as deep. And his mechanics seemed to stay improved for the overwhelming majority, even if a couple times it had him thinking too much. And I say that that’s one of the two biggest issues, that and the up and down confidence, but one step at a time (ideally) and the one should eventually inform the other. If he had had better stats but the loop was back, everyone would be taking about that, and with good cause. But it was his first half of pro ball in almost a year, built on a foundation of rice paper, so the over analysis of this is weird. And again, if the deciding issue is misaligned windows, that’s 109% on the FO, not on Lance.

I am not at all certain he’ll get there, but I saw more reason to see the mountaintop, he does have a really nice package. And yeah, might not happen here. But otoh it might. I am not even shutting off potential greatness, it’s such a unique set of circumstances. But he also might be out of the league fairly soon…it’s so wide open. But everything he has had to say about it, he keeps saying the right things, he works hard, he’s apparently a great teammate, I can even see leadership if/when he gets his camera out of his picture. But yeah, might be we’re pounding and ~ cooking the rice and someone else will eat it.

If we didn’t have Purdy I’d be more than okay with rolling with him, ups and downs, see what we’ve got. As in I’d be excited and nervous. But that’s part of sports, the adventure. No one watches clocks for fun. But the worst thing I saw all day wasn’t on the field, his body language after the game was rough, he looked beat up, he needs handling right now. And to be fair, for once Kyle seemed to get it and his comments were more coach-talk than his normal ‘I’m above that stuff’ demeanour. What that means we’ll have to wait and see.

[CrimsonCrew]

Finished JT's video. Man. That was brutal to watch from a QB's perspective. First live action since the injury, so maybe Trey shakes it off and comes back with a good game this week, but he's just not where he needs to be going into year three. Again, tons of legit excuses, but at the end of the day, if he can't make these plays, he won't be making any plays on this team.

[Pattersonca65]

Watch on YouTube

I forgot that J.T. was a Niner at one time. But I love his video's.

His nickname from his 49er days was JTO - Just Turnit Over for his penchant for throwing picks

He was a bad NFL QB. But his reviews of QBs are quite fair IMO. And I think he's spot on about Lance turning down open (in NFL terms, anyway) throws.

In terms of the early outlet to the TE (second play?), Lance definitely doesn't look to what JTO thinks is the second read, the deep curl to the right. Not sure if Lance was wrong in how he read it, or JTO is misjudging, but his head does not go to the right.

I haven't watched any of his videos yet

[thesack12]

I'm going to preface this post saying that after they made the trade to #3, Zach Wilson was my desired target. Once it became obvious that the Jets were going to take Wilson at 2, I then pivoted to Justin Fields being my preferred prospect. That said, I was not upset with Lance, as I saw him as high upside pick albeit a very raw one. At the time, I mentioned several times that I MUCH preferred the boom or bust type prospect like Lance, as opposed to the low ceiling / (relatively) high floor type like Mac Jones.

I'm not sure why some people are surprised or seemingly offended by the criticism Trey has received from the media. Bagging on 49er QB's has been en vogue for at least a decade now. Kaepernick (pre-protests) and Garoppolo never were given a lot of flowers from the media, despite both having pretty notable success. In Trey's case, he's literally done nothing. Granted he's hasn't really had much opportunity to do anything, still in the limited opportunities he's had he hasn't shown much.

I also find it ironic that some folks are claiming that Kyle can't develop QB's. The funny part about that take, is it completely disregards the 7th round rookie that has surpassed Trey Lance. I don't think some people realize just how impressive it is that Purdy played as well as he did last season. That's both from a coaching standpoint and praise for Brock himself. Going beyond Brock, Kyle got elite efficiency from Garoppolo as well as turning him into a top 12-15 QB despite limited raw talent. Kyle developed Nick Mullens (an undrafted guy) into a decent backup/spot starter. Kyle developed CJ Beathard who is still in the league as a backup. Kyle transformed Matt Ryan into an MVP. Kyle helped RG3 win ROY and turned him into a superstar for a short time, and also played a large role into the early development of Kirk Cousins. The notion that Kyle can't develop QB's is complete rubbish in my opinion.

To build on the Kyle angle a bit further, many people claim that his system is super QB friendly and makes the quarterback look better than they actually are. If we are going to employ that claim, then don't we also have to give Kyle some credit for "developing" quarterback play? Which coincidentally enough, if the system is indeed mostly about the structure and less about the QB specifically, then why is Lance struggling so badly?

