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The Trey Lance thread

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Re: The Trey Lance thread 

Post#561 » by thesack12 » Thu Aug 24, 2023 5:27 pm

wco81 wrote:
Harry Palmer wrote:
Right, but that goes to my point. They took a guy whose primary weakness EVERYONE agreed was lack of reps, gave him practically none his rookie season…ie compounded the agreed upon problem, and then were somehow caught off guard that he wasn’t lighting it up from day One of his anointed year? That to me is not a Trey problem, it’s an organizational complete lack of a sensible developmental program for him problem.



Yeah they've botched so many FRPs, including top 5 FRPs.

Plus we hear rumors, how Shanahan wanted Mac Jones, who's a low ceiling guy and how Lynch and others had to talk him out of it.

They lucked out with Purdy and Garappolo was kind of a giveaway by the Pats.

Otherwise, the record would be ugly.


Yup, they're just lucky. Lets dwell on the misses and not give any credit for the hits.

Meanwhile this regime has the team firmly in the super bowl equation and easily among the most talented rosters in the league.
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Re: The Trey Lance thread 

Post#562 » by CrimsonCrew » Thu Aug 24, 2023 5:31 pm

Big J wrote:
thesack12 wrote:This whole Trey Lance conundrum is not about Sam Darnold at all, its entirely about Brock Purdy.

If Brock Purdy is still carrying big time concerns about his elbow, or is the version of Brock Purdy that 99.999 % of the people on this planet expected him to be when he was drafted as Mr Irrelevant, then Trey Lance is still easily the starter going into this season. Sure they may have still brought in a guy like Darnold to push Trey in camp (unlike last season when laughably Nate Sudfeld was the only thing "pushing" Lance,) but in that scenario Lance would of course be the best long term prospect thus worthwhile of prioritizing his development.

Trey Lance has not been mistreated by the organization. He was literally handed the keys to the franchise going into last season, without actually "earning" it. To no fault of his own the ankle injury in week 2, derailed his grip on being the franchise guy. That injury not only changed the course of his career, but also the course of the franchise's future.

Brock Purdy changed the Trey Lance equation entirely. Not only is Brock Pury currently the best QB on the roster, but in the organization's eyes he's apparently also the best long term prospect at QB as well. You can disagree with the latter part of that statement, but its clearly how the organization sees it. Which that being the case, its extraordinarily difficult to try and develop 2 very young QB's simultaneously.

As for QB2, the backup QB is more about being able to step in at a moment's notice and provide a stable relatively high floor level of play. We can all debate and discuss how we feel about Sam Darnold overall, but right now he's showing to be a better player than Lance is. Thus looking like a better option to fill that QB2 role.

We are all incredibly disappointed with how the trade up, and its results have parlayed out so far. We are all quite bummed that we haven't been able to see much of Trey Lance on the field. That said, we as fans don't get to see what happens on the practice field, and behind closed doors. There does exist a possibility that Trey is not advancing his development via the things we don't see (film room, feel for the playbook, connectability/trust with his teammates, etc.) Maybe some of these intangibles have played a part as well. In other words, until I see/hear differently I'm not going to pin Lance's lack of development entirely on the organization's shoulders. Its quite common that some guys just don't pan out.

I will also again mention, that despite how brutal that trade up looks now, I will give the organization a lot of credit for not falling into the sunken cost trap with Trey. It takes some stones to not give into the pressure to and play Lance simply because of his draft positioning. It will take even bigger stones, if they wind up moving on from him sometime in the next couple weeks. On a side note, its impressive that not only has the team weathered the blow of making that colossal investment with basically no return, but arguably they are actually better off moving forward at the most important position in sports. Granted not having those high end assets that were given away in the Lance trade will contunue to have ripple effects on the overall roster and salary cap for the next few years. Still, almost every other time a team makes a huge investment into a young QB like that and it fails, it usually has widespread negative effects and cripples the franchise for the next several years.


I also find it ironic that a lot of people are trashing the organization for supposedly not being able to develop Lance, yet not be willing to give them any credit for unearthing Brock Purdy and catapulting him on his meteoric rise. Criticism for the trade up, aftermath with Lance is certainly valid, but it shouldn't be mutually exclusive to not prasing the organization for the Brock Purdy equation.

In conclusion, I still want Lance on this team and haven't lost all hope with him. But that is looking quite iffy currently. We shall see


Except we’re hearing a lot of what is going on on the practice field during training camp this year. Grant Cohn has been reporting that Purdy has thrown a ton of picks and and basically stunk it up without any consequences. How exactly is that fair at all to Lance?


Grant Cohn is the furthest thing from objective on this matter. He is all-in on Trey, and kind of has it out for Purdy. Purdy will complete 80% of his passes, and Grant will nit-pick, while Lance completes 50% and Grant makes excuses. Purdy has had an issue with INTs in practice, but unless and until it spills over into the regular season, he's not losing his job because of that.

Lance was never in competition with a healthy Brock Purdy for the starting job. Period, end of story. Because Purdy did what he did in live, extremely significant NFL games, Lance was never going to be able to leapfrog a healthy Purdy. And barring truly exceptional play, he shouldn't have had that opportunity.

Purdy got an opportunity and ran with it, producing one of the great rookie QB years in NFL history. Counting the Miami game, which he played most of, in the regular season he completed 68% of his passes for 1308 yards, 13 TDs, and 3 INTs. He went 6-0. Over a 16-game season (to better compare with historical rookie seasons), that extrapolates to 3,488 yards, 35 TDs, and 8 INTs. Add in the playoffs (excluding the Eagles game), and he went for 1,854 yards, 16 TDs, and 3 INTs and a 7-0 record. Oh, and he had two rushing TDs, one in the playoffs. That would be good for 3708 yards, 32 passing TDs, 6 INTs, and 4 rushing TDs over 16 games. That would be a damn fine year for a savvy vet. We've never seen a rookie do anything particularly close to that.

PFF ranked the best rookie QBs in 2021 (https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-ranking-best-rookie-quarterback-seasons-of-the-past-15-years-can-mac-jones-russell-wilson), and Russell Wilson was rated the best rookie ever with 3,118 yards, 26 TDs, 10 INTs, and 4 rushing TDs. Purdy's PFF grade was surprisingly low given those numbers (76.6, which would be 8th on their list), but at some point that seems awfully nit-picky, too. You simply cannot argue with the results he produced. And obviously there were some pretty unique circumstances for Purdy, particularly the strength of the team around him, but until he was injured, he rose to every challenge. He earned the starting job.

