Trade Talk (Part Thirteen): 2023 Offseason Edition

[Calinks]

Read on Twitter

Not gonna happen but I thought about us trying to get in on this. Would immediately put us in contention IMO.

[minimus]

Read on Twitter

Not gonna happen but I thought about us trying to get in on this. Would immediately put us in contention IMO.

This is just Ants charisma effect. After many years we have a player who can convince other players to play for MIN. Now Edwards has a biggest stage of his career with national team (Ant has not been on this level competition yet: in NCAA was a COVID year and no successful playoff series in NBA) so this effect is on full display.

[Klomp]

Read on Twitter

Not gonna happen but I thought about us trying to get in on this. Would immediately put us in contention IMO.

I bet nationally, people will say it will take Towns AND McDaniels, which to me would probably be a no.

[BlacJacMac]

Read on Twitter

Not gonna happen but I thought about us trying to get in on this. Would immediately put us in contention IMO.

I bet nationally, people will say it will take Towns AND McDaniels, which to me would probably be a no.

No "probably" about it.

[shrink]

Is it weird to say I’d rather have Towns?

Sure, I think Dame is a better player, right now, but the 27 year old Towns is probably the better contract overall. I also wonder if Dame will want this to be Dame’s team? And maybe it should, but I’m happy with this being Ant’s team, and Towns has always shown a willingness to defer whenever he gets talent around him. Towns fit may be wonky with Gobert so far, but his fit with Ant is very good, and he doesn’t take anything away. Finally, Towns seems to want to be here, and Dame only wants to be in Miami.

[frankenwolf]

Is it weird to say I’d rather have Towns?

No it is not.

[thinktank]

Read on Twitter

Not gonna happen but I thought about us trying to get in on this. Would immediately put us in contention IMO.

Bill Simmons is a dumbass.

[TimberKat]

Is it weird to say I’d rather have Towns?

Sure, I think Dame is a better player, right now, but the 27 year old Towns is probably the better contract overall. I also wonder if Dame will want this to be Dame’s team? And maybe it should, but I’m happy with this being Ant’s team, and Towns has always shown a willingness to defer whenever he gets talent around him. Towns fit may be wonky with Gobert, but his fit with Ant is very good, and he doesn’t take anything away. Finally, Towns seems to want to be here, and Dame only wants to be in Miami.

What is weird is getting two technicals on a friendly match. I been on the keep Towns camp for the longest time but stuff with refs got to stop. If he keeps going after the refs, we maybe looking at a Harden for Towns trade.

[Calinks]

Is it weird to say I’d rather have Towns?

Sure, I think Dame is a better player, right now, but the 27 year old Towns is probably the better contract overall. I also wonder if Dame will want this to be Dame’s team? And maybe it should, but I’m happy with this being Ant’s team, and Towns has always shown a willingness to defer whenever he gets talent around him. Towns fit may be wonky with Gobert so far, but his fit with Ant is very good, and he doesn’t take anything away. Finally, Towns seems to want to be here, and Dame only wants to be in Miami.

If I knew Towns took mental leap, AKA got rid of the stray voltage and if he would be reliable in the playoffs, I'd roll with him.

[shrink]

If I knew Towns took mental leap, AKA got rid of the stray voltage and if he would be reliable in the playoffs, I'd roll with him.

We might see that! Aside from one season with Jimmy, Towns has had to be the lead player on every team he’s been on, including the DR. That was a choice that was forced on him by being surrounded by lesser teammates, and I don’t think it’s a role that fits his mentality. In fact, his best season ever was the year that he played with Jimmy, and he was third in FGA’s! My hope is that an ascending Ant will let KAT be more comfortable, and let his talent shine through as he just plays basketball.

[Dewey]

Read on Twitter

Not gonna happen but I thought about us trying to get in on this. Would immediately put us in contention IMO.

I bet nationally, people will say it will take Towns AND McDaniels, which to me would probably be a no.

Sounds like a agent/media move to get Miami attention…

Towns for Dame? Yes
Towns and McDaniels for Dame? No

Dame/Edwards/McD is legit

[wolves_89]

Is it weird to say I’d rather have Towns?

Sure, I think Dame is a better player, right now, but the 27 year old Towns is probably the better contract overall. I also wonder if Dame will want this to be Dame’s team? And maybe it should, but I’m happy with this being Ant’s team, and Towns has always shown a willingness to defer whenever he gets talent around him. Towns fit may be wonky with Gobert so far, but his fit with Ant is very good, and he doesn’t take anything away. Finally, Towns seems to want to be here, and Dame only wants to be in Miami.

I'm not all that excited about Lillard's age 34-36 seasons (2024-25, 2025-26, and 2026-27). I believe that while Lillard might be better next season, over the next 4 years Towns will provide more value on court.

[Calinks]

If I knew Towns took mental leap, AKA got rid of the stray voltage and if he would be reliable in the playoffs, I'd roll with him.

