Rank the top 15 seasons between Lebron/MJ

[homecourtloss]

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I agree that Durant had a better supporting cast than Lebron. All you said regarding that is true.

However how do we reconcile the fact that Lebron is +18 ON court in the Eastern Conference and then gets pulverized in the Finals when the Cavs' odds going in were those of a slight underdog (+250) that was expected to be competitive and push the series to 6 or 7 games... The Cavs were anything but competitive. They got decimated in 3/5 games with Lebron on the court. And Lebron was terrible on defense and in the clutch.

You keep on saying pulverized when LeBron didn’t get pulverized (+38.3 per 100 on-off, +39 on court in games 3 and 4 over 86 minutes, +22.4, +124.2 ON-off per 100 over 86 minutes and through the first quarter of game five, was actually a plus on court). Additionally, the only reason why they were +18.6 on court was because of LeBron. LeBron was really good on defense in the games before the finals but when he has to play against the best team ever with his best teammates being far below both Kevin Durant or Steph Curry (whoever you think is the better player) and Draymond Green, while having no defensive help himself… It’s just not really much of a fair comparison at all.

Outside of scoring efficiency, I’m not seeing a slam dunk case for 88-90 Jordan vs 2015 physically compromised LeBron let alone one of the best playoff teams ever.

In 2015, after the Cavaliers made those trades, LeBron/Love/Kyrie were 33-3 with a gargantuan SRS.

With Lebron, the 2015 Cavs went 50-19(59-win). Without they went 3-10 going at a 19-win pace. With all three of Love, Kyrie, and Lebron, the Cavs were 42-5(73-win) improving from 4-11 with just kyrie and love 21-win(note that's a 3-year sample, not just 2015).

—LeBron, after the trades was +15.5 on court +18.3 on-off.
—LeBron/Love/Kyrie were +18.0 in 32 games in the regular season, +17.1 vs. Boston
—LeBron/TT/Shumpert were +21.9 (look at all that spacing!)
—LeBron/Shump/Delly were +23.7
—LeBron/Love/TT were +26.

2015 Cleveland was an absolute monster team, headed for a titanic clash with the Golden State Warriors. I’d also like to point out that against a great Golden State Warriors team, the Cavaliers did not trail after any quarter through the first three games other than at the end of overtime in game one which involved a lot of iffy calls to begin with.

There was absolutely no comparison from 1988 to 1990 on the Chicago Bulls of any one of their teams reaching this type of level one with prime Jordan.

Only injuries derailed that team, which included a nice little 4-0 sweep of a 60 win Hawks team with no Love and little Kyrie (2 games played, 49 mp, 13 ppg).

[Djoker]

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I agree that Durant had a better supporting cast than Lebron. All you said regarding that is true.

However how do we reconcile the fact that Lebron is +18 ON court in the Eastern Conference and then gets pulverized in the Finals when the Cavs' odds going in were those of a slight underdog (+250) that was expected to be competitive and push the series to 6 or 7 games... The Cavs were anything but competitive. They got decimated in 3/5 games with Lebron on the court. And Lebron was terrible on defense and in the clutch.

You keep on saying pulverized when LeBron didn’t get pulverized (+38.3 per 100 on-off, +39 on court in games 3 and 4 over 86 minutes, +22.4, +124.2 ON-off per 100 over 86 minutes and through the first quarter of game five, was actually a plus on court). Additionally, the only reason why they were +18.6 on court was because of LeBron. LeBron was really good on defense in the games before the finals but when he has to play against the best team ever with his best teammates being far below both Kevin Durant or Steph Curry (whoever you think is the better player) and Draymond Green, while having no defensive help himself… It’s just not really much of a fair comparison at all.

Outside of scoring efficiency, I’m not seeing a slam dunk case for 88-90 Jordan vs 2015 physically compromised LeBron let alone one of the best playoff teams ever.

In 2015, after the Cavaliers made those trades, LeBron/Love/Kyrie were 33-3 with a gargantuan SRS.

With Lebron, the 2015 Cavs went 50-19(59-win). Without they went 3-10 going at a 19-win pace. With all three of Love, Kyrie, and Lebron, the Cavs were 42-5(73-win) improving from 4-11 with just kyrie and love 21-win(note that's a 3-year sample, not just 2015).

—LeBron, after the trades was +15.5 on court +18.3 on-off.
—LeBron/Love/Kyrie were +18.0 in 32 games in the regular season, +17.1 vs. Boston
—LeBron/TT/Shumpert were +21.9 (look at all that spacing!)
—LeBron/Shump/Delly were +23.7
—LeBron/Love/TT were +26.

2015 Cleveland was an absolute monster team, headed for a titanic clash with the Golden State Warriors. I’d also like to point out that against a great Golden State Warriors team, the Cavaliers did not trail after any quarter through the first three games other than at the end of overtime in game one which involved a lot of iffy calls to begin with.

There was absolutely no comparison from 1988 to 1990 on the Chicago Bulls of any one of their teams reaching this type of level one with prime Jordan.

Only injuries derailed that team, which included a nice little 4-0 sweep of a 60 win Hawks team with no Love and little Kyrie (2 games played, 49 mp, 13 ppg).

I'm repeating myself three times at this point. Lebron's total plus minus for the series didn't look bad because of Game 4. Again it was a blowout win after being down 0-3. In the other four games (all losses), the Cavs were -10.9/48 minutes with Lebron ON. With Lebron ON the court, Cavs got destroyed in Game 1, 2 and 5. And even in Game 3 where they were good with Lebron ON they still had a terrible 4th quarter. Lebron played all 12 minutes of the 4th and was -10 getting totally outplayed by KD.

No one goes game-by-game in that series and says the Cavs didn't get pulverized.

[ShaqAttac]

Will just copy and paste my reasoning from the Top 12 Primes Project:

[spoiler]I see only 2009 Lebron as being on the same tier as Jordan's 3-year peak from 1989-1991. But considering this season is sandwiched between 2008 and 2010 which won't even make the list or even come close, I have less confidence in this version of Lebron. Jordan's 1988, 1992 and 1993 are also near flawless (a smidge below the 1989-1991 stretch) and I don't see any Lebron season at that level not even 2012. For instance comparing Lebron's playoff stats in 2012 playoffs vs. Jordan's weaker immortal six

how 09 bron on the same lvl when hes way better at d?