Lance needed to be perfect, and he was far from it. I'm all for apportioning blame for this debacle to the front office. They blew the Lance situation monumentally, at every pass from the draft through to yesterday, in a way that I will likely detail in the near future. But Lance was not able to force their hand, either. Hell, fair or not, Lance couldn't clearly beat out Sam Darnold. So at the end of the day, he's got some ownership of this one, too. The vast majority of NFL players don't get multiple years as a starter to prove they belong. If they don't maximize the opportunities they have, they don't last long.
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Re: The Trey Lance thread 

Post#563 » by CrimsonCrew » Thu Aug 24, 2023 5:33 pm

thesack12 wrote:The portion of practices that is open to the media, is hardly a window into being able to see the full picture. Nor is it something to put a whole lot of stock into. Having said that, I realize thats mostly all of what we as fans have at our disposal to consume and evaluate. But its a very small piece of the puzzle that is used in the decision making process by the team.

Besides its not like Trey has been lighting up practice/camp/preseason anyways.

Jimmy threw a lot of practice/camp picks and was largely fine when it actually mattered. In regards to being "fair" what have you seen from Trey while he was on the field (whether it be in limited regular season appearances or the first 2 preseason games this year) that warrants it being "fair" to Brock if Trey was given the starting job?

Most of these "fairness" type arguments sure seem to disregard the other side of the equation.


This is pretty minor, but the media is permitted to watch the entire training camp practices, they just can't record during team. Granted they don't know the play calls, don't know the reads, don't know what the team is working on, etc. They have seen pretty much every Lance and Darnold pass over the past several weeks.
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Re: The Trey Lance thread 

Post#564 » by CrimsonCrew » Thu Aug 24, 2023 5:39 pm

Big J wrote:It just doesn’t make any sense that people say that when Brock throws picks in practice doesn’t matter, but every little error that Trey makes in practice is scrutinized to the nth degree. Brock is freaking tiny and doesn’t have any of the measurables that the elite guys in this league possess. He caps out as the second coming of Jimmy G. Whereas Trey could easily become a Mahomes or Watson level talent in a few years with his physical attributes.


I touched on this in my post right above, but of course it makes sense. Brock Purdy has proven himself IN LIVE NFL STARTS!!! As long as he looks more or less like the same guy, he's the QB. That makes sense.

Now look, if Trey had come out and completed 70+% of his passes in camp, had a 4-to-1 or better TD-to-INT rate, and dominated the preseason games from start to finish, then maybe you at least have a conversation. Lance didn't do that. And yes, there are tons of reasons for that. Everything I have ever heard about Lance is that he's an amazing person. And I feel really bad for him, in much the same way I felt really bad for Alex Smith. But at the end of the day, Trey can control what he puts on the field, and he didn't put anywhere near enough out there to challenge a guy with Brock's resume, limited as that is to date.
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Re: The Trey Lance thread 

Post#565 » by thesack12 » Thu Aug 24, 2023 5:41 pm

CrimsonCrew wrote:
Big J wrote:
thesack12 wrote:This whole Trey Lance conundrum is not about Sam Darnold at all, its entirely about Brock Purdy.

If Brock Purdy is still carrying big time concerns about his elbow, or is the version of Brock Purdy that 99.999 % of the people on this planet expected him to be when he was drafted as Mr Irrelevant, then Trey Lance is still easily the starter going into this season. Sure they may have still brought in a guy like Darnold to push Trey in camp (unlike last season when laughably Nate Sudfeld was the only thing "pushing" Lance,) but in that scenario Lance would of course be the best long term prospect thus worthwhile of prioritizing his development.

Trey Lance has not been mistreated by the organization. He was literally handed the keys to the franchise going into last season, without actually "earning" it. To no fault of his own the ankle injury in week 2, derailed his grip on being the franchise guy. That injury not only changed the course of his career, but also the course of the franchise's future.

Brock Purdy changed the Trey Lance equation entirely. Not only is Brock Pury currently the best QB on the roster, but in the organization's eyes he's apparently also the best long term prospect at QB as well. You can disagree with the latter part of that statement, but its clearly how the organization sees it. Which that being the case, its extraordinarily difficult to try and develop 2 very young QB's simultaneously.

As for QB2, the backup QB is more about being able to step in at a moment's notice and provide a stable relatively high floor level of play. We can all debate and discuss how we feel about Sam Darnold overall, but right now he's showing to be a better player than Lance is. Thus looking like a better option to fill that QB2 role.

We are all incredibly disappointed with how the trade up, and its results have parlayed out so far. We are all quite bummed that we haven't been able to see much of Trey Lance on the field. That said, we as fans don't get to see what happens on the practice field, and behind closed doors. There does exist a possibility that Trey is not advancing his development via the things we don't see (film room, feel for the playbook, connectability/trust with his teammates, etc.) Maybe some of these intangibles have played a part as well. In other words, until I see/hear differently I'm not going to pin Lance's lack of development entirely on the organization's shoulders. Its quite common that some guys just don't pan out.

I will also again mention, that despite how brutal that trade up looks now, I will give the organization a lot of credit for not falling into the sunken cost trap with Trey. It takes some stones to not give into the pressure to and play Lance simply because of his draft positioning. It will take even bigger stones, if they wind up moving on from him sometime in the next couple weeks. On a side note, its impressive that not only has the team weathered the blow of making that colossal investment with basically no return, but arguably they are actually better off moving forward at the most important position in sports. Granted not having those high end assets that were given away in the Lance trade will contunue to have ripple effects on the overall roster and salary cap for the next few years. Still, almost every other time a team makes a huge investment into a young QB like that and it fails, it usually has widespread negative effects and cripples the franchise for the next several years.


I also find it ironic that a lot of people are trashing the organization for supposedly not being able to develop Lance, yet not be willing to give them any credit for unearthing Brock Purdy and catapulting him on his meteoric rise. Criticism for the trade up, aftermath with Lance is certainly valid, but it shouldn't be mutually exclusive to not prasing the organization for the Brock Purdy equation.

In conclusion, I still want Lance on this team and haven't lost all hope with him. But that is looking quite iffy currently. We shall see


Except we’re hearing a lot of what is going on on the practice field during training camp this year. Grant Cohn has been reporting that Purdy has thrown a ton of picks and and basically stunk it up without any consequences. How exactly is that fair at all to Lance?


Grant Cohn is the furthest thing from objective on this matter. He is all-in on Trey, and kind of has it out for Purdy. Purdy will complete 80% of his passes, and Grant will nit-pick, while Lance completes 50% and Grant makes excuses. Purdy has had an issue with INTs in practice, but unless and until it spills over into the regular season, he's not losing his job because of that.