We might see that! Aside from one season with Jimmy, Towns has had to be the lead player on every team he’s been on, including the DR. That was a choice that was forced on him by being surrounded by lesser teammates, and I don’t think it’s a role that fits his mentality. In fact, his best season ever was the year that he played with Jimmy. My hope is that an ascending Ant will let KAT be more comfortable, and just let his talent shine through as he just plays basketball.

I hope. I never question his talent or passion to win. 80 percent of my issues with him are all mental.

[TimberKat]

Is it weird to say I’d rather have Towns?

Sure, I think Dame is a better player, right now, but the 27 year old Towns is probably the better contract overall. I also wonder if Dame will want this to be Dame’s team? And maybe it should, but I’m happy with this being Ant’s team, and Towns has always shown a willingness to defer whenever he gets talent around him. Towns fit may be wonky with Gobert so far, but his fit with Ant is very good, and he doesn’t take anything away. Finally, Towns seems to want to be here, and Dame only wants to be in Miami.

I'm not all that excited about Lillard's age 34-36 seasons (2024-25, 2025-26, and 2026-27). I believe that while Lillard might be better next season, over the next 4 years Towns will provide more value on court.

It's certainly a lot better than Ty Ty Washington and 3#1s for Towns. I actually proposed this one earlier in the year. If it happens, we will be up there with PHX and DEN for winning the conference for the next two years. We still have Naz as backup center. Do you believe Towns will snap out of his mental issues? It's definitely a very interesting proposal.

[wolves_89]

Is it weird to say I’d rather have Towns?

Sure, I think Dame is a better player, right now, but the 27 year old Towns is probably the better contract overall. I also wonder if Dame will want this to be Dame’s team? And maybe it should, but I’m happy with this being Ant’s team, and Towns has always shown a willingness to defer whenever he gets talent around him. Towns fit may be wonky with Gobert so far, but his fit with Ant is very good, and he doesn’t take anything away. Finally, Towns seems to want to be here, and Dame only wants to be in Miami.

I'm not all that excited about Lillard's age 34-36 seasons (2024-25, 2025-26, and 2026-27). I believe that while Lillard might be better next season, over the next 4 years Towns will provide more value on court.

It's certainly a lot better than Ty Ty Washington and 3#1s for Towns. I actually proposed this one earlier in the year. If it happens, we will be up there with PHX and DEN for winning the conference for the next two years. We still have Naz as backup center. Do you believe Towns will snap out of his mental issues? It's definitely a very interesting proposal.

I think concern about Towns "mental issues" is vastly overblown. When healthy KAT has consistently been one of the top 15 players in the NBA and to believe that he has lost that ability at age 27 isn't credible. If Towns stays relatively healthy next year, I am confident he will again be playing at a clear all-star level.

[Domejandro]

In a world where Damian Lillard adds Minnesota to his list, I would probably swap Karl-Anthony Towns for him. Absolutely not without that contingency, but with it, Minnesota pretty much has to make that swap. Lillard is a consensus top ten player who should stay at the level over the next two seasons; I think people are somewhat underappreciating how good he is at basketball. There is a pretty substantial gap between Lillard's impact and Towns' (which is amazing, given how talented KAT is!). Directionally, I am not sure if Portland would be interested (literally every single report suggests that the answer is absolutely not), but between that and the Miami HEAT package, it might be worth considering for them.


Klomp posted this tweet in the Anthony Edwards thread, but Damian Lillard's ability to create buckets for himself is unbelievable. Having him AND Anthony Edwards would make Minnesota unguardable.

Read on Twitter

Full quote because Twitter sucks now:

Spoiler:

When players combine explosive slashing with strong off-the-dribble 3PT shooting, it gives their attack a level of unpredictability that makes them nearly impossible to guard 1v1.

Via
@The_BBall_Index
's database, 4 players landed in the top 15 in both Rim AND 3PT Shot Creation last season:

• Anthony Edwards
• Damian Lillard
• Jalen Green
• Jayson Tatum

These 4 players have the process for creating these opportunities down, but the second part of the equation is actually converting.

Here's a look at the percentiles each of these 4 land in, when it comes to capitalizing:

Rim Shot Making / 3PT Pull Up Shot Making

Edwards: 90th / 85th
Lillard: 96th / 99th
Green: 13th / 85th
Tatum: 93rd / 56th

Just some general thoughts -

Dame has this mastered, the only way to stop him at this point is to hope he's missing, and Ant's getting there.

In order for Green to take that next step, he's got to improve his finishing around the rim; his ability to create those opportunities and get to the FT line, when paired with his perimeter game would make him one of the game's most lethal self-creators.

Tatum's shot making is inconsistent, especially from 3, but he's still *good enough* that he offers strong value from inside-out.

Any additional thoughts/takeaways?

Ideally, there would be a better third broker for Mike Conley than the Los Angeles Clippers (I would prefer getting Nicolas Batum), but here is a reasonable format that I could see.

LAC: Mike Conley Jr.
OUT: Marcus Morris Sr., Amir Coffey, and seconds

MIN: Damian Lillard and Marcus Morris Sr.
OUT: Karl-Anthony Towns, Mike Conley Jr., and Wendell Moore Jr.

