2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 3 - Post Free Agency Discussion

[King4Day]

Schedule released: https://www.espn.com/nba/team/schedule/_/name/phx/phoenix-suns

Bridges & CamJo return to Phoenix 12/13 (2nd night of home double header after playing the warriors the night before)

The 2 games I have marked:

2/2 @ Atlanta
3/15 @ Charlotte

I plan on being at both.

[Mulhollanddrive]

wow @ GSW and Lakers straight off the bat, imagine if we go 2-0

[Mulhollanddrive]

Pretty easy schedule till January 9.

Think we're +8 for home games up till that point and only play the 5 best contenders 7 times.

Opening 2 games are tough at GSW and at Lakers but no better time to get them.

Tough stretch away games:
- January 9 (11 of 14 away)
- March 11 (9 of 11 away)

Tough stretch condensed games:
- January 9 (6 games in 9 days)
- January 22 (6 games in 9 days)

Tough stretch opponents:
- February 7 (8 of 23 against top 5 contenders)

[bwgood77]

I think we’re gonna see a lot of Eric Gordon running the offense for us. EG has quick hands like CP3, I think his defense is pretty good. I can definitely see him closing games for us. I just hope he can stay healthy.

The lineup of EG, Book, Beal, KD and Ayron will be deadly. A ton of open looks for sure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, health is key for everyone. The good thing is we now have enough initiators and big time scorers that we can withstand one of KD, Book, Beal and Gordon out. At least in the regular season and maybe early playoff series. Even in regular season with 2 of them out it might not be bad, unless it is KD and Book, but even Beal, Gordon and Ayton with a defender and a guy like Yuta would be pretty decent.

Just need to be healthy for the playoffs.

[darealjuice]

Glad Ayton’s playing well. I’m not going to get too excited about it considering the level of competition though. A bit early to say he’s turned any corners when he’s clearly not matched up against NBA talent. I’d still love to see him start to get to the free throw line too.

What is exciting is that maybe it’ll motivate him to want to play well with for the Suns. I just hope his confidence, leadership and love for the game translates over to the NBA season. We will need it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed, this is a good opportunity for him to build some confidence after a tough offseason. It’s good that he’s able to build some chemistry with EG too. I’m just hesitant to start taking victory laps about him not being “held back” anymore when the gap between top NBA centers and the players he’s matched up against now is massive.

[sashaturiaf]

Watch on YouTube

I tried adding this to the previous post but it wouldn't make the video playable without clicking the link. Weird

The 15 boards is nice but I'm not taking much out of Aytons Bahamas performances.

The sort of role he has on Bahamas isn't translatable to our roster at all, he's doing this iso faceup 1st option stuff when he's going to 4th option here. I'd rather see him set proper screens and play consistently strong on defense.

[Saberestar]

Watch on YouTube

I tried adding this to the previous post but it wouldn't make the video playable without clicking the link. Weird

The 15 boards is nice but I'm not taking much out of Aytons Bahamas performances.

The sort of role he has on Bahamas isn't translatable to our roster at all, he's doing this iso faceup 1st option stuff when he's going to 4th option here. I'd rather see him set proper screens and play consistently strong on defense.

I disagree.

I have seen every minute of his first two games with the Bahamas and he isn't their first option on offense.

They move the ball and spread the floor and they usually give the ball to Hield or Gordon to attack from the perimeter as a primary option.

They mix that with some ball to Ayton in the mid-range area, but that's similar to how he gets touches on the Suns.

He is playing like himself but with some more intensity and activity, thats the biggest difference. The level of competition is much lower, so that's a factor too.

He can play as well as he is playing with the Suns. He is gonna get enough touches on offense because no way KD, Book and Beal play all games and a ton of minutes per game.

His current body's type reminds me of Kevin Garnett, probably 240 lbs at most.

[King4Day]

Watch on YouTube

I tried adding this to the previous post but it wouldn't make the video playable without clicking the link. Weird

The 15 boards is nice but I'm not taking much out of Aytons Bahamas performances.

The sort of role he has on Bahamas isn't translatable to our roster at all, he's doing this iso faceup 1st option stuff when he's going to 4th option here. I'd rather see him set proper screens and play consistently strong on defense.

I think the team will try getting him to be a focal point early in the season. Plus, there's a high chance that DA will be left 1on1 a lot. You can't tell me DA can't drive around Jokic with the move we saw against Cuba. I'm sure the defense would collapse to help but it's not impossible against subpar defense.