First round QB's flame out constantly, even ones taken at the top of the draft. Sometimes guys just don't develop, busts can and do happen frequently. Of course we would all like to see more of Trey on the field before we start throwing that B word around. But if Trey doesn't develop, its pretty short sighted to say that Kyle can't develop QB's.

I also hear a little bit of chatter of people trying to play the racisim card in regards to how Lance is supposedly treated by the organization. While that topic is not one that I want to elaborate on a whole lot, I will say that if racism was as big of a factor in how the organization views/treats Lance, then why would they have drafted him in the first place? Lance was not inherited by this regime. Trey is their guy, and it cost them a ton to get him.

To reflect on the thoughts of some other posters in this thread, while yes there are a lot of things that are absolutely not Lance's fault. Such as covid effects, injuries, the team situation he got drafted into, etc. Still those factors can't be disregarded.

Trey Lance was a pretty unique prospect going into his draft. He really only played 1 season, in a low level of college football at that. He attempted the fewest collegiate passes of any QB ever taken in the first 1st round in NFL history. In fact, since he entered college in 2018 Lance has barely thrown 400 passes in competition (including preseason games.) Yesterday Dan Orlovsky made a point that there were several college QB's who attempted more passes in a couple month span, than Trey has in the last 5 seasons combined.

The 49ers holding the #3 pick in the 2021 NFL draft, was also a pretty unique situation. They were a legitimate super bowl contender, and in their eyes they felt they needed an upgrade at QB to get them over the hump. Its exceedingly rare that a contender holds a top 3 pick, let alone have a #3 pick in addition to openly trying to upgrade the QB position. In other words QB's picked that high in the draft almost universally go to terrible teams. What is one thing terrible teams usually have in common? They have the means to be patient and allow young QB's to be thrown into the fire from jump and take their lumps. A super bowl contender, can't throw a young QB to the wolves, because those guys have high potential to have a low floor level of play/production. Allowing a young QB to take his lumps while simultaneously trying to compete at a high level, really aren't parallel paths.

So having said that, would lead you to believe that drafting a super raw prospect into a contender might not have been the best idea. Which is a completely logical take, however if you consider they made that trade/pick with the thought process that you had a solid QB already in house, and were looking at the longer term vision then it starts to make a lot of sense. Having Jimmy in the fold, afforded the time to be able to have Trey basically redshirt as a rookie and develop. Which is actually how they approached going into last season, they obviously fully intended to hand the keys to Trey and they did. Unfortunately, he got hurt early in week 2, which de-railed their plans/vision. Nobody would have expected Mr Irrelevant to step in and play at such a high level, and maintain the team's ability to be a legit contender.

Again its not Trey's fault that he got hurt, nor is it Trey's fault that Jimmy got hurt which allowed Purdy to get his opportunity. Unfortunately for Trey, Purdy absolutely took full advantage of his opportunity and proved that he is capable of helping the team remain a contender. Trey has not proved that, so its really not surprising that Brock has surpassed Lance.

The criticism of making the trade itself (and who they picked) is certainly valid and warranted depending on your point of view. But for me personally, I actually give a lot of credit to Kyle, etc for not feeling the pressure to play Trey simply because of his draft position. It would be easy to plug in Trey simply because he cost so much and was drafted so high, hell that kind of stuff happens constantly league wide. But if they feel Trey either doesn't give the team the best chance to win and/or feel he isn't the best long term prospect for this team, then credit to them for not falling into that dreaded sunken cost fallacy trap.

Having said all that, I'm not ready to give up on Trey and cut bait with him yet but man there isn't a whole lot of tangible things to continue to try and build hope on. As someone else posted, at some point he's going to have to show it. We can talk about potential until the cows come home, but potential isn't going to put W's on the board and apparently its not gonna get Trey on the field either.

And to bring this post full circle, as I alluded to in the 1st paragraph if Trey does end up flaming out while I will be quite disappointed, at the same time I will be ok with it. I would much prefer being able to make a clean break with a bust, as opposed to feeling like you need to hold on to an "ok" young QB then feeling to need to give that guy a big 2nd contract and thus force yourself to be committed to him for the next several years. Specifically talking about a guy like Mac Jones.