POR: Karl-Anthony Towns, Amir Coffee, Wendell Moore Jr., and seconds
OUT: Damian Lillard

Damian Lillard / Nickeil Alexander-Walker / Jordan McLaughlin
Anthony Edwards / Shake Milton /
Jaden McDaniels / Troy Brown Jr. / Josh Minott
Kyle Anderson / Marcus Morris Sr. / Leonard Miller
Rudy Gobert / Naz Reid /

2WP: Luka Garza and Jaylen Clark

With the minimum, sign another big like Javale McGee/Bismack Biyombo/Blake Griffin and then save the fifteenth spot for a minimum at the waiving deadline.



Again, I wouldn't expect it at all, but that is a pretty monstrous squad.

[TimberKat]

I like to keep Conley if all possible. A 3 guard rotation and injury protection of Ant, Dame, Conley would be awesome. Stick with Towns works too.

[Klomp]

Honestly, the potential Lillard trade talk brings me back to when there was rumors of Iverson possibly wanting to come to Minnesota in what would end up as Garnett's last year in Minnesota. Now, circumstances are obviously different but it's interesting to think about what could have been.

[Domejandro]

I like to keep Conley if all possible. A 3 guard rotation and injury protection of Ant, Dame, Conley would be awesome. Stick with Towns works too.

Edit for context: The Luxury-Tax line is at $165,294,000. Minnesota used their Mid-Level Exception, so they cannot surpass the First Apron at $172,346,000 under any circumstances this season.

Packages for Damian Lillard would result in....
Karl-Anthony Towns + Wendell Moore Jr. --> $170,133,576 (enough space to barely sign one veteran minimum)
Karl-Anthony Towns + Kyle Anderson --> $163,335,784 (space for rookie-scale minimum under Luxury-Tax)
Karl-Anthony Towns + Kyle Anderson + Wendell Moore Jr. --> $160,914,064 (space for two veteran minimum under Luxury-Tax)

That context matters to bolster the points below.
________________________________________________________


Karl-Anthony Towns and Wendell Moore Jr. would work, but Minnesota would be sent heavily into the Luxury-Tax. Alternatively, Karl-Anthony Towns and Kyle Anderson would work while keeping Minnesota under the tax, but that would obviously implode Minnesota's forward depth.

Damian Lillard / Mike Conley / Jordan McLaughlin
Anthony Edwards / Nickeil Alexander-Walker / Shake Milton /
Troy Brown Jr. / Josh Minott
Jaden McDaniels / Leonard Miller
Rudy Gobert / Naz Reid /

Terrible roster balance and Mike Conley is pretty clearly not needed. There is really no solid reason to keep Mike Conley in a scenario where the team is trading for Damian Lillard. If ownership wanted to dip into the Luxury-Tax, that would be awesome, but that is not a fair ask and the roster balance would still be wonky.

Damian Lillard / Mike Conley / Jordan McLaughlin
Anthony Edwards / Nickeil Alexander-Walker / Shake Milton /
Jaden McDaniels / Troy Brown Jr. / Wendell Moore Jr. (maybe?)
Kyle Anderson / Josh Minott / Leonard Miller
Rudy Gobert / Naz Reid /


If Minnesota traded for Damian Lillard, I think it is relatively clear that the best pathway forward for Minnesota would be exchanging Mike Conley for a forward. With Anthony Edwards and Damian Lillard eating up 72 out of 96 guard minutes on the majority of nights, Mike Conley would be a poor use of Minnesota's salary cap (particularly in the context of dipping into the Luxury-Tax). Does that mean Marcus Morris Sr.? Maybe not, but the general structure is what I would expect.

[minimus]

Damian Lillard / Mike Conley / Jordan McLaughlin
Anthony Edwards / Nickeil Alexander-Walker / Shake Milton /
Jaden McDaniels / Troy Brown Jr. / Wendell Moore Jr. (maybe?)
Kyle Anderson / Josh Minott / Leonard Miller
Rudy Gobert / Naz Reid /


If Minnesota traded for Damian Lillard, I think it is relatively clear that the best pathway forward for Minnesota would be exchanging Mike Conley for a forward. With Anthony Edwards and Damian Lillard eating up 72 out of 96 guard minutes on the majority of nights, Mike Conley would be a poor use of Minnesota's salary cap (particularly in the context of dipping into the Luxury-Tax). Does that mean Marcus Morris Sr.? Maybe not, but the general structure is what I would expect.

Trade Towns, Moore and McLaughlin. Trade Conley for DFS and Royce O'Neal. Sign Garuba and TyTy Washington for min and two-ways deals.

Damian Lillard / Shake Milton / Washington
Anthony Edwards / NAW / Shake Milton /
Jaden McDaniels / Troy Brown Jr. / O'Neal
Kyle Anderson / DFS / Josh Minott + Leonard Miller
Rudy Gobert / Naz Reid / Garuba + Garza