[King4Day]

I couldn't find an official tweet with the full schedule so I'm sharing Arm Bands tweet.

Read on Twitter

[sunsbg]

Most important of all is Ayton coming in good mood into the season and Vogel finds him a role so that he feels appreciated. Winning games during the offseason will help with first part. Not sure why people complain about the competition he's facing. It's not like he's not done the same against NBA players in the past.

[enigmatics]

I disagree.

I have seen every minute of his first two games with the Bahamas and he isn't their first option on offense.

They move the ball and spread the floor and they usually give the ball to Hield or Gordon to attack from the perimeter as a primary option.

They mix that with some ball to Ayton in the mid-range area, but that's similar to how he gets touches on the Suns.

He is playing like himself but with some more intensity and activity, thats the biggest difference. The level of competition is much lower, so that's a factor too.

He can play as well as he is playing with the Suns. He is gonna get enough touches on offense because no way KD, Book and Beal play all games and a ton of minutes per game.

His current body's type reminds me of Kevin Garnett, probably 240 lbs at most.

Go re-watch that last game.

In the huddles their coach is constantly drawing plays for Ayton and running the shooters around in motion to open them up. It's as audible as humanly possible and also explains all the shot attempts Ayton is getting (16 vs Argentina & 14 vs Cuba).

They're looking to work inside out - if teams dare double Ayton they kick it out to Hield, Gordon, etc (Hield has 37 shot attempts / Gordon has 22) ESPECIALLY in a matchup with teams who can't simply physically match up to Ayton.

At WORST Ayton is a second option in these games. It's not going to look like that on the Suns.

[enigmatics]

Most important of all is Ayton coming in good mood into the season and Vogel finds him a role so that he feels appreciated. Winning games during the offseason will help with first part. Not sure why people complain about the competition he's facing. It's not like he's not done the same against NBA players in the past.

It's not a complaint. It's REALITY.

He's not facing NBA worthy competition at his position. It's refreshing to see him play with some semblance of urgency for once - but it's a different situation for him on Team Bahamas vs the Suns - as his Suns career has no relevance to what is happening right now on his national team unless of course the Suns are asking to "see" certain things (highly doubtful).

Hopefully he can carry that mood over as you said. The flip side of the coin is coming back to being what appears to be the 4th option might leave a sour taste in his mouth after what he's getting to do on Team Bahamas.

[Saberestar]

I disagree.

I have seen every minute of his first two games with the Bahamas and he isn't their first option on offense.

They move the ball and spread the floor and they usually give the ball to Hield or Gordon to attack from the perimeter as a primary option.

They mix that with some ball to Ayton in the mid-range area, but that's similar to how he gets touches on the Suns.

He is playing like himself but with some more intensity and activity, thats the biggest difference. The level of competition is much lower, so that's a factor too.

He can play as well as he is playing with the Suns. He is gonna get enough touches on offense because no way KD, Book and Beal play all games and a ton of minutes per game.

His current body's type reminds me of Kevin Garnett, probably 240 lbs at most.

Go re-watch that last game.

In the huddles their coach is constantly drawing plays for Ayton and running the shooters around in motion to open them up. It's as audible as humanly possible and also explains all the shot attempts Ayton is getting (16 vs Argentina & 14 vs Cuba).

They're working inside out - if teams dare double Ayton they kick it out to Hield, Gordon, etc. (Hield has 37 shot attempts / Gordon has 22)

At WORST Ayton is a second option in these games.

The Bahamas are using Ayton like the Suns usually use him. They are making him a finisher in the mid-range area and in the paint, they don't use him as a creator/facilitator or in the low post as a scorer.

He has more shots attempts than Gordon but I am pretty sure that his usage (no advance stats) is much lower, Gordon gets to the FTL a lot more and he has many more assists per game. Hield has more shots per game, assists and (presumably) usage. All three are close as their 1A, 1B and 1C options.

Their HC wants to involve Ayton on offense because he knows that he has a tremendous advantage over any interior defender and that's why he makes specific plays for him after timeouts, but at the end of the day his team plays a perimeter oriented offense most of the time shooting a lot of threes per game. And it's working for them.