[Jikkle]

I also find it ironic that some folks are claiming that Kyle can't develop QB's. The funny part about that take, is it completely disregards the 7th round rookie that has surpassed Trey Lance. I don't think some people realize just how impressive it is that Purdy played as well as he did last season. That's both from a coaching standpoint and praise for Brock himself. Going beyond Brock, Kyle got elite efficiency from Garoppolo as well as turning him into a top 12-15 QB despite limited raw talent. Kyle developed Nick Mullens (an undrafted guy) into a decent backup/spot starter. Kyle developed CJ Beathard who is still in the league as a backup. Kyle transformed Matt Ryan into an MVP. Kyle helped RG3 win ROY and turned him into a superstar for a short time, and also played a large role into the early development of Kirk Cousins. The notion that Kyle can't develop QB's is complete rubbish in my opinion.

To build on the Kyle angle a bit further, many people claim that his system is super QB friendly and makes the quarterback look better than they actually are. If we are going to employ that claim, then don't we also have to give Kyle some credit for "developing" quarterback play? Which coincidentally enough, if the system is indeed mostly about the structure and less about the QB specifically, then why is Lance struggling so badly?

Purdy was about as pro-ready of a rookie as you can get so I wouldn't say Kyle "developed" him because Purdy is pretty much playing the same way he did in college just with the 49ers playbook.

The system is super QB friendly and there is nothing wrong with that but it is what it is. The thing with a QB in Kyle's system is it's pretty much boils down to whether you are able to digest the playbook and make the correct decision or not? It's definitely not an easy task for a QB but it's more of a you have it or you don't and less of it being developed.

Kyle will scheme a man open and it's up to the QB to be able to know what man that is and pull the trigger. It's why we built a team around YAC and it's why Jimmy G had success despite everyone knowing where he was going to throw the ball down the middle because Kyle still found ways to get guys open there.

But the systems biggest strength is one of it's biggest weakness because if the defense is defeating the scheme it simply barely functions so far we haven't had a QB under Shanahan that can put the team on it's back and play hero ball to win. The jury is still out on Purdy and maybe he can be that guy but we just haven't seen enough of him to say yes or no on that.

Lance's struggles basically boils down to his mechanics being poor until he made strides this offseason and experience. The reason reps are being stressed with Lance is he needs to see defenses and learn to trust his eyes more and pull the trigger. I never thought he struggled reading the field I thought he struggles in trusting what he sees and letting it rip and that would come with experience.

[thesack12]

I also find it ironic that some folks are claiming that Kyle can't develop QB's. The funny part about that take, is it completely disregards the 7th round rookie that has surpassed Trey Lance. I don't think some people realize just how impressive it is that Purdy played as well as he did last season. That's both from a coaching standpoint and praise for Brock himself. Going beyond Brock, Kyle got elite efficiency from Garoppolo as well as turning him into a top 12-15 QB despite limited raw talent. Kyle developed Nick Mullens (an undrafted guy) into a decent backup/spot starter. Kyle developed CJ Beathard who is still in the league as a backup. Kyle transformed Matt Ryan into an MVP. Kyle helped RG3 win ROY and turned him into a superstar for a short time, and also played a large role into the early development of Kirk Cousins. The notion that Kyle can't develop QB's is complete rubbish in my opinion.

To build on the Kyle angle a bit further, many people claim that his system is super QB friendly and makes the quarterback look better than they actually are. If we are going to employ that claim, then don't we also have to give Kyle some credit for "developing" quarterback play? Which coincidentally enough, if the system is indeed mostly about the structure and less about the QB specifically, then why is Lance struggling so badly?

Purdy was about as pro-ready of a rookie as you can get so I wouldn't say Kyle "developed" him because Purdy is pretty much playing the same way he did in college just with the 49ers playbook.

The system is super QB friendly and there is nothing wrong with that but it is what it is. The thing with a QB in Kyle's system is it's pretty much boils down to whether you are able to digest the playbook and make the correct decision or not? It's definitely not an easy task for a QB but it's more of a you have it or you don't and less of it being developed.

Kyle will scheme a man open and it's up to the QB to be able to know what man that is and pull the trigger. It's why we built a team around YAC and it's why Jimmy G had success despite everyone knowing where he was going to throw the ball down the middle because Kyle still found ways to get guys open there.

But the systems biggest strength is one of it's biggest weakness because if the defense is defeating the scheme it simply barely functions so far we haven't had a QB under Shanahan that can put the team on it's back and play hero ball to win. The jury is still out on Purdy and maybe he can be that guy but we just haven't seen enough of him to say yes or no on that.

Lance's struggles basically boils down to his mechanics being poor until he made strides this offseason and experience. The reason reps are being stressed with Lance is he needs to see defenses and learn to trust his eyes more and pull the trigger. I never thought he struggled reading the field I thought he struggles in trusting what he sees and letting it rip and that would come with experience.