Lance was never in competition with a healthy Brock Purdy for the starting job. Period, end of story. Because Purdy did what he did in live, extremely significant NFL games, Lance was never going to be able to leapfrog a healthy Purdy. And barring truly exceptional play, he shouldn't have had that opportunity.

Purdy got an opportunity and ran with it, producing one of the great rookie QB years in NFL history. Counting the Miami game, which he played most of, in the regular season he completed 68% of his passes for 1308 yards, 13 TDs, and 3 INTs. He went 6-0. Over a 16-game season (to better compare with historical rookie seasons), that extrapolates to 3,488 yards, 35 TDs, and 8 INTs. Add in the playoffs (excluding the Eagles game), and he went for 1,854 yards, 16 TDs, and 3 INTs and a 7-0 record. Oh, and he had two rushing TDs, one in the playoffs. That would be good for 3708 yards, 32 passing TDs, 6 INTs, and 4 rushing TDs over 16 games. That would be a damn fine year for a savvy vet. We've never seen a rookie do anything particularly close to that.

PFF ranked the best rookie QBs in 2021 (https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-ranking-best-rookie-quarterback-seasons-of-the-past-15-years-can-mac-jones-russell-wilson), and Russell Wilson was rated the best rookie ever with 3,118 yards, 26 TDs, 10 INTs, and 4 rushing TDs. Purdy's PFF grade was surprisingly low given those numbers (76.6, which would be 8th on their list), but at some point that seems awfully nit-picky, too. You simply cannot argue with the results he produced. And obviously there were some pretty unique circumstances for Purdy, particularly the strength of the team around him, but until he was injured, he rose to every challenge. He earned the starting job.

Lance needed to be perfect, and he was far from it. I'm all for apportioning blame for this debacle to the front office. They blew the Lance situation monumentally, at every pass from the draft through to yesterday, in a way that I will likely detail in the near future. But Lance was not able to force their hand, either. Hell, fair or not, Lance couldn't clearly beat out Sam Darnold. So at the end of the day, he's got some ownership of this one, too. The vast majority of NFL players don't get multiple years as a starter to prove they belong. If they don't maximize the opportunities they have, they don't last long.


Dude, you should know that factual data and sensible logic shouldn't be used here. Speaking out of emotion and false narratives of alleged unfairness to Lance are whats important here.
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Re: The Trey Lance thread 

Post#566 » by Samurai » Thu Aug 24, 2023 6:30 pm

Big J wrote:
Pattersonca65 wrote:
Big J wrote:Doesn't make sense that Purdy is throwing pick after pick and not getting demoted yet Lance doesn't get a real shot at being starter despite how much more physical talent he has. Brock will be lucky to be as good as Jimmy G.

Picks in practice don't mean much. There is alot more to playing qb than physical talent. Lance had his own set of issues


Lance played 5 quarters. That’s not even a big enough sample size to know what his issues are.

Agree that picks in practice don't mean much. A number of players felt that Purdy made significant advances last season when he was playing the scout team QB in practices by giving the defenders a chance to make plays. They can't do that if the QB is playing scared and overly conservative. Plus by risking picks in practice it gave Purdy a better sense of what throws he can and can't make so that he could make smarter decisions when it counted.

The 5 quarters only refers to games. Shanahan said before that he views how a player does in practice to be just as important, or even more important, than pre-season games. Since practices are so important to Shanahan's process, I don't think the "5 quarters" thing accurately reflects how much or how well he did in the all-important practices.
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Re: The Trey Lance thread 

Post#567 » by Big J » Thu Aug 24, 2023 6:37 pm

Samurai wrote:
Big J wrote:
Pattersonca65 wrote:Picks in practice don't mean much. There is alot more to playing qb than physical talent. Lance had his own set of issues


Lance played 5 quarters. That’s not even a big enough sample size to know what his issues are.

Agree that picks in practice don't mean much. A number of players felt that Purdy made significant advances last season when he was playing the scout team QB in practices by giving the defenders a chance to make plays. They can't do that if the QB is playing scared and overly conservative. Plus by risking picks in practice it gave Purdy a better sense of what throws he can and can't make so that he could make smarter decisions when it counted.

The 5 quarters only refers to games. Shanahan said before that he views how a player does in practice to be just as important, or even more important, than pre-season games. Since practices are so important to Shanahan's process, I don't think the "5 quarters" thing accurately reflects how much or how well he did in the all-important practices.


Dude you just contradicted yourself. On the one hand you say that Purdy's interceptions in practice don't matter because he's trying **** out, but on the other hand you say that practice is sooo important to Shanahan. So which one is it?
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Re: The Trey Lance thread 

Post#568 » by Big J » Thu Aug 24, 2023 6:40 pm

CrimsonCrew wrote:
Big J wrote:It just doesn’t make any sense that people say that when Brock throws picks in practice doesn’t matter, but every little error that Trey makes in practice is scrutinized to the nth degree. Brock is freaking tiny and doesn’t have any of the measurables that the elite guys in this league possess. He caps out as the second coming of Jimmy G. Whereas Trey could easily become a Mahomes or Watson level talent in a few years with his physical attributes.


I touched on this in my post right above, but of course it makes sense. Brock Purdy has proven himself IN LIVE NFL STARTS!!! As long as he looks more or less like the same guy, he's the QB. That makes sense.

Now look, if Trey had come out and completed 70+% of his passes in camp, had a 4-to-1 or better TD-to-INT rate, and dominated the preseason games from start to finish, then maybe you at least have a conversation. Lance didn't do that. And yes, there are tons of reasons for that. Everything I have ever heard about Lance is that he's an amazing person. And I feel really bad for him, in much the same way I felt really bad for Alex Smith. But at the end of the day, Trey can control what he puts on the field, and he didn't put anywhere near enough out there to challenge a guy with Brock's resume, limited as that is to date.


Purdy only proved that he could dump the ball off to Deebo, CMac, Kittle & Ayuk. Any game manager QB could look good throwing to those guys, hell Jimmy G was 1 play from winning a Super Bowl doing it, and that was with out McCaffrey. Someone like Lance could easily do that and also have the threat with his legs. It's only going to get harder and harder when the team is up against guys who can do both things and we're stuck with tiny ass unathletic Mr. Irrelevant Purdy.
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Re: The Trey Lance thread 

Post#569 » by Samurai » Thu Aug 24, 2023 7:05 pm

Big J wrote:
Samurai wrote:
Big J wrote:
Lance played 5 quarters. That’s not even a big enough sample size to know what his issues are.

Agree that picks in practice don't mean much. A number of players felt that Purdy made significant advances last season when he was playing the scout team QB in practices by giving the defenders a chance to make plays. They can't do that if the QB is playing scared and overly conservative. Plus by risking picks in practice it gave Purdy a better sense of what throws he can and can't make so that he could make smarter decisions when it counted.