What I am trying to say is that Ayton can play for the Suns exactly as well as he is playing for the Bahamas (probably with less points per game but with the same efficiency) because the biggest difference is in his current higher activity, intensity and looking confident and all of that has nothing to do with him being the first option on offense because he isn't that for them neither.

[enigmatics]

The Bahamas are using Ayton like the Suns usually use him. They are making him a finisher in the mid-range area and in the paint, they don't use him as a creator/facilitator or in the low post as a scorer.

Not true at all. He's getting the ball way earlier and often in offensive sets than he does with the Suns.

What I am trying to say is that Ayton can play for the Suns exactly as well as he is playing for the Bahamas (probably with less points per game but with the same efficiency) because the biggest difference is in his current higher activity, intensity and looking confident and all of that has nothing to do with him being the first option on offense because he isn't that for them neither.

Ayton/Hield/Gordon vs. two really bad Argentina and Cuba teams is the same thing as Booker/KD/Beal/ Ayton vs. NBA caliber competition. What are we event talking about here?

If you think his intensity/confidence hasn't changed due to a high usage rate and more involvement as a primary focus (not to mention representing his home country) you're ignoring reality. On the Bahamas he's getting what he's always wanted on the Suns. It's plainly evident. Even with all their chucking he's still SECOND in attempts.

[Jdiddy701]

I didn’t see the first game but I thought it was clear they’re trying to play everything through DA. Each huddle they mentioned to feed DA in the post in hopes of a shooter being open. I just don’t think DA establishes himself well in the post, so they pivoted which usually led to EG drawing contact for free throws. He’s definitely their 1 or 2 option each play.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[enigmatics]

LOL I guess Vince Marotta was calling this a possible "ReincarnAyton".

They should definitely use that if he turns things around this year.

[Jdiddy701]

Am I the only one who thinks the ‘DA wants more touches’ talk is not true. I don’t think he’s built that way and can’t see him wanting that. He lacks confidence so why would he want the ball more?

In FIBA basketball, I can see it since he’s taller and stronger than most players but definitely not in the NBA. I can’t see it translating to wins, unless all of a sudden he starts to consistently go to the free throw line which I don’t remember him getting to the line last game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[enigmatics]

Am I the only one who thinks the ‘DA wants more touches’ talk is not true. I don’t think he’s built that way and can’t see him wanting that. He lacks confidence so why would he want the ball more?

In FIBA basketball, I can see it since he’s taller and stronger than most players but definitely not in the NBA. I can’t see it translating to wins, unless all of a sudden he starts to consistently go to the free throw line which I don’t remember him getting to the line last game.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He doesn't get to the free throw line a whole lot because his game is primarily settling for jumpers, which to his credit he obviously excels at. Big men who eat guys up inside get to the free throw line a lot and demoralize teams, but at this point that's not likely ever going to be DA.

Call it involvement, touches, or whatever - it does seem to me he desires more. That's why we see him disappear at times when it's not happening. Remember, this guy was a #1 overall draft pick (first ever for the Suns) and supposed generational type player. I'm sure he still thinks of himself as such, but the team has slowly moved away from him.

[sunsbg]

Am I the only one who thinks the ‘DA wants more touches’ talk is not true. I don’t think he’s built that way and can’t see him wanting that. He lacks confidence so why would he want the ball more?

In FIBA basketball, I can see it since he’s taller and stronger than most players but definitely not in the NBA. I can’t see it translating to wins, unless all of a sudden he starts to consistently go to the free throw line which I don’t remember him getting to the line last game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You are definitely not the only one. I have said many times that Ayton is a team player who has sacrificed his game. He easily could have gone me-first mode and taken more shots in team's expense on a lower efficiency. High efficiency and doing the dirty work didn't net him a max contract in '21 though. He felt underappreciated and the broken relationship with Monty didn't help. A new page for him this season. Vogel seems to recognize he needs to find shots for DA to keep him engaged. 10-12 FGA should be enough.

[sunsfan1o1]

Schedule released: https://www.espn.com/nba/team/schedule/_/name/phx/phoenix-suns

Bridges & CamJo return to Phoenix 12/13 (2nd night of home double header after playing the warriors the night before)

The 2 games I have marked:

2/2 @ Atlanta
3/15 @ Charlotte

I plan on being at both.

A December game. Cam Johnson will probably be injured. That’s his usual break period. And he’s playing all summer. It’s only a matter of time.