I think you are way over-selling how pro-ready Purdy was and thus the caliber of prospect he was. I mean we are literally talking about the last pick of the draft, that also plays the hardest position is sports. If Purdy was THAT pro ready, he would have easily been drafted somewhere in the first 3 rounds. This league is perpetually starved for decent QB play, let alone dirt cheap effective QB play. Don't confuse experience/reps with pro-readiness. Its very, very rare that a rookie step in and excel immediately. Let alone being such a low drafted one. If all a guy needed was experience in a pro style offense to have success at the next level, we would see a helluva lot more QB's pan out than we actually do.

I agree with Kyle's system being QB friendly. What I don't agree with is, this narrative that exists that seemingly devalues the QB play in of itself almost entirely just because of the system. Also that Kyle apparently isn't able to develop QB's. Your post here for example, on the surface seems to be implying that if the QB plays well its because of Kyle's system. But if the QB doesn't play well, its because Kyle and his system can't develop QB's.

To me its completely asinine that the architect of this system that consistently churns out quality QB play, somehow can't develop QB's. Really Matt Ryan was the only established QB that Kyle has ever gotten his hands on. He turned Matt Schaub into a pro-bowler, turned RG3 into ROY, layed the early foundation for Cousins to have a successful career, Transformed Ryan into an MVP, Coached up Beathard and Mullens to be able to have long term careers, turned Garoppolo into a top 12 QB, and now made Mr Irrelevant a highly impressive revelation. Really outside of Lance, what QB has Kyle ever got less than expected play from? An older Brian Hoyer in Cleveland and even older Hoyer later in Frisco?

My main point is, even if you want to attribute Kyle's system to elevating a QB's play you can't throw legitimate shade at that same guy for not being able to cultivate QB play.

How all this pertains to Trey Lance, is that no matter how you view Kyle's system relative to how much it reflects on the QB himself, its just not been working out for Trey so far. He's not looking good in a system that is supposed to make it easier for QB's and make them look good. How much of that is on Kyle is up to each individual opinion's, however at some point we need to start to put some of it on Trey. As highlighted by the list above, Kyle has a long track record of being able to get a QB to elevate his play. And that list is not littered with highly experienced veterans either.

Maybe its a just a bad fit overall with Trey and the 9ers. Maybe its the injuries holding his development back. Maybe Kyle isn't pushing the right buttons with Trey. It might be a lot of reasons why it hasn't worked out with Lance yet. Whatever it is we are getting close to the point where Trey might be a bust being one of those potential reasons to consider why its not working.

[CrimsonCrew]

I also find it ironic that some folks are claiming that Kyle can't develop QB's. The funny part about that take, is it completely disregards the 7th round rookie that has surpassed Trey Lance. I don't think some people realize just how impressive it is that Purdy played as well as he did last season. That's both from a coaching standpoint and praise for Brock himself. Going beyond Brock, Kyle got elite efficiency from Garoppolo as well as turning him into a top 12-15 QB despite limited raw talent. Kyle developed Nick Mullens (an undrafted guy) into a decent backup/spot starter. Kyle developed CJ Beathard who is still in the league as a backup. Kyle transformed Matt Ryan into an MVP. Kyle helped RG3 win ROY and turned him into a superstar for a short time, and also played a large role into the early development of Kirk Cousins. The notion that Kyle can't develop QB's is complete rubbish in my opinion.

To build on the Kyle angle a bit further, many people claim that his system is super QB friendly and makes the quarterback look better than they actually are. If we are going to employ that claim, then don't we also have to give Kyle some credit for "developing" quarterback play? Which coincidentally enough, if the system is indeed mostly about the structure and less about the QB specifically, then why is Lance struggling so badly?

Purdy was about as pro-ready of a rookie as you can get so I wouldn't say Kyle "developed" him because Purdy is pretty much playing the same way he did in college just with the 49ers playbook.

The system is super QB friendly and there is nothing wrong with that but it is what it is. The thing with a QB in Kyle's system is it's pretty much boils down to whether you are able to digest the playbook and make the correct decision or not? It's definitely not an easy task for a QB but it's more of a you have it or you don't and less of it being developed.

Kyle will scheme a man open and it's up to the QB to be able to know what man that is and pull the trigger. It's why we built a team around YAC and it's why Jimmy G had success despite everyone knowing where he was going to throw the ball down the middle because Kyle still found ways to get guys open there.