The 5 quarters only refers to games. Shanahan said before that he views how a player does in practice to be just as important, or even more important, than pre-season games. Since practices are so important to Shanahan's process, I don't think the "5 quarters" thing accurately reflects how much or how well he did in the all-important practices.


Dude you just contradicted yourself. On the one hand you say that Purdy's interceptions in practice don't matter because he's trying **** out, but on the other hand you say that practice is sooo important to Shanahan. So which one is it?

I don't see the contradiction. I don't think picks in practice matter if you are taking more risks and trying to make tough throws so that you know what you can and can't do with your arm. Shanahan has said that how a player does in practice matters as much or more than how they do in pre-season games. Obviously there are key things he is looking for - are they seeing what they need to see, are they making the right reads (since he knows what play they should be executing), are they leading the receivers properly or setting them up to get killed, are they throwing to the right spots (regardless of whether the receiver or defender makes the catch), how is their footwork and throwing mechanics, etc. So yes, he is clearly looking at FAR more of what they do in practice than just picks due to aggressiveness. And yes, last season it was Jimmie Ward among others who said that EVERYONE benefits from practice, not just QB's. By having Purdy get aggressive in practice and leading to more practice picks, he felt that the defense greatly benefited from that because they had a chance to make plays on the ball that they couldn't otherwise if the QB was just playing a game manager in practice. He felt that the defense improved last season by having Purdy not be afraid to throw picks in practice and play much more efficiently in real games.

Not really sure why you are having trouble comprehending that but if you are still confused try rephrasing the question.
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Re: The Trey Lance thread 

Post#570 » by CrimsonCrew » Thu Aug 24, 2023 7:27 pm

I've been giving this a lot of thought, and have tried to be as equitable to all sides as I can be. I think the most likely scenario remains that Lance is still on the team for this season at least. And maybe he makes his way onto the field at some point, or at least challenges Darnold for the #2 job (it's unclear how much of a chance he'll have to do that). Personally, I want to see Trey playing as much as humanly possible.

Now, in terms of where things went wrong, I think arguably the biggest factor, and one that gets some press but not nearly as much as it should, was Lance's finger injury his rookie year. It derailed what was shaping up to be a possible battle between he and Garoppolo for the starting job. Reports coming out this season indicate that the injury had pretty profound impacts on Lance's already shaky mechanics, and affected him as he tried to assume the starter's role in his second year.

Due to the finger injury, Lance was frankly bad as a passer during last offseason. Because of that, when he got into the regular season, Shanahan didn't trust him as a thrower. So he did what probably seemed entirely logical as a coach: he focused on what Lance could still do effectively, and that was run the ball. And, of course, that directly or indirectly led to Lance's injury and missing an entire year during which he was supposed to be developing. And no one is to blame for that one. Lance hit his finger on a helmet, as QBs have done as long as football has existed, and it completely threw off his career arc. It was a fluke, an awful break (literally and figuratively), but it's the sort of thing that happens in this game. However, acknowledging the finger and setting it aside, we still have blown opportunities all over the place.

As far as the front office, I have disagreed with so many of their decisions surrounding Lance. First and foremost, they concluded they needed an elite QB to win in this league. Hurray!!! Absolutely the right decision. They also decided they wanted a guy on a rookie deal so they could surround him with talent. Again, that's great process. BUT, the benefit of the rookie contract is that it allows you to maintain talent and depth around that guy. If you trade three first-rounders and a third for the guy, you are severely inhibiting your ability to surround him with talent. Perhaps more importantly, you are likely depleting your own pool of stars so that, just as that guy starts making the big bucks, you're missing out of the cheap stars who could help you flesh out the roster.

I also hated that they traded up - and gave up so much to do so - months before the draft. When we learned years later that they did so WITHOUT A CLEAR TARGET, I was simply blown away. How do you make that move without having done like 90% of your homework and feeling to the core of your being that a difference-maker is there? It's inexcusable. I think there's also a very strong argument they could have moved up to 6, for instance, held onto one of the first-round picks, and still gotten Lance. Hell, we'll never know, but they might have been able to get Lance at 12.

Once they had the pick, they started to scout the guys in earnest. And I will never understand the thought process that led them to Lance. There was a lot to like about Lance in college. Natural leader. Big arm. Big, athletic, strong. He led a dominant program. But there were so many concerns, too. Tiny sample size, with just one full season on a run-heavy team. 318 pass attempts. Low level of competition. In Shanahan's KNBR interview yesterday, he talked about how well Lance had done running up the middle in college. I wanted to scream at the radio, "That was against tiny, FCS defenders!!! How many of those guys are even in the league at present?!?!"

Because of the lower level of competition Lance was facing, and the relative strength of NDSU, he may as well have been playing on Alabama for all the help he got from his supporting cast. He routinely had guys wide open. He didn't have to make tight window throws. He didn't have to see the field at anything close to an NFL level. Hell, he never even had to put together a game-winning drive. What should have been clear to the FO was that he struggled with accuracy. Despite the big arm, he was not very good throwing downfield. And he was arguably worse throwing in the short area, where his passes would just be bizarrely off at times. I watched a lot of his film and came away thinking he was a second-round talent.

Despite athletic similarities, Fields was clearly superior in every physical area - he's an inch shorter, but his arms are an inch longer. More accurate thrower, more explosive runner. And he had the experience against top-notch opponents that Lance was missing. I can't say what happened in the interview room, on the white board, etc., but just from scouting their games, Fields should have been well ahead of Lance. And I even had Jones ahead of him, given Lance's inaccuracy, though I was glad they took a shot on the upside of Lance given what they had given up.

Once Lance was on the team, I don't have a huge problem with them starting Garoppolo over him. Lance wasn't ready, and the finger injury compounded things. Garoppolo was the obvious choice at that point, and it paid off with a legit playoff run. But going into Lance's second year, watching him struggle with the finger injury, they handed him the starting job. Again, I don't have a fundamental problem with the plan to let Jimmy walk as he was way too expensive before the restructure to keep. But if that's the mentality, and you have concerns with Lance's throwing, why in the world did you plan to back him up with Nate Sudfeld? And sure, they added Purdy too, and to some points above, you do have to give them some credit for developing Purdy, but don't kid yourself that he was anything but a shock to them as much as the rest of the league. You don't pick someone dead last in the draft if you think they've got Purdy's 2022 performance in them.

So Lance as the shaky starter, backed up by Sudfeld was the plan going into the 2022 offseason. What a joke. Thank God it didn't shake out that way. Again, I think Kyle does bear some blame for the leg injury, but knowing what we now know about Lance's finger and how it affected its passing, it's hard for me to be all that critical.

Which brings us to this offseason. I have questioned the decision to bring Darnold into this team. He has tantalizing arm talent and athleticism (not elite there, but pretty darn good), but he just seems like one of those guys who doesn't have it. And those guys rarely change their stripes in my experience. They can to a degree. Alex Smith may be the best example I can think of, but he was never better than a solid QB (granted that's pretty great for a #2 guy). But Darnold has shown over and over that he is slow to process. He can't handle a pass rush.

We hear about Darnold's resurgent season in Carolina, but in his last NFL action, he went 5 of 15 for 43 yards (!!!!!) with two interceptions and two fumbles (neither lost) in a 10-7 win against a 7-10 team. The week before that, sure, he threw for 341 yards and three TDs, but he also threw an INT and fumbled three times (two lost) in losing to what was then a 7-8 team. Those were starts 54 and 55 in his career, and we think all this guy needs is a change of scenery? His QBR (not perfect, but better than passer rating IMO) was below 51 in four of six starts last year. He only won a single game in which he threw for more than 200 yards, and was 3-0 in games in which he threw for under 164 yards. We overpaid for mediocrity, and that's being generous in my view.

And then, despite Darnold's extensive experience, we had him split reps with our young and inexperienced QB who DESPERATELY needed as many as he could possibly get. Practice is an area where we should expect Darnold to do well relative to his career to date. He doesn't have to worry about getting hit. He's not going to fumble, which has been a huge issue for him. He can throw to his first read without being penalized as much because maybe the rookie receiver didn't run the right route or he's still familiarizing himself with the guys. And even then, reports - granted how much can we truly rely on those? - are that he and Lance are performing in a fairly similar way.

And look, Darnold flat out played better in the preseason games. Lance was AWFUL in the first one. But that is perhaps to be expected. He was reluctant to pull the trigger, wasn't trusting his eyes. And if that was it for him, then I get it. But it's his first live action in ages, he just hasn't played much, and he's terrified of making a mistake, which, ironically, leads to more mistakes. A rational person would at least give him two more preseason games to see how he responds. Instead, Shanahan has effectively come out and said he made up his mind after that game. And that's absurd. Because Lance did in fact bounce back in his second preseason game - admittedly after some significant early struggles. Meanwhile, Darnold looked pretty good. He threw the ball well. He had some tough breaks with INTs that weren't his fault killing drives. But he continued to show flashes of that inconsistent guy. Took a couple ugly sacks. Struggled to move the team down the field despite ample opportunities.

So now, as the head coach, Shanahan has basically decided to ignore Sam Darnold's first five seasons because he threw several nice balls in a preseason game, and not give Lance any chance to settle in and show some development - development which Darnold has basically never shown. And now he's going to give Darnold practice snaps ahead of Lance that Lance so desperately needs. It just...I have no words. Virtually nothing about it makes any sense whatsoever.

Having said all of that, Lance is not blameless in this, either. It's not his fault he was taken third overall, and that we sold the farm to get him. It's not his fault that he got hurt, although he did a weird half-slide on the play in which he was injured last year that appeared to contribute to the injury. But as said here and elsewhere, you can't expect unlimited chances in the NFL. Even when you're the third pick. He got a shot to compete this year, maybe not for the starting job, but certainly for the second spot. He was healthy. He had improved his mechanics. He needed to seize his opportunity, and he couldn't beat out Sam frickin' Darnold. I'm definitely not giving up on Trey Lance ever becoming a good NFL QB. But if you can't beat out Sam Darnold in year three, regardless of any other circumstances, it's a really bad look. Lance should have made this an easy decision for the FO. Instead, he did what he's always done with the Niners. Came out ice cold. Warmed up as things went along, but never truly humming the way you'd like to see. Ironically, the very last action we saw him in was probably the best he's ever played, and I personally would love to see more of him this week before a decision is made. But again, if Lance hasn't made that decision for the coach by now, he's got to own a solid chunk of that responsibility.

Overall, it's just a really sad and frustrating situation. The FO still has time to make us forget - or at least forgive - this debacle. But they need to seal the deal. And they've put a ton of pressure on themselves and Purdy to do it. I will say one thing for this FO: they have balls. Keeping Lance at #2 is the easier decision. It won't get second-guessed, even if he comes in and struggles. They are the antithesis of sunk cost around here. And overall that's probably a good thing. Let's just hope it's not another DJ Reed situation, but magnified a hundred fold.
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Re: The Trey Lance thread 

Post#571 » by CrimsonCrew » Thu Aug 24, 2023 7:30 pm

Big J wrote:
Samurai wrote:
Big J wrote:
Lance played 5 quarters. That’s not even a big enough sample size to know what his issues are.

Agree that picks in practice don't mean much. A number of players felt that Purdy made significant advances last season when he was playing the scout team QB in practices by giving the defenders a chance to make plays. They can't do that if the QB is playing scared and overly conservative. Plus by risking picks in practice it gave Purdy a better sense of what throws he can and can't make so that he could make smarter decisions when it counted.

The 5 quarters only refers to games. Shanahan said before that he views how a player does in practice to be just as important, or even more important, than pre-season games. Since practices are so important to Shanahan's process, I don't think the "5 quarters" thing accurately reflects how much or how well he did in the all-important practices.


Dude you just contradicted yourself. On the one hand you say that Purdy's interceptions in practice don't matter because he's trying **** out, but on the other hand you say that practice is sooo important to Shanahan. So which one is it?


Context is everything. Is Shanahan telling Purdy to try something that leads to an INT? Is Purdy able to explain why he threw the INT in a way that placates Shanahan?

And again, bottom line, Purdy and Lance are not on an even footing. Purdy is and should be ahead based on what they have both done on an NFL field.
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Re: The Trey Lance thread 

Post#572 » by CrimsonCrew » Thu Aug 24, 2023 7:35 pm

Big J wrote:
CrimsonCrew wrote:
Big J wrote:It just doesn’t make any sense that people say that when Brock throws picks in practice doesn’t matter, but every little error that Trey makes in practice is scrutinized to the nth degree. Brock is freaking tiny and doesn’t have any of the measurables that the elite guys in this league possess. He caps out as the second coming of Jimmy G. Whereas Trey could easily become a Mahomes or Watson level talent in a few years with his physical attributes.


I touched on this in my post right above, but of course it makes sense. Brock Purdy has proven himself IN LIVE NFL STARTS!!! As long as he looks more or less like the same guy, he's the QB. That makes sense.