But the systems biggest strength is one of it's biggest weakness because if the defense is defeating the scheme it simply barely functions so far we haven't had a QB under Shanahan that can put the team on it's back and play hero ball to win. The jury is still out on Purdy and maybe he can be that guy but we just haven't seen enough of him to say yes or no on that.

Lance's struggles basically boils down to his mechanics being poor until he made strides this offseason and experience. The reason reps are being stressed with Lance is he needs to see defenses and learn to trust his eyes more and pull the trigger. I never thought he struggled reading the field I thought he struggles in trusting what he sees and letting it rip and that would come with experience.

I think you are way over-selling how pro-ready Purdy was and thus the caliber of prospect he was. I mean we are literally talking about the last pick of the draft, that also plays the hardest position is sports. If Purdy was THAT pro ready, he would have easily been drafted somewhere in the first 3 rounds. This league is perpetually starved for decent QB play, let alone dirt cheap effective QB play. Don't confuse experience/reps with pro-readiness. Its very, very rare that a rookie step in and excel immediately. Let alone being such a low drafted one. If all a guy needed was experience in a pro style offense to have success at the next level, we would see a helluva lot more QB's pan out than we actually do.

I agree with Kyle's system being QB friendly. What I don't agree with is, this narrative that exists that seemingly devalues the QB play in of itself almost entirely just because of the system. Also that Kyle apparently isn't able to develop QB's. Your post here for example, on the surface seems to be implying that if the QB plays well its because of Kyle's system. But if the QB doesn't play well, its because Kyle and his system can't develop QB's.

To me its completely asinine that the architect of this system that consistently churns out quality QB play, somehow can't develop QB's. Really Matt Ryan was the only established QB that Kyle has ever gotten his hands on. He turned Matt Schaub into a pro-bowler, turned RG3 into ROY, layed the early foundation for Cousins to have a successful career, Transformed Ryan into an MVP, Coached up Beathard and Mullens to be able to have long term careers, turned Garoppolo into a top 12 QB, and now made Mr Irrelevant a highly impressive revelation. Really outside of Lance, what QB has Kyle ever got less than expected play from? An older Brian Hoyer in Cleveland and even older Hoyer later in Frisco?

My main point is, even if you want to attribute Kyle's system to elevating a QB's play you can't throw legitimate shade at that same guy for not being able to cultivate QB play.

How all this pertains to Trey Lance, is that no matter how you view Kyle's system relative to how much it reflects on the QB himself, its just not been working out for Trey so far. He's not looking good in a system that is supposed to make it easier for QB's and make them look good. How much of that is on Kyle is up to each individual opinion's, however at some point we need to start to put some of it on Trey. As highlighted by the list above, Kyle has a long track record of being able to get a QB to elevate his play. And that list is not littered with highly experienced veterans either.

Maybe its a just a bad fit overall with Trey and the 9ers. Maybe its the injuries holding his development back. Maybe Kyle isn't pushing the right buttons with Trey. It might be a lot of reasons why it hasn't worked out with Lance yet. Whatever it is we are getting close to the point where Trey might be a bust being one of those potential reasons to consider why its not working.

It's an analytics-driven league in a lot of ways, and the analytics aren't good for a six-foot QB with ordinary (generously) arm strength and mediocre athleticism. If Purdy hits, it would buck a whole lot of strong trends. I'm sure there were plenty of teams who didn't even have him on their boards or scout him very seriously. It's hard to say how much of his success last year was due to the ability and experience he brought to the table, and how much was Kyle's coaching. But certainly he grasped the QB-friendly system very quickly.

[CrimsonCrew]

A couple things I wanted to touch on with Trey. Not much good from last week, but it did look like he maintained his mechanics, by and large, and other than the one awful ball to the flat that might have been a throwaway, he was generally pretty accurate when he did throw.

The other thing is that his hesitation could be completely devastating to his career as an NFL QB. If he can't see open in the NFL, he probably can't play in the NFL. He's not enough of a freak with his legs to make up for that. But it's also entirely possible that he just lacks confidence in what he's seeing, and the light could go on with that pretty quickly. If he can show that he can trust what he's seeing and pull the trigger on it, he's still got a chance.

Again, at the end of the day, barring a Purdy injury, and possibly a Darnold injury to boot, he may never get another chance as the starting QB of this team. But I still think it's way too early to just give up on him - for the league, anyway. In terms of the Niners, we're getting to that point.