Now look, if Trey had come out and completed 70+% of his passes in camp, had a 4-to-1 or better TD-to-INT rate, and dominated the preseason games from start to finish, then maybe you at least have a conversation. Lance didn't do that. And yes, there are tons of reasons for that. Everything I have ever heard about Lance is that he's an amazing person. And I feel really bad for him, in much the same way I felt really bad for Alex Smith. But at the end of the day, Trey can control what he puts on the field, and he didn't put anywhere near enough out there to challenge a guy with Brock's resume, limited as that is to date.


Purdy only proved that he could dump the ball off to Deebo, CMac, Kittle & Ayuk. Any game manager QB could look good throwing to those guys, hell Jimmy G was 1 play from winning a Super Bowl doing it, and that was with out McCaffrey. Someone like Lance could easily do that and also have the threat with his legs. It's only going to get harder and harder when the team is up against guys who can do both things and we're stuck with tiny ass unathletic Mr. Irrelevant Purdy.


And yet, McCaffrey aside (admittedly a big deal), Lance hasn't been able to do that.
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Re: The Trey Lance thread 

Post#573 » by Pattersonca65 » Thu Aug 24, 2023 7:43 pm

Big J wrote:
Pattersonca65 wrote:
Big J wrote:Doesn't make sense that Purdy is throwing pick after pick and not getting demoted yet Lance doesn't get a real shot at being starter despite how much more physical talent he has. Brock will be lucky to be as good as Jimmy G.

Picks in practice don't mean much. There is alot more to playing qb than physical talent. Lance had his own set of issues


Lance played 5 quarters. That’s not even a big enough sample size to know what his issues are.


Sample size doesn't mean anything. These issues date back to college and through his NFL tenure. It is fairly obvious as of now what Lance does well and what he does not do well. Whether he can improve on those weaknesses with experience is anyone's guess.
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Re: The Trey Lance thread 

Post#574 » by Pattersonca65 » Thu Aug 24, 2023 7:44 pm

Big J wrote:
CrimsonCrew wrote:
Big J wrote:It just doesn’t make any sense that people say that when Brock throws picks in practice doesn’t matter, but every little error that Trey makes in practice is scrutinized to the nth degree. Brock is freaking tiny and doesn’t have any of the measurables that the elite guys in this league possess. He caps out as the second coming of Jimmy G. Whereas Trey could easily become a Mahomes or Watson level talent in a few years with his physical attributes.


I touched on this in my post right above, but of course it makes sense. Brock Purdy has proven himself IN LIVE NFL STARTS!!! As long as he looks more or less like the same guy, he's the QB. That makes sense.

Now look, if Trey had come out and completed 70+% of his passes in camp, had a 4-to-1 or better TD-to-INT rate, and dominated the preseason games from start to finish, then maybe you at least have a conversation. Lance didn't do that. And yes, there are tons of reasons for that. Everything I have ever heard about Lance is that he's an amazing person. And I feel really bad for him, in much the same way I felt really bad for Alex Smith. But at the end of the day, Trey can control what he puts on the field, and he didn't put anywhere near enough out there to challenge a guy with Brock's resume, limited as that is to date.


Purdy only proved that he could dump the ball off to Deebo, CMac, Kittle & Ayuk. Any game manager QB could look good throwing to those guys, hell Jimmy G was 1 play from winning a Super Bowl doing it, and that was with out McCaffrey. Someone like Lance could easily do that and also have the threat with his legs. It's only going to get harder and harder when the team is up against guys who can do both things and we're stuck with tiny ass unathletic Mr. Irrelevant Purdy.


It is obvious you either have not watched all of Purdy's games or are cherry picking
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Re: The Trey Lance thread 

Post#575 » by Pattersonca65 » Thu Aug 24, 2023 7:46 pm

Big J wrote:
Samurai wrote:
Big J wrote:
Lance played 5 quarters. That’s not even a big enough sample size to know what his issues are.

Agree that picks in practice don't mean much. A number of players felt that Purdy made significant advances last season when he was playing the scout team QB in practices by giving the defenders a chance to make plays. They can't do that if the QB is playing scared and overly conservative. Plus by risking picks in practice it gave Purdy a better sense of what throws he can and can't make so that he could make smarter decisions when it counted.

The 5 quarters only refers to games. Shanahan said before that he views how a player does in practice to be just as important, or even more important, than pre-season games. Since practices are so important to Shanahan's process, I don't think the "5 quarters" thing accurately reflects how much or how well he did in the all-important practices.


Dude you just contradicted yourself. On the one hand you say that Purdy's interceptions in practice don't matter because he's trying **** out, but on the other hand you say that practice is sooo important to Shanahan. So which one is it?


Aaron Rodgers and Mahomes have both thrown a lot of picks in practice. There is reason why it is called practice
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Re: The Trey Lance thread 

Post#576 » by Pattersonca65 » Thu Aug 24, 2023 7:55 pm

CrimsonCrew wrote:I've been giving this a lot of thought, and have tried to be as equitable to all sides as I can be. I think the most likely scenario remains that Lance is still on the team for this season at least. And maybe he makes his way onto the field at some point, or at least challenges Darnold for the #2 job (it's unclear how much of a chance he'll have to do that). Personally, I want to see Trey playing as much as humanly possible.

Now, in terms of where things went wrong, I think arguably the biggest factor, and one that gets some press but not nearly as much as it should, was Lance's finger injury his rookie year. It derailed what was shaping up to be a possible battle between he and Garoppolo for the starting job. Reports coming out this season indicate that the injury had pretty profound impacts on Lance's already shaky mechanics, and affected him as he tried to assume the starter's role in his second year.

Due to the finger injury, Lance was frankly bad as a passer during last offseason. Because of that, when he got into the regular season, Shanahan didn't trust him as a thrower. So he did what probably seemed entirely logical as a coach: he focused on what Lance could still do effectively, and that was run the ball. And, of course, that directly or indirectly led to Lance's injury and missing an entire year during which he was supposed to be developing. And no one is to blame for that one. Lance hit his finger on a helmet, as QBs have done as long as football has existed, and it completely threw off his career arc. It was a fluke, an awful break (literally and figuratively), but it's the sort of thing that happens in this game. However, acknowledging the finger and setting it aside, we still have blown opportunities all over the place.

As far as the front office, I have disagreed with so many of their decisions surrounding Lance. First and foremost, they concluded they needed an elite QB to win in this league. Hurry!!! Absolutely the right decision. They also decided they wanted a guy on a rookie deal so they could surround him with talent. Again, that's great process. BUT, the benefit of the rookie contract is that it allows you to maintain talent and depth around that guy. If you trade three first-rounders and a third for the guy, you are severely inhibiting your ability to surround him with talent. Perhaps more importantly, you are likely depleting your own pool of stars so that, just as that guy starts making the big bucks, you're missing out of the cheap stars who could help you flesh out the roster.

I also hated that they traded up - and gave up so much to do so - months before the draft. When we learned years later that they did so WITHOUT A CLEAR TARGET, I was simply blown away. How do you make that move without having done like 90% of your homework and feeling to the core of your being that a difference-maker is there? It's inexcusable. I think there's also a very strong argument they could have moved up to 6, for instance, held onto one of the first-round picks, and still gotten Lance. Hell, we'll never know, but they might have been able to get Lance at 12.

Once they had the pick, they started to scout the guys in earnest. And I will never understand the thought process that led them to Lance. There was a lot to like about Lance in college. Natural leader. Big arm. Big, athletic, strong. He led a dominant program. But there were so many concerns, too. Tiny sample size, with just one full season on a run-heavy team. 318 pass attempts. Low level of competition. In Shanahan's KNBR interview yesterday, he talked about how well Lance had done running up the middle in college. I wanted to scream at the radio, "That was against tiny, FCS defenders!!! How many of those guys are even in the league at present?!?!"

Because of the lower level of competition Lance was facing, and the relative strength of NDSU, he may as well have been playing on Alabama for all the help he got from his supporting cast. He routinely had guys wide open. He didn't have to make tight window throws. He didn't have to see the field at anything close to an NFL level. Hell, he never even had to put together a game-winning drive. What should have been clear to the FO was that he struggled with accuracy. Despite the big arm, he was not very good throwing downfield. And he was arguably worse throwing in the short area, where his passes would just be bizarrely off at times. I watched a lot of his film and came away thinking he was a second-round talent.

Despite athletic similarities, Fields was clearly superior in every physical area - he's an inch shorter, but his arms are an inch longer. More accurate thrower, more explosive runner. And he had the experience against top-notch opponents that Lance was missing. I can't say what happened in the interview room, on the white board, etc., but just from scouting their games, Fields should have been well ahead of Lance. And I even had Jones ahead of him, given Lance's inaccuracy, though I was glad they took a shot on the upside of Lance given what they had given up.

Once Lance was on the team, I don't have a huge problem with them starting Garoppolo over him. Lance wasn't ready, and the finger injury compounded things. Garoppolo was the obvious choice at that point, and it paid off with a legit playoff run. But going into Lance's second year, watching him struggle with the finger injury, they handed him the starting job. Again, I don't have a fundamental problem with the plan to let Jimmy walk as he was way too expensive before the restructure to keep. But if that's the mentality, and you have concerns with Lance's throwing, why in the world did you plan to back him up with Nate Sudfeld? And sure, they added Purdy too, and to some points above, you do have to give them some credit for developing Purdy, but don't kid yourself that he was anything but a shock to them as much as the rest of the league. You don't pick someone dead last in the draft if you think they've got Purdy's 2022 performance in them.

So Lance as the shaky starter, backed up by Sudfeld was the plan going into the 2022 offseason. What a joke. Thank God it didn't shake out that way. Again, I think Kyle does bear some blame for the leg injury, but knowing what we now know about Lance's finger and how it affected its passing, it's hard for me to be all that critical.

Which brings us to this offseason. I have questioned the decision to bring Darnold into this team. He has tantalizing arm talent and athleticism (not elite there, but pretty darn good), but he just seems like one of those guys who doesn't have it. And those guys rarely change their stripes in my experience. They can to a degree. Alex Smith may be the best example I can think of, but he was never better than a solid QB (granted that's pretty great for a #2 guy). But Darnold has shown over and over that he is slow to process. He can't handle a pass rush.

We hear about Darnold's resurgent season in Carolina, but in his last NFL action, he went 5 of 15 for 43 yards (!!!!!) with two interceptions and two fumbles (neither lost) in a 10-7 win against a 7-10 team. The week before that, sure, he threw for 341 yards and three TDs, but he also threw an INT and fumbled three times (two lost) in losing to what was then a 7-8 team. Those were starts 54 and 55 in his career, and we think all this guy needs is a change of scenery? His QBR (not perfect, but better than passer rating IMO) was below 51 in four of six starts last year. He only won a single game in which he threw for more than 200 yards, and was 3-0 in games in which he threw for under 164 yards. We overpaid for mediocrity, and that's being generous in my view.

And then, despite Darnold's extensive experience, we had him split reps with our young and inexperienced QB who DESPERATELY needed as many as he could possibly get. Practice is an area where we should expect Darnold to do well relative to his career to date. He doesn't have to worry about getting hit. He's not going to fumble, which has been a huge issue for him. He can throw to his first read without being penalized as much because maybe the rookie receiver didn't run the right route or he's still familiarizing himself with the guys. And even then, reports - granted how much can we truly rely on those? - are that he and Lance are performing in a fairly similar way.

And look, Darnold flat out played better in the preseason games. Lance was AWFUL in the first one. But that is perhaps to be expected. He was reluctant to pull the trigger, wasn't trusting his eyes. And if that was it for him, then I get it. But it's his first live action in ages, he just hasn't played much, and he's terrified of making a mistake, which, ironically, leads to more mistakes. A rational person would at least give him two more preseason games to see how he responds. Instead, Shanahan has effectively come out and said he made up his mind after that game. And that's absurd. Because Lance did in fact bounce back in his second preseason game - admittedly after some significant early struggles. Meanwhile, Darnold looked pretty good. He threw the ball well. He had some tough breaks with INTs that weren't his fault killing drives. But he continued to show flashes of that inconsistent guy. Took a couple ugly sacks. Struggled to move the team down the field despite ample opportunities.

So now, as the head coach, Shanahan has basically decided to ignore Sam Darnold's first five seasons because he threw several nice balls in a preseason game, and not give Lance any chance to settle in and show some development - development which Darnold has basically never shown. And now he's going to give Darnold practice snaps ahead of Lance that Lance so desperately needs. It just...I have no words. Virtually nothing about it makes any sense whatsoever.

Having said all of that, Lance is not blameless in this, either. It's not his fault he was taken third overall, and that we sold the farm to get him. It's not his fault that he got hurt, although he did a weird half-slide on the play in which he was injured last year that appeared to contribute to the injury. But as said here and elsewhere, you can't expect unlimited chances in the NFL. Even when you're the third pick. He got a shot to compete this year, maybe not for the starting job, but certainly for the second spot. He was healthy. He had improved his mechanics. He needed to seize his opportunity, and he couldn't beat out Sam frickin' Darnold. I'm definitely not giving up on Trey Lance ever becoming a good NFL QB. But if you can't beat out Sam Darnold in year three, regardless of any other circumstances, it's a really bad look. Lance should have made this an easy decision for the FO. Instead, he did what he's always done with the Niners. Came out ice cold. Warmed up as things went along, but never truly humming the way you'd like to see. Ironically, the very last action we saw him in was probably the best he's ever played, and I personally would love to see more of him this week before a decision is made. But again, if Lance hasn't made that decision for the coach by now, he's got to own a solid chunk of that responsibility.

Overall, it's just a really sad and frustrating situation. The FO still has time to make us forget - or at least forgive - this debacle. But they need to seal the deal. And they've put a ton of pressure on themselves and Purdy to do it. I will say one thing for this FO: they have balls. Keeping Lance at #2 is the easier decision. It won't get second-guessed, even if he comes in and struggles. They are the antithesis of sunk cost around here. And overall that's probably a good thing. Let's just hope it's not another DJ Reed situation, but magnified a hundred fold.


This is a very detailed and well written writeup! I did not take his finger injury into account. I read something yesterdaya about Shanahan saying something like he knew Darnold was winning out about ten days ago during practices. That is something I would love to know. What is it that Darnold is specifically doing that Lance is not as good at?
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Re: The Trey Lance thread 

Post#577 » by CrimsonCrew » Thu Aug 24, 2023 8:22 pm

Steve Young nailed Darnold as #2 hours before it became official. Good listen.

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Re: The Trey Lance thread 

Post#578 » by Big J » Thu Aug 24, 2023 8:57 pm

CrimsonCrew wrote:
Big J wrote:
CrimsonCrew wrote:
I touched on this in my post right above, but of course it makes sense. Brock Purdy has proven himself IN LIVE NFL STARTS!!! As long as he looks more or less like the same guy, he's the QB. That makes sense.

Now look, if Trey had come out and completed 70+% of his passes in camp, had a 4-to-1 or better TD-to-INT rate, and dominated the preseason games from start to finish, then maybe you at least have a conversation. Lance didn't do that. And yes, there are tons of reasons for that. Everything I have ever heard about Lance is that he's an amazing person. And I feel really bad for him, in much the same way I felt really bad for Alex Smith. But at the end of the day, Trey can control what he puts on the field, and he didn't put anywhere near enough out there to challenge a guy with Brock's resume, limited as that is to date.


Purdy only proved that he could dump the ball off to Deebo, CMac, Kittle & Ayuk. Any game manager QB could look good throwing to those guys, hell Jimmy G was 1 play from winning a Super Bowl doing it, and that was with out McCaffrey. Someone like Lance could easily do that and also have the threat with his legs. It's only going to get harder and harder when the team is up against guys who can do both things and we're stuck with tiny ass unathletic Mr. Irrelevant Purdy.


And yet, McCaffrey aside (admittedly a big deal), Lance hasn't been able to do that.


Because he's played 5 **** quarters as a starter. The kid needs a long leash so that he can breathe. Just look at the guys physical tools. He's got prototypical star QB measurables, but he now needs experience in order to develop into one. Purdy looks nothing like a star QB in this league. He's closer to Case Keemun.
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Re: The Trey Lance thread 

Post#579 » by Pattersonca65 » Thu Aug 24, 2023 9:14 pm

Big J wrote:
CrimsonCrew wrote:
Big J wrote:
Purdy only proved that he could dump the ball off to Deebo, CMac, Kittle & Ayuk. Any game manager QB could look good throwing to those guys, hell Jimmy G was 1 play from winning a Super Bowl doing it, and that was with out McCaffrey. Someone like Lance could easily do that and also have the threat with his legs. It's only going to get harder and harder when the team is up against guys who can do both things and we're stuck with tiny ass unathletic Mr. Irrelevant Purdy.


And yet, McCaffrey aside (admittedly a big deal), Lance hasn't been able to do that.


Because he's played 5 **** quarters as a starter. The kid needs a long leash so that he can breathe. Just look at the guys physical tools. He's got prototypical star QB measurables, but he now needs experience in order to develop into one. Purdy looks nothing like a star QB in this league. He's closer to Case Keemun.


You focus too much on physical tools and measurables. The NFL QB graveyard is littered with physically gifted athletes that bombed in the NFL. All the physical tools in the world matter little if you can't read a defense or mentally process quickly on the field. Comparing Purdy to Case Keenum is frankly a joke. The fact is the Lance may never develop into one even with those tools and the 49ers aren't in a position to lose games hoping Lance figures it out. Purdy is a better QB than Lance at this point and can effectively execute Shanahan's offense.
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Re: The Trey Lance thread 

Post#580 » by CrimsonCrew » Thu Aug 24, 2023 9:20 pm

Big J wrote:
CrimsonCrew wrote:
Big J wrote:
Purdy only proved that he could dump the ball off to Deebo, CMac, Kittle & Ayuk. Any game manager QB could look good throwing to those guys, hell Jimmy G was 1 play from winning a Super Bowl doing it, and that was with out McCaffrey. Someone like Lance could easily do that and also have the threat with his legs. It's only going to get harder and harder when the team is up against guys who can do both things and we're stuck with tiny ass unathletic Mr. Irrelevant Purdy.


And yet, McCaffrey aside (admittedly a big deal), Lance hasn't been able to do that.


Because he's played 5 **** quarters as a starter. The kid needs a long leash so that he can breathe. Just look at the guys physical tools. He's got prototypical star QB measurables, but he now needs experience in order to develop into one. Purdy looks nothing like a star QB in this league. He's closer to Case Keemun.


So...Lance had two starts as a rookie, and played a half of a third game. It's still an extremely limited sample, but Lance has 15 quarters, 13 as a starter. In Purdy's first 13 quarters as a starter, he shredded a surging Dolphins team, he outdueled TB, and he went up to Seattle, so injured he could barely move, and beat them. The Niners scored 33 and 35 points in the first two.

Yes, Lance clearly has more physical talent than Purdy. So did Jamarcus Russell, Ryan Leaf, and a slew of other highly drafted (and not so highly drafted) busts. Hell, so does Sam Darnold. There's more to the game than physical tools. Purdy has shown he has the intangibles. Lance has not.

Another thing. For some reason, when we talk about physical ability, we talk about arm strength. Well isn't accuracy an ability? Arguably the most important physical ability for a QB? In that area, Purdy is markedly more physically capable than Lance. Mental processing is a physical ability, and Purdy is superior in that area as well.

Would I like to see Lance have more of an opportunity to show his intangibles? Absolutely. But Lance had a chance and did little with it. Purdy had a chance and he ran with it. He deserves to be the #1 QB. If he falters in live games this year, then maybe you reconsider. But you can't bench him for Trey unless Trey is damn near perfect. Because that's what Purdy was last year.

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